Edmunds Conducts a Full Test of the 2009 Acura TL
11-13-2008 | 01:17 AM
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Edmunds Conducts a Full Test of the 2009 Acura TL
The Sensible Person's Sporty Sedan
By Daniel Pund, Senior Editor, Detroit Email
Date posted: 11-12-2008
In preparing to write this full test of the new 2009 Acura TL, this writer was reminded by the powers-that-be that automotive styling is a subjective matter.
Indeed, continued the boss men, it would be helpful to no one to simply tee off on what is a truly lovely car in every way except the one judged by human eyes.
Besides, it was determined, no honor or lasting joy could be had by poking fun at a car that's an easier target for ridicule than a fat kid on a scooter. The last communication from the Home Office read, in part, "...your conscience (such as it is) will be your guide."
Right.
Not Silly-Looking
The bigger, longer, entirely new-looking 2009 Acura TL is one of the more sensible entry-luxury cars on the market. "Sensible" is encoded into Honda Motor Company DNA. One could rightfully claim that the 6-inch increase in length and the roughly 100-pound weight increase of this new TL compared to the one it replaces is not a historically Honda-like thing to do. But with a larger Acura TSX nipping at its heels and the super slow-selling Acura RL wasting away in the Size L segment, the TL had room to grow. It is now essentially identical in size to the RL, except that the "midsize" sedan is now 2 inches wider than the "large" sedan.
The upsizing yielded a slight increase in overall passenger volume (from 97.9 cubic feet to 98.2 cubic feet). But the bigger story is that essentially all of the extra room has been given to the rear-seat passengers — something Acura says owners of the current TL requested. There's an almost 1.5-inch increase in rear legroom compared to the '08 model and about an inch more hiproom. That might not sound like very much, but it's a meaningful improvement when you're the one stuck in the back.
Pretty Motor
To maintain the same level of performance as the well-liked outgoing model, Acura dropped a 3.5-liter V6 into the standard TL in place of the 3.2-liter of the '08 TL. You'll recognize the 3.5-liter from the outgoing TL Type-S. In this application, the 3.5-liter makes 280 horsepower at 6,200 rpm and 254 pound-feet of torque at 5,000 rpm. That's down 6 hp and 2 lb-ft from the Type-S. But this base engine (which burns premium fuel, by the way) represents a 22-hp increase over the old base engine.
That Acura managed its super-sizing — both in terms of engine displacement and dimensions — while maintaining the same EPA fuel economy numbers as the smaller, less powerful TL (18 mpg city/26 mpg highway) is no small feat, certainly considering that the car uses the same five-speed automatic transaxle as before.
In our testing, the '09 front-wheel-drive TL cranked off a 6.7-second run to 60 mph (6.4 seconds with 1 foot of rollout like at a drag strip). Because of its additional weight, the higher-performance, higher-horsepower all-wheel-drive TL SH-AWD model is no quicker and indeed returns identical numbers. These acceleration figures put the TL between the Lexus IS 250 (7.5 seconds to 60 mph even with a manual transmission) and the IS 350 (5.3 seconds to 60 mph). It's quicker than the new Audi A4 3.2 (6.9 seconds to 60 mph), but not as quick as a Mercedes-Benz C350 (around 6.0 seconds to 60 mph) or a Cadillac CTS with the direct-injection V6 (6.3 seconds to 60 mph). It is utterly annihilated by the Infiniti G37 sedan (5.4 seconds to 60 mph) and the BMW 335i (5.2 seconds to 60 mph).
At $39,445 with every possible convenience feature a sensible person could want and then a few more, the TL represents something of value in this class. Also, if lots of interior volume and a price tag at or below $40,000 are prerequisites, several of the TL's competitors won't make the cut.
Pretty Moves
The TL is categorically not a four-door sports car in the mold of the BMW 335i or the Infiniti G37. The Acura's 60/40-percent split in front-to-rear weight distribution sees to that. It is instead a vehicle with a broad range of talents — something, in other words, like a Honda.
Still, our early drive in the car on Southern California's indomitable expressway system had us believing that Acura had more or less given up on the sporty aspect of this model. It rides beautifully on its modified Accord platform; this is one benefit of the longer wheelbase. The suspension is tuned beautifully, returning quite good body control without suffering the freeway hop that's a by-product of Los Angeles' aging freeways. The ride is supple enough that we were almost prepared to forgive Acura for trading the car's handling moves in return for it.
A night run down Angeles Forest Highway convinced us that no such forgiveness was necessary. The big TL casually and confidently attempts to outrun its headlights. We did not keep up with the BMW 135i that was apparently being driven straight out of Hell. But then, we wouldn't have been able to match that lunatic even if we had been driving an identical 135i.
Our TL wore all-season, 17-inch (245/50R17) Michelin tires that delivered a middling 0.83g on the skid pad. For comparison, a TL SH-AWD with sticky 19-inch Michelin Pilot PS2s will generate 0.93g and a Infiniti G37 with 18-inch Bridgestone Potenzas posts 0.91g. But we tell you, when you're out driving on that dark, swaying ribbon in the mountains, ultimate grip is a less critical parameter than how progressively and smoothly those grip limits are revealed.
The TL responded beautifully to steering inputs (using an electrically boosted system, no less). It takes a set early in a corner and tracks faithfully through with little to no steering corrections. For its size, weight distribution and modest tires, the TL is a pretty remarkable handler. The five-speed automatic might be down a gear compared to many competitors' automatics, but it remains a faithful ally, snapping off clean shifts.
Our only quibble with the car's back road performance is its less-than-exceptional brakes. They're better in hard running than the 122-foot 60-mph-to-0 panic stop test figure indicates (the tires are a factor here), but they are the weakest link in the TL's dynamic performance.
We Got Yer Gadgets, Right Here
True to Acura form, the TL comes fully equipped, sort of. The standard TL comes in at $34,755 (including $760 destination charge). That'll get you heated, power-adjusted, leather-upholstered front seats with memory function as well as an eight-speaker, six-disc CD-changer stereo with satellite radio, Bluetooth, USB port and auxiliary input, steering-wheel-mounted controls for cruise and audio, moonroof, dual-zone climate control and more.
Acura insists on calling cars with its Technology package by a separate model name. This "model" costs $39,445. If you choose to refer to your TL as simply a TL with the $4,690 Technology package, Acura will hunt you down.
At any rate, the package comes with an upgraded stereo with 10 speakers, a 12.7-gig hard drive and a 440-watt amp and speed-sensitive volume control (which is, as ever, annoying). Also Acura's excellent navigation system with voice recognition comes with the package and is displayed on a lovely, high-resolution 8-inch screen. The Tech customer also gets keyless entry and push-button ignition, real-time traffic and traffic rerouting capability and radar weather maps with one- and three-day forecasts along with severe weather alerts. A rearview camera and chrome-accented door handles make the cut, too — chrome apparently being higher tech than painted material. And Acura throws in a GPS-linked, solar-sensing adaptive climate control system with humidity control. We're not sure we need quite this level of technology in our climate system, but we note that we were quite comfortable.
