Cars.com $46k Sport Sedan Challenge
04-18-2013, 07:43 AM
#42
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04-18-2013, 10:45 AM
#44
the way I read it, the TL placed in the middle of the pack of other cars that were (a) smaller, (b) less powerful and (c) lacking at least one or more important features (AWD, nav, backup camera, no cost MT option). And it costs the same. That's a pretty good showing IMO. The only reason it was even included here is because it has the same price as those other cars - that's really the only common feature.
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HeartTLs (04-18-2013)
04-18-2013, 01:38 PM
#45
6G TLX-S
^^^^^
This is exactly the problem the Acura brand has been and is still facing right now.
It should be the equivalent-sized TSX, not the bigger-sized TL, that should be representing Acura in this test challenge.
But Acura is no luxury brand, and so cannot price it's products as such. Thus, Acura is only able to price the smaller-sized TSX at $30+K, and the bigger-sized TL at $40+K. A $40K TSX or a $50K TL simply won't sell at all.
As a result, the $45K TL is getting picked to play with all these smaller contenders.
Looking from another perspective, this may be a good thing for us consumers. Acura is more like a value-buy auto brand, selling more for less price, and undercutting all it's luxury competitors in pricing.
But unfortunately, it will also continue to erode the brand's upscale image, lowering the Acura brand down towards the value-buy direction, instead raising it up towards the more desirable more upscale luxury direction.
This is exactly the problem the Acura brand has been and is still facing right now.
It should be the equivalent-sized TSX, not the bigger-sized TL, that should be representing Acura in this test challenge.
But Acura is no luxury brand, and so cannot price it's products as such. Thus, Acura is only able to price the smaller-sized TSX at $30+K, and the bigger-sized TL at $40+K. A $40K TSX or a $50K TL simply won't sell at all.
As a result, the $45K TL is getting picked to play with all these smaller contenders.
Looking from another perspective, this may be a good thing for us consumers. Acura is more like a value-buy auto brand, selling more for less price, and undercutting all it's luxury competitors in pricing.
But unfortunately, it will also continue to erode the brand's upscale image, lowering the Acura brand down towards the value-buy direction, instead raising it up towards the more desirable more upscale luxury direction.
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04-18-2013, 02:01 PM
#46
CTSV,TL, Audi Q7 & A5SB
^^^^^
This is exactly the problem the Acura brand has been and is still facing right now.
It should be the equivalent-sized TSX, not the bigger-sized TL, that should be representing Acura in this test challenge.
But Acura is no luxury brand, and so cannot price it's products as such. Thus, Acura is only able to price the smaller-sized TSX at $30+K, and the bigger-sized TL at $40+K. A $40K TSX or a $50K TL simply won't sell at all.
As a result, the $45K TL is getting picked to play with all these smaller contenders.
Looking from another perspective, this may be a good thing for us consumers. Acura is more like a value-buy auto brand, selling more for less price, and undercutting all it's luxury competitors in pricing.
But unfortunately, it will also continue to erode the brand's upscale image, lowering the Acura brand down towards the value-buy direction, instead raising it up towards the more desirable more upscale luxury direction.
This is exactly the problem the Acura brand has been and is still facing right now.
It should be the equivalent-sized TSX, not the bigger-sized TL, that should be representing Acura in this test challenge.
But Acura is no luxury brand, and so cannot price it's products as such. Thus, Acura is only able to price the smaller-sized TSX at $30+K, and the bigger-sized TL at $40+K. A $40K TSX or a $50K TL simply won't sell at all.
As a result, the $45K TL is getting picked to play with all these smaller contenders.
Looking from another perspective, this may be a good thing for us consumers. Acura is more like a value-buy auto brand, selling more for less price, and undercutting all it's luxury competitors in pricing.
But unfortunately, it will also continue to erode the brand's upscale image, lowering the Acura brand down towards the value-buy direction, instead raising it up towards the more desirable more upscale luxury direction.
