Bayam0n

4G type-s? will it be made?

and also, is Acura sticking with the look for another 4 years? I know that's what they typically do, but does anyone know of any significant changes to the body in the oncomming years?

I tried searching, with no luck.

TechnoCat

"Type S" is usually "Sport"; the 2010 TL SH-AWD 6MT HPT pretty much already qualifies; It's faster than most performance cars at 5.6 to 60 usually tested, the gears are pretty close-ratio, and it's appropriately low. Think of it as a "Type S(H-AWD)", or more Type-S'y than a Type-S. For a Type-R (Racing), they should put the guts into a CRX. (Keep in mind the TL has more backseat space than an S4 and about the same as a 535. This isn't a coupe and at 3889 pounds, you can't make it act like one.)

So just out of curiousity, what would you add to the 3.7L 305bph 2010 TL SH-AWD 6MT (with 19" HPT) to turn it into a Type-S?

Ramrodthrusterpuppy

I hoping so!

For starters...350-ish HP, adjustable shocks (like Konis), 6 SPD short throw shifter, 19" wheels but a different style than the HPT....apart from the engine, all relatively easy bolt on parts. I'd also include some "throwback" styling cues to the 3G TL-S..smoked black chrome light bezels, dual round exhaust twin tips, two tone seats, etc...

OK...someone needs to do a photo chop concept!

princelybug

iTrader: (16)

I HOPE they come out with a Type-S, AND change the body style as well. Possibly a MMC?

JM2010 SH-AWD

Technocat makes a good point. Look at the Car & Driver numbers for this car and compare to other "performance cars."

One that has near-identical acceleration numbers is the 2010 NISMO 370Z! And the skid pad numbers are not much different from the C&D numbers for the 19 HPT SH-AWD auto.

The only sedans appreciably better are those that cost 10-50K more.

This thing scoots.

Pete2010

Honestly, why let Acura do what you will probably eventually do to it and have it cost much less.

If you put in additional intake, high flow cat, jpipe, cat back exhaust, springs, koni's, you're own HPT (which will be better tires than OEM). You're way ahead of what the "type-s" would be.

I think this is as "Type-S" as it's going to be. I would be interested to see if they do a body change, most likely it's just going to be an updated grille... maybe looking like the ZDX. But anyone thinking they're going away from the forward thinking style they are known for is long mistaken who they're dealing with.

Ramrodthrusterpuppy

Because Acura will engineer it all to work together as a cohesive unit and warranty it.

I don't think that body changes are in the cards until the next gen. Even a simple grill change would be a costly retool, and Acura ain't selling a ton of these things as it is to make that economically viable.

Bayam0n

I just saw the 4gen today, white with smoked Rims. I gotta day, it didn't look half bad, still hate the grill.

As far as making it "type-s"y... I would like to see the quad exhaust, a grill change (odviously, and SIDE NOTE, the type-s 3gen is about an inch longer then base, I assume from the grill difference), better set of wheels, 100 more horse's (it could challenge the IS-F and M3 sedan which would be a dream), make a COUPE option, you know, I would also like to see a "signature" headlight, you know like audi and BMW.

anyone else have good ideas for a 4gen type-s?

mugen_kid

They better bring a Type-S to the table, Why not? The last two generations have had Type-S models, I don't think they would stop now. If they are smart and want to compete with the other Luxury brand models like the M(BMW), F(Lexus), S(Audi) they will need to do something. I would be very disappointed if this is all we get. The 4G will be my next car and im waiting to see what happens. I will be very satisfied either way it goes. The TL 6-Speed is a excellent car and I would be more then happy to be an owner. Just crossing my fingers for a Type-S!!

BLACKURA_NY

iTrader: (6)

Of course there will be a type-s.... When....? I would say in Late Summer/Fall 2011 for a 2012-2013 Model

It will have a similar trend in upgrades.... They will take a fully loaded SH-AWD and add

- New/Updated Headlights
- New/Updated Taillights
- New/Updated Grille & Trime
- New/Updated Seats
- New Wheels
- 25-30 more hp only (highly doubt a 400hp model)
- Probably a sportier suspension



AND of course an added price tag. Expect the MSRP of a Type-S to be around $3k-$5k more then the a current fully loaded 4G


Also, i really doubt for a RWD V8 or V6 F/I platform. They will most likely the current J37 engine, and make performance upgrades to it (higher flowing exhaust, lighter cams, etc...)