Broadly speaking, we were comfortable with the whole of the interior, even if it is, in places, as overstyled as the exterior. Even the bewildering mass of buttons and knobs on the center stack fairly quickly came to make sense to us. Once you realize that each function (climate control, navigation, audio, etc.) has its controls clustered in its own territory.
Still Not Silly-Looking
As ever, the 2009 Acura TL is a weird bird in the entry luxury segment. It's a large front-drive V6-powered sedan, similar in performance and price to the Nissan Maxima 3.5 SV. But Acura is the corporation's luxury or rather premium nameplate, putting it in de facto competition with the Infiniti G37. It's a brand that's never really been pitched as a full-on luxury brand competing with the Germans. Instead, it's operated (most successfully) as a sensible step up from the sensible Honda models. Despite the redesign for the TL, this positioning hasn't changed for 2009.
And the TL is an even weirder bird than the lovely outgoing model because it has a large metallic squid beak on the front of the car. Whoops. We mean a broken buck tooth. No. What we mean is that the TL looks like what Pontiac designers of five years ago thought the future would look like. Oh, forget it. The TL is a lovely car.
The manufacturer provided Edmunds this vehicle for the purposes of evaluation.
By Daniel Pund, Senior Editor, Detroit Email
Date posted: 11-12-2008
In preparing to write this full test of the new 2009 Acura TL, this writer was reminded by the powers-that-be that automotive styling is a subjective matter.
Indeed, continued the boss men, it would be helpful to no one to simply tee off on what is a truly lovely car in every way except the one judged by human eyes.
Besides, it was determined, no honor or lasting joy could be had by poking fun at a car that's an easier target for ridicule than a fat kid on a scooter. The last communication from the Home Office read, in part, "...your conscience (such as it is) will be your guide."
Right.
Not Silly-Looking
The bigger, longer, entirely new-looking 2009 Acura TL is one of the more sensible entry-luxury cars on the market. "Sensible" is encoded into Honda Motor Company DNA. One could rightfully claim that the 6-inch increase in length and the roughly 100-pound weight increase of this new TL compared to the one it replaces is not a historically Honda-like thing to do. But with a larger Acura TSX nipping at its heels and the super slow-selling Acura RL wasting away in the Size L segment, the TL had room to grow. It is now essentially identical in size to the RL, except that the "midsize" sedan is now 2 inches wider than the "large" sedan.
The upsizing yielded a slight increase in overall passenger volume (from 97.9 cubic feet to 98.2 cubic feet). But the bigger story is that essentially all of the extra room has been given to the rear-seat passengers — something Acura says owners of the current TL requested. There's an almost 1.5-inch increase in rear legroom compared to the '08 model and about an inch more hiproom. That might not sound like very much, but it's a meaningful improvement when you're the one stuck in the back.
Pretty Motor
To maintain the same level of performance as the well-liked outgoing model, Acura dropped a 3.5-liter V6 into the standard TL in place of the 3.2-liter of the '08 TL. You'll recognize the 3.5-liter from the outgoing TL Type-S. In this application, the 3.5-liter makes 280 horsepower at 6,200 rpm and 254 pound-feet of torque at 5,000 rpm. That's down 6 hp and 2 lb-ft from the Type-S. But this base engine (which burns premium fuel, by the way) represents a 22-hp increase over the old base engine.
That Acura managed its super-sizing — both in terms of engine displacement and dimensions — while maintaining the same EPA fuel economy numbers as the smaller, less powerful TL (18 mpg city/26 mpg highway) is no small feat, certainly considering that the car uses the same five-speed automatic transaxle as before.
In our testing, the '09 front-wheel-drive TL cranked off a 6.7-second run to 60 mph (6.4 seconds with 1 foot of rollout like at a drag strip). Because of its additional weight, the higher-performance, higher-horsepower all-wheel-drive TL SH-AWD model is no quicker and indeed returns identical numbers. These acceleration figures put the TL between the Lexus IS 250 (7.5 seconds to 60 mph even with a manual transmission) and the IS 350 (5.3 seconds to 60 mph). It's quicker than the new Audi A4 3.2 (6.9 seconds to 60 mph), but not as quick as a Mercedes-Benz C350 (around 6.0 seconds to 60 mph) or a Cadillac CTS with the direct-injection V6 (6.3 seconds to 60 mph). It is utterly annihilated by the Infiniti G37 sedan (5.4 seconds to 60 mph) and the BMW 335i (5.2 seconds to 60 mph).
At $39,445 with every possible convenience feature a sensible person could want and then a few more, the TL represents something of value in this class. Also, if lots of interior volume and a price tag at or below $40,000 are prerequisites, several of the TL's competitors won't make the cut.
Pretty Moves
The TL is categorically not a four-door sports car in the mold of the BMW 335i or the Infiniti G37. The Acura's 60/40-percent split in front-to-rear weight distribution sees to that. It is instead a vehicle with a broad range of talents — something, in other words, like a Honda.
Still, our early drive in the car on Southern California's indomitable expressway system had us believing that Acura had more or less given up on the sporty aspect of this model. It rides beautifully on its modified Accord platform; this is one benefit of the longer wheelbase. The suspension is tuned beautifully, returning quite good body control without suffering the freeway hop that's a by-product of Los Angeles' aging freeways. The ride is supple enough that we were almost prepared to forgive Acura for trading the car's handling moves in return for it.
A night run down Angeles Forest Highway convinced us that no such forgiveness was necessary. The big TL casually and confidently attempts to outrun its headlights. We did not keep up with the BMW 135i that was apparently being driven straight out of Hell. But then, we wouldn't have been able to match that lunatic even if we had been driving an identical 135i.
Our TL wore all-season, 17-inch (245/50R17) Michelin tires that delivered a middling 0.83g on the skid pad. For comparison, a TL SH-AWD with sticky 19-inch Michelin Pilot PS2s will generate 0.93g and a Infiniti G37 with 18-inch Bridgestone Potenzas posts 0.91g. But we tell you, when you're out driving on that dark, swaying ribbon in the mountains, ultimate grip is a less critical parameter than how progressively and smoothly those grip limits are revealed.
The TL responded beautifully to steering inputs (using an electrically boosted system, no less). It takes a set early in a corner and tracks faithfully through with little to no steering corrections. For its size, weight distribution and modest tires, the TL is a pretty remarkable handler. The five-speed automatic might be down a gear compared to many competitors' automatics, but it remains a faithful ally, snapping off clean shifts.
Our only quibble with the car's back road performance is its less-than-exceptional brakes. They're better in hard running than the 122-foot 60-mph-to-0 panic stop test figure indicates (the tires are a factor here), but they are the weakest link in the TL's dynamic performance.