04-18-2013, 03:31 PM
#47
^^^^^
This is exactly the problem the Acura brand has been and is still facing right now.
It should be the equivalent-sized TSX, not the bigger-sized TL, that should be representing Acura in this test challenge.
But Acura is no luxury brand, and so cannot price it's products as such. Thus, Acura is only able to price the smaller-sized TSX at $30+K, and the bigger-sized TL at $40+K. A $40K TSX or a $50K TL simply won't sell at all.
As a result, the $45K TL is getting picked to play with all these smaller contenders.
Looking from another perspective, this may be a good thing for us consumers. Acura is more like a value-buy auto brand, selling more for less price, and undercutting all it's luxury competitors in pricing.
But unfortunately, it will also continue to erode the brand's upscale image, lowering the Acura brand down towards the value-buy direction, instead raising it up towards the more desirable more upscale luxury direction.
This is exactly the problem the Acura brand has been and is still facing right now.
It should be the equivalent-sized TSX, not the bigger-sized TL, that should be representing Acura in this test challenge.
But Acura is no luxury brand, and so cannot price it's products as such. Thus, Acura is only able to price the smaller-sized TSX at $30+K, and the bigger-sized TL at $40+K. A $40K TSX or a $50K TL simply won't sell at all.
As a result, the $45K TL is getting picked to play with all these smaller contenders.
Looking from another perspective, this may be a good thing for us consumers. Acura is more like a value-buy auto brand, selling more for less price, and undercutting all it's luxury competitors in pricing.
But unfortunately, it will also continue to erode the brand's upscale image, lowering the Acura brand down towards the value-buy direction, instead raising it up towards the more desirable more upscale luxury direction.
04-18-2013, 04:08 PM
#48
^^^^^
This is exactly the problem the Acura brand has been and is still facing right now.
It should be the equivalent-sized TSX, not the bigger-sized TL, that should be representing Acura in this test challenge.
But Acura is no luxury brand, and so cannot price it's products as such. Thus, Acura is only able to price the smaller-sized TSX at $30+K, and the bigger-sized TL at $40+K. A $40K TSX or a $50K TL simply won't sell at all.
As a result, the $45K TL is getting picked to play with all these smaller contenders.
Looking from another perspective, this may be a good thing for us consumers. Acura is more like a value-buy auto brand, selling more for less price, and undercutting all it's luxury competitors in pricing.
But unfortunately, it will also continue to erode the brand's upscale image, lowering the Acura brand down towards the value-buy direction, instead raising it up towards the more desirable more upscale luxury direction.
This is exactly the problem the Acura brand has been and is still facing right now.
It should be the equivalent-sized TSX, not the bigger-sized TL, that should be representing Acura in this test challenge.
But Acura is no luxury brand, and so cannot price it's products as such. Thus, Acura is only able to price the smaller-sized TSX at $30+K, and the bigger-sized TL at $40+K. A $40K TSX or a $50K TL simply won't sell at all.
As a result, the $45K TL is getting picked to play with all these smaller contenders.
Looking from another perspective, this may be a good thing for us consumers. Acura is more like a value-buy auto brand, selling more for less price, and undercutting all it's luxury competitors in pricing.
But unfortunately, it will also continue to erode the brand's upscale image, lowering the Acura brand down towards the value-buy direction, instead raising it up towards the more desirable more upscale luxury direction.
04-18-2013, 04:59 PM
#49
Burning Brakes
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What's truly mind boggling is how Acura came up with the sexiest design I've seen for the new NSX, and then completely drops the ball on the RLX - I would take a new Avalon over the RLX, shit I would take a Buick. They both look better and for day to day driving PAWS or whatever the hell its called isn't gonna matter.
The next TL has got to lose weight, gain power, keep SH-AWD, and look damn sexy to have a chance - if Acura screws it up, they may as well drop everything, and just sell the MDX.
The next TL has got to lose weight, gain power, keep SH-AWD, and look damn sexy to have a chance - if Acura screws it up, they may as well drop everything, and just sell the MDX.
