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I just wanted to vent a little and say I lost a bit of faith in buying used.
Bought a CPO 2012 SH-AWD in November 2015.
1st issue: Bought splash guards and noticed right rear bumper didn't align properly. Found out it was pushed in further than usual. Dealer popped it out and all was good. Made me think twice about its "clean" history but I got over it.
2nd issue: After washing my car this past weekend, I thought I saw water droplets that I forgot to wipe on the right rear bumper (same side as the splash guard issue). After close inspection, I noticed that it was a bad finish on a paint job done.
Hard to tell in the pic but you can see a horizontal line of excess paint that dried, not leveled with the rest of the paint.
It's like I don't even know my car!! Always 20/20 hindsight...
tell tale....but you are right justnspace. Even just running the back of your hand against all the panels can tell you more than your eyes can. I always stand back about 15 ft from a vehicle and inspect the lines from any angle. That also helps
imagine that....please pull apart so i can inspect. lol I purchased my 08 with a clear 2nd hand paint job of front bumper because they cracked bottom part of Aspec lip. Undercarriage and frame was clean so I bought it. Took it to Acura and had it resprayed. Take it to a shop and get it taken care of if it bothers you. It would bother me
Just because a car has a clean title, does not mean it hasn't ever been hit. It's a good idea to personally go over a car with a fine tooth comb, inspect everything, prior to signing.
Not the end of the world though. I'm guessing the previous owner probably backed into something or got tapped from the back, and decided to pay out of pocket instead of go through insurance.
If it was a major repair, they'd likely have gone through insurance. Otherwise, it likely wasn't all that bad.
Yup CPO is basically just confirmation the car has undergone an inspection by the dealer, been detailed inside, large chips in the paint have been touched up and it meets other criteria set by the dealer, ie. under a certain amount of miles and age. It doesn't mean the car is flawless like some people tend to think.
I would say the risk is much lower buying a CPO versus not especially since buyer's of CPO's can also buy extended dealer warranties. Nothing is risk free, I'd prefer a CPO over dealer demo though, the demo's have usually been abused without concern about the break-in period.
I'd bring back to the Acura dealership and see what they say. I know it's been a long time but sometime they will own up to it. Things happen.
And then what? They're not going to buy it back.
It's been ~6 months into OP's ownership, who's to say he didn't damage it and is trying to get repair work done for free?
I bought my car (1 year old with 17k miles on it) from CarMax "without" any accidents/paint work/etc and found out after 2 weeks of ownership (they only have a 3 or 5 day return policy) that the entire rear glass had been shattered (found shards of glass everywhere, that clips had been broken and not replaced, the rear decklid was improperly installed, and the window weld/goop was seeping out from areas it shouldn't have been.
Know what they said? "Sorry, we weren't aware of the issue but we'll give you $150 to have it detailed"
I went through and ripped it all out and got up as much glass as I could, bought replacement OEM clips and have it ~90% to where you can't notice.
My 12 TL was CPO and I did not check closely on the paint on the passenger side door, rear window, and the roof. I signed for the paper work and noticed it under the sun during delivery.
Passenger side door: has the lemon feel on the paint
Roof: deep scratches
Rear window: deep scratches
Told the sales guy and his manager they happily fix the scratch and replaced the rear window.
Old thread I know, but if anyone knows what "Metering" the paint means you can typically pick up fairly cheap paint meters at auto parts stores. Sometimes you can even ask the dealership if they have one when they inspect incoming cars and if they do ask to see a meter inspection performed on the vehicle you are looking at. A dealer that doesn't isn't doing any due diligence. Paint thickness on a meter should be consistent, between 4-6 mils, all over the vehicle. Sometimes you will find hoods are painted thicker due to the heat from the engine though, typically no higher than 8 mils. I purchased a 2009 TL SH-AWD in October after 30 days of looking. I found several for sale, but a lot of clean Carfax reports but paint on the fenders or rear quarter panels measured in the 10-12 mil ranges. I would question the sales people (dealers and private) and they would act like they never knew. Maybe they did, maybe they didn't. My car had never been repainted, and I found the VIN tag on just about every part (except front and rear bumper covers).
You have to buy the right type as well. One will check paint thickness on metal only, while others check paint thickness on any substrate (metal, aluminum, plastic or fiberglass). A good electronic unit can cost several hundreds of dollars, but you can find cheap hand ones for as little as $50 at some stores.
Just wanted to share this information for future reference.
Old thread I know, but if anyone knows what "Metering" the paint means you can typically pick up fairly cheap paint meters at auto parts stores. Sometimes you can even ask the dealership if they have one when they inspect incoming cars and if they do ask to see a meter inspection performed on the vehicle you are looking at. A dealer that doesn't isn't doing any due diligence. Paint thickness on a meter should be consistent, between 4-6 mils, all over the vehicle. Sometimes you will find hoods are painted thicker due to the heat from the engine though, typically no higher than 8 mils. I purchased a 2009 TL SH-AWD in October after 30 days of looking. I found several for sale, but a lot of clean Carfax reports but paint on the fenders or rear quarter panels measured in the 10-12 mil ranges. I would question the sales people (dealers and private) and they would act like they never knew. Maybe they did, maybe they didn't. My car had never been repainted, and I found the VIN tag on just about every part (except front and rear bumper covers).
