chirik

Great post

Are you THAT stupid or a moron who can’t follow the MAJOR point? The point is the 2009 TL is NOT a performance sedan as it claimed to be. Honda announced that “..Acura TL performance luxury sedan has set lofty standards for styling, performance, comfort and technology”. That is most laughable and ridiculous statement. Styling? It looks like crap. This very own board freaking POLL shows majority HATE the styling.
Performance? It’s laughable against the competition. It fails versus C350, IS350, G37, CTS, and 335i (see below my Edmunds quote). TL is UGLY and SLOW, period.

Again, for slow people who cannot follow . The point is Acura TL is NOT a sports sedan as it claimed to be. Inside comfort and technology feature along with good interior room, yes. Nothing else. Obsolete engine, terrible performance, ugly exterior. 14.8@97mph performance is identical to a family car like Accord V6 and failure against REAL SPORTS/LUXURY cars like 335i, G37 and IS350. Get a clue and enjoy your own and Acura failure.

chirik

Edmunds (unbiased source) and majority actually disagree with you.

Here is the review....

S2000 Driver

That was truly a rude and nasty post.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

lol, one hint, don't use Edmunds as a reliable source for performance numbers. For example, as shown in your quote,

"...the new Audi A4 3.2 (6.9 seconds to 60 mph)"

They also went on and got 15@94.7mph in the 1/4 mile. (http://www.edmunds.com/audi/a4/2009/testdrive.html)

What did Car and Driver got for the exact same car?

"The V-6 hustled our A4 3.2 Quattro test car from 0 to 60 mph in 5.7 seconds......The previous quarter-mile time of 15.7 seconds at 100 mph improves by 1.4 seconds (15.7 - 1.4 = 14.3."

I'm sure you know there's a big difference between 15.7s and 14.3s in the 1/4 mile. How Edmunds got 15@94mph? Only they know. For reference, a TSX with 200hp can do 15.3@93mph. I don't think anyone will agree the TSX is faster than the A4 V6. It seems to be Edmunds don't know how to drive AWD cars properly. The TL SH-AWD according to Car and Driver does 0-60mph in 6s (same as C350 as posted by you), not 6.7s. And that's with brake torquing, which causes the car to shift to 2nd gear when launch (thus, a big delay, see Wavehogger's videos). In fact, Wave already emailed Edmunds and Edmunds are going to look into that issue. Edmunds did notice a delay in acceleration, so that explains why they got such a crappy time.

Now what about Road and track? 0-60mph in 6.3s (tie with CTS) and 14.8@96.7mph
Motortrend got 0-60mph in 6.2s (better than CTS this time) and 14.7@97.2mph (http://www.smugmug.com/gallery/65402...28_5UzM3-X3-LB)

Hmm, most mags, C&D, Motortrend, and Road and track get low 6s for 0-60 and high 14's in the 1/4 mile. No, I never said it's faster than G, IS350, or 335i, but judging from these numbers, and the numbers posted by you, it's on par with C350, A4, and CTS (with both C350 and CTS DI both trapping at 97mph and ET of high 14's, like the TL). And out of all these, not many can pull well above 0.9g. I guess because C350, A4, and CTS are slower than IS350, G, and 335i, they are all failure too.

And obsolete engine? Let's compare some BMEP:

TL: 11.9 bar
G37: 11.34 bar
IS350: 12.23 bar (with DI)
C350: 11.42 bar
CTS: 12 bar (with DI)
A4 3.2: 11.4 bar (with DI)

That's right, even without DI, the TL has a higher BMEP than the A4 with DI engine. And it's very close to the 12 bar by the CTS DI.

TLType-s12

iTrader: (2)

I get what the OP is saying and still it really doesnt make a differnce to me. I love my TL-S. The TL is a total package car for the right price. The design cannot be beat by any other car in its class. My friends are always saying "if only your car was RWD"

G35 or IS350(any other car in its class) -- RWD, more HP, LSD = faster than the TL

kssod

Neither a troll nor an Acura hater. Except for my Jag every vehicle I've owned has been a honda product including my current 06 RL and 08 MDX. Interestingly, in the wish list for 4g 2010 thread, almost every post asks for a 6 or 7 speed AT. I never said that the technology of the 4G was obsolete, nor that the TL wasn't a performance car. It is marketed directly in both size and price against many vehicles that are "performance" sedans, and it holds up well. I enjoy nearly every aspect of my RL and find the SH-AWD a great safety, and fun feature. The electronics/nav etc are outstanding, reliability great.
The tranny issue has been discussed in a civilized manner on the RL board and most owners feel that the vehicle would benefit from a 6 or 7 speed tranny. As the new TL is a consideration for my next vehicle I am only looking for the best overall package with the least compromises.
The current state of the art is DSG, but even a $20k Malibu or Fusion has a 6 speed auto to increase performance and fuel economy

msslp04

I can see you just don't like the 4G TL. Why are complaining about performance and transmission? Your opinion is your opinion. I have an opinion too and it is that you are stupid but who cares right? Styling is also a matter of personal opinion so who cares if nobody else likes the car except for those who bought one. Get off your soap box and find something constructive to do!!!

Kevin

Trackruner228

iTrader: (1)

The OP has a point though. Acura for whatever reason is using the same old tranny. I think they are afraid of having another 2G crisis. However, almost all other luxury autos have ditched the 5spd auto. Hell the Camry V6 comes with a 6spd auto. Its time for Acura to make a new tranny.

PetesTL

You can bet we'll see a 6sp AT in the TL in the not-too-distant future. What I like to see happen, though, is for Acura to "leap-frog" the competition (Infiniti, BMW) and offer a dual-clutch transmission similar to that in the Audi S4 or even in the Subaru WRX STi....probably won't happen due to too much $$$.

bmode

Absolutely, it is time for a new tran. However, as a mod I would of shut down this thread immediately as the OP posted a "flame bait" post. There are lots of ways to discuss things, but he straight out "dissed" the TL with that header, regardless of his real topic. Who's to say what's fast and not fast? This car is fast enough for me, shoot. I'm not racing it by any means, I just need to get around and go up a few hills with power and the AC on, and this car does it with style!

Another point to Honda's credit is keep using what works for you! I've had Honda's for 12 years now and never have I had a problem with a transmission. So they've pretty much won me over!

chirik

What was that? English please.

For the last time:
Acura FAILED simply because they DO NOT LISTEN a consumer who wants BOTH - performance and luxury under $50K? Once again, and I say it s-l-o-w specifically for you - they're accomplished an INTERIOR amenities and features but FAILED in PERFORMANCE and EXTERIOR. Get it?

As far as your last sentence, you're an idiot. My criticism is quite constructive and shows the cons and pros of the new TL. Read above paragraph again. Yes it's a summary for someone like you. Also, your compulsive purchase or lease tells me your lack of intelligence to even consider such a failure as the new TL vs true sport/luxury sedans in the same price range or a tad higher.

chirik

Dude you post is pointless and you know it since this new TL is a looser (see below).

WTH is BMEP? And why do I care if REAL performance shown on ¼ mile strip simply blows the TL away. This is TRUE test done by ACTUAL owners. Correct, forget about the magazine. I brought this up since you used Magazines but it’s not a consistent and truly reliable source. I believe time slips only. Guess what? Acura TL is always a looser in performance. Next, answer yourself, how come the J-series is outdated SOHC design that dates back to the 2000 and doesn't make competitve power vs 335i, and G37 and IS350. Like I said, those cars will wipe the floor of both TL FWD and SH-AWD anytime/anyday and I hope you know it, otherwise you live in la-la land. Go drive G37 or 335i, heck even 328i is faster than TL clocking 14.6.

I guess performance has nothing to do with sales either since the 3-series BMW which is altogether older, more expensive and smaller in any comparable trim sold almost twice as many cars last month compared to the brand spanking new Acura TL. Here is your answer – TL sucks. Sorry, screw Honda and its incompetence to deliver a true competition in upscale market. At least they’re accomplished quite well with new Accord vs Camry and Altima.

chirik

Here you go, this proves again that competition is more advanced and always a step further.

I disagree about the lack of funding. This is more of "we do not care about the consumer" point of view. Everybody complained about lack of V8 in RL, hence lousy sales. Finally, Acura considering a V8 for a "flagship" sedan because ALL potential buyers went to LEXUS and INFINITI or even higher to BMW, MB V8 sedans. Another example is competition always ran on RWD and introduced AWD. Nope, Acura TL always stayed only as "wrong wheel drive" until now.

PeterUbers

iTrader: (1)

I agree with the OP, the Acura lineup is slow, and I've been patiently waiting for Acura to inject more "youth" and "spirit" in their lineup....

Infiniti, Lexus... they're all running low 14's in the carrags and on the track in realtime. Dunno why Acura can't develop an engine with nice flat torque curves in the lower gearing... would love to see it.

I don't think the OP was knocking the TL, Acura, or whatever. It's a valid point, and it's too bad that even the new Maxima probably feels lighter on it's feet than the new TL.

PetesTL

I don't know about the competition always being more advanced. Acura's SH-AWD is the probably the best AWD system out there bar none. Acura's NAV system has always been the industry standard and their new voice command system in the 4G is the best I've ever experienced. Acura's are the most balanced vehicles out there....they combine performance, features, reliability, safety, and value better than any brand I've seen. If you're so disappointed with Acura's, go get yourself another car and whine about it somewhere else.

smsTL

iTrader: (1)

I think soon there will be no 4G TLers to this site...It turn into

chirik

Exactly, you know NOTHING about the competition.
SH-AWD came late in the game while others already running on AWD systems. Stating it is the best is overstatement because you have no clue about others. Regardless, who's whining? I already made my decision - no more TL when replacement time comes to sell my '05 unless Acura will do a magic (which I seriously doubt now) and delivers both performance/luxury in a single vehicle?

Another thing is I can state what I want and when I want on the public forum and you'll be the last along with another douche bag above who I ask for opinion. The buyers like you remind me why this nation is so stupid and voted twice for Bush along with idiots who compulsively voted for Obama and consider that Joe Biden was a republican VP. Yet care more about what Palin wears and how much spent shopping.

Have fun with ugly and underperformed vehicle.

PetesTL

The thing that I don't understand is when has this board become so full of whiners? Almost every day, all I read around here is "the TL is slow, the TL is ugly, Audi/VW/BMW/Maxima/Infiniti is better, blah, blah, blah"......and all of this complaining is coming from 3G owners.....whereas all the 4G owners including myself are more than satisified with their cars. If these guys think so low of their cars and Acura, get a different car.....why the heck did they buy an Acura in the first place?......what were they expecting, a Ferrari?! If they don't like the direction Acura is going, go buy a different brand...what's so hard about that?

msslp04

Thank you for your opinion! You just don't get it that you are posting an opinion and nothing more!!!!!! Opinions are like bungholes, everyone has one and they all stink!!!!!!!!

If you have ever dealt with the Japanese, you would know it is very difficult to get them to think outside the box at times.

Kevin

PetesTL

Take your hatred and skewed political beliefs somewhere else. What a nut.

chirik

An you'll never will understand because you don't see why majory HATE it and I'm not even talking outside of TL board

Ferrari?
According to your logic unless the car is Ferrari, it's not a sport car? . Unlike idiots who compulsively getting into the new TL without doing a research and comparison, I do along with taking a test drive.

Guess what? TL FAILED against AWD and RWD models I tested including G37, 335i, IS350 and GS350. So where is whining? I simply stated the REALITY

I know truth hurts. So long Acura, your slogan now should be "We don't care about consumer so drive what we want you to drive".

chirik

Skewed? Everyone with an IQ over 80 laughs at people like you. Did you know? Probably not.

You bought your underperformed TL, enjoy! If you like it that's all that matters. This thread is for BIG BOYS who criticize the new generation because we want RESULTS not just fancy interior. One credit goes to Acura by finally offering AWD version but it's too damn HEAVY. Yes I drove it multiple times.

CraigMacDTA

Wow...this thread is like a 40 year going to an all ages jam - LAME! Don't even respond to fleas like this...they're just shit disturbing. By the way...go grade your grade 12 english!

PetesTL

ggesq, I can hear your footsteps. I'm outta here. Please shut this thread down before somebody loses an eye.

chirik

Wow, now you simply proved my point about stupid and compulsive new generation buyers are. For you info, genious the new 2009 TL was designed at the Acura Design Studio in Torrance, California specifically for US Market. Do you know where it is? Obviosly not in Japan, idiot

As far as opinion, you should ask yourself why yours stinks. Unlike you, I provide FACTS why TL is underperformed vehicle, so try again. Also in regards of exterior see above poll on THIS board

chirik

You're a dickbag. It's pathetic that as old as you are, you're so stupid
Try again about English and check your own grammar, moron.

Holy sh!t this 4gen board stinks. I won’t post here anymore and my intention wasn’t to convince the current idiots who purchased this POS. It was more directed towards potential buyers who should stay away of this disgrace called Acura TL and consider real sports cars like G37s/x and 335i/x

TallyCL-S

wow...why all the crude posts...lol

msslp04

I do believe it is a Japanese owned company. You must be one of those that spews whatever on the internet but would not say anything face-to-face.

Bye now, Kevin

ggesq

iTrader: (1)

chirik- consider this a warning. The next insult you make here or anywhere else on AZ and your going on a vacation. You need to re-read the rules for posting on AZ. If you want to call people names and belittle them, do it in Ramblings. I'm sure they will love you there.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

BMEP stands for "Brake Mean Effective Pressure." It refers to the average pressure that acts on the piston during the engine’s four strokes. The higher it is, the more the design has been optimised. It takes into account engine rpm, engine volume and engine power output. It’s the only equation to use when comparing engines from the perspective of saying which is more highly developed. Since you said the J series is obsolete/outdated, that's why I showed you the BMEP values of various cars in this class.

Everyone here knows that the TL isn't the fastest in its class, nobody says it is anyways. There's no need to point out the obvious. Even I mentioned that many many times. All I said is that it's on par with some of the cars in its class, namely the CTS, C350, and A4. I'm afraid it's against your argument once you bring in numbers achieved by actual owners. Not sure if you've seen it yet, but one of our members, Wavehogger, has already conducted tests in his 09 TL SH-AWD with videos. He achieved 0-60 in the mid 5's and 1/4 mile in the mid 14's. Again, go check out the videos yourself. The link is posted on this site.

It's simple why the J series doesn't make as much power as the G37 or 335i, it's because one is DOHC, and one is DOHC Turbo. Not sure if you are familiar with DOHC vs SOHC, but basically, an engine with a DOHC design can rev higher and usually improves high end torque and power. SOHC cannot rev as high. That's why the best Honda engines are always DOHC as found in the NSX and various Type R models. Yes, the 335i, IS350, and G37 will all smoke the TL in the straight line, but they will also smoke the A4, CTS, and C350.

What's your point? The TL has been selling better than the G (41000 vs 43000 YTD). In other words, this can be applied to the G too,

"since the 3-series BMW which is altogether older, more expensive and smaller in any comparable trim sold almost twice as many cars last month compared to the brand spanking new G37"

Silva-type-s

iTrader: (3)

guys i think were all geting bent out of shape over a members opinion. to each is own. the new TL costs about the same as the 08 g35 sedan. if you didnt buy the G that means you didnt like it or preferred the acura more. the TL does lack in performance compared to others but its still one the best selling acura's today, so what does that say? people want the car lacking in perfoamnce. maybe they want it for another reason.

If the people dont like acura's, buy something else.. if you dont like acura's and you still bought one then you're either brave or stupid so tuff shit do an insureance job or wreck it. for a single cam with less horsepower to keep up with a 7 or 8 speed car with more power who's the loser?

Im not a hater just. people are entitled to their opinions. you just got mine

kssod

wow, i can't believe the hatred spewed by chirik. Please remove him from the discussions.

SebringSilver

This is another one of those surreal threads, like the TL vs. A4 thread.

There's something very wacky going on here. Oh well, at least it keeps Acurazine interesting!

P.S. Since when did the Infiniti G35/G37 and BMW 335i become "real sports cars"?

Hugh9269

I wondered the same thing! Sports orientated sedans, but not sports cars.

Zero523

Geez. Some of you guys seriously need to get a life. Does ones opinion about a car (or whatever the forum is about) really hurt your feeling that bad??

This is a Forum. anyone is entitled to share their opinion.

Some of the things mentioned are true. get over it.

Obviously you saw the title of this thread. if you knew you were going to be insulted then why would you bother coming in??

Should everyone feel affraid of sharing their opinions now with out being (whats the word you guys use?) Flamed?

Obviously one can be helpful without insulting the other person. At first you guys "flamed" kssod. chill out man. geez. just respond to his post nicely with FACTS. as opposed to calling him or this thread lame / tool.

juruki

iTrader: (2)

Why are you only talking about performance? Nobody buys a TL because they want to race it and go to the 1/4 mile and most dont even care about 0-60. I bought the TL because i liked how smooth it rides and because its damn comfortable...

bmode

I hear ya Zero and your right, we need to chill, it's childish, but just consider the original post title he could of posted a nicer title as others have stated above. Posting the initial thoughtless rude comment will get rude comments back, don't cha think? And who's to say what's fast and not fast? He also said it "seems" in his statement, meaning that he hasn't driven the very cars he talks about, just on paper. Most of us test drove these cars before we made our purchase, I know me and Pete did. Yes the new TL is slow and heavy, but it's faster than my 05' TL, and I'm happy with it which is all that matters. The mods should of closed this thread along time ago, as no good can come from it.

Steven Bell

iTrader: (2)

Holy crap you guys...are you still bitching and moaning at each other???

SelinUniNoLimit is right-so is bmode. After reading 2 pages of this, I forgot what the original question to this thread was.

I hate cars

x2

I hate cars

I've read your posts and there are many I agree with even though I don't want to admit it due to your tone.

However just having DOHC vs SOHC, AWD vs RWD, V8 vs V6, etc. doesn't mean anything.

Unfortunately the average person sees "V8", "AWD", and "DOHC" and assumes all of these make the car better even if the OHV RWD V6 car next door outperforms it.

Acura is outgunned in acceleration for sure, no one can dispute that, but who buys a FWD NA V6 sedan to blaze down the dragstrip? Maybe some clueless 18yr old ricers but not most people. It does not bother me one bit that the BMW sitting next to me could out accelerate me. I never even floor my car. I have better than average power and that's all I need.

And all I can say after test driving a couple 335s, I was sorely disappointed after all the internet hype. It's just not fast enough to overcome it's other shortcomings over the TL. If it ran 11s I might consider it and even that would be a lot of compromise for a daily driver.

If you get your kicks driving a 13 second car, you have never been in a fast car. I lump all these cars into the same acceleration category- slightly sporty. I don't really care which one is faster.