012TL-GLM

Well well, I can't believe I've had this car this long already. Figured it was time for a solid review.

The car is a 2012 TL SH-AWD w/tech package (AT) - very few mods - 35% tint/rear roof spoiler/painted front grill/K&N air filter. Bought brand new still in the plastic with I believe 3 miles on the ODO from Muller Acura in Hoffman Estates, IL

Cons

Stock Michelin's - these tires are terrible, I don't know where the people live and drive that write such glowing reviews online but they are unacceptable for the price. The $120 Conti DWS I ran on my Avalon blew these tires away in every regard. They are loud, and I've found lose a lot of their stickiness as soon as the thermometer goes above 90. Ironically they are decent in heavy rainfall

A/C Blower/Fans - I believe its the fans spinning in front of the engine compartment, but these things are loud as Hell. You can be in a group of 30 cars at a stop light and all you hear are these fans running with the A/C. I have no idea why Acura feels they need to run so often, I've never had a car that behaved this way and annoying is to say it mildly

Stiff Suspension - Yes its AWD, yes its designed to hang in the corners, BUT this could have been designed better. Here in the epically broke state of IL our roads SUCK and you better believe your back will feel every imperfection of the road in this car. This issue also leads to anything you have in your car rattling around, whether it be a cell phone in a door cubby or a picnic basket in the back seat. Better tires may help some

Pros

Excellent Seats - The side bolstering and comfort of the seats in the TL are nothing short of fantastic. If it weren't for the seat comfort, I don't think I could put up with the suspension issues mentioned above. In spirited driving they keep you planted and wrap you up. They have excellent leg/thigh support which is a must for taller individuals. I can't name a car I've driven recently that had more comfortable seats

Engine - The 3.7 motor is just awesome. The sound past 4K rpm is beautiful and provides more than enough power for daily driving, in fact probably too much most of the time. You can argue 0-60, 1/4 mile, blah blah blah all you want - fact is daily driving is practical driving, and you will beat just about every red light commando out there with this car if you want to. The SH-AWD is among the best available and its pretty entertaining to hear the guy next to you spin his tires when you're almost at the next light

Tech - The stereo is excellent, the hard drive is incredibly convenient, and the interface is very intuitive. While the console may look like a lot of buttons at first, they all make sense and I find most of my passengers figure it out after a few minutes of playing. I don't use the GPS often but when I have plugged in a destination its been spot on. I don't make use of the voice commands either, but the few times I played with them they worked as expected, I guess I can just use the buttons quicker

Aesthetics - Highly subjective I know, but I love the look of the car. I've had great car conversations with a lot of strangers because they come over to ask about my TL.

Well, there you have it - I just focused on the highlights. I'm sure there's more to discuss. I just passed 19000 miles, and have had no mechanical or electrical issues with the vehicle. In town I'm averaging 20mpg, and highway mpg has gone up considerably with the addition of the K&N filter - just last night we took a 100 mile trip and the computer averaged 29mpg with the cruise mostly at 70mph.

I bought my TL because I thought it offered more than the competition for the price, and after several test drives of multiple makes/models it fit my style the best. I would make the same buying decision today. However, I would maybe pick a different color, the graphite luster is a bitch to keep clean

Limelight

Nice review. Can't say I would disagree with anything you've said.

Limelight

I would also add questionable early shifting into 2nd/3rd gear in D mode as a con. Mind you, put her in S mode, and that con goes away quickly!

pimpin-tl

Add a few here.

Cons:

Transmission not holding gears like mentioned above. When you go up to around 110-120 mph the transmission shifts at 4k in 4th to 5th, I think it was, and won't stay in that gear no matter what you do, so you lose acceleration. Stupid. Yes I have done this a few times to see what the car can do in our 85 mph toll ways...

JM2010 SH-AWD

Thanks for the review. I think you are mostly spot on, but I haven't had the issue with the radiator fan noise you mention, and I find the tires are fine for my uses. Mine is a 2010; don't know if that would be relevant to the fan noise issue you've had.

