Acura's Response to Excessive Oil Consumption
#201
I'm afraid you're misinformed, There is no internal combustion engine that does not consume oil. Absolutely all engines consume oil, some are consuming more others are less, but absolutely everyone consume
#202
Latent car nut
iTrader: (2)
Okay, now you're just being silly. When I said "...do not consume any oil..." I should thing it would be obvious I was referring to engines which consume a quart or two or three between oil changes. That said, I'd be surprised if my J32 has consumed more than three ounces in the last 8,000 miles; that in my book qualifies as not consuming any oil.
#203
6G TLX-S
All engines consume oil.
But Honda engines, all except the J37 3.7L-V6, are historically almost bullet-proof in oil consumption. They rarely need to top up with fresh oil in between oil changes.
So when the J37 is burning oil, in between oil changes, at a rate measured in quarts, something is not right with that Honda engine.
On the other hand, Audi/Volkswagen vehicles are notorious to burn engine oil.
Thus, excessive oil consumption is the norm for Audi/Volks, but never for Honda (until the debut of the J37).
But Honda engines, all except the J37 3.7L-V6, are historically almost bullet-proof in oil consumption. They rarely need to top up with fresh oil in between oil changes.
So when the J37 is burning oil, in between oil changes, at a rate measured in quarts, something is not right with that Honda engine.
On the other hand, Audi/Volkswagen vehicles are notorious to burn engine oil.
Thus, excessive oil consumption is the norm for Audi/Volks, but never for Honda (until the debut of the J37).
#204
All engines consume oil.
But Honda engines, all except the J37 3.7L-V6, are historically almost bullet-proof in oil consumption. They rarely need to top up with fresh oil in between oil changes.
So when the J37 is burning oil, in between oil changes, at a rate measured in quarts, something is not right with that Honda engine.
On the other hand, Audi/Volkswagen vehicles are notorious to burn engine oil.
Thus, excessive oil consumption is the norm for Audi/Volks, but never for Honda (until the debut of the J37).
But Honda engines, all except the J37 3.7L-V6, are historically almost bullet-proof in oil consumption. They rarely need to top up with fresh oil in between oil changes.
So when the J37 is burning oil, in between oil changes, at a rate measured in quarts, something is not right with that Honda engine.
On the other hand, Audi/Volkswagen vehicles are notorious to burn engine oil.
Thus, excessive oil consumption is the norm for Audi/Volks, but never for Honda (until the debut of the J37).
#206
ENGINE (PWS)
-
- Date ReportedOCTOBER 19, 2016
- NHTSA Reference#10087445
- TSB Reference#BTS160705
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- Date ReportedOCTOBER 06, 2016
- NHTSA Reference#10086989
- TSB Reference#BPAS10062016902
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- Date ReportedOCTOBER 03, 2016
- NHTSA Reference#10086986
- TSB Reference#BPAS10032016904
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- Date ReportedSEPTEMBER 15, 2016
- NHTSA Reference#10086261
- TSB Reference#BPAS09152016902
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- Date ReportedSEPTEMBER 09, 2016
- NHTSA Reference#10086202
- TSB Reference#BPAS09092016901
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- Date ReportedAUGUST 31, 2016
- NHTSA Reference#10086134
- TSB Reference#BPAS08312016902
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- Date ReportedJULY 28, 2016
- NHTSA Reference#10084583
- TSB Reference#B-PAS-07282016-9
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#207
Drifting
^^ As noted in the TSBs, some 3.7s have used oil; some use a lot. Acura is aware of the problem and for some customers has replaced pistons, rings, heads and even short blocks when the consumption exceeds a quart/1,000 miles.
Maybe Acura knows, but from this forum, there seems to be no common denominator as to why some 3.7 motors use oil, why some use a lot of oil, and why some use none. That is the big question.
If yours is using a lot of oil (more than 1 quart/1000) and you're under warranty or just out, you should take the car to your dealer to confirm the excess usage and then to have Acura perform a warranty or good will repair.
Good luck.
Maybe Acura knows, but from this forum, there seems to be no common denominator as to why some 3.7 motors use oil, why some use a lot of oil, and why some use none. That is the big question.
If yours is using a lot of oil (more than 1 quart/1000) and you're under warranty or just out, you should take the car to your dealer to confirm the excess usage and then to have Acura perform a warranty or good will repair.
Good luck.
#208
^^ As noted in the TSBs, some 3.7s have used oil; some use a lot. Acura is aware of the problem and for some customers has replaced pistons, rings, heads and even short blocks when the consumption exceeds a quart/1,000 miles.
Maybe Acura knows, but from this forum, there seems to be no common denominator as to why some 3.7 motors use oil, why some use a lot of oil, and why some use none. That is the big question.
If yours is using a lot of oil (more than 1 quart/1000) and you're under warranty or just out, you should take the car to your dealer to confirm the excess usage and then to have Acura perform a warranty or good will repair.
Good luck.
Maybe Acura knows, but from this forum, there seems to be no common denominator as to why some 3.7 motors use oil, why some use a lot of oil, and why some use none. That is the big question.
