mtc46jw

Okay..... I bite. Whats the reasoning behind this Consumers recommendation? I thought both versions of the TL were above average in reliability. Have people been having a great deal of trouble with the AWD?




These cars to avoid

Last reviewed: April 2011
These 2001 to 2010 models have records of below-average reliability and are listed alphabetically by make and model.
Acura

TL (AWD) '10
Audi

A3 '06, '08; A4 (4-cyl.) '03-05; A4 '02; A6 (2.7T) '04; A6 (3.0T) '10; A6 (V6) '01-03, '08; A6 Allroad '01, '04; A8 '04; Q5 '09; Q7 '07-08; TT '08

gibbyisgibby

Hmmm.... the study must be funded by a domestic car company lol.

I donno, I havent heard of any major consistant issues with the car. A few rattles and blown speakers are pretty much the only consistant problems that i've heard of

Mr Marco

Eh-um, there's no citation here...how can we tell this is legit website vs. advertisement for Buick?

eazy

iTrader: (8)

link to source?

combat mediC

iTrader: (1)

Thats blasphemy. Some doucher for Fiat must've written it.

Mr Marco

lol, Jennifer Lopez wants to kill you!

Paprides

I've come to the conclusion, after many years of being a few steps away from them that Consumer reporters treat cars like they treat toasters or other appliances. Features mostly, such as reliability, safey, usefulness etc. Rarely am I struck with the notion, "wow, these guys really like to drive."

lji

Unfortunately, the link will only be valid to CR subscribers. I saw this list as well and I have a '10 AWD TL. Knock on wood so far, no major issues. I also wonder why only the '10 AWD TL is to be avoided. Why not the '09 or '11 models? Was there a drastic change somewhere? I think CR made a mistake here.

Rocketsfan

That Audi list looks like they're playing bingo or something

"A1, A2, A3, A4, Q1, B2, C3, Q7 ... hell all of 'em... BINGO!"

Ken1997TL

They also tell people to avoid the Civic and the CR-Z, they're smoking crack and are being paid by someone.

ZZZZZDX_White

I got dizzy just looking at the 'list' of the Audis + its models + years...

Sigh... too bad, I love the A5 and A7...

Ant$

I though the 10 and 11 were mostly carryovers...with only the manual trans being new on the 2010

pickler

recently i have noticed bias in consumer reports recommendations. for example they do not recommend the new civic. when i read that i though shit the new civic must really suck. however i drove one the other day as courtesy car and it was really nice. it was comfortable quite, maneuverable and 2 days of commute to work and home, and drive back to dealer, just $10 of gas! all city driving!

Buffa

I was scratching my head on this one too when the April issue came out. I meant to post something on here but forgot, so I'm glad someone did. I've been a long time subscriber to Consumer Reports and find them to be the polar opposite of say, Car and Driver. Interesting to get both takes though. Consumer Reports is way more reliability biased and of course Car and Driver performance biased.

Keep in mind, that the reliability (from what I understand) is solely determined by their annual questionnaire sent to subscribers. You check a box in each mechanical area if you felt there was a problem that caused significant inconvenience or downtime, something along that kind of wording. You're not supposed to check for routine maintenance, but it wouldn't surprise me if some less knowledgeable owners checked the box simply because they didn't like having to change the differential fluid so often. I'm grasping here, but who knows. I'm halfway tempted to email them to ask for more details.

George Knighton

It's subjective...I believe that CR tries very hard to be objective, but they are influenced by the reports that their subscribers send them, and reports by the people whom they engage to test and rate the vehicles.

People do not believe the current generation Civic is a good buy, that's all. The interior looks too plastic and hard when compared to the competition that costs about the same. Their testers just aren't as impressed with the current generation Civic as they are by other, newer designs.

My 2010 SH-AWD? Never a regret, not for a moment. You'd have to spend 20 grand more than I spent to get the equivalent vehicle in another marque. Maybe our interiors are a little boring, but I'm not spending 20 grand just to get a less capable AWD in favor of different textures and contrasting colors in my interior.

:-)

42,000+ miles already, and going strong.

George Knighton

I'm assuming the automatics are the same way, but something I noticed with my 6-6 is that when you are in a hurry, or not, the car sort of behaves like a track car with an aggressive alignment.