04-18-2013, 06:15 PM
#50
6G TLX-S
Unless the upcoming 5G TL carries a starting price tag of $50K, and thus in the similar price range as it's big brothers (A6/5-series/GS/E-class), otherwise nothing will change for Acura with which the TL will continue to compete with the smaller brothers (A4/3-series/IS/C-class).
04-19-2013, 08:08 AM
#51
Burning Brakes
Who were driving these cars? Those were some relatively slow 0-60 and 1/4 mile times.
http://blogs.cars.com/kickingtires/2...e-numbers.html
http://blogs.cars.com/kickingtires/2...e-numbers.html
04-22-2013, 04:53 PM
#53
04-22-2013, 08:19 PM
#56
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Guess some were worrying about rub off from the family tree especially with sales tanking.
BTW they are called Bimmers - Beamers are the BMW motorcycles like my Yahama
Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; 04-22-2013 at 08:24 PM.
04-22-2013, 08:22 PM
#57
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04-22-2013, 09:18 PM
#58
6G TLX-S
I think it's in the blood that the Acura owners and the BMW owners will never mix.
04-23-2013, 11:29 AM
#59
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^^^^
Nah can't believe that since I had both at the same time. Both are nice at what they do. Its more like some people tend to define who they are by what kind of car they drive & some just drive whatever pleases them. The second group seldom have brand to brand issues.
Nah can't believe that since I had both at the same time. Both are nice at what they do. Its more like some people tend to define who they are by what kind of car they drive & some just drive whatever pleases them. The second group seldom have brand to brand issues.
Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; 04-23-2013 at 11:31 AM.
04-23-2013, 12:58 PM
#60
^^^^
Nah can't believe that since I had both at the same time. Both are nice at what they do. Its more like some people tend to define who they are by what kind of car they drive & some just drive whatever pleases them. The second group seldom have brand to brand issues.
Nah can't believe that since I had both at the same time. Both are nice at what they do. Its more like some people tend to define who they are by what kind of car they drive & some just drive whatever pleases them. The second group seldom have brand to brand issues.
You think that applies to regular cars? When I think of that statement, I think of people in exotics. Although there are a few exceptions to that in my opinion, such has soccer mom's in bus size SUV's, <5'7 males in equally enormus SUV's, prius drivers, <24 90's honda drivers and hummer drivers in general. Bah what am I talking about that applies to a ton of people/vehicles
04-23-2013, 02:40 PM
#61
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I have no animosity towards BMW's I'm actually quite fond of them and most owners. I don't socialize with the 328 types I mentioned above although I know them well.
You think that applies to regular cars? When I think of that statement, I think of people in exotics. Although there are a few exceptions to that in my opinion, such has soccer mom's in bus size SUV's, <5'7 males in equally enormus SUV's, prius drivers, <24 90's honda drivers and hummer drivers in general. Bah what am I talking about that applies to a ton of people/vehicles
You think that applies to regular cars? When I think of that statement, I think of people in exotics. Although there are a few exceptions to that in my opinion, such has soccer mom's in bus size SUV's, <5'7 males in equally enormus SUV's, prius drivers, <24 90's honda drivers and hummer drivers in general. Bah what am I talking about that applies to a ton of people/vehicles
This is especially true when it’s the only car they have & their ticket to a specific level of personally perceived car status. I think someone with a TL & an ATS would be less likely to identify with a car than some one who only had either one.
I remember the p*ss*ng contests on 3G when the TL-S came out about don’t criticize the Type S just because you can only afford a “base” TL. I took exception as to what I could or could not afford & at the time fuel was at one of its upswing peaks. I mentioned the price spread between a TL & a TL-S would refuel the boat from empty less than 2 times. Did that ever create a stink.
Look at the crap that gets posted when someone moves upmarket from a TL. Instead of Congrats on your new car you get its over priced, its going to break next week, my brother in laws Audi sucked, it has no resale value & so on.
