Will Y.

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-f...09,print.story for the rest of the story.

It's a very positive review.

My 3G lease is expiring, so I'll go see the 4G in hopes that it is less ugly than its photos. However, the TL's increased size & weight really is pushing me towards another make/model.

smsTL

iTrader: (1)

If the car is not for you then you should jump ship

kobi2002

Since lexus is doing bad they offered me a 08 gs350 mark levison for 44k and giving me 25500 for my tl-s. I drove the new tl and it does not blow me away like the lex does. The features are mind blowing. i was really hoping acura would push the envelop.I will admit the new tl looks good to menow but not for 43 for the awd when for a few thousands more i could get the gs with way more stuff and a nicer ride. Thats what I'm pondering right now

PetesTL

Just curious, what's so "mind-blowing" about the features of the GS350? I test drove a GS earlier in the year and wasn't impressed by it at all. It is a decent luxury car, but, for the price, there's nothing exceptional about it. The design, to me, is also pretty boring.

sekitori

When it comes to technical aspects, it's quite a positive review. I doubt if anyone is this newsgroup ever doubted that the '09 TL is an extremely well made and technically advanced automobile. The main complaints about it have concerned its styling and large increase in size. This is what Neil has to say about the not-so-positive aspects of the TL:

My reservations have to do with the way the rest of this machine feels, the whole mikva, if you will.

For starters, this is a much bigger car than it used to be, a full 6 inches longer over a wheelbase stretched 1.4 inches. The TL SH-AWD -- schwaddd? -- is nearly 2 tons, about 300 pounds heavier than the previous car. So it's a big car, a Japanese Cadillac CTS, and it feels less lively than before. In fact, the power-to-weight ratio was better in the old car. The foil has become a saber.

Second of all, the TL is buried up to its nose in the kind of hyperfocused refinement for which Acura is known. Is that a good thing in a sports sedan? The engine has the emotional timbre of a Pentium 4 processor, whirring silkily in the ample bosom of its electric motor mounts. The redesigned chassis and body structure is quieter than Ted Stevens' campaign headquarters.

All that honeyed refinement tends to smother the sportiness. Does this car want to be luxo or not?

And then there's the car's astonishing bucktoothed visage, like a very large anime robot beaver. Hah! I shall pound you flat with my electro-tail! Bliss!

"Honeyed refinement"? "Japanese Cadillac CTS"? "Astonishing bucktoothed visage"? "Very large anime robot beaver"? While Neil finds the technical aspects of the car to be very positive, those words sound pretty negative to me.

AsianRage

They've certainly refined the GUI for the NAV since the new MDX. And the car do look good in the video.

AsianRage

Umm, "bucktoothed visage" and "...robot beaver" are the ONLY negative aspect of the review.
The 2G CTS is now a very respectable car in term of performance and luxury. Honeyed refinement only sounds bad if you don't like honey-anything.

kobi2002

Your really asking?
First the build quality on the lex is better.The dealerships are top notch and customer service is second to none in my book. As far as the price, They are giving it for 44k which is 9k off the sticker. As far as features where do I start? Mark levison is a great sound system that plays dvd video on the nav screen. Park assist, radar cruise control, ac seats, better leathers, adaptive headlights with autolevel, washers for the headlights, all auto for the windows, 3 presets for the seats, Bigger brakes, better bluetooth and able to dial from the nav screen and more control over mp3 on cd's. I can go more with the list if youlike. The only thing to methat sticks out on the tl is the fact that its now sh-awd. i used to own 2 evo's so the performance in any of these cars are going to lack in my book. You have your opinion on why you have your tl. I just feel that honda slipped alittle and I will give my money to somone else till they give me something that exicites me agian. i've been A honda man since 91. I do have to say that the tl did grow on me and it looks alot better, just not enough for me to buy it. So me getting a gs350 for 44k is a great deal and I may go to the dark side

AsianRage

Regarding the bolded items..
I've used both system and they're not any better than Acura's. With Lexus, Nav controls and most functions are disabled while you're using the car, which is extremely lame. Voice dial recognition is iffy half the time you're driving. Bluetooth is on par and I'm always in the good areas.

