PsychDoc

And just barely ahead of the Chrysler 300???

What are these guys smoking?

Shoot2Thrill

Cancelled my subscription 25 years ago which was under a unique fictitious name, and got junk mail under that name for 20 years.

g37guy01

Well at least we agree on something. Years ago, when I was buying cars, I found I would rely on them for useful information.

Now, the types of things CR reviews in it's car ratings is different than what I look for in a car. In essence, if you need help in deciding a purchase, CR might be a useful resource.

Perfect example, Genesis on top according to CR? Where I live primarily (N/E) AWD is a must. Therefore the Genesis, would be knocked out of the box without so much as a test drive.

PsychDoc

Yup. When I bought my TL I considered the Genesis for a moment but the thought of driving a RWD car in the snow was a deal breaker.

The (FWD) TL was not so great in the snow but the very thought of a RWD car was just chilling.

I wanted the SH-AWD TL but was absolutely turned off by its harsh ride.

sarge_in

Actually, the interesting thing is CR was listing the TL as the top in "Upscale Sedan" till just a few days (like maybe 8-10 or so) back - even though its score was lower than some others. I had used CR to look up pricing info, and it was interesting to see TL at the top in Upscale Sedans and G37 at the top for Sports Sedans. Amused me as I had honed in on these two from my independent test drives and analysis too.

SeismicGuy

I found that with certain items, especially those that attract aficionados and types that do their own exhaustive research, CR is sometimes off the mark. They overly weigh things that most of us would not care about like an extra few tenths headroom or legroom and frequently miss or come to different conclusions about things like "sportiness, spiritedness, responsiveness, etc."

I glanced at that review and was surprised to see them describe the Genesis as responsive handling. There was such a night-and-day difference to the drive between the TL and the Genesis (and Lexus ES) that we drove that even my wife (who is not what I would call an aficionado) immediately commented on how much sportier and responsive the TL was. Of all the cars we have owned her benchmark in terms of drive feel was our 1986 BMW 325 and she said that the TL drive was reminiscent of that.

The matchup of cars that CR did this time was sort of peculiar and would attract very different tastes. The TL seems like the odd duck compared with the other 3.


Doug

PsychDoc

Indeed. CR's "reviews" of cameras are routinely viewed as little more than an amusement by real photographers.

So too when they used to (try to) review audio speakers.

As both an audiophile and a photo buff I always got a chuckle out of their misguided efforts in these areas.

Seems their automobile street cred has just hit the skids too.

The friggin' Avalon???

Really?

Bwahahahahahahahahah

sarge_in

One correction - the TL is listed behind Genesis and Lexus ES350, not the Avalon. The Avalon is at the top in another category altogether (Large Sedans).

SeismicGuy

By the way, I think CR got some of their headroom/legroom/hiproom etc. measurements wrong. Some of the measurements listed in the TL brochure were different than what CR is reporting. Moreover, I compared the measurements in the TL brochure with the ES350 brochure and I believe the TL is actually roomier in several measurements.

Also, the TL they were using was a base model and I believe the Genesis was not (at least based on the tested price).

Doug

Mr Marco

I find it hard to take a company, that also reviews leaf blowers, seriously about a luxury sports car.

JTS97Z28

iTrader: (4)

Not sure why anyone would use these reports. All they are is nothing more than one persons opinions. Drive the cars and decide for yourself :-) As for the three cars mentioned even if I wasnt into Acura TL's I would take a 2012+ TL over the other two listed cars all day long.

jjsC5

It's pretty simple. CR rates cars from a practical standpoint. Most folks on these forums have an emotional attachment to cars. If I wanted practical I wouldn't be looking at any of those cars, I'd be looking at four cylinder sedans that are priced in the low to mid $20's. Their information is probably not bad, it's just not designed for enthusiasts.

SeismicGuy

That is exactly the words I was looking for. CR is great for straightforward emotionless assessments.


Doug

PsychDoc

Nope. Look at the Sept. 2011 edition of CR. The cars I mentioned are compared head to head.

sarge_in

Oh, I don't have the printed version. I was referring to the online ratings. So seems the two versions are different.


While CR may not be 'enthusiast' oriented, it does provide comparative ratings on various parameters that I didn't think were off-base, and coincided pretty well with my feelings of comparisons between brands and models (at least the ones I was looking at). I also like the historic reliability data it has on various cars. Are there other sources for such reliability data?

Of course, it is best to use such resources for initial shortlist only, and then rely on your own test drives.

g37guy01

@sarge_in: One reason I didn't consult CR is I had a 1 week test drive of the G under my belt and even with going around to many other dealers, I feel comfortable in buying almost any modern day car without looking at CR.

I wasn't worried about reliability, that's what warranties are for. Looking at reliability ratings and hoping the best for your car is like gambling. IMO.