I remember Blackular? who pioneered a lot of stuff for the 3G get his hide ripped off when he went from a 4G to a Audi S.
Was about 15-20 posts into the thread before someone, me, offered him a straight congrats on his new car which was really a sweet ride.
Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; 04-23-2013 at 02:44 PM.
04-23-2013, 02:54 PM
#62
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Reason I thought it was my car is the rear calipers were painted black to match the Brembos & it had smoked rear side markers that blended into the gray paint. The TL also had a Carmax sticker on the trunk which is the company I wound up selling it to instead of a trade or private sale.
I was a nice guy I did not run him.
04-23-2013, 05:27 PM
#63
If you define regular cars as Acura, Audi, BMW etc. 100%. Most Chevy Malibu's don’t have fan sites, at least the non muscle car versions. Most regular people don't post to fan sites, car whacks like us do & they in too many cases very closely identify with their ride.
This is especially true when it’s the only car they have & their ticket to a specific level of personally perceived car status. I think someone with a TL & an ATS would be less likely to identify with a car than some one who only had either one.
I remember the p*ss*ng contests on 3G when the TL-S came out about don’t criticize the Type S just because you can only afford a “base” TL. I took exception as to what I could or could not afford & at the time fuel was at one of its upswing peaks. I mentioned the price spread between a TL & a TL-S would refuel the boat from empty less than 2 times. Did that ever create a stink.
Look at the crap that gets posted when someone moves upmarket from a TL. Instead of Congrats on your new car you get its over priced, its going to break next week, my brother in laws Audi sucked, it has no resale value & so on.
I remember Blackular? who pioneered a lot of stuff for the 3G get his hide ripped off when he went from a 4G to a Audi S.
Was about 15-20 posts into the thread before someone, me, offered him a straight congrats on his new car which was really a sweet ride.
This is especially true when it’s the only car they have & their ticket to a specific level of personally perceived car status. I think someone with a TL & an ATS would be less likely to identify with a car than some one who only had either one.
I remember the p*ss*ng contests on 3G when the TL-S came out about don’t criticize the Type S just because you can only afford a “base” TL. I took exception as to what I could or could not afford & at the time fuel was at one of its upswing peaks. I mentioned the price spread between a TL & a TL-S would refuel the boat from empty less than 2 times. Did that ever create a stink.
Look at the crap that gets posted when someone moves upmarket from a TL. Instead of Congrats on your new car you get its over priced, its going to break next week, my brother in laws Audi sucked, it has no resale value & so on.
I remember Blackular? who pioneered a lot of stuff for the 3G get his hide ripped off when he went from a 4G to a Audi S.
Was about 15-20 posts into the thread before someone, me, offered him a straight congrats on his new car which was really a sweet ride.
On the 4G side I don't think anyone looks down at other members because they got a base, tech, awd, adv, etc model. I do know I made one condescending remark towards another member in regards to that, but it wasn't out of spite, jealousy or superiority complex, it was because of his shit attitude.
As far as other members not congratulaing one another on new purchases from other makes that I have to disagree on, when con got a 2013 5 series w/sport package, almost everyone was positive, same when Nexson got the GS.
That's sad to hear, I didn't remember that, Allan is a cool guy with subjective reason and generally good taste. I do remember the thread and talking to him in person about the Audi (I thought it was a sweet ride btw), he himself said he felt as though the Audi was 10k more expensive than the TL and yet didn't do nothing better than the TL and that it had some shortcomings in comparison to the TL as well. Although he did mention improved MPG/straight line acceration.
04-23-2013, 06:04 PM
#64
2010 TL AWD 6MT: New King
My current 4G TL 6MT has enough issues with its transmission I believe it has more issues/problems than my friends who own BMW, MB, Audi, and Porsche.