As to aesthetics, I think the car looks better and better as it gets older. I've had more compliments and positive conversations about the exterior and interior of this car than any I've ever owned. My 2G Legend Coupe used to draw its share, but not as many as the TL. When I drive someone new in the car, I can always tell that they take a look around after they get in, then after about a minute say something like "this is a nice car."

radamo

Nice to hear you feel this way after two years. I have owned many cars in my day. This is the largest for me and that is taking some getting used to... But that being said in the 7 weeks I have had mine it just keeps getting better and better.

Enjoy.
RA

Ant$

the suspension is pretty stiff...but luckily I live in the burbs of Philly.

what AWD cars generally have a softer suspension? Toyota/Lexus...who else?

JM2010 SH-AWD

I should have said in my reply above that I don't feel the suspension is unduly stiff. I think they hit the ride/handling point just about right with this car, but I realize this is a subjective factor. I might feel differently if I spent all day driving on cobby, urban streets.

mynameisjacob

The stiff suspension was the very reason I decided on the SH-AWD model... it is utterly perfect. 'Road feel' and 'hard suspension' are both features to be touted, not shortcomings imho.

No offense but it's kinda like purchasing a 335i with sport suspension and complaining about how stiff the sport suspension is.

HeartTLs

iTrader: (5)

^^

You take care of your trans/torque converter yet/prop shaft yet?

mynameisjacob

Going to the dealership tomorrow for firmware reflash.

Tonyware

I agree about the tire noise, especially on highway speeds. For a tire at that price and for this car I think Michelin should have done a lot better. Also Acura/Honda should have improved the cabin noise insulation, especially the doors that appear to have no real noise material inside, except that little plastic thing.

Overall if Acura wants to go up against the Audi A4, they have to try harder to please.

SeismicGuy

My wife has had her 2012 FWD TL for almost 2 years and I am still blown away by the precise feel of the car, both in terms of steering/road feel and accelerator response (especially given that it is a drive-by-wire throttle).

The ride is a bit firmer than many similar Asian 4-door sport/luxury sedans but we have always preferred to feel the road versus floating on the road. We do not feel the tire noise is objectionable and, in fact, our friends who have had several Lexus ES keep commenting on how nice our car rides when they are in the back seat.

The one thing you mentioned that I noticed with this car as well as our previous 2000 TL is how much noise the A/C fans generate. When at a light you can clearly hear those things turning on and off.

TeamAcura

I totally agree with the A/C fan. It is noticeable loud. The only other con I have is the MPG. Right now I'm averaging 20.6 MPG which is not bad but could be better. I think I'll try the K&N air filter when it's due for replacement. I love everything else about the 4G. Even the design, I get so many looks and compliments it's quite humbling. Granted, my car is not totally stock but it still has the OEM look. Then when people step in they are even more impressed with the interior...and then they see it's a MT. Now they are like LOL.

rick sambora

iTrader: (1)

Nice review. I bought my 2013 SH-AWD tech from Muller in Hoffman estates as well. I also live in Hoffman estates.
I echo most of your thoughts. I bought mine on April 2 2013 and I have 5500miles on it so far. Most of my driving so far has been on I 290 going to the city. I agree with you when you say that the ride could have been softer especially for those who drive on broken pavement. More recently I have been done with my obligations in the city and the ride is so much more comfortable in the better roads in the burbs. Acceleration is great as you suggested. I do feel a small drop in performance when it gets hot outside and you are right the radiator fans are very intrusive. Tires have not really been a problem so far but mine are essentially new. I plan to get the michelin primacy when I have to change. The seat however has been an issue for me. I can never get comfortable. It just seems that the lumbar support hump is too high. Instead of supporting my lower spine it seems to be higher up protruding into my upper lumbar and lower thoracic spine. I don't know if my seat back is messed up. I will try and compare when I go for my first oil change.
BTW how has your experience been with the Muller's service center? I have had horrible experiences with them and would never go back. The sales dept. however has been wonderful.

012TL-GLM

Honestly I haven't been back to Muller since I bought the car - I've had all my service completed by the local Honda dealer in town - they told me they can do everything except warranty work, and I hope I don't have to worry about any of that for a long time

Edward'TLS

But for those buying the BMW, they have the CHOICE to add the "sport suspension" option to their otherwise OEM-sprung RWD 335i or AWD 335ix.

So one can have a RWD 335i with OEM suspension, another a RWD 335i with sport suspension, yet another with an AWD 335ix with OEM suspension, and others with an AWD 335ix with sport suspension.

Every 3-series owners can buy the suspension stiffness to his/her liking.

However, no such luck for the TL buyers. It's either the FWD with soft suspension or the AWD with stiff suspension, but no mix and match like the BMW's.

That's exactly why we always hear AWD-TL owners complain about the stiff suspension, because they just want the AWD capability but not the stiff suspension.

Mr Marco

Gripes about noise from the A/C fan?

C'mon guys, don't make me go back to trolling the RL forums.

mightl

cannot agree more on the A/C fan... that on-n-off noise blows me away!
Thanks for the review, the rest are spots on. And I also agree Acura could do better on the insulation for the cabin.

I love this car!

jim_c

Note to the OP: you have very nice grass!
And thanks for the review.

I have a 2010 FWD so it's quite different from the SHAWD version but here are a few comments.
I have driven lots of hot cars including muscle cars from the 60's, but this thing is a rocket. Amazing engine performance at highway speeds.
The original OEM tires are always harder and noisier since they are engineered for fuel economy ratings. But I have replacement Michelins (17") and they are harsh. There is a difference between a firm sporty suspension and tires, and harsh. I think my suspension is borderline acceptable but the tires are harsh on bad roads. Everything rattles in my car - the dash, the steering wheel, the sunroof, etc. Terrible, although I am an extreme fussbudget. The stereo is weak.
The seats are great as the OP mentioned. The looks are terrific. For a moderately priced car I think the looks are excellent, including the famous nose grill. The trunk opening is a joke - way too small, but I know it's a matter of styling. I love the looks but I can hardly get a golf cart into the trunk. The taillights, the exhaust pipes, the wheels, etc. everything looks great on this car. And did I mention? It goes like stink!

pimpin-tl

The 2012 has more insulation than the 2009-2011. Our 2009 was way louder than my 2012 is. 2012 is pretty damn quiet. I do hear the fan still but barely.

graphicguy

I had a 2010 TL SH AWD Tech (but now have a '13 Audi S4). I just helped my sister buy a 2013 TL SH AWD ADVANCE. Even with 19" tires/wheels (which look really good, btw), the '13 TL is more controlled and less noisy than my '10 TL was.

I don't recall any particular A/C noise in my '10. I'll have to ask my sister if she's noticed anything unusual about it.

As far as riding harshly, try an S4. It ralltes my teeth. Not that I don't like the car. I do. It's hellacciously fast. But, I do appreciate what the TL and Acura does. The TL ELS stereo smacks the Audi Stereo (and I have the high buck B&O stereo). Good luck getting the DVD-A, DTS, or even the USB to iPod/MP3 player to work with the Audi (been a year, and the dealership still can't get it to work correctly. The seats in the Audi only "wish" they were as comfortable and supportive as the TL's SH AWD seats. Even the handling is just different in the Audi...not better than the TL SH AWD Advance. Just different. The S4 "crashes" over road irregularities. My sister's TL smooths them out without beating you up.

Again, not saying the S4 is a bad car. You want something that handles well, something else has to give. If you want more "cush", the Lexus dealer would love to talk to you (but, forget about handling).

BTW....there's some dude in another thread, who sounds like some fake "gangstuh" wondering when his V-Tech "kicks in" what it sounds like. Is this what Acurazine has become? Not to complain. We get some of that over in Bimmerfest, too. There's a lot of pretenders over there, though. But, I always
thought Acurazine had more knowledgeable members. Hope that's not changing.

KeithL

I test drove an S4 back to back with a TL AWD Advance and no way was the S4 as firm or harsh as the TL. The Audi was far more refined in handling.

TeamAcura

I don't doubt what you are saying Keith but he is giving a long term review of the S4 as he does own one. So maybe over time you will feel the difference. Initial impressions may change after you spend some seat time in both cars. I still lust over an S5 though!

RSLTSX09XMNAVWX

Recently, 2 weeks ago, drove from San Diego to the Grand Canyon.. Needles was a cool 113 degrees and the temperature indicator hardly moved from center.. Thank you for fast moving air from the high speed fans. Yes they will make some noise.. Also my Gas Millage was amazing, average MPG for 1100 miles was 24.6 and my best milage was 26.9 Mpg.. 2010 SH-AWD tech...

KeithL

I agree, I thought that about the AWD TL when I first got it then after a few months it felt fine, but recently I was considering the AWD Advance TL vs. S4 and was just so damn impressed with how compliant Audi suspension is. Then again I did not drive it on extreme roads, but it sure handled road irregularities better than the TL. And then of course everyone has their own perspective.

graphicguy

Keith...I certainly respect all the input you give here. But, we disagree on this point. I love my cars. In retrospect, I loved my TL as much (or more) as either my BMW or S4, fr various different reasons,

KeithL

That fine everyone can agree to disagree. I will say the reason I did not buy an S4 was there were other things I did not like about it, first being it was small inside. I do love the size and feel of the 4G AWD TL, see,s to be a perfect size car and on good pavement is a dream to drive. I find the TL build quality to be top notch. I would love to get back into a 4G, but just know in 6 months when the 5G is out I would be kicking myself. I would rather defect Acura for a few years and come back to a 5 G maybe in 2 years.

graphicguy

Fair enough! I'm waiting for the 5G, too.

S4 (and, I have an E92 335ix) are fine cars. You come to appreciate what the TL does owning German iron. Everything on the Acura worked the way it was supposed to. And, regardless of the warranties on cars, if you constantly have to make a trek to the dealership for repairs, it's a PITA, regardless of if you're paying for them or not.

For $46K that a TL SH AWD Tech costs, add $4K-$7K and get a 335i or S4. But, to get "like for like", you'd have to add another $10K to the Audi or BMW. Given that my sister paid right around $40K for her TL SH AWD Advanced, it's a no-brainer.

While the TL isn't as fast, doesn't have that last 10th in handling, it does everything well, not just best. Everything just works. The motor sounds expensive. The doors thunk like they're expensive. The leather is real leather (not some imitation). Fly around a corner or over big pot holes, and nothing breakes. I've come to appreciate all of that in the Acura.

BTW, I took my Audi in forthe 4th time this a.m. for the dealer to attempt to fix the B&O stereo so it plays via USB/iPod again. This time, they're taking out the entire dash and replacing the head unit. Probably take 2-3 days. Two of those uber expensive wheels have cracked. I know I'm in for a fight with the dealer that they're defective as I've never even parked anywhere near a curb. Just frstrating as hell.

The good news is, they're now putting me in some sweet rides. In the past, an A6 2.0, before that an S5 (which BTW is the same as an S4, just with two less doors), before that an A7, and I think today I get a TT. They try to put me in pedestrian A4s. But, I've been there so much, they are trying to appease me with some of their other, more exciting rides.

KeithL

Looking at reliability stats the A6 seems to do better than the A4, ironically JD power 2013 shows Acura I thinks was 104 and Audi at 108, not sure how that is. I suspect because most of the Audi issues don't show up in the first 90 days.

Edward'TLS

Audi engineers are genius. They are particularly good in designing a 4-year service life for most of their vehicles, because most Audi's will start to go wrong right after the 4-yr standard factory warranty has expired.

Therefore, it is highly advisable that the longest extended warranty be purchased if one is planning to keep the Audi vehicle for long.

Edward'TLS

Sorry, damn double post. It's the system again.

Colin

Isn't it interesting that back when the warranty was 2 years, they fell apart at 2 years, 1 month?

JM2010 SH-AWD

Well, THAT is a side benefit to buying an Audi that is not touted in their ads.

Seriously, I hope they get you fixed up soon. If you have always owned cars that have these sorts of failures, you might almost accept them as normal. Folks like you who have owned reliable cars must find it maddening to have to make repeated trips to the dealer to get things that shouldn't break fixed. A good friend bought an A4 and it has been very problematic, including a major engine failure. I doubt he'll go there again.

Edward'TLS

I guess this is truly "German engineering".

keith7120

My issues with the fans are they come on way to often, they might as well stay on and yes they are a bit nosy. Its not a raggedy it just doesn't seem to fit the type of car it is. You would expect a civic to make all of that fan noise.

Glashub

You could have air like this which is on a car at the Acura price point -

"So yesterday (and today) it was 104 degrees F in the shade. My white 2012 Genesis 5.0 had sat outside in the parking lot in full sun all day until 3pm when I started my 50 mile drive home. 70 mph, A/C on, temp low, fan high, recirc on...no cooling. Tried Auto, no recirc, the A with arrows around it, different modes: no improvement. Ambient temperature. After about 20 minutes of this I tried cycling on and off the A/C button. Each time it would blow cold for about 10 seconds. After about 3 tries, the air stayed cool. By the time I got home I was turning the fan down and the temp up with very good cooling, despite an increase in ambient temperature to 108.
Any ideas (besides the "take in to the dealer to have it checked under warranty"). The last time I was there it was 80 degrees and working fine. Today it worked fine, but I had indoor parking."

I sold the car because I couldn't get the air to work reliably. Hope this give you a changed perspective. I liked the Acura air. Worked fast and cold.

http://www.genesisowners.com/hyundai...ad.php?t=11750

graphicguy

BINGO....that's exactly it. You don't appreciate the one thing we all expect our cars to do every day...start, go, perform the was it's supposed to, with everything working correctly.

You know, I thought this was the cost of owning German iron. Now, after driving my sister's new '13 SH AWD Advance, I'm reminded of all the things I became used to and really didn't even think about with the Acura.

Can you tell I'm missing it?

BTW....I'm thinking Audi and BMW are pricing themselves out of the sports sedan market. Last time I took my BMW in for service (there's that reocurring theme with German cars), they had a 328ix on the showroom. Given, it was loaded up. But, it had an MSRP north of $51K.

That's a 4 cyl, with numb steering that these days won't out handle a TL SH AWD for over $50K. My loaded 335 ix coupe came in under that. And, it's pretty loaded (and I negotiated the hell out of them).

The loaners when they gave me for service were "stripper" 328 ix....mid $40s (or about the same as a loaded up TL. It sounded like a diesel (it wasn't).

Anyway, my point of all this, complain about the TL. But, you look at it's competition and keep in mind that the one big thing everyone overlooks is the engineering and testing that goes into a car that works, is built well, performs well, and rarely breaks.

Bring on the 5G. It's at the top of my list when it hits the showrooms.

jim_c

My neighbour had an Audi A4 a couple years ago, brand new car.
The engine would cut out at 75, 80 mph on the highway at irregular and unpredictable times. No engine! Brand new car. After several trips to the dealer they still could not fix it. Eventually they flew a tech in from Germany to work on his car. He is still an Audi fan and bought another one.

012TL-GLM

entertaining responses, thanks for the feedback

The German cars are great when they're running right. Everyone I know personally with a BMW or Audi has a Japanese daily driver, which cracks me up. GF's Dad is a die hard Bimmer fan - has a 335D, M5, and 535i - his DD is a Toyota Tundra. Everytime we visit he complains about the BMW dealer and what service he's currently in need of. Guess its good he can afford so many vehicles.

I rarely hear bad press about Mercedes, perhaps they got the formula right or the owners just aren't very loud