My one gripe with the G in the, "what were they thinking dept" has to do with the idiotic way they designed the cupholders. In such a well thought out car, I can't believe how bad they are placed.

I actually stopped looking at CR auto data about 1995. But I do like their take on other stuff.

mickey3c

I am surprised how the TL is rated but then again I have not seen too much out of the brand. They finally have a 6 speed automatic. Of course most competitors now have a 7 or an 8. Imagine it took at least 10 years to bring in a 6 speed auto.

It's not bad car but they have added a lot of features and the car is topping out at 40K for the AWD. There are a lot of cars for the money in that category. It's not a luxury car, it might feel like it after you step up from an accord. The hill start assist on the 6m reminds me of the old subaru days so that was a bit eyebrow raising for me.

With gas prices seeming to be forever north of the 3.00 range from here on it might not fair so well down the road. A 2.0 turbo that puts out better 30+ miles per gallon with 100K warranty might be a better bet and its on regular gas. Sure it's Korean but it gets a run to 60 in 6.5 and does 34 mpg.

If you are going for all the bells and whistles and have 40K to spend, pony up a couple more bucks and get the S4.

I have owned
3 acuras (Tl, CL, and TL)
G35
A4
S4

I know some don't like the german dash color scheme, but the interior cannot be beat and the S4 performance with 27 MPG is nothing you will get from an acura or many other cars for that matter. I still have the A4 and it has 116,000 on it and the rear brakes are still orginal. No major work done to the car and no extended warrantly was purchased. No oil consumption issue either. I changed the oil every 10K.

The Infiniti has improved as well but I never liked how it was set up with the original crappy rubber on it. Mileage for AWD was horrible at 23 combined best case.

Don't look for a lot of used car value as when you buy a 37,000 car and expect 25,000 after driving it 40K , that's not going to happen as much is it used to.

It's still a good brand and car but there are so many other vehicles to pick from...

BEAR-AvHistory

Something must be going on with Honda because IIRC they took the Civic off the recommended list for the first time ever.

jspagna1

I don't put much faith in CR's findings. More times than not it appears they follow the popular vote rather than deatiled comparisons.
The Genesis doesn't have enough of a track record IMO although I would agree with the Avalon being a great car, just not my style.

TampaJim

I think we are all a bit biased and unable to give a fair opinion on CR's data and ratings.

That being said, the information IS useful ... even for us. We used the CR database to read the owner reviews, check prices and decide between another SUV (the MDX) and a sedan (the TL). We finally chose the sedan (our first car since the 90s) for fuel economy. Although we can afford to drive almost any vehicle, it just didn't make sense to keep plowing cash into the gas pumps.

On another note, I am sure that CR doesn't place as much emphasis on the sporty nature of the TL as we do. Both of the sedans mentioned are very nice rides ... they just don't have the same appeal to an enthusiast.

Pseudomaniac

iTrader: (1)

Just means Honda didn't pony up enough cash to the media moguls that own the publication.

These magazines writing ANYTHING positive about the garbage coming out of Detroit the last 30 years is a testament to their objectivity.

PsychDoc

As much as I think their conclusions are not terribly valid that doesn't mean that they are "on the take."

That's just pure tin foil hat conspiracy nut thinking.

SeismicGuy

This has always been my only surprise/complaint when it came to Acura. As I posted elsewhere they have never seemed to be able to figure out how better to "toot their own horn". They had a jumpstart on the Asian luxury market by several years when they released the first Legend but just never seemed to build on that. The current top-of-the-line RL still has a 6 cylinder engine while the Euro and Asian competitors have long ago move up to 8. And at at price tag well above $50K that is not going to get the attention of higher-end luxury car buyers.

The advertising for Acura is either non-existent or so ho-hum that I can barely recall a TV add, versus the attention grabbing advertising of Infiniti, Lexus, Mercedes, BMW and even Hyundai. Even the brochure I got from the Acura dealer for the TL is inscrutable. Seemingly arbitrary very large numbers on each page before describing some feature that the number is supposed to represent (if you have seen the brochure you know what I am talking about).

I think Acura/Honda need to scrap their entire marketing department and maybe borrow some of the guys from Infiniti to help them figure out some direction.

Of course the TL is a great car (I am in the process of buying one) but just hasn't quite kept up with all the bells and whistles of the competition.

Just my opinion.


Doug

Mr Marco

Speak for yourself. We actually went from dealer to dealer and drove the competition.
The only car we really considered as a close second was the CTS. Besides the tranny hump that intrudes into the passenger wheel well, It was $50k comparably equipped. Dollar for Dollar there is nothing better than the TL. nothing.

g37guy01

I rented the CTS on a recent trip had it for a week. Somethings I liked better than my G, other things I didn't.

At the end of the day, I thought my G overall was better at it's mission than the CTS. But the CTS to my surprise did some things better than the G.