I'm currently considering a 911, a vehicle that I have longed gawked and wanted. I recently posted a thread about a 996tt I test drove. I got some positive posts, but sure enough, I got 2 posts implying that "the repair bills and maintenance" were going to break me (note that I do not hold a grudge against the posters). IMHO the TL or any other current/past Acura sedan/coupe doesn't even come close to the 911 in terms of performance, design, and that "want factor." IMHO.
04-23-2013, 06:42 PM
#65
LOL, so true. My opinion is that one has preconceived conceptions and notions about objects and ideas.
My current 4G TL 6MT has enough issues with its transmission I believe it has more issues/problems than my friends who own BMW, MB, Audi, and Porsche.
I'm currently considering a 911, a vehicle that I have longed gawked and wanted. I recently posted a thread about a 996tt I test drove. I got some positive posts, but sure enough, I got 2 posts implying that "the repair bills and maintenance" were going to break me (note that I do not hold a grudge against the posters). IMHO the TL or any other current/past Acura sedan/coupe doesn't even come close to the 911 in terms of performance, design, and that "want factor." IMHO.
My current 4G TL 6MT has enough issues with its transmission I believe it has more issues/problems than my friends who own BMW, MB, Audi, and Porsche.
I'm currently considering a 911, a vehicle that I have longed gawked and wanted. I recently posted a thread about a 996tt I test drove. I got some positive posts, but sure enough, I got 2 posts implying that "the repair bills and maintenance" were going to break me (note that I do not hold a grudge against the posters). IMHO the TL or any other current/past Acura sedan/coupe doesn't even come close to the 911 in terms of performance, design, and that "want factor." IMHO.
I'm not living in the past and actually these weren't the articles I was looking for but I thought I'd leave these gems behind: http://www.flickr.com/photos/6708074...n/photostream/ and this, unfortunately this was a AT comparo, http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...x/viewall.html
04-23-2013, 07:56 PM
#66
Well if you do a search there was a big whine & cheese fest here when Consumer Reports dumped the Honda from best buy to not recommended.
Guess some were worrying about rub off from the family tree especially with sales tanking.
BTW they are called Bimmers - Beamers are the BMW motorcycles like my Yahama
Guess some were worrying about rub off from the family tree especially with sales tanking.
BTW they are called Bimmers - Beamers are the BMW motorcycles like my Yahama
04-23-2013, 08:03 PM
#67
2010 TL AWD 6MT: New King
I'm not living in the past and actually these weren't the articles I was looking for but I thought I'd leave these gems behind: http://www.flickr.com/photos/6708074...n/photostream/ and this, unfortunately this was a AT comparo, http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...x/viewall.html
I'm definitely looking forward to the upcoming 2014/15 release of the NSX.I have not driven a NSX yet but it appears the 1G NSX compares very favorably to the 996 c4 and c4s. The 996tt/997tt though has an absolutely monstrous engine. 0-60 in 4.0 and less . IMHO vehicles (high cost or not) have a subjective feel to them that cannot be quantified. At least that's what my gut tells me.
I retract my original statement. The NSX can hold its own against the 996 c4/c4s, but not against the 996/997tt.
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HeartTLs (04-23-2013)
04-23-2013, 10:37 PM
#68
Burning Brakes
This is true.I'm currently considering a 911, a vehicle that I have longed gawked and wanted. I recently posted a thread about a 996tt I test drove. I got some positive posts, but sure enough, I got 2 posts implying that "the repair bills and maintenance" were going to break me (note that I do not hold a grudge against the posters). IMHO the TL or any other current/past Acura sedan/coupe doesn't even come close to the 911 in terms of performance, design, and that "want factor." IMHO.
997 on the other hand still commands its presence next to the new 991. It actually looks better to me at least.
A friend who has been eyeing a 911 Turbo for the past 5 years passed up a 996tt 3 years ago listed at around 40k and just recently picked up an 07 997tt for 60k. The car has all the options with an extended warranty and a shade over 50,000miles. That's the route I would shoot for
04-24-2013, 12:28 AM
#69
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There was a real nice 997 bright yellow cab turbo with red brakes & the top down parked behind me at a Red Box a few weeks ago. The guy had just bought it, still had the paper tags on it. Big smile on his face.