We Got Yer Gadgets, Right Here
True to Acura form, the TL comes fully equipped, sort of. The standard TL comes in at $34,755 (including $760 destination charge). That'll get you heated, power-adjusted, leather-upholstered front seats with memory function as well as an eight-speaker, six-disc CD-changer stereo with satellite radio, Bluetooth, USB port and auxiliary input, steering-wheel-mounted controls for cruise and audio, moonroof, dual-zone climate control and more.
Acura insists on calling cars with its Technology package by a separate model name. This "model" costs $39,445. If you choose to refer to your TL as simply a TL with the $4,690 Technology package, Acura will hunt you down.
At any rate, the package comes with an upgraded stereo with 10 speakers, a 12.7-gig hard drive and a 440-watt amp and speed-sensitive volume control (which is, as ever, annoying). Also Acura's excellent navigation system with voice recognition comes with the package and is displayed on a lovely, high-resolution 8-inch screen. The Tech customer also gets keyless entry and push-button ignition, real-time traffic and traffic rerouting capability and radar weather maps with one- and three-day forecasts along with severe weather alerts. A rearview camera and chrome-accented door handles make the cut, too — chrome apparently being higher tech than painted material. And Acura throws in a GPS-linked, solar-sensing adaptive climate control system with humidity control. We're not sure we need quite this level of technology in our climate system, but we note that we were quite comfortable.
Broadly speaking, we were comfortable with the whole of the interior, even if it is, in places, as overstyled as the exterior. Even the bewildering mass of buttons and knobs on the center stack fairly quickly came to make sense to us. Once you realize that each function (climate control, navigation, audio, etc.) has its controls clustered in its own territory.
Still Not Silly-Looking
As ever, the 2009 Acura TL is a weird bird in the entry luxury segment. It's a large front-drive V6-powered sedan, similar in performance and price to the Nissan Maxima 3.5 SV. But Acura is the corporation's luxury or rather premium nameplate, putting it in de facto competition with the Infiniti G37. It's a brand that's never really been pitched as a full-on luxury brand competing with the Germans. Instead, it's operated (most successfully) as a sensible step up from the sensible Honda models. Despite the redesign for the TL, this positioning hasn't changed for 2009.
And the TL is an even weirder bird than the lovely outgoing model because it has a large metallic squid beak on the front of the car. Whoops. We mean a broken buck tooth. No. What we mean is that the TL looks like what Pontiac designers of five years ago thought the future would look like. Oh, forget it. The TL is a lovely car.
The manufacturer provided Edmunds this vehicle for the purposes of evaluation.
11-13-2008 | 01:45 AM
#2
Team Anthracite Webmaster
Joined: Mar 2004
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From: Los Angeles, CA (USC)
11-13-2008 | 02:01 AM
#3
Racer
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 397
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From: Mass
11-13-2008 | 02:39 AM
#4
You'll Never Walk Alone
iTrader: (1)
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 9,525
Likes: 848
From: Vancouver, BC, Canada
lol, Edmunds reviews are always good, just not their performance numbers...for example..while most others get around 14s flat for the Honda Accord V6 6MT in the 1/4 mile, Edmunds got 14.6 or 14.7s. That's quite a big difference. Same thing with the V6 Altima 6MT. Applying the same "theory" to their 14.9s time, I'd imagine other mags can get it in 14 - 14.5s.
11-13-2008 | 10:15 AM
#6
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,775
Likes: 2
From: Chicago suburb, IL
Good review, although I'm waiting for a few more from Motor Trend, Car & Driver and Road & Track. Acceleration #'s are always subject to many variables at time of testing....temp., oil viscosity, road conditions, driver skill, engine break-in condition, etc. Motor Trend and R&T seem to always post the fastest numbers in their testing.....e.g. R&T's lastest test of the '09 Audi A4 had it going 5.7 sec 0-60 (and Edmunds' numbers has it going a full 1.2 sec. slower). I agree with the grip on the SH-AWD.... .91G.....pretty amazing for a "luxury" car.
11-13-2008 | 01:58 PM
#7
16GS FSprt,03Max,12 335is
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 976
Likes: 7
From: Manhattan Beach, Ca / Dallas, Tx
Nice technical review, but on page 2 the editor dissed it a bit.
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do.../pageId=152942
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do.../pageId=152942
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11-13-2008 | 02:48 PM
#8
Advanced
Joined: Sep 2007
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Inside Line Executive Editor Michael Jordan says:
The Acura design studio opened in May 2007, a $15 million facility on the campus of American Honda in Torrance, California. We walked the floor, admiring the innovative layout of parallel lines for the development of styling bucks for interior and exterior treatments. Jon Ikeda, the studio manager, explained that the arrangement would foster closer cooperation between designers.
Trained at the Art Center College of Design, Ikeda had been at Honda long enough to have personally met Soichiro Honda, the wild man who turned his fascination for fast cars and adventurous women into a car company that understands the spirit of practical transportation like no other. Ikeda told us that this new design studio would make Acura independent of Honda at last, helping the division finally achieve the promise it showed when it became the first prestige division of any Japanese car company back in 1986. The trouble was, every concept and production car on the floor of the Acura design studio was ugly.
For years Acura has been a kind of me-too car company when it comes to style, chasing various European or Japanese rivals in some kind of twisted game of musical chairs until the music would stop and it would be forced to sit in the ugly chair. An Acura has looked like an Accord with body cladding, a Lexus, a lozenge, an imitation Italian sports car and an industrial tool. Unfortunately an Acura has never looked like itself, something Ikeda hopes to solve with a design language he calls Keen Edge Dynamic. It's an attempt to give a technological look a strong emotional impact.
It'll take some time for Ikeda's work to surface in production cars, but you have to say the cars like the new TL need to be rescued as soon as possible. The combination of flaccid character lines and a samurai belt buckle might have some currency in the Japanese design world, but there's no one we know who sees the new TL as anything other than a victim of style. We're in the business of driving cars, and we deeply enjoy the mechanical character a car expresses. But sometimes you have to admit that style counts, and especially so in premium devices like an automobile. And once you get past the endless jokes that have been made about the TL's appearance, you have to admit that the car simply doesn't look very good. It's a serious matter, and we worry about the TL's future in the prestige market as a consequence.
The Acura design studio opened in May 2007, a $15 million facility on the campus of American Honda in Torrance, California. We walked the floor, admiring the innovative layout of parallel lines for the development of styling bucks for interior and exterior treatments. Jon Ikeda, the studio manager, explained that the arrangement would foster closer cooperation between designers.
Trained at the Art Center College of Design, Ikeda had been at Honda long enough to have personally met Soichiro Honda, the wild man who turned his fascination for fast cars and adventurous women into a car company that understands the spirit of practical transportation like no other. Ikeda told us that this new design studio would make Acura independent of Honda at last, helping the division finally achieve the promise it showed when it became the first prestige division of any Japanese car company back in 1986. The trouble was, every concept and production car on the floor of the Acura design studio was ugly.