You have to buy the right type as well. One will check paint thickness on metal only, while others check paint thickness on any substrate (metal, aluminum, plastic or fiberglass). A good electronic unit can cost several hundreds of dollars, but you can find cheap hand ones for as little as $50 at some stores.
Just wanted to share this information for future reference.
Do you have any links for specific models that are accurate in that price range? Last time I looked on Amazon briefly and remember the highly rated ones being $300 to $500+, IIRC
CTNYC: Well, if you really want the best unit it will cost from $200+, I've seen some units in the $1000+ cost range. It all depends on how often you will use it. A lot of small car dealers, ones who buy their cars at auctions, have them on hand. However the one I was referring to is this:
Note that it says magnetic which means it will only test metal substrate. This will not work on bumper covers and other non metallic parts like hoods since some manufacturers use aluminum to manufacture them.
Here is a store on eBay that carries various ones:
I'm surprised at your results on Amazon. did you use the keywords: "coating thickness gauge" or "paint thickness"? Wording can get you different results. Use coating and go to page 3 after filtering "Price: Low to High".
Old thread I know, but if anyone knows what "Metering" the paint means you can typically pick up fairly cheap paint meters at auto parts stores. Sometimes you can even ask the dealership if they have one when they inspect incoming cars and if they do ask to see a meter inspection performed on the vehicle you are looking at. A dealer that doesn't isn't doing any due diligence. Paint thickness on a meter should be consistent, between 4-6 mils, all over the vehicle. Sometimes you will find hoods are painted thicker due to the heat from the engine though, typically no higher than 8 mils. I purchased a 2009 TL SH-AWD in October after 30 days of looking. I found several for sale, but a lot of clean Carfax reports but paint on the fenders or rear quarter panels measured in the 10-12 mil ranges. I would question the sales people (dealers and private) and they would act like they never knew. Maybe they did, maybe they didn't. My car had never been repainted, and I found the VIN tag on just about every part (except front and rear bumper covers).
You have to buy the right type as well. One will check paint thickness on metal only, while others check paint thickness on any substrate (metal, aluminum, plastic or fiberglass). A good electronic unit can cost several hundreds of dollars, but you can find cheap hand ones for as little as $50 at some stores.
Just wanted to share this information for future reference.
mine has a rough finish in the bumper the naked eye cannot tell but you have to rub your finger across to discover it
This sounds like over spray, so it's possible someone did repair work then didn't properly blend the paint to smooth it out. It's possible someone can correct this by simply buffing the car out with a polishing compound, but I would seek advice from someone who can inspect it to confirm what the cause is. Depends on if you want to correct it or not, but from the fact that no one can really notice, one would question if it is worth it.
I would like to add that I have noticed a lot of conversation on the topic of bumper covers for these vehicles, clear bras, that you can put on these cars to protect the paint finish on the bumpers, hood, mirror and so forth (I even looked at some vehicles that had them installed). However, the alternative to some is just to pay a shop to repaint the bumper if the damage gets too severe because it is relatively cheap (some quoted $200-300). So it's possible that even the OPs vehicle was just touched up due to this. I have even seen some who have had just the rocker panel cracked from speed bumps and so forth and they get those replaced and repainted. Going back to using a paint meter, you can actually meter heavily along the edges between two parts (i.e. front bumper cover and fender) and you may find higher levels of paint thickness due to the need to blend the paint finish in. One should really understand how to use the tool before using it, and an experienced user would be a car salesman's nightmare.
just my
With that said, every manufacturer has a paint standard which outlines what defects are acceptable and unacceptable. Within these standards it outlines how to check for paint defects. I know where I work the standard is that you check for finished paint quality by viewing the object at a 90° angle under 100 ft. candles of light and stand between 1.2±0.1 meters from the part. I'm in the construction products business, and automotive is considered more strict that we are, so I would expect better quality.
Still have to agree though, all CPO means is that they looked at the car, cleaned it really nice (vacuum, carpet clean and touched up paint), checked to make sure any recalls or service letters were completed, did any required maintenance and included a warranty. I believe Acura provides a 7 year 100,000 mile warranty with most of their CPOs (at least in the US). The car is still not perfect, but it's better than most used cars that simply get an oil change. Then again, it all depends on how honest the dealer is....seems dealers are the most unethical businesses at times.
CTNYC: Well, if you really want the best unit it will cost from $200+, I've seen some units in the $1000+ cost range. It all depends on how often you will use it. A lot of small car dealers, ones who buy their cars at auctions, have them on hand. However the one I was referring to is this:
Note that it says magnetic which means it will only test metal substrate. This will not work on bumper covers and other non metallic parts like hoods since some manufacturers use aluminum to manufacture them.