Just my guess tho.. history usually repeats itself

BoostLover

Formula for Type-S: the reliable addition of a positive displacement supercharger that helps create 250 ft-lbs of torque from 1500 RPM to 6500 RPM. At all 4 wheels.

Everything else need not change.

http://www.quattroworld.com/wp-conte...s_sae_all1.gif

ggesq

iTrader: (1)

I'm still waiting for the 6AT to make it down the pipeline. Maybe the S model? Who knows.....?

Pete2010

They have that in the ZDX correct? Seems like they could easily move that to the next version of the 4g?

George Knighton

A lot would have to change. To be honest, I think that more than minor tweaking to the J37 is going to be risky. You guys know what your compression ratio is? :-)

The 5AT just isn't enough for the J37 in combination with SH-AWD.

When you first drive the 5AT TL, you walk away thinking, the gear ratios aren't quite right, or it needs another gear or two.

But after you've driven the 6-6 TL, you realise that the 5AT is a handicap and should be replaced with a unique version of the 6AT as soon as the supply catches up.

Bayam0n

I think Acura should Defenitly get into the 400hp range by now. I mean it took them WAY too long to get the TL to hit 300hp , they should man- up and put a beefy V8 into the mix and start the real competition with the euro cars (unless they can pull off 400hp with a V6 like the nissan gtr, which can do 485hp) I think they have enough of a following in America to get ppl to purchase it. and it would be WAY cheaper than the Euro models, IMO. think about it, a base BMW 5 series costs more then a TL type-s in 2008!?!?! W...T...F.....

KeithL

My fear is they keep pricing the TL higher and higher! Rumoured "Advance" package next ear I supposed will add $1K-$2K then add a Type-S and add another $3K+ that starts putting the TL closer to $50K and at that point I like the new M37 much better or an Audi A4 or dare I say a BMW 3. And let's not forgoet there is a group of people that can't see a "higher end" car justified as FWD, especially a sporty one. The only one I can think of is the ES350 and that and sporty are never used in same sentence. Every other competitor is RWD or AWD.
I think the 2 things hurting their sales is the styling first and the increased price point. They clearly are not going to make radical styling changes so if they keep pushing up the price they will only attract the true loyalists. Now one therory is the TL will quickly displace the RL and they will push the TSX into the TL spot (hell it is already there with the V6). And one thing that annoys me is how come the TL lost noise cancellation and the TSX picked it up?

TechnoCat

They should man up? What other 3800-pound AWD luxury 4D sedans spank the TL in performance within $15K of the price?

Your AcuraZine "garage" is empty; How about you man-up and tell us about the last, oh, say, three $50K+ sedans you've purchased, since that's around where these enhancements would land it? Or how many $40K+ sedans you've purchased in the last decade? Is your opinion one of enthusiasm or might they actually sell you a pricier car? Who would buy a $50K Acura anyhow?

Not to be snotty really. I just object to the "man up" phrase in this context considering so few other large 4D AWD sedans at any price come close.

jspagna1

I hope the TL doesn't hit the $50 Grand+ range or else they will price it out of what I would be willing to spend. I mean right now a fully loaded TL will cost you like $46 Grand.
And how much HP do you need for a Luxury car? And where are you going to be able to take advantage of that HP? I think 300+ HP is plenty for a street car.

On another note, I was actually suprised that the 2009 Maxima did not hit the 300 HP mark since the G37 is up to like 326 or so?

George Knighton

There's a small V8 and a Mugen V10. The V10 is basically on the shelf for a while, because of the lack of economic viability in the United States market.

The V8 is being campaigned in a number of racing series and is likely to make it into a production car in the not too distant future.

winstrolvtec

The amount of enthusiasts who cry for V8, RWD, and 400 HP compared to the number of consumers who actually purchase any of these products doesn't even make it worth the R&D and production costs, with exception to RWD in proper demographics. Honda/Acura does a good job of hitting the major markets with their model trims yet somehow they are perceived as a lesser brand because they're conservative but smarter.

The average enthusiast might admire BMW for having so many models available in RWD and with V8, all of them with available M trims, but the sad reality is BMW barely posted a profit for 09 globally and the majority of these so called enthusiasts can't even afford an entry 3 series.