If yours is using a lot of oil (more than 1 quart/1000) and you're under warranty or just out, you should take the car to your dealer to confirm the excess usage and then to have Acura perform a warranty or good will repair.
Good luck.
#209
The reason is initially in the wrong engine break-in period. With cast-iron sleeves, the incorrect running-in can lead to the combustion of the combustion chamber and a significant reduction in the engine life. In the case of J37, this is the nickel-silicon coating of the cylinders, which, if not correctly run-in, substantially wipes out the compression and oil-ring rings, which leads to oil consumption. At absolutely not right break-in and overheating, even scratches on the walls of the cylinder are possible which leads to extreme oil consumption, which leads to the replacement of a short block. Similar problems with the engine V8 BMW, V8 Porsche, V-6 and V-8 Mercedes Benz and others with the technology of nickel-silicon coating of the cylinders
#210
well, i just stopped in to talk to the service department at my dealer. service adviser said they have to start the oil consumption test with the following procedure: oil change performed by them, followed by 3 check-ins at 1,000 mile intervals. i told him that the oil has just been changed, but he insisted that if i want acura's participation in fixing the issue, they have to perform the oil change. anyone who's done this can confirm?
anyway, i have an appointment for next saturday for the B12 service even though i already changed the oil and both air filters. he also reiterated that 1quart in 1000 miles will be considered normal per acura.
anyway, i have an appointment for next saturday for the B12 service even though i already changed the oil and both air filters. he also reiterated that 1quart in 1000 miles will be considered normal per acura.
#211
Latent car nut
iTrader: (2)
Yes, regardless of manufacturer, if you want an oil consumption test run, you must have the dealership perform an oil change at the inception of the test.
#212
#213
At 20% oil life remaining, I took a turn and my Low Oil flashed on my Nav system, but no engine light, it flashed but went off really quick. I have noticed louder Valve train noise the last two weeks but just figured it is getting colder out. Pulled the oil level stick. Bone dry. I had to add just over 2.5 Quarts. In 5500 miles. About 1 Quart every 2200 miles. So no where close to the 1 Quart per 1000 mile issue.
I read on some other threads about using European Castrol EDGE 0W-40 A3/B4 Full Synthetic Motor Oil. So I bought a jug and will change the oil and monitor the results of consumption my next oil change.
Also I am at 192000 miles. This is the first time this has happened / noticed.
I read on some other threads about using European Castrol EDGE 0W-40 A3/B4 Full Synthetic Motor Oil. So I bought a jug and will change the oil and monitor the results of consumption my next oil change.
Also I am at 192000 miles. This is the first time this has happened / noticed.
#214
At 20% oil life remaining, I took a turn and my Low Oil flashed on my Nav system, but no engine light, it flashed but went off really quick. I have noticed louder Valve train noise the last two weeks but just figured it is getting colder out. Pulled the oil level stick. Bone dry. I had to add just over 2.5 Quarts. In 5500 miles. About 1 Quart every 2200 miles. So no where close to the 1 Quart per 1000 mile issue.
I read on some other threads about using European Castrol EDGE 0W-40 A3/B4 Full Synthetic Motor Oil. So I bought a jug and will change the oil and monitor the results of consumption my next oil change.
Also I am at 192000 miles. This is the first time this has happened / noticed.
I read on some other threads about using European Castrol EDGE 0W-40 A3/B4 Full Synthetic Motor Oil. So I bought a jug and will change the oil and monitor the results of consumption my next oil change.
Also I am at 192000 miles. This is the first time this has happened / noticed.
i just returned from the dealer, and i'm officially on the oil consumption test. the test paperwork attached to the work order has a paragraph on it that if the consumption is a quart for every 1,000-3,000 miles then the service dept should contact acura to see if additional diagnostics are available. in other words even though they consider 1qt in 1,000 miles normal, they are open to looking into issue further if the consumption is as little as 1qt in 3,000 miles.
#215
Drifting
Make sure it's not filled above the upper line after the oil change. Some have reported this happening with some dealers so that after 2K miles, the oil level is still at the "normal" mark, even though the car has already used oil.
One thing that everyone (who experiences some consumption) seems to experience, which probably offers a clue as to why some 3.7s use oil, is that the oil consumption seems to accelerate as more miles pile up after an oil change. In other words, there may be little or no oil usage for the first 2-3K miles after a change, but then greater oil consumption as the car accumulates additional miles after that point.
One thing that everyone (who experiences some consumption) seems to experience, which probably offers a clue as to why some 3.7s use oil, is that the oil consumption seems to accelerate as more miles pile up after an oil change. In other words, there may be little or no oil usage for the first 2-3K miles after a change, but then greater oil consumption as the car accumulates additional miles after that point.
#216
^^^ In my experience the consumption rate seems to be linear after the oil change. Prior to my first (and only, so far) oil change (at about 5300 miles on that oil) I had added 1.5 qts, and it was down about 1/2 qt when I had the oil changed. I added 1/2 qt at about 1400 miles after the change. So far the oil level hasn't dropped to the point it would need another 1/2 qt.
