Just wondering..I have a 04 TL 6 speed which I love but the new TL in certain colors is growing on me. I love the interior and recognize the exterior can be modifies slightly so I love that too..however I dont want the price of the AWD 6 speed. I can afford the base tech. Anyone switch from manual to auto ?

 

I was loyal to a manual transmission (21 years). Switched to an automatic and never looked back. Do I miss it - sometimes but rarely - day to day driving (mostly commuting) I find the automatic to be better suited for that.

When I get my toy car it will of course be manual.

My 2 cents.

 

I have been driving manual shift cars(71&74 merc. Capris, 69 datsun 510, 86 vw gti, 90 BMW 535, 99 BMW 540) since the late 1970's until august when I bought my '10 tl-shawd. There are times when I wish for the connection you have with the car that only a manual provides, but for my increasingly clogged around town commute, the auto is better. I'll give it another year or so, and if I still miss shifting, I trade for the 6 spd. I kind of doubt I will though. More likely, I will get a fun weekend car with a manual.

 

i have an automatic granted its a 3g, but i regret it almost everyday not going for the 6mt

 

I switched over to an automatic on another car I once owned. They did not have any with MT left. I personally regretted it. All the vehicles I have owned after that car have manual transmission. If I lived in a conjested area with lots of traffic them maybe I would want automatic.

 

I learned to drive on a stick, owned several...however,living in areas like DC and hanging out in Philly, NY, and the ATL...auto works for me. A stick would be nice as a weekender vehicle, but that's about it for me. The 0-6 and mpg of new automatics make the difference near negligible, yeah there is that rush you get from shifting, but back to the reality of city driving, auto.

 

I live in a congested area and I wish for a manual every time I'm in the car

Would a used SH-AWD be an option?

 

I moved from auto to stick on my 2010 TL and I love it. I live in Boston and the city driving isn't bad at all. I've had my car now for over a year at I still love it as much as when I got it. No regrets from getting a MT car. I can totally understand people who don't like it, I feel like if I had an AT DD, I would need a weekend/summer car that was MT.

 

^^Agree. The clutch and transmission feel on the 4G are so smooth and low effort, traffic is not really a big issue for me.

My last MT wasn't as smooth and required more effort. There were days when I wanted an AT. I'm happy I resisted that temptation.

 

i believe the 6mt 4g has like hill assist too, so it'll pretty much be stress free driving stick, even in traffic it should be no big deal

 

Yup - it sure does. It makes driving and starting on hills incredibly easy. I love that feature.

 

What does the hill assist do?

 

Hill assist engages the brakes on a set degree of incline/decline and above until you hit the gas pedal, so when you come off the clutch on steep inclines the car doesn't roll fowards or backwards. I think this takes away the hardest part of driving manuals for the beginner and most drivers new to stick could get around much easier vs the traditional way and method. Of course it's still a good idea to know how to keep the car steady without it.

 

It will engage the brake when you start in 1st gear on a hill with a high enough incline (high enough that you would roll back significantly). So you can put the gear in 1st with the clutch disengaged, take your foot off the brake and you will not roll back. Basically gives you enough time to give the gas and engage the clutch before rolling back.

Edit - What he said.

 

ooh i see, that really does help. My dad forced me to learn by taking a beater 5spd accord up a abandoned house's driveway (on a hill) and left me there and told me to get it right without using the parking brake. I learned.. lol

I had no idea the TL 6mt had this feature, this was something that made me hate stick shift through bad experiences. (For example, being the first at a turn signal and stalling because you're afraid of being too close to the car behind you, then having all 6+ cars behind you honk relentlessly until you start the car again and turn. Or being in a parking structure and the person behind you is constantly inching forward. Or simply being in slow bumper to bumper traffic.

I may want to test drive a 6mt after all hmm...

Any idea how long it actually holds the brake for? Would this effectively prevent the car for rolling backwards in all circumstances?

 

you guys said everything I feared. I will regret going to a manual. I remember going from a 5 speed honda civic..to a automatic CL. I just thought the CL was the coolest car, loved the interior, the overall car. But I ultimately sold it for a 6 speed TL. I dont think I will make that mistake again. I will have to look towards a used SH AWD or an 08 TL type S 6 speed.

 

silver you should definitely test drive an SHAWD 6MT TL.

SHAWD is pretty nifty, no torque steer, etc. I miss it :\

btw i just found this from the CR-Z's page:
"The CR-Z 6-speed manual includes the hill start assist feature. When the driver releases the brake to activate the throttle pedal, hill start assist maintains brake pressure for about 1.5 seconds to prevent the CR-Z from unintentionally rolling backward until the driver is ready. The system releases brake pressure when engine torque increases, allowing a smooth and controllable drive-away. The system does not operate when the transmission is in reverse."

That's pretty great! 1.5 seconds (or sense of torque) is more than enough!

 

The hill assist is a nice feature - BUT - it takes a bit of time for a well-seasoned MT driver to adjust to. I've been driving my 2010 6MT for about 9 weeks now, and am still a little off on the timing when starting from a stop on a hill. A dozen+ years of only driving MTs will do that to ya!

Another comment on the 6MT...I've driven mostly American/German MTs in the past (save for a sweet 1989 Legend!). The clutch engagement on late-model HMC transmissions is a little bit different. I've seen it described as "uncertain" elsewhere, which I don't think is fair, but there might be a calibration period if you're coming from another maker.