For years Acura has been a kind of me-too car company when it comes to style, chasing various European or Japanese rivals in some kind of twisted game of musical chairs until the music would stop and it would be forced to sit in the ugly chair. An Acura has looked like an Accord with body cladding, a Lexus, a lozenge, an imitation Italian sports car and an industrial tool. Unfortunately an Acura has never looked like itself, something Ikeda hopes to solve with a design language he calls Keen Edge Dynamic. It's an attempt to give a technological look a strong emotional impact.
It'll take some time for Ikeda's work to surface in production cars, but you have to say the cars like the new TL need to be rescued as soon as possible. The combination of flaccid character lines and a samurai belt buckle might have some currency in the Japanese design world, but there's no one we know who sees the new TL as anything other than a victim of style. We're in the business of driving cars, and we deeply enjoy the mechanical character a car expresses. But sometimes you have to admit that style counts, and especially so in premium devices like an automobile. And once you get past the endless jokes that have been made about the TL's appearance, you have to admit that the car simply doesn't look very good. It's a serious matter, and we worry about the TL's future in the prestige market as a consequence.
And I would agree that, in the entry lux segment, styling is everything and the last thing any automaker can ill afford is to have designs that are polarizing.
11-13-2008 | 03:32 PM
#9
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,775
Likes: 2
From: Chicago suburb, IL
I think the most troubling part of this statement was the editor's impressions during his visit to the Acura Design Studio in Torrance. If in fact, the new TL represents Acura's new design philosophy and styling direction, then Acura's in big trouble. I never cared too much for the '05-'08 RL because it was more on the bland side, but it was never polarizing or offensive. I remember hating the '09 RL redesign initially, but would prefer that to some aspects of the '09 TL. I don't think the '09 TL is ugly, except that bits and pieces just throw the whole overall design off. And I don't like the rear styling at all but that's just me.
And I would agree that, in the entry lux segment, styling is everything and the last thing any automaker can ill afford is to have designs that are polarizing.
And I would agree that, in the entry lux segment, styling is everything and the last thing any automaker can ill afford is to have designs that are polarizing.
Also, there was a thread posted here a week ago that said that while sales of Acura models are down, the newly designed TL is actually the only one who's sales are on the increase. Once again, the naysayers are wrong.
11-13-2008 | 05:33 PM
#10
Racer
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 397
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From: Mass
Everyone said the same thing about Chris Bangle and his affect on BMW's. The so-called "experts" thought Bangle would ruin and bankrupt BMW.....well guess what, over the last several years, BMW's profits actually went way up and the Bangle-designed 5 and 7 series in particular sold very well.....so well in fact that other carmakers like Mercedes, Toyota, and GM eventually copied various styling cues from the Bangle-designed BMW's.
Also, there was a thread posted here a week ago that said that while sales of Acura models are down, the newly designed TL is actually the only one who's sales are on the increase. Once again, the naysayers are wrong.
Also, there was a thread posted here a week ago that said that while sales of Acura models are down, the newly designed TL is actually the only one who's sales are on the increase. Once again, the naysayers are wrong.
11-13-2008 | 06:26 PM
#11
10th Gear
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 14
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For someone who just bought 2 brand new cars in as many weeks, Pete, why do you spend so much time on these boards trying to convince everyone how wonderful the car is? If you bought it and like it, congratulations. Drive safely. Why not go out and enjoy it instead of spending so much time trying to convince us it's the best thing since white bread (if it was, it wouldn't be that hard to make everyone believe it).
And if you honestly believe that the increase in TL sales last month was due to the new model, as opposed to the mega-clearance sales on the leftover models, then I'd like to sell you another TL.
And if you honestly believe that the increase in TL sales last month was due to the new model, as opposed to the mega-clearance sales on the leftover models, then I'd like to sell you another TL.
11-13-2008 | 06:52 PM
#12
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,775
Likes: 2
From: Chicago suburb, IL
For someone who just bought 2 brand new cars in as many weeks, Pete, why do you spend so much time on these boards trying to convince everyone how wonderful the car is? If you bought it and like it, congratulations. Drive safely. Why not go out and enjoy it instead of spending so much time trying to convince us it's the best thing since white bread (if it was, it wouldn't be that hard to make everyone believe it).
And if you honestly believe that the increase in TL sales last month was due to the new model, as opposed to the mega-clearance sales on the leftover models, then I'd like to sell you another TL.
And if you honestly believe that the increase in TL sales last month was due to the new model, as opposed to the mega-clearance sales on the leftover models, then I'd like to sell you another TL.
11-13-2008 | 07:02 PM
#13
For someone who just bought 2 brand new cars in as many weeks, Pete, why do you spend so much time on these boards trying to convince everyone how wonderful the car is? If you bought it and like it, congratulations. Drive safely. Why not go out and enjoy it instead of spending so much time trying to convince us it's the best thing since white bread (if it was, it wouldn't be that hard to make everyone believe it).
And if you honestly believe that the increase in TL sales last month was due to the new model, as opposed to the mega-clearance sales on the leftover models, then I'd like to sell you another TL.
And if you honestly believe that the increase in TL sales last month was due to the new model, as opposed to the mega-clearance sales on the leftover models, then I'd like to sell you another TL.
This thread is about the article. Nothing less nothing more. Let's keep it on topic.
11-13-2008 | 07:46 PM
#15
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,775
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From: Chicago suburb, IL
11-13-2008 | 07:52 PM
#16
CBP TLX
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 513
Likes: 44
From: Texas
Of course the 3g TL is quicker. It's a way smaller car. You really can't compare 3g TL vs 4g TL since they are so different in size. It's a RL sized car now with a curb wieght of 3,708 lb - 3,986 lb depending on configuration.
11-13-2008 | 08:02 PM
#17
For someone who just bought 2 brand new cars in as many weeks, Pete, why do you spend so much time on these boards trying to convince everyone how wonderful the car is? If you bought it and like it, congratulations. Drive safely. Why not go out and enjoy it instead of spending so much time trying to convince us it's the best thing since white bread (if it was, it wouldn't be that hard to make everyone believe it).
And if you honestly believe that the increase in TL sales last month was due to the new model, as opposed to the mega-clearance sales on the leftover models, then I'd like to sell you another TL.
And if you honestly believe that the increase in TL sales last month was due to the new model, as opposed to the mega-clearance sales on the leftover models, then I'd like to sell you another TL.
11-13-2008 | 08:12 PM
#18
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,775
Likes: 2
From: Chicago suburb, IL
Motor Trend's early estimates for the 4G TL and TL SH-AWD are around 5.5-5.8 sec 0-60....similar to the numbers put up by the Type-S. Until they do a full test on an actual production car, it's anybody's guess, but usually their numbers come pretty close to their estimates. Also, their test numbers usually come out much better than even what the manufacturer's claim.
11-13-2008 | 08:25 PM
#19
You'll Never Walk Alone
iTrader: (1)
Joined: Jun 2005
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From: Vancouver, BC, Canada
TL|GTX and CybrRdr, please reread post number 6 by Pete, pay close attention to this part,
"e.g. R&T's lastest test of the '09 Audi A4 had it going 5.7 sec 0-60 (and Edmunds' numbers has it going a full 1.2 sec. slower"
Pete made a little mistake, it's actually Car and Driver that got 5.7s (see below).