The car doesn't exactly "hunt" for direction, but it seems to be just waiting for an input from the driver. It is eager to change directions, if that makes sense.

The FWD TL doesn't feel the same, and if someone's gone from an FWD Accord or FWD 8G TL to an SH-AWD 6-6 G9 TL, I can very well imagine that for that particular driver the aggressiveness of the SH-AWD might be a shock, and might cause him to say that it is a "problem" for him because it cannot be changed...it's not a suspension or alignment issue...it's what the car is supposed to be doing.

I know, in fact, of a business acquaintance who returned an MDX and bought a Mercedes because for him the SH-AWD MDX was too aggressive. He had to pay attention to it, and he didn't like that.

g37guy01

The G37 is a beast, handles like it is on rails, is very tossable and is every bit as capable and faster for the same money. I like the interior better (with the maple accents) and the styling better. While the 335 for about $45K may not have all of the bells and whistles it will leave both cars in the dust as far as performance goes.

So when you say you would have to spend $20 grand more for an equivalent vehicle it's not true, unless you define what is equivalent.

For $56K the M35 hybrid is one heck of a vehicle.

Don't want to start a war, but I'm countering an opinion with another opinion.

George Knighton

That's perfectly valid and makes absolute sense.

When I say equivalent, we might include multi-vecotring AWD.

So we're talking (maybe!) vehicles like Audi Quattro cars with the optional Sports Differential, which isn't even available in some lines any longer.

Just as an arguing point, but fully accepting your observation and the validity of the message.

:-)

George Knighton

I remember a G37 at the VIR event for journalists, and the TL was much quicker around than the G37.

The TL coming out of Oak Tree is an absolute beast, and on the stock 19" wheels and tires the TL was hitting the chip on both the front straight and the back straight.

George Knighton

The M56...you got me.... I just don't know enough. I didn't even look at it because of what my Roadfly guy said about what he knew I'd like, and because of his complaint about rapidly dropping value in the Infiniti M line.

Please let me say again, however, that I understand that this is subjective to an extent, and that your point is completely valid.

g37guy01

I don't know anything about any rapidly dropping value in the M line, or TL line or 3 series or whatever. I was responding to the statement you can't pay $20K more and still get the same as a TL.

Of course, if you were being euphemistic, then .

g37guy01

Yeah I guess depending on the venue, event, reviewer, YMMV. To answer the question about is SHAWD a gimmick I would like to see professional drivers fling a few of the cars in this segment around Nurburing. An unbiased professionally run event would certainly put the question to bed about which car is faster around the racetrack.

DannyZRC

the 'ring is a giant dyno run. Maybe timed laps around horse thief mile and the big track at willow, for a who reigns supreme in the tight/more open stuff.

JM2010 SH-AWD

I believe that R&T tested the G and the TL (along with the 335 and S4) on the track and the TL ran a bit faster than the G in that test too.

Both good cars (both made my final cut), but I think the TL takes the nod in lap times (not that these cars were designed for that).

As far as 0-60 times, 6MT versus 6MT, most mag reports have the cars within .1 second of each other. R&T will tell you that differences of less than .3 are not signficant.

If anyone thinks SH-AWD is a gimmick, thye haven't driven one.

g37guy01

That's what I'm saying, all hearsay. I searched g37 vs tl and the only credible link was from insideline for a 2009 comparo.

I would like to see a real credible comparo from people who know what they are doing.

You're right I think it's a gimmick, I wouldn't get x drive from BMW for the same reason. Give me good ole' fashioned AWD any day. It hasn't really proven itself, imo, as it translates into every day driving. I think if you have it you might be prone to the o wow factor, but I'll leave open the possibility I am very wrong.

DannyZRC

http://www.roadandtrack.com/tests/co...door-firepower

They took a 335i, G37, S4, and TL SH-AWD to streets of willow, all equipped with manual trannies.
335i had sport pack, TL had HPT pack, G37 was a sport model, S4 had the full drive select package with active rear diff and active suspension.

TL : 1:01.51
G37 : 1:01.96
335 : 1:01.80
S4 :1:00.41

Stew4HD

*SNICKER, SNICKER* And on it goes... You base your "gimmick" tag on what?

g37guy01

The above results, that is drivers error. Running around Nurburing might give a completely different picture. A street race on a track will show a different scenario. As I said inside line has another take.