But that's my experience.

Anyway, if you can get (now) the GS350 (w/ AWD?) with the Mark Levinson system for only 44K, that's not a great deal. But if that's the AWD version then go for it.

kobi2002

I live in florida so awd is not really a must have. as far as the nav, I can say that the acura nav is better I will admit. The bluetooth is abled to dial on the nav screen which is a plus. You do get locked out with somethings on the gs whilein motion. But Ive seen all my friends bypass all the lockouts including playing dvds in motion. But the awd would be 1500 more if that is what I went for.

kobi2002

And getting 9k off the sticker sucks?

PetesTL

I use to have a '07 Lexus IS 350 w/Mark Levinson (sold to my sister last year). The Mark Levinson is a great system, but to me, the ELS on my 4G is just as nice (esp. w/DVD-A discs which the Lexus can't play) . The current NAV on the Acura's is the best available out of all the brands in my opinion....you can control it while driving and the hi-res screen beats anything you find on a Lexus. Also, the NAV incorporates live Doppler radar and weather reports and has Zagat restaurant ratings and reviews (not available in Lexus). The voice command is also the most sophisticated on any car. Acura's also has HDD for ripping songs off the discs (which the Lexus does not). Sure, Lexus has some options here and there which you can't get on the TL, but you pay extra for those. In the end, though, the GS doesn't really compete with the TL.......the price and content puts it square up against the RL.

kobi2002

Everyone has their opinion. You lovethe new tl,you go for it. I'm just stating what i can get for a new gs which I think is better than the new tl. my opinion. That radar for the wheather just like the traffic on hte tl is worthless ( IMO). We can have a pissing contest of who has what. But what doesnot change is the fact that most lexus dealers treat you like kings which most acura dealers could give a shit about you. I just went in to fix both driver and passenger window regulators on my tl-s. I had 4 tl's and all of them had to go in for window regulators. They treated me like I owed them somthing. But whatever. This newtl does nothing for me. And after almost 20 years of being a honda fanboi, this tl and other things honda does is changing that for me. Imo

PetesTL

Why is Nav traffic worthless? I can get instant reports about congestion, accidents, and road construction and take alternate routes if necessary....saving me a TON of agravation and time on my way to work every morning. The weather reports and radar, although not as useful as Nav traffic, gives me instant data about the weather and any alerts....very useful in an area like Chicago where the weather here is so unpredictable. Also, don't make generalizations about dealerships.......every brand has dealerships which are good and bad. When I had my IS 350, my service dealer treated me very cold and the people there were just snobs. My Acura dealer on the otherhand, is very friendly and their customer waiting room has computers with free internet access, free sandwhiches and soft drinks, and they give me a free car to use for ANY time I'm in for service. Go ahead and jump ship......why the need to announce it here? Just because you've been a Honda "fanboy" for X number of years doesn't mean they owe you anything.

AsianRage

Cause that's how much it's going for around here. And with the current financial situation, and everyone not buying cars as much as before, only 44K OTD would be a fine deal.

sekitori

In another another negative comment, Neil stated that the TL had grown considerably larger and heavier and feels less lively than before. As for "honeyed refinement", it sounds bad if you want the ride of a sports sedan and as he says, that refinement smothers the sportiness.

No matter how outstanding an automobile may be in all other respects, if enough people agree with Neil that it's too large, has an "astonishing bucktoothed visage" and looks like an "anime robot beaver", those perceptions alone can be enough to kill off much potential interest.