Here is a store on eBay that carries various ones:
I'm surprised at your results on Amazon. did you use the keywords: "coating thickness gauge" or "paint thickness"? Wording can get you different results. Use coating and go to page 3 after filtering "Price: Low to High".
Ah - thanks for the information. I don't have a use for it regularly, just whenever I decide to buy a used car over a new one (really depends on if I can "steal" a new car off a dealer lot or not tbh). Maybe would use it anywhere from once a year to once every 3 years, which is why I couldn't justify spending several hundred on a unit.
I believe the search term I used on amazon was something like "paint meter" and looked at the first page or two. Didn't do any real research , but was interested in how much they cost after finding out my 2010 TL was in an accident/wrecked.
I bought a CPO and noticed a vibration on braking within the first week. Took out the CPO 140+ inspection list I saw that they also noticed the issue during the certification process. So I took the car back to Acura. Was told yes the techs noticed the vibration but did not do anything about it. I kid you not.
Dealer resurfaced my front rotors. Vibration was 75% less but 3 weeks later returned again. Rather then waste my time at the dealer again and have them re- resurface and take away more from the rotor surface, I invested in stop tech slotted rotors and new brake pads. Did the install myself and have absolutely no more vibration. total cost = under $350 for 4 rotors and pads.
CPO 150+ inspection can also be a hit or miss. They don't really care as much as I thought they would. The lesson I learnt was when buying CPO, shoot for mileage under 15000 to really get the close to new car feel. Now after 6 months, my tires are showing little cracks in the sidewall.
I bought a CPO and noticed a vibration on braking within the first week. Took out the CPO 140+ inspection list I saw that they also noticed the issue during the certification process. So I took the car back to Acura. Was told yes the techs noticed the vibration but did not do anything about it. I kid you not.
Dealer resurfaced my front rotors. Vibration was 75% less but 3 weeks later returned again. Rather then waste my time at the dealer again and have them re- resurface and take away more from the rotor surface, I invested in stop tech slotted rotors and new brake pads. Did the install myself and have absolutely no more vibration. total cost = under $350 for 4 rotors and pads.
CPO 150+ inspection can also be a hit or miss. They don't really care as much as I thought they would. The lesson I learnt was when buying CPO, shoot for mileage under 15000 to really get the close to new car feel. Now after 6 months, my tires are showing little cracks in the sidewall.
Also really depends on the dealership - Some are far better with what they put on their lots than others... Some will do everything needed such as putting on new brakes, tires, timing belt, and even hood supports while others will just give it a nice detail...
Not sure how much I agree with aiming for under 15k miles - There are so many variables (ie could be a former loaner, had many issues so previous owner sold it, was abused because owner knew it won't be theirs for long, etc) Not saying it's a bad idea, but just putting it out there that some cars with 10k miles will be in really crappy condition while others with 60k miles will be in excellent condition. When I was buying my TL, the 2010 w/ 85k-ish miles was in far better condition than the 2013-2014 off lease models with 20k to 30k miles that I initially went to the dealership to look at.
CPO is marketing nonsense so far as I can tell. Unless it means you are getting an extended warranty or something else substantial.
Acura's CPO program does come with an extended warranty--12,000 miles/one year from the date of purchase or added to the any remaining new car warranty. It also extends the powertrain warranty to 7 years/100,000 miles from 6 years/70,000 miles.
Also really depends on the dealership - Some are far better with what they put on their lots than others... Some will do everything needed such as putting on new brakes, tires, timing belt, and even hood supports while others will just give it a nice detail...
Not sure how much I agree with aiming for under 15k miles - There are so many variables (ie could be a former loaner, had many issues so previous owner sold it, was abused because owner knew it won't be theirs for long, etc) Not saying it's a bad idea, but just putting it out there that some cars with 10k miles will be in really crappy condition while others with 60k miles will be in excellent condition. When I was buying my TL, the 2010 w/ 85k-ish miles was in far better condition than the 2013-2014 off lease models with 20k to 30k miles that I initially went to the dealership to look at.
I can completely agree with you here. Sometimes it helps if you can view the CarFax and Autocheck prior to ever looking at the vehicle to see what kind of service it had. I passed another 09 TL SH-AWD that was visually in almost perfect shape, but the CarFax showed a lot of repairs at the dealer for electrical issues. The independant dealer bought it at an auction, which he wouldn't admit to because he said it wasn't on the CarFax but it was on the Autocheck, and I just didn't feel comfortable with it. I ended up with one with 10,000 miles more and it didn't have a clear bra or the side molding, but it was serviced regularly and always had work performed at Acura/Honda dealers. Besides this Takata recall issue, I don't have much complaints. The alternator did start to go but that was an easy and pretty affordable fix.
05-12-2016, 07:52 AM