Here are the links if you are in doubt,
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...ticleId=126539
"At our test track, the A4 accelerates to 60 mph in 6.9 seconds (6.6 seconds with 1 foot of rollout like on a drag strip), and makes a quarter-mile pass in 15.0 seconds at 94.7 mph"
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...ttro_road_test
"The V-6 hustled our A4 3.2 Quattro test car from 0 to 60 mph in 5.7 seconds, which is an impressive number but absolutely astonishing compared with the 7.5-second time of the last-gen V-6 A4 we tested in October 2005. The previous quarter-mile time of 15.7 seconds at 100 mph improves by 1.4 seconds (14.3@100mph)."
The 4G TL on the other hand, according to Edmunds, can do 0-60mph in 6.7 seconds (6.4 seconds with 1 foot of rollout), and 1/4 mile in 14.9@95mph. Both of these times are better than the A4 3.2 Quattro tested by Edmunds. If we apply the same "changes" to the TL, seems like the 4G TL is capable of 0-60 in 5.5s, and 1/4 mile in 14.2@101mph. That's 3G TL-S 6MT territory. Of course, that was just some ricer math, but I'm just trying to prove how Edmunds numbers are different than numbers from other mags. Let's compare apples to apples, oranges to oranges, so let's compare C&D time vs C&D time, not C&D time (3G TL-S 6MT) vs Edmunds time (4G TL). That's unfair.
"e.g. R&T's lastest test of the '09 Audi A4 had it going 5.7 sec 0-60 (and Edmunds' numbers has it going a full 1.2 sec. slower"
Pete made a little mistake, it's actually Car and Driver that got 5.7s (see below).
Here are the links if you are in doubt,
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...ticleId=126539
"At our test track, the A4 accelerates to 60 mph in 6.9 seconds (6.6 seconds with 1 foot of rollout like on a drag strip), and makes a quarter-mile pass in 15.0 seconds at 94.7 mph"
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...ttro_road_test
"The V-6 hustled our A4 3.2 Quattro test car from 0 to 60 mph in 5.7 seconds, which is an impressive number but absolutely astonishing compared with the 7.5-second time of the last-gen V-6 A4 we tested in October 2005. The previous quarter-mile time of 15.7 seconds at 100 mph improves by 1.4 seconds (14.3@100mph)."
The 4G TL on the other hand, according to Edmunds, can do 0-60mph in 6.7 seconds (6.4 seconds with 1 foot of rollout), and 1/4 mile in 14.9@95mph. Both of these times are better than the A4 3.2 Quattro tested by Edmunds. If we apply the same "changes" to the TL, seems like the 4G TL is capable of 0-60 in 5.5s, and 1/4 mile in 14.2@101mph. That's 3G TL-S 6MT territory. Of course, that was just some ricer math, but I'm just trying to prove how Edmunds numbers are different than numbers from other mags. Let's compare apples to apples, oranges to oranges, so let's compare C&D time vs C&D time, not C&D time (3G TL-S 6MT) vs Edmunds time (4G TL). That's unfair.
11-13-2008 | 08:31 PM
#20
Racer
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 397
Likes: 1
From: Mass
Motor Trend's early estimates for the 4G TL and TL SH-AWD are around 5.5-5.8 sec 0-60....similar to the numbers put up by the Type-S. Until they do a full test on an actual production car, it's anybody's guess, but usually their numbers come pretty close to their estimates. Also, their test numbers usually come out much better than even what the manufacturer's claim.
I had the 3G TL and loved it, but it is not even close to the 4G when it comes to the interior materials quality, fit and finish (ext & int). It's much quieter, even my new 4G with 19" PS2's, it rides smoother than the 3G. So I'm going to let everyone flame here and get all wet in the armpits but this car hasn't even launched really. Especially with some many potential 4G TL buyers waiting to test the SH-AWD before they make a decision.
So in the end will it be faster than the 3G Type-S 6-MT? maybe not until next year when the 4G 6-MT comes. And I've been in the new 335 & G35/37's and yea they are perhaps a little faster in a straight line, and the G doesn't come close to the comfort/luxury the 4G has. If I wanted to be the fastest idiot racing from light to light I would have bought the BMW or G37. That was me over 10yrs ago,lol but now I'd rather more class, comfort, and design.
peace out and bring on the haters
11-13-2008 | 08:45 PM
#21
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,775
Likes: 2
From: Chicago suburb, IL
I agree with you Wavehogger. In my opinion, that's why the vast majority of new 4G owners picked this car.....more luxury, more room, more features, and more refinement. Yes, Acura put a little more power and handling capability (esp. in the AWD model) in there, too, but the 4G was, to me, never meant to be a racehorse like the 335i or Infiniti G.
That being said, I'm still impressed that Edmunds recorded the SH-AWD car pulling .93G on the skidpad......that's pure sports car territory!
That being said, I'm still impressed that Edmunds recorded the SH-AWD car pulling .93G on the skidpad......that's pure sports car territory!
11-13-2008 | 10:01 PM
#22
Racer
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 397
Likes: 1
From: Mass
[QUOTE=PetesTL;10185630]I agree with you Wavehogger. In my opinion, that's why the vast majority of new 4G owners picked this car.....more luxury, more room, more features, and more refinement. Yes, Acura put a little more power and handling capability (esp. in the AWD model) in there, too, but the 4G was, to me, never meant to be a racehorse like the 335i or Infiniti G.
That being said, I'm still impressed that Edmunds recorded the SH-AWD car pulling .93G on the skidpad......that's pure sports car territory![/QUOTE]
Well I only pushed my car on the test drive around one onramp hard, but I can vouch for it's grip with the 19's. It was crazy how it wouldn't break loose. Can't wait to play a little for the week or two i'll have the 19's on before I switch to the 17's. Of course it didn't hurt to have the rear outer tire slightly overdriving. Who thought of that..
That being said, I'm still impressed that Edmunds recorded the SH-AWD car pulling .93G on the skidpad......that's pure sports car territory![/QUOTE]
Well I only pushed my car on the test drive around one onramp hard, but I can vouch for it's grip with the 19's. It was crazy how it wouldn't break loose. Can't wait to play a little for the week or two i'll have the 19's on before I switch to the 17's. Of course it didn't hurt to have the rear outer tire slightly overdriving. Who thought of that..