That's not to say they won't do something like this but it will be strictly in the form of a sports coupe like an NSX or sub NSX successor first before they even think about doing that on anything else.

For now the most we could see is a rear biased SH with a small V8 like a 4.0L. I expect Acura to stick to it's NA roots and apply a new J series with DI and a DOHC that could carry it for 330-350 HP. That takes the place of a V8 and any need for FI, which will sacrifice reliability. Combine that with the new 6MT and upcoming 6AT, plus possible variants of SH AWD and they have a very bright future of performance capable vehicles.

Ramrodthrusterpuppy

S4...you can get a base S4 with the Sport Diff for within about $8K of the TL AWD. And the S4 will best the TL in 0-60 and the 1/4....although not by much.

400 HP V8s in the TL are a pipe dream....unless they throw a V8 in the Accord. :P

BoostLover

Yes, I should have qualified my statement that FI cannot just be bolted on. It would have to be correctly engineered; the pistons/rods/crank/head gasket would all have to be tweaked to lower the static and dynamic compression ratio.

Intercooling, fuel delivery, heat management, and reliability considerations would also have to be addressed.

I just love forced induction and the low end torque it can produce).

kevTL888

i own a 4G TL but i'm not afraid to say it, i will not spend over $35k on a front wheel drive sedan with an ancient 5 speed auto no matter how advance the technologies pack it into that car. Acura should stop with this high tech advance movement, instead, they should concentrate on the basic components of a car, such as developing a more efficient and more powerful direct inject engine, getting rid of that 5 speed auto. but even if they made all those changes, i still will not fork out anything over 35k for it as long as it's still a FWD. now flame suit on.

draph

Have you folks visited sites like Temple of V-TEC? Acura is now going in the direction of "smart luxury", which means they are drifting away from politically incorrect (in current green society) product plans like V8 RLs and NSX replacements.

A Type-S will show up if it is a necessity to compete in the market; and, if it does, it will likely be a DI iteration of the J37 that gives a 20 or so hp boost with same or better fuel economy. ...or perhaps drop back to 3.5 or 3 liters with DI and light duty turbo (along the approach of BMW 335 turbo, but, hopefully more reliably). They might go DOHC VTEC, but all that seems to do is give more hp at screaming rpms (DOHC allows better optimization for engine breathing at high rpms); but, I must admit seeing Honda offering a mass market V6 with an 8000+ redline is intriguing (not seen since the pricey NSX).

Forced induction on smaller displacement give the nice broad torque curve everyone loves (because you can enjoy it on the streets more often than the screamer rpm hp).

The tradition of Type S seems more of an incremental improvement over non S - I never thought of the difference along the same lines as M on BMW or AMG on Mercedes. If Acura did "advance" the Type S to that extreme, then a TL over 50K would still fit in as a bargain over RS4, M3, and CTS-V that push or exceed 60K when optioned up. Unfortunately, I've had trouble convincing myself 40K is sane to pay for a fun to drive transportation appliance that rapidly depreciates.

kevTL888

you didn't just compare an American built FWD souped up Accord with RS4, M3 and CTS-V did you? you forgot about the C63AMG, btw.

YetiTL

Well, I'm not the OP but I think he might be on something. LEt's look at the reality here for a sec. A loaded M3 will cost 85-90k in Canada plus sales tax, CTS-V will be 70-75kish and my current TL is 50kish. We can't just hopw Acura will provide us with a 400hp+, 6MT with all the gizmos, bells, whistles and fairies without substantially increasing the price, which will lend such a «super type-S TL» in the price territory of the said M3,RS4, CTS-V.

I think most of us should be realistic: the TL is a very nice sport sedans but it's not a supercar or an exotic car...we can dream but it'll be just that: dreams.

Now, if they could make a new modern NSX with DI, 6MT, RWD-biased SH-AWD, etc...that would be cool but how many they would sell?? 500 per year? 1 000? And for how much? That brings us back to the basic question of cost vs. market share vs. price point. The higher price point seems to be hurting sales right now so I'm all for a type-S being available as long as the regular TL price don't move too much.