DannyZRC

g37 guy, insideline compared the G37 with the automatic to the TL with the automatic.

I think you're pretty silly to ascribe the laptimes to driver error, I doubt very much they only ran one hot lap in each car. They had 4 drivers, and I'm sure they all ran at least a few laps in each one to arrive at their result.

The cars run so close to each other that with perhaps the exception of the S4, it's a driver's race between the 3 remaining competitors. That's called Parity, and it's what you have when you compare the performance of these cars on a racing circuit.

And as I said before, the nurburgring is a giant dyno, and the fastest straight line car will absolutely turn the fastest lap, that track has enormous high speed straights.

g37guy01

You are absolutely correct and I agree with you.

The bottom line is, we quote our own sources to bolster our discussions. Each car has it's strengths and weaknesses and will be judged accordingly based on the environment.

Which is why I say sh is somewhat of a gimmick. TL is basically a nose-heavy car and the sh offsets some of that. The difference of milliseconds is not a win in a car comparo driven by journalists.

DannyZRC

we all have our angle, it's true. =D.

If I didn't love AWD so much, I'd probably love the G37 even more than I already do, which is a lot...especially considering that the G37 is unworkably small for me to sit in, =D

saturno_v

g37guy

Do yourself a favor and go and test drive a TL SH-AWD, ideally a 6 speed manual...not a stroll around the block, a real test drive and you'll realize that there is nothing "gimmicky" about it.....both Motortrend and Edmunds Insideline were able to go faster with a manual TL on a track than a 335 (both RWD and xDrive) which is amazing considering the Bimmer power/weight advantage and the turbocharger.....yes the 335i is faster on a straight line and I would be suprprised if weren't the case....even BMW & Driver admitted that in their hands the TL was faster on the track..


You can have all you reasons you want for not liking the TL, to each his own but the handling and road manners of the SH-AWD version are nothing short of fenomenal considering the size and weight of this big sedan.
The road feel and the driver perceived balance are totally different than the base FWD version which is already an excellent sport sedan as far as a big front driver can be.....I could never go back to a RWD or FWD car or even to a non torque vectoring full time AWD one (well...maybe except my wife's WRX STI )...yes it is that good indeed....

winstrolvtec

SH is the farthest thing from a gimmick, don't let the FWD architecture and bias fool you. It has plenty of rear bias as needed and rear axle vectoring which gives it it's edge and superior neutrality.

All these lap times are also a result of overall acceleration as well as handling ability. The TL being the largest, one of the heaviest, and with the least amount of power in R&T's comparo group, still finished a very close second which suggests that it is a clear winner in the handling and dynamics categories. This is also the case in many other comparos of this nature.

As stated, the steering feel or pure RWD tendencies and better weight distribution sensations, have little to do with the actual bottomline capabilities. It is true that normally everyone would hand pick the best info that supports their claim but most members here don't tend to simply take one source and run with it as there are quite a few consistent sources that substantiate these SH-AWD claims.


http://www.automobilemag.com/reviews..._s4/index.html

http://www.insideline.com/acura/tl/2...rst-drive.html

http://www.vtec.net/articles/view-ar...&page_number=3

http://www.roadandtrack.com/tests/co...door-firepower


Normally, people pick their cars for a number of subjective reasons first and try to come up with ways of justifying or further appreciating it with this type of material. With the 4G TL, it's kind of the other way around, most of us like this car for these reasons first and then we came to appreciate everything else even more.

g37guy01

I hear what you are saying but I'm done with manuals, I drove one for twelve years and in my neck of the woods I need a good street car and good awd so as to not get stuck. I need to merge fast, brake hard and be comfy. The 335 or 335is hands down is the winner manual or auto. If you want to spend 10 grand more go for the Audi.

I'm not saying shawd isn't good, but based on these reviews id rather have my g as the street car, I don't feel I missed anything even in the bimmer. Performance tests bear this out as the 335 at 4.8 to 60 will leave both g and TL in the dust.

On a highway TL is not seeing g brake lights or vice versa. Maybe ignorance is bliss but it's an informed bliss.