11-13-2008 | 10:28 PM
#23
Cruisin'
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 18
Likes: 0
Wavehogger, lol, "the fastest idiot, racing from light to light", then why would you be concerned about the horsepower and the 0-60, test drove the base TL, and SH AWD, felt the same powerwise, Actually the G 37XS, is more comfortable, roomy, and much faster, and it doesn't matter since I was 16 I have raced light to light and in the long run, and I M 45, and feel the same, and will at 60 too. any car enthusiast that cares about horsepower, enjoys taking off at the light and lookin in the rearview mirror
11-13-2008 | 11:22 PM
#24
CBP TLX
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 513
Likes: 44
From: Texas
The 4G TL on the other hand, according to Edmunds, can do 0-60mph in 6.7 seconds (6.4 seconds with 1 foot of rollout), and 1/4 mile in 14.9@95mph. Both of these times are better than the A4 3.2 Quattro tested by Edmunds. If we apply the same "changes" to the TL, seems like the 4G TL is capable of 0-60 in 5.5s, and 1/4 mile in 14.2@101mph. That's 3G TL-S 6MT territory. Of course, that was just some ricer math, but I'm just trying to prove how Edmunds numbers are different than numbers from other mags. Let's compare apples to apples, oranges to oranges, so let's compare C&D time vs C&D time, not C&D time (3G TL-S 6MT) vs Edmunds time (4G TL). That's unfair.
11-13-2008 | 11:31 PM
#25
Racer
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 397
Likes: 1
From: Mass
Wavehogger, lol, "the fastest idiot, racing from light to light", then why would you be concerned about the horsepower and the 0-60, test drove the base TL, and SH AWD, felt the same powerwise, Actually the G 37XS, is more comfortable, roomy, and much faster, and it doesn't matter since I was 16 I have raced light to light and in the long run, and I M 45, and feel the same, and will at 60 too. any car enthusiast that cares about horsepower, enjoys taking off at the light and lookin in the rearview mirror
Now you are putting words in my mouth when you say 'i'm concerned' about HP & 0-60.. I was however defending what Pete said about how Edmunds only real performance specs review shouldn't be held as the gold standard yet. As for the G37xs, I respect your opinon but disagree. I've already seen/driven it. They have arrived. It's nice don't get me wrong, but rides rougher, has more road noise, hits pot holes harder, expansion joints harder and sort of feels like a rebadged Nissin to me.
Though I will say it's quick in a straight line, but can't handle nearly as well as the TL (.93g). And in case you were going to say it, the 4G TL is now so far from being a Honda or Accord. So if you see me on the road in my Mayan Bronze SH-AWD say hi, if you can catch me. Cause trust me, I still love to move out.
11-13-2008 | 11:39 PM
#26
Honda Fanboy
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,288
Likes: 17
From: So Cal
Wavehogger, lol, "the fastest idiot, racing from light to light", then why would you be concerned about the horsepower and the 0-60, test drove the base TL, and SH AWD, felt the same powerwise, Actually the G 37XS, is more comfortable, roomy, and much faster, and it doesn't matter since I was 16 I have raced light to light and in the long run, and I M 45, and feel the same, and will at 60 too. any car enthusiast that cares about horsepower, enjoys taking off at the light and lookin in the rearview mirror
The G35XS is NOT more comfortable and roomy than the TL. The TL SH-AWD also destroys a G35S on the track. The G35 has always been known for having good performance but lacks the refinement and comfort that most other luxury cars, including the TL, have. If all you are worried about is 0-60 then you should be driving a Camaro. Get your facts straight before you come here with your nonsense rambling.
Last edited by VTEC Racer; 11-13-2008 at 11:42 PM.
11-13-2008 | 11:44 PM
#27
Honda Fanboy
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,288
Likes: 17
From: So Cal
For someone who just bought 2 brand new cars in as many weeks, Pete, why do you spend so much time on these boards trying to convince everyone how wonderful the car is? If you bought it and like it, congratulations. Drive safely. Why not go out and enjoy it instead of spending so much time trying to convince us it's the best thing since white bread (if it was, it wouldn't be that hard to make everyone believe it).
And if you honestly believe that the increase in TL sales last month was due to the new model, as opposed to the mega-clearance sales on the leftover models, then I'd like to sell you another TL.
And if you honestly believe that the increase in TL sales last month was due to the new model, as opposed to the mega-clearance sales on the leftover models, then I'd like to sell you another TL.
11-14-2008 | 02:20 AM
#28
You'll Never Walk Alone
iTrader: (1)
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 9,525
Likes: 848
From: Vancouver, BC, Canada
I'm just saying that Acura went in a different direction with the 4g TL. It's much larger and more focused on luxury. I don't think that the A4, 3-series, or even the G37 are in the same category with this car since the 4G TL is much larger. I'm sure the 4g TL is capable but you really shouldn't compare the 4g TL to smaller cars.
I guess there are many ways people can compare cars.
11-14-2008 | 06:27 AM
#29
Suzuka Master
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,674
Likes: 2,600
From: Raleigh, NC - USA
Edmond's is most likely a more realistic time compared to what you would get on the street in your own car.
IIRC it was C&D that had an article of how they get their times (there is a bragging rights thing among the magazines) and you would never drive or abuse your car that way even at the track. It involves either side stepping the clutch or power braking an auto & so on.
One of the mags said the 5mph rolling start (always slower) which it published in addition to the standing start numbers was a more accurate number to compare to.
This is one of the reasons no one here can generally match the magazine times at the track without some general modifications.
IIRC it was C&D that had an article of how they get their times (there is a bragging rights thing among the magazines) and you would never drive or abuse your car that way even at the track. It involves either side stepping the clutch or power braking an auto & so on.
One of the mags said the 5mph rolling start (always slower) which it published in addition to the standing start numbers was a more accurate number to compare to.
This is one of the reasons no one here can generally match the magazine times at the track without some general modifications.
11-14-2008 | 08:46 AM
#30
Racer
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 397
Likes: 1
From: Mass
Edmond's is most likely a more realistic time compared to what you would get on the street in your own car.
IIRC it was C&D that had an article of how they get their times (there is a bragging rights thing among the magazines) and you would never drive or abuse your car that way even at the track. It involves either side stepping the clutch or power braking an auto & so on.
One of the mags said the 5mph rolling start (always slower) which it published in addition to the standing start numbers was a more accurate number to compare to.
This is one of the reasons no one here can generally match the magazine times at the track without some general modifications.
IIRC it was C&D that had an article of how they get their times (there is a bragging rights thing among the magazines) and you would never drive or abuse your car that way even at the track. It involves either side stepping the clutch or power braking an auto & so on.
One of the mags said the 5mph rolling start (always slower) which it published in addition to the standing start numbers was a more accurate number to compare to.
This is one of the reasons no one here can generally match the magazine times at the track without some general modifications.
I'm not sure how many cars you've taken to the track Bear and run 1/4 mile times, but I have with about a dozen (including driving my friends cars). I've found that typically if you take the averages of the automotive journalists 0-60 & 1/4mile times, they come out about 99% accurate. But about half the time I've been able to beat those 'reported' magazine times without any mods. And it does not take abuse per say, and yes I've read on how some are hard on the cars, but let's face it, if you're trying to get the best times you can't be all girly about it. Torque breaking (loading) is common in an Auto box to get a quick launch, not doing it would be like launching a manual at 600 RPM and dogging it off the line. In the end will the TL be a sub 6 sec 0-60 car, I doubt it, more 6.0-6.5, it's heavy and with the computer nannies holding back some of the torque, as to protect the knuckles etc.. and i agree with you, a rolling start will probably be the fastest.