I love my 5AT SH-AWD TL and I'm fully aware that's it's missing a gear but for now, I'm sitcking with it and I'll mod it to my liking. I'll see what the futur hold for us TL drivers...

jspagna1

I read an interesting article from Car and Driver on the web and here were some of the excerpts from the article about the 2011 M37 & M56.....
************************************************** ******
We sampled a couple of engineering prototypes recently in California, hitting the road first in an M56. Powered by a heavily modified, direct-injected version of the 5.6-liter V-8 truck engine found in the QX56, the Nissan Armada, and the Titan pickup—but making 420 horsepower and 417 pound-feet of torque—the M56 both replaces the 325-hp M45 and becomes the most powerful vehicle in Infiniti’s lineup. Unfortunately, from our first standing-start launch, we were let down by the prototype’s lack of off-the-line enthusiasm, as if 50 to 75 horses and pound-feet were lost somewhere between paper and pavement. A passionless exhaust note was equally disappointing.

Far more refined was an M37x prototype, powered by a 330-hp, 3.7-liter V-6 with 270 pound-feet of torque, more or less identical to that found under the hood of the G37, and fitted with all-wheel drive (as is the M56x). As with its smaller FM-platform mate, the V-6 and its accompanying seven-speed automatic are a smart match. The M37’s lower weight and delightfully natural steering—especially compared with the M56 Sport’s four-wheel-steering system that varies the steering ratio and can turn the rear wheels in the same direction as the fronts by as much as one degree—made it our favorite by far.
************************************************** ******
From reading this comparison, more HP doesn't necessarily mean a better/fun car!

almostatlowner

It sure would be nice to see the TL get a bump in hp, or at the very least DI. The G37 I believe will best the TL in 0-60 and 1/4mi. It also comes in a few thousand cheaper. But, no awd/6spd manual combo, and I'm not crazy about the looks, especially with those little 225 tires!

This article would be sweet, but it's just a pipe dream. Even if it were true, it'd push the TL well over $50k.

unlemming

That article talks about a V8 option, which is pretty unrealistic, but doesn't even say 6AT instead of the 5AT, which is completely doable.

jspagna1

I think the most your going to pull is like 350 HP. And it better be AWD because you are going to get some serious torque steer out of the car if it's a FWD car.
Itr's hard enough to keep my Maxima with 255 HP from going crazy up the street!
That is what I think is making Subaru a popular car. It's pulling 300 HP with AWD and beating the crap out of 5.0 Mustangs (Stock).

kevTL888

Acura will never be a premium brand like Lexus or even Infiniti until they start to import some JDM models over here. the TLs are too similar to their Honda counterpart, that not many ppl are willing to pay over 40k for those cars. i'm not familiar with Honda's JDM lineup but why not bring some mid sized sedan over here and soup it up a little bit just like Infiniti does with Nissan's Fuga, they turn that into their M.

winstrolvtec

I think the reason Acura tried to do away with that is because it was one of the main reason why most didn't think or feel like it was a true luxury brand in the first place. Although, when you trace their history, they didn't really do any more rebadging than any other Japanese brand, in fact I believe they did less. The perceived problem lies in the global platform sharing and for whatever reason people feeling like it's somehow less but if nobody ever told them then I doubt anyone would ever really know the difference.

The outcome is always a totally different car with different capablities, in any case and on all levels. This is far from a bad thing cause the platform is always a damn good one from the start but because many times it gets implemented on the Accord first or the larger production numbers come from the Accord people assume it's a Honda or Accord platform which is not necessarily true. The reason the Accord has been so successful over the years and it has been a C&D 10 best more than any other car ever is because it's built from a platform that is actually designed for luxury and performance use first.

Acura was also the first Japanese luxury brand to ever be introduced, so people better recognize the relationship between Honda and Acura than they do Infiniti with Nissan and Lexus with Toyota. This is true even today but the reality is Acura now has an almost entirely exclusive NA lineup. Why Infiniti and Lexus are peceived as more of a premium line, when for the most part they truly are just Toyota and Nissan rebadges, is beyond me.

George Knighton

There aren't any exclusively JDM cars that would lend themselves well to the North American market to boost Acura.

Acura is really an American brand for Americans.

In Japan and Malaysia, you find people jealous of the SH-AWD TL and wishing they could get them, or they import them and pay a lot of money to use them in their homelands.

There's not a lot of difference between the Honda Legend and the Acura RL.

I cannot think of anything that would do them any good to bring into North America.