PetesTL

If everyone listened to critics, nobody would be buying cars these days. I think the average American is smart enough to form his/her opinion.

kobi2002

I livein the miami area that traffic at rush hour is bad. When i had traffic it was only as good as the people updating it. I can tell you many times it didnot work, trust me. As far as the fanboy comment you made. Your right hondadon't owe me shit! i hope they think that to the millions of fanboy's that give them revenue. if this is your way to justify your purchase then go ahead but my comment was an opinion so leave it the fuck there:thumbsdow

PetesTL

Well, my Nav traffic works fine and the update is instantaneous. But just because your's didn't work to your satisfaction doesn't mean all Acura's features are "worthless" as you call it. And you started the fanboy comment, not me. Just because Acura didn't build you your dream car doesn't mean you have to come in here and say the 4G is a waste. Like I said, jump ship. Go buy your GS 350 or whatever and tell all your Lexus friends how great it is. What do you want from us, validation?

Hugh9269

Well allot of people on the forums have not been "mind blown" by the 4G. I test drove it and I dont see the "big" improvement over the 3G, not for a $3000 price premium. I am disappointed the ELS sound system is required with the Navi now. It is really is a great system! The Acura Navi system is first rate and the best on the market. But many people dont need it driving day to day when a Garmin will do the same thing for $300.

I agree on the GS point, good car, but not worth the premium.

AsianRage

Isn't the point of having a NAV system is to use it to find places and NAVigate to it? Watching DVD is just side thing that only some car company will allow. It's not a standard.

omd316

44,000$ for a GS with ML is a GREAT deal , anyone saying other wise have never gotten one priced during times when car prices weren't so low .

auto_freak

Damn, just logged in today and have been seeing the 4G TL Section so heated up. calm down guys...

completely agree, Lexus are fine car manufacturers and so is Acura. You guys can stick to your fansites and we can stick to ours. please keep it civilized.

deznium

I agree with you on the part that every dealership is different. In general though, Lexus dealerships are MUCH better than Acura. However, I seem to share the same experience like you. There are 2-3 Lexus dealers in San Diego, out of which one of the dealership was REALLY rude and were big time snobs. When I went to check out the IS350 in my TSX, they started making fun of Acura (in general)... I was like screw you.. just left it after the test drive and didn't wanted to talk to those dum a**es.. My Acura dealer (on the other hand) is just the opposite.. greate service, they always give me a loaner (without me even asking) and they know and remember me by my name and face.. They're great overall. I've been to another Lexus dealer in SD and they were much like my Acura dealer.. so I guess it just depends.

Regarding the car competition (GS vs. TL), I think TL is more advanced in technology, the GPS, voice recognition etc.. are great, easy to use and very functional.. The drive is also very good. But Lexus is definitely more refined inside, feels MUCH more luxurious and makes you feel like a king when you drive it and the engine is softy-creamy-buttery smooth.. Both are great cars and you cannot compare two great cars. It just depends on you, if you're a techie geek, then TL, if you want more soft luxury then Lexus.. If I were to buy one of these cars, I guess it would be a tough decision to make (even if money was not an issue here)..

kobi2002

hey I have a tl. I just stated somthing in my opinion and not to be in a pissing contest. You need to chill.

deznium

I would take all the heated comments here as constructive criticism.. It's good to have such an attitude at times when you're about to make such a big purchase..

ggesq

iTrader: (1)

I'm quoting this in here as well so there won't be any question why someone gets banned.

If you guys want to start a civilized debate in a new thread on the GS350 vs. 09 TL, you're more than welcome to.

Will Y.

Neil's usage of words is why he is the only automotive writer to ever win a Pulitzer, so far.

Ultimately, Neil's articles give a [fun] additional perspective on each car to potential buyers, and it's an opinion, not the last word. IIRC, Neil referred to the 3G TL in terms indicating he felt it lacked soul. I have no issue with the additional refinement aspect of the 4G TL, but the bucktoothed visage (I prefer "beavertooth grill") isn't aesthetically pleasing. The new size and weight are issues for me. I also have doubts about the 4G interior, which I will inspect before jumping ship for another car or buying out my TL.

So it's the uncivilized debates that go to Car Talk or Ramblings?

ray-ban

If I had a 2nd choice to the 3G TL, itd be the Lexus IS