11-14-2008 | 12:05 PM
#31
Suzuka Master
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,674
Likes: 2,600
From: Raleigh, NC - USA
Ok i'd like to nicely chime in here. I'm not sure how many cars you've taken to the track Bear and run 1/4 mile times, but I have with about a dozen (including driving my friends cars). I've found that typically if you take the averages of the automotive journalists 0-60 & 1/4mile times, they come out about 99% accurate. But about half the time I've been able to beat those 'reported' magazine times without any mods. And it does not take abuse per say, and yes I've read on how some are hard on the cars, but let's face it, if you're trying to get the best times you can't be all girly about it. Torque breaking (loading) is common in an Auto box to get a quick launch, not doing it would be like launching a manual at 600 RPM and dogging it off the line. In the end will the TL be a sub 6 sec 0-60 car, I doubt it, more 6.0-6.5, it's heavy and with the computer nannies holding back some of the torque, as to protect the knuckles etc.. and i agree with you, a rolling start will probably be the fastest.
I'm not sure how many cars you've taken to the track Bear and run 1/4 mile times, but I have with about a dozen (including driving my friends cars). I've found that typically if you take the averages of the automotive journalists 0-60 & 1/4mile times, they come out about 99% accurate. But about half the time I've been able to beat those 'reported' magazine times without any mods. And it does not take abuse per say, and yes I've read on how some are hard on the cars, but let's face it, if you're trying to get the best times you can't be all girly about it. Torque breaking (loading) is common in an Auto box to get a quick launch, not doing it would be like launching a manual at 600 RPM and dogging it off the line. In the end will the TL be a sub 6 sec 0-60 car, I doubt it, more 6.0-6.5, it's heavy and with the computer nannies holding back some of the torque, as to protect the knuckles etc.. and i agree with you, a rolling start will probably be the fastest.A quick look at Drag Times shows pure stock 2004/2008 TL/TLS , no spacers, CAI, exhaust mods, etc running between 14.5/99 & 14.7/94. All those below 14.5 have modifications of some type except for one Aspec 6MT that is listed at 14.3/99.
IIRC all the magazines posted better times then these.
A number of guys here also were disappointed to run at 14.5+ when they went to the track with an unmodified car. That being said there is nothing wrong with a family car doing 14.5.
On the rolling start (street start) read again; they are slower to 60 then the standing start because the engine is not revved up before the throttle is pushed.
11-14-2008 | 12:45 PM
#32
Racer
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 397
Likes: 1
From: Mass
I drove my first NHRA race in 1960 & qualified for my competition license at Englishtown NJ Raceway Park in 1965 in front engine gas dragster owned by Pete McEwen (not Tom the Mongoose) of Union Beach, NJ.
A quick look at Drag Times shows pure stock 2004/2008 TL/TLS , no spacers, CAI, exhaust mods, etc running between 14.5/99 & 14.7/94. All those below 14.5 have modifications of some type except for one Aspec 6MT that is listed at 14.3/99.
IIRC all the magazines posted better times then these.
A number of guys here also were disappointed to run at 14.5+ when they went to the track with an unmodified car. That being said there is nothing wrong with a family car doing 14.5.
On the rolling start (street start) read again; they are slower to 60 then the standing start because the engine is not revved up before the throttle is pushed.
A quick look at Drag Times shows pure stock 2004/2008 TL/TLS , no spacers, CAI, exhaust mods, etc running between 14.5/99 & 14.7/94. All those below 14.5 have modifications of some type except for one Aspec 6MT that is listed at 14.3/99.
IIRC all the magazines posted better times then these.
A number of guys here also were disappointed to run at 14.5+ when they went to the track with an unmodified car. That being said there is nothing wrong with a family car doing 14.5.
On the rolling start (street start) read again; they are slower to 60 then the standing start because the engine is not revved up before the throttle is pushed.
glad to hear you about the experience. Well I hear what you're saying about the 3G TL stock times. But I looked and there aren't many stock TL's on that list, not enough to make any concrete statements. I will give one personal example though. I had a 350Z a few yrs back and stock I had an average time of 14.1 @ 101 mph. That's exactly what R&T has on their data panel. I don't have time to look up more of my own now but I think we can agree to disagree here. In the end I bet the SH-AWD will be even with or slightly faster than the 3G not as fast as the 6MT, Type-S, 14.3 @ 99mph that R&T had for their test. Oh and I'm good at doing a rolling (torqued) start.. hehe But I know that isn't their standard method.
11-14-2008 | 01:23 PM
#33
Instructor
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 239
Likes: 23
From: Chicago Area
Car ran 6.7 seconds, someone is going to have to shave close to a second from that time, not possible.
The TL is no longer a sports sedan and is far from class leading in the area of performance, disappointing but true.
It's still a nice car if you can live with the beak.
That's why I'm glad I have an 08 TL and my next car might be something other than Acura unfortunately.
The G37 has become much more appealing now that I've seen this new TL.
11-14-2008 | 01:37 PM
#34
Instructor
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 239
Likes: 23
From: Chicago Area
Everyone said the same thing about Chris Bangle and his affect on BMW's. The so-called "experts" thought Bangle would ruin and bankrupt BMW.....well guess what, over the last several years, BMW's profits actually went way up and the Bangle-designed 5 and 7 series in particular sold very well.....so well in fact that other carmakers like Mercedes, Toyota, and GM eventually copied various styling cues from the Bangle-designed BMW's.
Also, there was a thread posted here a week ago that said that while sales of Acura models are down, the newly designed TL is actually the only one who's sales are on the increase. Once again, the naysayers are wrong.
Also, there was a thread posted here a week ago that said that while sales of Acura models are down, the newly designed TL is actually the only one who's sales are on the increase. Once again, the naysayers are wrong.
Don't compare BMW with the new TL, I'd rather driver the BMW any day of the week and I love Acura models but this new TL looks rediculous, look at your avtar and tell me the front end of this car looks good, it doesn't.
To those who like it great, I just can't get over the design I guess.
11-14-2008 | 02:12 PM
#35
Racer
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 397
Likes: 1
From: Mass
No way we will see sub 6 second numbers in the AWD, regardless of who drives it.
Car ran 6.7 seconds, someone is going to have to shave close to a second from that time, not possible.
The TL is no longer a sports sedan and is far from class leading in the area of performance, disappointing but true.
It's still a nice car if you can live with the beak.
That's why I'm glad I have an 08 TL and my next car might be something other than Acura unfortunately.
The G37 has become much more appealing now that I've seen this new TL.
Car ran 6.7 seconds, someone is going to have to shave close to a second from that time, not possible.
The TL is no longer a sports sedan and is far from class leading in the area of performance, disappointing but true.
It's still a nice car if you can live with the beak.