 

The TL's is a bit more advanced as it works in reverse as well for those times when you need to back out of a steep driveway, etc. The 1.5 second max engagment sounds about right, that's likely the same but I'm not sure.

 

I'm not 100% sure. the 1.5 second number is probably accurate. Whatever the time, its more than enough to get on the gas and have enough torque to overcome gravity.


Spot on. You nailed it on the hill assist. It's definitely a bit tricky to get used to. It's nice to have, but sometimes it causes a bit of a jerky start.

I love the fact that the clutch takeup is short (or so it feels to me), but there is a bit of "feeling" in the catch point where it doesn't feel like it's catching at the exact same spot every time. It's a very minor feel, and I felt like I became used to it after a few weeks.

All in all, it's really a fantastic car and transmission. I've told my wife that the only car I would ever sell this one for is an e90 M3 (and if things go my way next year I may do just that). But if not, I'll be happy to keep this for the next 10+ years

 

^Can someone confirm: The hill assist on my TL does not appear to always function over an incline. As mentioned above, the incline has to be over a certain angle before the hill start assist kicks in.

My TL still rolls back on some minor and moderate inclines, but on "major inclines" I can definitely feel the hill assist working (e.g. the car does not roll back for 1-2 seconds).

 

You have to come to a complete stop with the brakes applied, it will then hold in both first or reverse for about 1.5 seconds. It will not work if you have not stopped completely.

 

Hehe

I've been debating on whether to try the German route, but horror stories of repairs/repeated shop trips have prevented me from doing so in the past (ie. 335xi HPFP failures, rampant Audi repairs).

I gotta admit though, a small part of me wants to try that "German Urge" For me, the 911, RS4, and the e90 M3 pops up in my mind, esp the 911. IMHO, the 911 is the epitome of classic design, power, handling, driver's comfort, and exudes an image of "I made it."

Gotta resist, gotta resist (or at least when I become an empty nester) ....

 

Yes. On the inclines I have written above, I am completely stopped, gear in neutral, and right foot on the brake (and left foot resting and off the clutch).

As soon as clutch in, and take my right foot off the brake and gas in, I either roll back or do not (which I noticed it usually happen only when I'm a very very steep incline).

 

Not sure how reliable the source is, but this place (http://www.topspeed.com/cars/car-new...n-ar64455.html) says:

"The TL SH-AWD® 6MT has a specially calibrated Hill Start Assist system that helps prevent the vehicle from rolling backwards when the driver switches from the brake to the accelerator while stopped on a hill. When the road incline exceeds an 8-degree threshold and the vehicle is fully stopped, Hill Start Assist automatically activates. When Hill Start Assist is active, the brakes automatically hold for one second as the driver’s foot transitions from the brake to the accelerator pedal. The brakes are automatically released when the vehicle begins to move forward."

Sounds about right. 8 degrees is about 1 foot of vertical drop for 12 horizontal feet.

 

The Hill Assist feature seems really nice. Although I always took pride in how I could easily start on a hill while driving a manual transmission. I always saw it as an opportunity to demonstrate real skill driving a MT. I knew I had mastered the manual transmission back when I was 16-17 when I had to back up a hill and parallel park in a very tight spot.

 

Actually - the only BMW I would ever get is the M3 or M5, at least while they both have a NA v8 or v10. I guess that is going away in 2012 or 2013, so I'm going to need to make sure I get one before then. I'm also too worried about the reliability of the turbo'd bmw's (and the rest are too slow). 911 GT3 is going to be my "i'm done paying for kids college" car.

Anyway - back on topic. Try to see if you can find a used or demo 6MT TL out there. While there are not many that were made, I'm sure after a year someone got sick of it or never warmed up to the exterior and traded it in. Or wait till the 2012's come out and i'm sure someone will trade in and leave a used 6MT on the lot.

 

I have the 3G TL.

Took the 2010 out for a test drive earlier this year. If you miss standard, put it into sport mode and use the paddle shifts, I had fun with that.

 

Guys, I always thought hill assist turned off when the car sensed the clutch was released a certain percentage. The reason I don't believe it is timed is because I was at a stop on a hill once (with nobody behind me) and took my foot off the brake with the clutch still in, and just sat for a while (over 3 seconds it felt like) just to see if it was a timed thing or not. I did not roll backwards until I gave it gas and let the clutch out enough.

 

Hmm, I thought it was when there was enough torque given my the gas pedal to allow forward motion before the brakes let go. I wonder what the mechanics behind it are...
I feel like I would have a smoother takeoff (with a tiny rollback) if hill assist was not there, but really appreciate it for those steep hills.

 

Logically is should turn off when gas is applied right? Otherwise if the clutch was being released and the car in gear but with no gas it would just stall?

It doesn't seem to make sense to detect clutch movement?

 

Switched from a heavily modded 03 CL 6 Speed to the 09 TL SH-AWD Auto. S2000 in the garage for when I'm feeling "shifty". The Auto trans is moody. Sometimes you stomp and it goes, other times it just kind of hangs out. Sport mode if you're wanting to drive like a maniac usually does the trick.

I don't miss clutching the daily in traffic.

 

I don't miss it either. I had a problem with Grace when I stomped on the gas with her, but I switched to Shell gas and she gets the message quickly, roll out!