As an aside the sti is nice but the wrx beats it in either 0 to 60 or quarter mile. Which is kind of interesting.

Question about the inside line article, did they test all manuals? Didn't say. The fact is they used two year old cars at an Acura event. Not quite unbiased.

sarge_in

g37guy - Like others stated, not liking the TL (or any car) for styling / brand appeal / reliability etc without driving is understandable. But making judgement calls about the drive and drive-specific features without driving one - really?!

saturno_v

Bad weather SH-AWD capabilities are on par with any other full time AWD out there...even better in some situations, for example with asymmetrical (left/right) grip conditions because of torque vectoring.....

The TL SH-AWD automatic (especially with the new 6 speed) still retain its impressive handling capabilities.

TL SH-AWD braking numbers match the Porsche Panamera 4 3.6, believe or not...they are as every bit as good as the TL road manners.

With the auto tranny the 335i, the G or the S4 are noticeably quicker than an automatic TL SH-AWD on a straight line if that is what you are looking for....differences are greatly reduced if you compare them (335, S4, G and TL SH-AWD) in manual form....actually in this case the TL may be even quicker than the G.....

If comfort is what you are looking for, the TL leaves the 3 Series in the dust (roomier, plushier interiors, fantastic seats compared to the Honda Civic type ones on the Bimmer) and it is still noticeably better than the G or the S4....

Maybe just pure acceleration numbers in some magazine tests even if I do not really buy it....however, again, even a relatively short but real road test will openly and clearly reveal the differences between a regular WRX and the STI....steering precision, suspension response, torque curve, Alcantara seats, etc...the price gap is fully justified then some in my opinion....

All the car tested were manuals and were the current models available at the time of the test.....The TL manual happened to just come out.....not every manufacturer make model changes at the same time.....

Stew4HD

I have called him out many times on that very thing (voicing opinions about features without first hand knowledge), but that hasn't slowed him down.

George Knighton

I'd definitely agree with that.

It is extremely unusual to find vectoring AWD in the segments in which Acura chooses to market it. As I said, I have a personal acquaintance who returned an MDX and bought a Mercedes because he didn't like SH-AWD.

It's expected to see vectoring AWD in the Nissan GT-R, and the upcoming Porsche Carrera 4 (upcoming model year).

I wish people understood it more, and appreciated what a coup it is for Acura to have this kind of technology in the market segments in which it competes.

Torque vectoring makes up for so very much....increasing radius, varying road surfaces...a big truck cutting in on you as you both try to make a left turn and you're already on the median....it's a long list in real world driving, and it really does work.

I should have said that I was at VIR and I've had the car coming out of Oak Tree. I'm not saying it's an ultimate track car or anything because when it comes to it, it's a huge four door sedan. But it will surprise you, especially for the price and it that segment.

It's a clear hands down winner, in my opinion, and I've not had a single moment's regret after buying mine in November 2009.

Too bad that they introduced such aggressive styling right after the economy tanked!! You have to be a part of a fairly well off middle class economy to sell that kind of aggressive look, IMHO.

g37guy01

Search inside line g37 vs tl. I'm not out to convince anyone the tl is a good or bad car or the g is a good or bad car.

My point simply is based on all of the information available on the web shawd has a theoretical advantage on the track and little or no advantage on the street, compared to the G. (maybe except for some road feel)

This is an Acura site so of course there is a bias here, but based on my research I decided to forgo a test drive because 1) the styling didn't speak to me and 2) I couldn't justify what shawd was going to give me in my daily commute over the g based on what I read on the internet.

And if you listen to people who have driven both these cars hard over varying envirnonments, there are plusses and minuses to each. You always pick the car with the least amount of compromises and the most amount of pluses based on your own priority list.

I appreciate the civilized discussion.

George Knighton

http://www.insideline.com/infiniti/g...7-journey.html

This pits the G37 against the old five speed automatic TL SH-AWD.

I understand why the testers preferred the G37 in that test.

My hands on testing at VIR was with a 6-6 SH-AWD, and it was clearly superior to the G37, and all of the other sedans in the testing.

A 6-6 does the quarter in about 13.8, and gets to 60 in like 5.5-5.8, depending on what tires and if you have the 19" HPT package or not.