That's why I'm glad I have an 08 TL and my next car might be something other than Acura unfortunately.
The G37 has become much more appealing now that I've seen this new TL.
11-14-2008 | 02:37 PM
#36
Instructor
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 239
Likes: 23
From: Chicago Area
Because of its additional weight, the higher-performance, higher-horsepower all-wheel-drive TL SH-AWD model is no quicker and indeed returns identical numbers.
The above is a quote from the article, I know I can't read but it seems pretty clear that they did test the AWD SH is it indeed returned indentical numbers.
They didn't guess or they would have stated that, just had to point that out.
Call me a 4G hater if you'd like, I'm just disappointed I guess, not with the perfromance as much as the looks.
I guarantee you Acura will atler the design of the current model before it's alll said and done.
The above is a quote from the article, I know I can't read but it seems pretty clear that they did test the AWD SH is it indeed returned indentical numbers.
They didn't guess or they would have stated that, just had to point that out.
Call me a 4G hater if you'd like, I'm just disappointed I guess, not with the perfromance as much as the looks.
I guarantee you Acura will atler the design of the current model before it's alll said and done.
11-14-2008 | 03:03 PM
#37
Racer
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 397
Likes: 1
From: Mass
Because of its additional weight, the higher-performance, higher-horsepower all-wheel-drive TL SH-AWD model is no quicker and indeed returns identical numbers.
The above is a quote from the article, I know I can't read but it seems pretty clear that they did test the AWD SH is it indeed returned indentical numbers.
They didn't guess or they would have stated that, just had to point that out.
Call me a 4G hater if you'd like, I'm just disappointed I guess, not with the perfromance as much as the looks.
I guarantee you Acura will atler the design of the current model before it's alll said and done.
The above is a quote from the article, I know I can't read but it seems pretty clear that they did test the AWD SH is it indeed returned indentical numbers.
They didn't guess or they would have stated that, just had to point that out.
Call me a 4G hater if you'd like, I'm just disappointed I guess, not with the perfromance as much as the looks.
I guarantee you Acura will atler the design of the current model before it's alll said and done.
11-14-2008 | 03:34 PM
#38
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,775
Likes: 2
From: Chicago suburb, IL
No way we will see sub 6 second numbers in the AWD, regardless of who drives it.
Car ran 6.7 seconds, someone is going to have to shave close to a second from that time, not possible.
The TL is no longer a sports sedan and is far from class leading in the area of performance, disappointing but true.
It's still a nice car if you can live with the beak.
That's why I'm glad I have an 08 TL and my next car might be something other than Acura unfortunately.
The G37 has become much more appealing now that I've seen this new TL.
Car ran 6.7 seconds, someone is going to have to shave close to a second from that time, not possible.
The TL is no longer a sports sedan and is far from class leading in the area of performance, disappointing but true.
It's still a nice car if you can live with the beak.
That's why I'm glad I have an 08 TL and my next car might be something other than Acura unfortunately.
The G37 has become much more appealing now that I've seen this new TL.
Last edited by PetesTL; 11-14-2008 at 03:38 PM.
11-14-2008 | 05:45 PM
#39
Cruisin'
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 18
Likes: 0
Maybe when the Camaro comes out, i'll test drive it. I wasn't only talking about running light to light, i was talkin about taking off, and seeing the pack get smaller and smaller as I drive away on the expressway. Anyway, It has been Raining here in Philly for the last few days, and the leaves are all over, so I took a shortcut on the way home yesterday through a place called Fairmount Park (winding, curvy, uphill, downhill roads), so I punched the "G" all the way through the road and it held great, no slipping, no handling problems, stopped at Stop Sign and turned right (or punched it) into a leaf covered road without any problems, To be fair when I test drove the SH AWD last week, it was wet out but no slippery leafy road, and it held its own, maybe its me but, the G feels way more powerful, its more roomy, and i'll give you the ride on the TL, but thats only on older roads, newer paved roads are like riding on air. I know you are saying "Why Are You On this Site", but i been reading this site everyday since Late September, I Was interested in The G37, and when it didnt come out, I started lookin at the TL, and was one of the few at first who actually thought the car looked nice, I test drove the base tl and liked it, then while waiting for the AWD TL, which still isnt for sale here, only for Test Drive, I Really Didnt notice much difference, so when the G37 arrived, I decided to jump on it, HEY, some people like vanilla and some Chocolate, you all have to admit the looks are better, and i think the performance is better, and I just wanted to share because I took exception to being called a light to light idiot, I like speed and the G wins over the TL, and I cannot wait to be at the light with a TL SH AWD next to me, hopefully he is an idiot like me, and we will see what happens, PLUS (and I know I am Rambling on here) but I am one of many who beleive and after owning a 2003 Maxima, a 2005 Altima SER, a 2005 G35, and now a 2009 G37, I believe that Nissan underestimates their PONIES
11-14-2008 | 09:20 PM
#40
You'll Never Walk Alone
iTrader: (1)
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 9,525
Likes: 848
From: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Sonor Kid 2, I think you really should read the whole thread, as Pete and I already made a few posts regarding Edmunds performance numbers vs others. For example, like Pete just said, Edmunds got 6.9s and 15@94mph for the 09 Audi A4 3.2 Quattro, while Car and Driver got 5.7s and 14.3@100mph for the same car. The TL has come out for only 2 months or so, of course you don't see a lot of them. The G35 has come out for 2 years now (almost), and it's still a rare sight (in Vancouver).
Nissan used to overestimate their hp figures for some of their cars. Sentra SE-R, for example, was rated at 180hp, and later changed to 175hp.
http://www.sportcompactcarweb.com/ro...e_r/index.html
In fact, 175hp is still too high as the car only dynoed at 141whp. While the Integra GS-R dynoed at 150whp, with a claimed hp of 170hp. So the Honda claimed 5 less hp, but made 9 extra whp.
Perhaps that's why Nissan is being a little bit more careful with their hp estimation/calculation. And it seems like a lot of cars are underrated now, namely 335i (275whp, 300 claimed hp), IS350 (272whp, 306 claimed hp), Accord V6 6MT (240whp, 268 claimed hp) and 3g TL-S 6MT (253whp, 286 claimed hp).
Nissan used to overestimate their hp figures for some of their cars. Sentra SE-R, for example, was rated at 180hp, and later changed to 175hp.
http://www.sportcompactcarweb.com/ro...e_r/index.html
In fact, 175hp is still too high as the car only dynoed at 141whp. While the Integra GS-R dynoed at 150whp, with a claimed hp of 170hp. So the Honda claimed 5 less hp, but made 9 extra whp.
Perhaps that's why Nissan is being a little bit more careful with their hp estimation/calculation. And it seems like a lot of cars are underrated now, namely 335i (275whp, 300 claimed hp), IS350 (272whp, 306 claimed hp), Accord V6 6MT (240whp, 268 claimed hp) and 3g TL-S 6MT (253whp, 286 claimed hp).