George Knighton

For whatever this is worth, there were two platforms that were shelved due to the poor economic climate and changes in buying profiles in the United States.

One was a rear-bias SH-AWD NSX-type car, and one was a rear-bias SH-AWD Legend-type car.

There is a small V8 still in testing and racing, and the Mugen V10 is still on the shelves.

I think that if they were proceeding with these projects right now with a view toward putting them on the streets quickly, they would just be wasting design and research monies that should be going toward the safety programmes and the green programmes.

They just want to build reasonable performance luxury cars for people who think about what they are doing and people who enjoy driving. They do not intend to build the ultimate of any kind of car.

Infiniti, Lexus and Audi will have cars at a higher end market than Acura are willing to tackle for a while.

If you're in here posting about your 4G TL, it is very hard to believe that you would consider purchasing an LS460 even if you had the money sitting in the bank.

And it's equally difficult to believe that you'd buy an NSX right now even if you saw one in the dealer showroom.

I'm projecting my own feelings and circumstances onto the rest of the population of Acurazine, but I think I am probably correct. :-)

TechnoCat

Many of us remember the early Integra and Legend. The Legend was alright, but didn't sell real well. Meanwhile the Integra was no more luxurious than many other cars; even though it wasn't based on the Accord, it seemed like a Prelude-level Accord - a nice hatch with a 4-banger.

That's the mistake Honda made. It wasn't that, as you say, they were the first luxo-japanese brand but that they didn't really differentiate enough.

The TL is still kind of like that. It's a nicely equipped car, but anyone who has lived in an Audi, BMW or Mercedes will instantly recognize the finishing gap. It doesn't even aspire to the same level.

winstrolvtec

^ I agree, but the point was in comparison to other Japanese luxury brands not Germans. In this regard, Acura actually does a better job of differentiating it's luxury brand.

As far as comparing Acura to the other luxury brands, it's success comes from a totally different philosophy of making cars and doing business. When you look at "luxury" in another way, German brands don't aspire to the same level of reliability, therefore resale and Acura has a stronger commitment to safety across it's entire lineup while being a cheaper more affordable product, especially when equally equipped. Some of which, like the MDX, RL, and ZDX, are arguably better than the luxury standards set by it's competitors and the rest of it's lineup is highly competitive.

It comes down to what you prefer your vehicle to be and have and how much you are willing to spend on it. That's why many German fans and enthusiasts still buy Acuras.

Ramrodthrusterpuppy

Not at all. Lexus, and to a lesser extent Infiniti; do a far better job of marketing their luxury brands.

Agreed.
I think the major problem has been Acura's inability to do that, which is why the general populace sees them as tarted up Hondas.

Bayam0n

dude calm down, your going to question me cause I don't have anything in my "garage"... take it easy, I know your probably proud you have a garage full of your cars pictures and what not. I just better things to do, I came to acurazine just to talk about cars and get some mods done by JnC.

I've had a Audi A8, then it got stolen. My parents been driving Audi since I was born so, I know a little bit about the luxury Sedan Brand (two Audi A4's , Audi Q7 (present),Lexus IS 300 and I think my father used to own a mustang)
and now my wife and I have BMW 5 series, and the 3g TL.

And I would buy a 50K acura, if it looked good and had 400hp... I hate BMW, no ofense. I think the BMW 535 has 300 hp and I THINK is 50k, 10k more then the TL.

winstrolvtec

Marketing is fair point but it is another dicussion altogether. It's fine that they are viewed as just tarted up because that is in all reality what any luxury division of a pre-existing brand actually is.

The fact is most Acura products have an independent market and are actually created under the brand exclusively, as opposed to most of the current gen Lexus line, which was still sold under the Toyota name up until 3-4 years ago and the Infiniti line, which is just a Japanese market Nissan, rebadged for the states.

So it is one thing to be tarted up, any premium line of any product will be, it is another to not really be tarted up at all because it's not actually a part of a premium line, instead it's a true rebadge.

Ramrodthrusterpuppy

I hear ya....but that's my point. A big part of it is the perception which is what Lexus, in particular, has been very adept at doing with their marketing. And marketing is what gets people in the showrooms in the first place. IMO Acura has always had an image problem...they were never quite sure what they wanted the brand to be and consequently have never backed it up as much as they should have. I think that is slowly changing but may be too late....we'll see.