Statements such as the above, only invite a pissing contest between two cars, even though I realize it is IYHO.

Mr Marco

Welcome to the interwebs...

KeithL

I use CR for reliability info only. While the Genesis is a nice car, its lack of ride refinement and cheaper interior to me does not justify a top spot in CR, the TL is clearly a better built better riding car with better quality materials.

saturno_v

No to pick on you but do you really believe that the interior of an A4 or an S4 is more luxurious or upscale?? Just to say.....dream on...


There are a lot of things wrong nowadays with Acura that I simply do not understand.......without even getting into the lack of a sport/roadster model, just simply the still existence of the RL (what is the point of that car??) or the lack of SH-AWD on the TSX

But the TL, in its SH-AWD form is a killer car capable to easily compete with vehicles costing much more......I truly believe is the best that Acura has to offer at the moment.

When it comes to publication, I trust CR for the price/value and reliability info...they are the only one I trust actually....


When it comes to design evaluation, dynamic and performance abilities nowadays I trust only my personal opinion or some cold hard numbers....on C&D the 4th gen TL went from:

"Finally, an Acura sculpted front to back with a single theme in mind, rakish, ominous, one step short of menacing. If ever there was a car meant to look sinister in the images transmitted from a Predator drone circling overhead, it’s the 2009 Acura TL. This is brave, and the more we look, the more we see a breakthrough design." (C&D TL road test in 2009)

....to being one of the ugliest car on the market in no time.....commerical publication have the same trustworthiness of children magazines....they get to test spanking new cars loaded to the max without actually paying a penny for them so...... the hell with price/value evaluation.....


I understand the disappointment for those driving automatic for the lack or extra gears...I do not care because I drive a manual.....there are not other large AWD sedans with torque vectoring and manual transmission on the market....

RXDoc

To get an S4 loaded with what the SH-AWD has STANDARD one would have to spend well north of 50 grand; not " a couple more bucks". Also reliability of the supercharged V-6 has come into question, Google S4 and water pump failure. I'll admit the S4 is one hell of a car and if I had the money to blow on a weekend car (not a daily driver) the S4 would be my car.

saturno_v

...so if you already own a TL SH-AWD (actually even if you don't) the S4 would be your weekend car??? Sorry but the S4 is the farthest vehicle I can think of from a weekend car, they way I interpret the term.....

Edward'TLS

Simple interpretation.

If one puts too much mileage on the S4, things will all start to break. So a weekend car be it.

Steven Bell

iTrader: (2)

Am I missing something, but really-the Toyota Avalon? Is it really that great of a car? It looks like everything else on the road.....

saturno_v

....that is a good one Edward!!! .....and unfortunately for many Audi owners it is often true!!!

Edward'TLS

Gathered from my previous experience with my '97 A4, and my current experience with my '05 A6.

LaCostaRacer

I'm looking at the report now and TL, Genesis, and Avalon are pretty much bunched up in the ratings. The Car Buyers guide will usually use a point score that I see lacking in the monthly reports.

It looks like trunk, rear seat comfort, premium gas requirement, turning radius, maximum load capacity are key factors in it getting the rating it got. The 300C probably would have scored higher if the base price was not 38K .vs. the 36K for the TL. The one stand-out for the TL was 'Predicted Reliability' in which it aced being the only car with the full red circle which is the best rating. The TL was the base model too so it did not have any options and the lowest tested price.

I think the opening sentence says it all for the TL: "Although well rounded the TL doesn't standout in this class". For CU, the fact that the LATCH child system is awkward probably knocked it down from the Avalon- yikes not important to many people!

omaralt

lol you guys can make fun of the avalon all you want; but i was at the toyota dealership servicing my wifes camry and holy cow that avalon has an amazing back seat! with the drivers seat back enough for me (i'm 6'2) i comfortably sat behind the driver! and get this, the back seat reclines! that car had the best rear leg room i have ever sat in! but ya i'm sure it drives like my wifes camry

Ruby

Honda and Acura have fallen back behind in the past few years in all categories...

TinyRK

So you're saying you serviced your wife on the Avalon's back-seat?
Hmm, I yet have to pop my TL backseat's cherry

omaralt

lol i would definitely prefer to service my wife in the backseat of the avalon vs the TL!

Pseudomaniac

iTrader: (1)

Sure, sure....I have a tinfoil hat and a rifle. Actually....


Anyone who doesn't think a publication is on the take when they mention the words Chrysler and Acura in the same sentence without the use of a metaphor such as "The Chrysler rode like something that might have come out of the Acura's tailpipe" or "The plastics on the Chrylser were barely up to the standards of the protection film from the factory covering the tight woven Acura carpeting.".....needs some more crack.

Where's Clarkson when you need a good metaphor...oh wait...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfklQnPnDkg