Advice on which TL to buy
03-27-2014, 09:52 AM
#1
6th Gear
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 6
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Advice on which TL to buy
Hi everyone,
I have been lurking the AZ forums for a while and I finally decided to register. I am in the market for a used TL and am looking for some advice/opinions. I have been scouring the forum trying to figure out what some of the common problems are with different models and it has been hit and miss. Regardless of which model I end up with, the Tech package is a must. Hopefully, you guys can shed some light on my possible choices. Thanks in advance.
2009-2011 SH-AWD (5AT)
It seems that there may be some issues with the 5-speed automatic transmission in these cars. More specifically, there appears to be an issue with the torque convertor. I haven't been able to ascertain just how common an issue it is or at what mileage these issues seem to pop up at. Can I please have some feedback from the masses on this?
Also, I have been reading the oil consumption threads regarding the 3.7L and it seems as though the issue is more readily apparent in vehicles with a manual transmission. Can anyone confirm if that is the case or if the AT cars suffer the same fate?
I have also read that the propeller shaft for the SH-AWD commonly fails resulting in squeaking/whistling bearings. Other than getting a dealership to cover the cost of this repair under the powertrain warranty, is there an aftermarket source for the part? I am looking ahead to if/when this fails outside of the warranty period, what it might cost to replace.
Currently, I am looking at a few 2010 models with anywhere from 77,xxx kms (46,xxx miles) - 100,xxx kms (60,xxx miles). The prices seem to start at around $21,000 and some models are certified pre-owned.
2010-2011 SH-AWD (6MT)
These seem to be few and far between. I really have my heart set on a TL with the manual transmission, but have come to the realization that this is going to be difficult to achieve with a sub-$25,000 price range. There is currently one car for sale in my area with 93,xxx kms (55,xxx miles) for about $22,000. However, it is at a used car lot and is, obviously, not certified pre-owned.
Other than the oil consumption issues, which I referred to above, and the third gear popout issue, are there any other problems/issues specific to the MT cars that I should be aware of? With all things being equal, do you think I would be better off purchasing the MT vehicle from the used car lot and forgo the CPO powertrain warranty (7 years/130,000 kms/78,000 miles)?
2012+ SH-AWD (6AT)
Other than the aesthetic changes, the biggest change seems to be the automatic transmission and the switch from a 5-speed unit to a 6-speed one. I have read some accounts of torque convertor issues with this transmission as well. How widespread of a problem is this? Have there been any other common problems with the 6AT?
While I'm undecided as to whether I like the exterior refresh, that is less of a concern for me than picking the more reliable version of the TL.
2012+ SH-AWD (6MT)
While I have yet to, and most likely never will, see a model like this in my price range, I figured I would ask if there were any changes made to the 6MT in 2012. I haven't read anything that leads me to believe there were, but I could be wrong.
2009-2013 FWD
It seems that the venerable 3.5L doesn't suffer from any of the oil consumption issues of the 3.7L and some may argue it's the more reliable of the two engines. However, everything I have read leads me to believe that the version to get is the SH-AWD. People have cited the power difference, the benefits of AWD over FWD (i.e. torque steer, traction, etc.), the handling and "fun" factor.
Other than the obvious differences between the two (i.e. engine size and drive wheels), are there any significant reliability pros that a FWD version has over the SH-AWD? Specifically, I am interested in the AT and wonder if there is any difference when mated to the less powerful engine.
3G TL
I know - this is the 4G forum, but I have to ask about the 3G. When I started my search for a TL, my heart was set on a 3G. Specifically, I wanted a 6MT. After looking around for a couple of months, I realized how much the 3G seems to have held it's value. 6MT cars, in Dynamic Package or Type-S trim, seem to be a rare find and are priced as such. Type-S TLs with 5AT seem to be a little more common, but are still priced somewhat high when compared to the 4G model.
Type-S models with 5AT seem to be going for anywhere from $14,000 - $20,000 with mileage ranging from 100,xxx kms (60,xxx miles) to 180,xxx kms (108,xxx miles). I would be more than happy with one of these, except I find that for a little more money I can get into a newer 4G TL, if I can find the right one.
Does the 5AT in the 3G share anything, including issues/problems, with the 4G? If you were in my position, would you consider a 3G over a 4G? Which of the two would you consider more reliable?
Other Issues
Thanks again.
I have been lurking the AZ forums for a while and I finally decided to register. I am in the market for a used TL and am looking for some advice/opinions. I have been scouring the forum trying to figure out what some of the common problems are with different models and it has been hit and miss. Regardless of which model I end up with, the Tech package is a must. Hopefully, you guys can shed some light on my possible choices. Thanks in advance.
2009-2011 SH-AWD (5AT)
It seems that there may be some issues with the 5-speed automatic transmission in these cars. More specifically, there appears to be an issue with the torque convertor. I haven't been able to ascertain just how common an issue it is or at what mileage these issues seem to pop up at. Can I please have some feedback from the masses on this?
Also, I have been reading the oil consumption threads regarding the 3.7L and it seems as though the issue is more readily apparent in vehicles with a manual transmission. Can anyone confirm if that is the case or if the AT cars suffer the same fate?
I have also read that the propeller shaft for the SH-AWD commonly fails resulting in squeaking/whistling bearings. Other than getting a dealership to cover the cost of this repair under the powertrain warranty, is there an aftermarket source for the part? I am looking ahead to if/when this fails outside of the warranty period, what it might cost to replace.
Currently, I am looking at a few 2010 models with anywhere from 77,xxx kms (46,xxx miles) - 100,xxx kms (60,xxx miles). The prices seem to start at around $21,000 and some models are certified pre-owned.
2010-2011 SH-AWD (6MT)
These seem to be few and far between. I really have my heart set on a TL with the manual transmission, but have come to the realization that this is going to be difficult to achieve with a sub-$25,000 price range. There is currently one car for sale in my area with 93,xxx kms (55,xxx miles) for about $22,000. However, it is at a used car lot and is, obviously, not certified pre-owned.
Other than the oil consumption issues, which I referred to above, and the third gear popout issue, are there any other problems/issues specific to the MT cars that I should be aware of? With all things being equal, do you think I would be better off purchasing the MT vehicle from the used car lot and forgo the CPO powertrain warranty (7 years/130,000 kms/78,000 miles)?
2012+ SH-AWD (6AT)
Other than the aesthetic changes, the biggest change seems to be the automatic transmission and the switch from a 5-speed unit to a 6-speed one. I have read some accounts of torque convertor issues with this transmission as well. How widespread of a problem is this? Have there been any other common problems with the 6AT?
While I'm undecided as to whether I like the exterior refresh, that is less of a concern for me than picking the more reliable version of the TL.
2012+ SH-AWD (6MT)
While I have yet to, and most likely never will, see a model like this in my price range, I figured I would ask if there were any changes made to the 6MT in 2012. I haven't read anything that leads me to believe there were, but I could be wrong.
2009-2013 FWD
It seems that the venerable 3.5L doesn't suffer from any of the oil consumption issues of the 3.7L and some may argue it's the more reliable of the two engines. However, everything I have read leads me to believe that the version to get is the SH-AWD. People have cited the power difference, the benefits of AWD over FWD (i.e. torque steer, traction, etc.), the handling and "fun" factor.
Other than the obvious differences between the two (i.e. engine size and drive wheels), are there any significant reliability pros that a FWD version has over the SH-AWD? Specifically, I am interested in the AT and wonder if there is any difference when mated to the less powerful engine.
3G TL
I know - this is the 4G forum, but I have to ask about the 3G. When I started my search for a TL, my heart was set on a 3G. Specifically, I wanted a 6MT. After looking around for a couple of months, I realized how much the 3G seems to have held it's value. 6MT cars, in Dynamic Package or Type-S trim, seem to be a rare find and are priced as such. Type-S TLs with 5AT seem to be a little more common, but are still priced somewhat high when compared to the 4G model.
Type-S models with 5AT seem to be going for anywhere from $14,000 - $20,000 with mileage ranging from 100,xxx kms (60,xxx miles) to 180,xxx kms (108,xxx miles). I would be more than happy with one of these, except I find that for a little more money I can get into a newer 4G TL, if I can find the right one.
Does the 5AT in the 3G share anything, including issues/problems, with the 4G? If you were in my position, would you consider a 3G over a 4G? Which of the two would you consider more reliable?
Other Issues
- If I purchase from a used car dealer, does the Acura powertrain warranty automatically transfer over to me, as the new owner? If not, is there anything that can be done to have the vehicle covered (assuming I purchase one that still falls within the time/mileage covered)?
- How important would you consider the CPO status and remaining warranty of a TL purchased from Acura?
- Are there any other common issues with the 4G TL that I have missed or should be looking out for?
- Is there any other advice you have for me on my quest to TL ownership?
Thanks again.
03-27-2014, 10:08 AM
#2
Keeping TL until 2029
I prefer the certifed pre-owned versions and I got a 2009 TL SH-AWD.
http://www.acura.ca/owners/standard-warranty
If you decide on the FWD version, I would get 18 rims. The 17s look too small unless you have winter tires on them.
- If I purchase from a used car dealer, does the Acura powertrain warranty automatically transfer over to me, as the new owner? If not, is there anything that can be done to have the vehicle covered (assuming I purchase one that still falls within the time/mileage covered)?
http://www.acura.ca/owners/standard-warranty
- How important would you consider the CPO status and remaining warranty of a TL purchased from Acura?
- Are there any other common issues with the 4G TL that I have missed or should be looking out for?
- Is there any other advice you have for me on my quest to TL ownership?
If you decide on the FWD version, I would get 18 rims. The 17s look too small unless you have winter tires on them.
03-27-2014, 01:29 PM
#3
Burning Brakes
Hi there RSX man I am also in Ontario. Where are you? If you are anywhere near me I would let you test drive my car and tell you all about it. I bought a 2010 with 59 K (km) a year and a half ago. It is the base model (which I wanted) and is 5AT I previously drove a manual Integra for 13 years. I am very happy with my car except for one thing: I have the dreaded roof rattle which is well known and for which there is a tech service bulletin.
Most of the guys on here will recommend the SH-AWD but it depends on your driving style and what you feel are your real needs. How old are you? Is this a family car? Do you need the huge back seat? Do you need more trunk room for carrying stuff? Do you care about the gas mileage? etc.
I got the exact car I wanted at a great price at an Acura dealer.
The car (3.5L obviously) does not have a lot of low rev torque but it is very fast on the highway. It is not a sports car, it is not perfect by any stretch, but it is a fun car to drive and even my base model has a lot of features.
Most of the guys on here will recommend the SH-AWD but it depends on your driving style and what you feel are your real needs. How old are you? Is this a family car? Do you need the huge back seat? Do you need more trunk room for carrying stuff? Do you care about the gas mileage? etc.
I got the exact car I wanted at a great price at an Acura dealer.
The car (3.5L obviously) does not have a lot of low rev torque but it is very fast on the highway. It is not a sports car, it is not perfect by any stretch, but it is a fun car to drive and even my base model has a lot of features.
03-27-2014, 02:02 PM
#4
I'll throw my $0.02 FWIW
I own an 09 FWD tech in CBP. When I went through a similar process as you are doing, heading into the process on paper I was utterly convinced i would go SH AWD. I drove both versions fairly extensively and came to the conclusion that the FWD rode better for me, had better MPG, and would likely be more reliable for some of the reasons you've mentioned.
I'd have loved an MT, but my work commute is heavy traffic into Boston, while I absolutely loved my previous car (8th gen Civic Si MT, with all the power and suspension goodies) The MT wasn't ideal for that type of use. And i was looking for a more family friendly and spacious vehicle.
I really have no complaints with the FWD. With winter tires it has shown to be extremely capable in heavy snow situations. It handles very acceptibly, ample power, and it just a well rounded car. I'd also agree the tech package is a must, it has great easy to use systems and i've enjoyed it alot.
I think you need to evaluate needs, wants and cost. I'd say the odds are that a FWD will be more reliable than an AWD, but that isn't to say the AWD in its own right isn't very reliable. It will be a little cheaper, and it will be a little more efficient. It is acceptibly capable in all weather conditions. If speeding around offramps and pushing the limits of the car is a high priority, go for the AWD.
I think you will find no matter which way you go that the car isn't going to perform like a high horsepower sports sedan. It will check all the boxes, at a good value, and provide you a level of luxury you will appreciate.
I could care less at bench racing, or 0-60, but some say the FWD is in the ballpark of the SHAWD off the line. I don't spin tires or experience torque steer in my day to day driving of the car. Its just to say they aren't in wildly different ballparks with regards to power.
To me, that little extra bit of capability in the end wasn't worth the very minor sacrifices and extra cost. You could really go either way with the decision... Best of luck
I own an 09 FWD tech in CBP. When I went through a similar process as you are doing, heading into the process on paper I was utterly convinced i would go SH AWD. I drove both versions fairly extensively and came to the conclusion that the FWD rode better for me, had better MPG, and would likely be more reliable for some of the reasons you've mentioned.
I'd have loved an MT, but my work commute is heavy traffic into Boston, while I absolutely loved my previous car (8th gen Civic Si MT, with all the power and suspension goodies) The MT wasn't ideal for that type of use. And i was looking for a more family friendly and spacious vehicle.
I really have no complaints with the FWD. With winter tires it has shown to be extremely capable in heavy snow situations. It handles very acceptibly, ample power, and it just a well rounded car. I'd also agree the tech package is a must, it has great easy to use systems and i've enjoyed it alot.
I think you need to evaluate needs, wants and cost. I'd say the odds are that a FWD will be more reliable than an AWD, but that isn't to say the AWD in its own right isn't very reliable. It will be a little cheaper, and it will be a little more efficient. It is acceptibly capable in all weather conditions. If speeding around offramps and pushing the limits of the car is a high priority, go for the AWD.
I think you will find no matter which way you go that the car isn't going to perform like a high horsepower sports sedan. It will check all the boxes, at a good value, and provide you a level of luxury you will appreciate.
I could care less at bench racing, or 0-60, but some say the FWD is in the ballpark of the SHAWD off the line. I don't spin tires or experience torque steer in my day to day driving of the car. Its just to say they aren't in wildly different ballparks with regards to power.
To me, that little extra bit of capability in the end wasn't worth the very minor sacrifices and extra cost. You could really go either way with the decision... Best of luck
The following users liked this post:
BlueAquarian (04-03-2014)
03-27-2014, 03:11 PM
#6
2010 TL AWD 6MT: New King
OP, you are really doing your homework, which is good. Based on the info you provided, I would go for the one you really want, which is the 10-11 TL 6MT. Otherwise you'll be kicking yourself in the foot.
I have 46k miles on my 2010 TL 6MT. Some issues I have so far are what you mentioned: 3rd gear pop out (which I got the dealership to fix under warranty) and oil consumption (I'm currently undergoing on the 1,000 mile consumption test).
Other than above, I had my rear head rests springs replaced (under warranty) and oil sensor recently replaced as part of the oil consumption issue ($160 by the stealership, which I suspect in after thought it didn't need replacement). And I have an ongoing low speed "engine diesel/rattle noise" that I'm not sure if it's heat shield, engine ping from gas octane issues, or what.
I also have the rare 1st-2nd gear shift "screech" that is not resolved and is so infrequent I the stealership of course can't replicate it. And finally I'm beginning to suspect that my rear shocks are going bad b/c I can hear a slight "squeak" coming from the rear when I get into the car.
Compared to my 2005 TSX I had at 51,000 miles, the TSX had NO issues whatsoever other than a TSB for headlight cover replacement.
IMHO, reliability wise it's a decently reliable vehicle, but it has it's share of issues, though none are catastrophic or outrageous in costs (yet). Time will tell if I incur any other repair costs with the TL, but it's definitely not as reliable as my old TSX or my wife's RX330 even at 105,000 miles.
I have 46k miles on my 2010 TL 6MT. Some issues I have so far are what you mentioned: 3rd gear pop out (which I got the dealership to fix under warranty) and oil consumption (I'm currently undergoing on the 1,000 mile consumption test).
Other than above, I had my rear head rests springs replaced (under warranty) and oil sensor recently replaced as part of the oil consumption issue ($160 by the stealership, which I suspect in after thought it didn't need replacement). And I have an ongoing low speed "engine diesel/rattle noise" that I'm not sure if it's heat shield, engine ping from gas octane issues, or what.
I also have the rare 1st-2nd gear shift "screech" that is not resolved and is so infrequent I the stealership of course can't replicate it. And finally I'm beginning to suspect that my rear shocks are going bad b/c I can hear a slight "squeak" coming from the rear when I get into the car.
Compared to my 2005 TSX I had at 51,000 miles, the TSX had NO issues whatsoever other than a TSB for headlight cover replacement.
IMHO, reliability wise it's a decently reliable vehicle, but it has it's share of issues, though none are catastrophic or outrageous in costs (yet). Time will tell if I incur any other repair costs with the TL, but it's definitely not as reliable as my old TSX or my wife's RX330 even at 105,000 miles.
03-27-2014, 03:22 PM
#7
06 Anthracite TL
I'm in the camp that says if you want a 4G and if cost is a factor, get the FWD tech model. I would hope the 3.7 oil consumption issues are few in nature, but as for the way I drive (which is fairly conservatively), I'd opt for the FWD Tech (and I'd get a 2012+ model).
Trending Topics
03-27-2014, 04:05 PM
#8
Instructor
I just bought a used 2012 Acura TL FWT w/ Tech from Markham Acura actually. I'm surprised to see so many people from Toronto on this forum.. but then again there are Acuras all over Toronto.
Anyway, I was actually going to get a TSX i4 AT. I only wanted 2012 w/ Tech but there aren't many on the market and they're very expensive. All the 2012 TSX's w/ Tech that were Acura Certified and had a clean CarProof report were all asking for 28k-30k + dealer fees + taxes which is a lot for a 2012 model. I ended up with a 2012 TL FWD w/ Tech that had around 60k KM (a bit high) and a few scruffs on the bumper that I will fix for less than I could get a TSX w/ tech for. I paid roughly 25.5k plus taxes (dealer fees were waived) and the car had a clean CarProof and had always been serviced at the dealer that I had bought it from.
So for the past few days I've been wondering if I should have gotten the AWD as most of the used TLs I see on AutoTrader or on the dealer's sites are AWD/Elite and give you better value for the money if you want those features. But the mileage is worse and will still end up costing more overall. I'm happy with my purchase because I essentially got everything I wanted in a TSX w/ Tech plus more, and it is a car that I think looks less outdated.
I agree with erdoc48; get a 2012 especially if you're going to get an AT. The 2009-2011 FWD has the same fuel economy as the 2012+ AWD, and the 2012+ FWD give the best fuel economy of all the 4G TLs. They also have potentially less problems. I don't drive very aggressively so the FWD is more than enough for me, but I would appreciate the AWD for the winters, but proper tires should be sufficient enough.
Anyway, I was actually going to get a TSX i4 AT. I only wanted 2012 w/ Tech but there aren't many on the market and they're very expensive. All the 2012 TSX's w/ Tech that were Acura Certified and had a clean CarProof report were all asking for 28k-30k + dealer fees + taxes which is a lot for a 2012 model. I ended up with a 2012 TL FWD w/ Tech that had around 60k KM (a bit high) and a few scruffs on the bumper that I will fix for less than I could get a TSX w/ tech for. I paid roughly 25.5k plus taxes (dealer fees were waived) and the car had a clean CarProof and had always been serviced at the dealer that I had bought it from.
So for the past few days I've been wondering if I should have gotten the AWD as most of the used TLs I see on AutoTrader or on the dealer's sites are AWD/Elite and give you better value for the money if you want those features. But the mileage is worse and will still end up costing more overall. I'm happy with my purchase because I essentially got everything I wanted in a TSX w/ Tech plus more, and it is a car that I think looks less outdated.
I agree with erdoc48; get a 2012 especially if you're going to get an AT. The 2009-2011 FWD has the same fuel economy as the 2012+ AWD, and the 2012+ FWD give the best fuel economy of all the 4G TLs. They also have potentially less problems. I don't drive very aggressively so the FWD is more than enough for me, but I would appreciate the AWD for the winters, but proper tires should be sufficient enough.
03-28-2014, 10:54 AM
#9
I went with FWD, though as a performance enthusiast considered the SH-AWD. Discussing with my dealer sales person and Service Dept manager, they both said the FWD is more reliable in long run and less maintenance than AWD. I find performance is more than adequate and the car is extremely reliable.
03-28-2014, 11:23 AM
#10
At the end of the day, the bigger 3.7 was to offset the additional weight of the SH-AWD. However, I sure get a kick out of the torque vectoring and not to mention in the winter.... I do not hesitate or wonder if I should park at a certain spot due to the amount of snow present.
03-28-2014, 03:04 PM
#12
Burning Brakes
I'm actually from Ottawa but I picked up my car from Hamilton because the there's a lot more selections in Toronto. My car ended up being $22,500 +tax and it had 69,000km on it fully loaded with Tech and AWD along with it being CPO'd (got my car in February.) I can say that yes the torque converter thing does happen but I'm still under warranty and I believe it's not a huge issue as far as I know. I chose CPO because I was financing it and the interest rates for TL's are very low. Overall I've been really happy with my car. Gas mileage on AWD isn't the best but I wouldn't go FWD. If I did, I wouldn't have even considered a TL and bought an IS350 instead.
03-28-2014, 07:14 PM
#14
Intermediate
I had a 2010 6 speed shawd tech that I drove to 100k miles in 3 years with absolutely no problems. I loved the car so much that I replaced it with a 2014 6 speed in December. I have 9 on the new one and everything is perfect. Strangely enough, the new one seems significantly faster than the old one by the seat of my pants. Get the one that stirs you. (No torque converter problem in manuals....)
03-29-2014, 11:44 AM
#15
Burning Brakes
Interesting. I agree that you should get the one you really want.
If you can figure that out, lol.
I was lucky and found exactly what I wanted at a good price.
The prices in St. Catharines are better than in Toronto or Hamilton.
FWIW, I don't think cpo means anything - or very little.
I don't think the Acura dealer did any maintenance at all to my car before selling it to me. But it still had 16 mos. Acura warranty and I had no problem or hesitation in buying. Fortunately I can do all the routine maintenance myself. I bought about $300 worth of parts as part of the deal at a reduced price and did all the servicing myself.
Brakes were brutal, oil was brutal, filters were horrible, but all of that is easily addressed. Interestingly (and I appreciated it very much) the dealer was happy to put the car in the air for me so I could inspect it from underneath and one of the service techs answered several questions I had as we checked it out on the hoist. I will most likely buy my next car from the same dealer.
If you can figure that out, lol.
I was lucky and found exactly what I wanted at a good price.
The prices in St. Catharines are better than in Toronto or Hamilton.
FWIW, I don't think cpo means anything - or very little.
I don't think the Acura dealer did any maintenance at all to my car before selling it to me. But it still had 16 mos. Acura warranty and I had no problem or hesitation in buying. Fortunately I can do all the routine maintenance myself. I bought about $300 worth of parts as part of the deal at a reduced price and did all the servicing myself.
Brakes were brutal, oil was brutal, filters were horrible, but all of that is easily addressed. Interestingly (and I appreciated it very much) the dealer was happy to put the car in the air for me so I could inspect it from underneath and one of the service techs answered several questions I had as we checked it out on the hoist. I will most likely buy my next car from the same dealer.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
BobbyGraham388
4G TL (2009-2014)
12
10-22-2015 05:05 PM