04-24-2013, 12:34 AM
#70
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04-24-2013, 06:37 PM
#71
Love the C7 both versions, but the vert is stunning...I think they nailed the design...But I heard the camaro comments before, also the GTR ones...I guess its in the eye of the beholder...I'll wait for the Z version if my "funds" dont run out....FWIW chevy changed the taillights on the camaro refresh...go figure
Last edited by NwTSXmt; 04-24-2013 at 06:39 PM.
04-24-2013, 06:43 PM
#72
04-24-2013, 07:06 PM
#73
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Agree you can't take it personally I would like to see what they are going to do at a one over base level. The convert or M4 look like next on the list sometime in 2014.
I would like to see what they are going to do at a one over base level. The convert or M4 look like next on the list sometime in 2014.
Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; 04-24-2013 at 07:09 PM.
04-28-2013, 12:38 PM
#75
Burning Brakes
I don't know if motorweek normalized the result, but because testing methodology is all over the place, I tend not believe numbers that are extreme at either end. Just because it's published doesn't make it right or reproducible.
04-28-2013, 12:43 PM
#76
Burning Brakes
the way I read it, the TL placed in the middle of the pack of other cars that were (a) smaller, (b) less powerful and (c) lacking at least one or more important features (AWD, nav, backup camera, no cost MT option). And it costs the same. That's a pretty good showing IMO. The only reason it was even included here is because it has the same price as those other cars - that's really the only common feature.
Less powerful is meaningless especially when the BMW showed up faster.
You notice there was no G37. That surprised me.
04-28-2013, 12:54 PM
#77
Agree with the last two points, well said, but I do think that brings up the issue mentioned earlier here and many times before, being bigger and possibly the mixed drivetrains as well, means the TL should probably never be placed in this comparo if it was more in depth from a consumer standpoint.
Except that all it takes to stack a few cars up against each other is price points and luxury vacinity or position, where that may be a starting point for most but certainly gets much more norrwed down as the shopping and inquiring continues. Not to harp on this but I have no issue with grouping all mid size luxury sedans together, or compacts, etc, if that's what I'm looking for, and how much luxury it has or how much I'm willing to pay for more or less of that, is up to me. At least the foundational or fundamental basis for that comparison is the same. It's all in the context or the criteria of the comparison that usually determines the outcome, it can even be predetermined depending on what they are or what that is.
Except that all it takes to stack a few cars up against each other is price points and luxury vacinity or position, where that may be a starting point for most but certainly gets much more norrwed down as the shopping and inquiring continues. Not to harp on this but I have no issue with grouping all mid size luxury sedans together, or compacts, etc, if that's what I'm looking for, and how much luxury it has or how much I'm willing to pay for more or less of that, is up to me. At least the foundational or fundamental basis for that comparison is the same. It's all in the context or the criteria of the comparison that usually determines the outcome, it can even be predetermined depending on what they are or what that is.
Last edited by winstrolvtec; 04-28-2013 at 12:59 PM.
04-28-2013, 04:47 PM
#78
6G TLX-S
The BMW direct-injected and intercooled turbo 2L-I4 generates 260 lb-ft of torque at a lowly 1250 rpm, which is even more than the TL 3.5L-V6's 244 lb-ft @ 5000 rpm.
So even if the 240hp turbo 328 might not actually beat the TL in the 0-60, it is highly capable of running neck to neck with the TL.
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04-29-2013, 05:27 PM
#79
Burning Brakes
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while we have no proof of the testing procedure, I could easily see the times they got if they had several people in the car, and I guarantee you they weren't in S driving position. I know when I have 4 adults in the car headed to lunch there is a very distinct drop in acceleration. Several factors to a good 0-60, temperature, how much gas in the tank, air quality, tires...blah blah. My butt dyno always registers the fastest when its around 60 degrees out, tires are around 34psi, and only a 1/4 tank of gas