#217
One thing that everyone (who experiences some consumption) seems to experience, which probably offers a clue as to why some 3.7s use oil, is that the oil consumption seems to accelerate as more miles pile up after an oil change. In other words, there may be little or no oil usage for the first 2-3K miles after a change, but then greater oil consumption as the car accumulates additional miles after that point.
#218
Drifting
This is true for my '11 MDX. The engine loss 1/2 quart for the first 1600 miles after oil change. Another 1/2 quart on the next 900 miles. Another 1/2 quart on the next 800 miles. Then 1 1/2 quart on the next 1400 miles. In 4700 miles, I lost 3 quarts. The phenomenon does not make sense if the rings are stuck or cylinders scoring otherwise the oil consumption would be uniformed. It seems like something caused the oil to degrade rapidly, and by 3000 mark, the oil is completely pitch black.
#219
Latent car nut
iTrader: (2)
Right, my oil is black by the time it's ready for a change. Other cars I've owned are a dirty brown when it's time for a change, but not black. I'm wondering whether that points to a ring sealing issue, allowing combustion gases to get past the rings and turning the oil black.
- Mobil 1 contains an additive package which darkens to virtual black with the application of heat; even in a brand new engine, Mobil 1 looks black in about 2,000 miles, even though it can typically go another 10,000 miles or more before it becomes unsuitable for the engine.
- Castrol Edge doesn't darken with heat; I've seen this oil still amber in color after 12,000 miles, however, the UOA indicated the oil was very near exhaustion.
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#220
Drifting
^^Thanks. I'm using the blend they put in it at the dealer.
#221
It also depends upon what oil you're using; here are two examples:
- Mobil 1 contains an additive package which darkens to virtual black with the application of heat; even in a brand new engine, Mobil 1 looks black in about 2,000 miles, even though it can typically go another 10,000 miles or more before it becomes unsuitable for the engine.
- Castrol Edge doesn't darken with heat; I've seen this oil still amber in color after 12,000 miles, however, the UOA indicated the oil was very near exhaustion.
#222
My wife's Honda Accord had the same problem, there was a recall on her car (2008) and we got lucky that the dealer we go to reread the bulletin. They did the consumption test and fixed it right away, not sure what they did but it's running well now. Honda AKA Acura knows this has been a problem in the past, I wouldn't accept any settlement from them short of full value of your car, and lifetime warranty on the whole dam car. They have already been sued over this.
http://www.autonews.com/article/2013...-burning-claim
http://www.autonews.com/article/2013...-burning-claim
#223
Drifting
^^ Correct, but this was with a different engine series and a different problem. While there has been a lot of speculation and supposition among 3.7 TL owners as to why some of our TLs use oil, there's been no consensus as to the cause of the issue. But the 3.7 V6 is different from your wife's Accord motor (and virtually all other Honda motors) in that it has silicon (not steel) cylinder liners. My understanding is that the issue with the 8th Gen Accords was due to a known piston ring problem. Generally, old usage among most Honda and Acura products is extremely rare, including our former '03 Accord that had 203K miles on the clock when we sold it.
#224
Burns exactly 1qt per 1k miles
Ive owned my 12 TL 3.7 since Dec of 2014 when I bought it with 18k miles. When the odometer hit 32k miles, the car began burning oil like crazy. The first 1k miles after the oil change, the car only burns 1/2qt . Every 1k miles after that it consistently burns exactly 1 qt. It now has 68k miles.
I never reported it to the dealer since all the threads at the time stated they don’t do anything to rectify the issue if it’s within the 1qt per thousand miles.
Ive kept accurate records reflecting this, but there is probably nothing that can be done as the car is out of warranty and I didn’t report it earlier.
I’m taking the car in for the torque converter judder update and I’m wondering if I should even bother saying anything sine I don’t live near a dealer and it’ll be more of a pita to go back after every 1k miles. I love the car beside this issue, other than a tea kettle whistle sound that it’s been making after it warms up. From everything I’ve read it sounds like a bad propellor shaft. Lol maybe I just end up trading it in which is a shame because I love it otherwise.
I never reported it to the dealer since all the threads at the time stated they don’t do anything to rectify the issue if it’s within the 1qt per thousand miles.
Ive kept accurate records reflecting this, but there is probably nothing that can be done as the car is out of warranty and I didn’t report it earlier.
I’m taking the car in for the torque converter judder update and I’m wondering if I should even bother saying anything sine I don’t live near a dealer and it’ll be more of a pita to go back after every 1k miles. I love the car beside this issue, other than a tea kettle whistle sound that it’s been making after it warms up. From everything I’ve read it sounds like a bad propellor shaft. Lol maybe I just end up trading it in which is a shame because I love it otherwise.
#225
Drifting
^^ Why is your car out of warranty? Powertrain is 6 years, 70K miles, I believe. Get it in before that expires; if you are using a quart per 1000, they should do something for you.
#227
Drifting
That is their standard. I'd have it checked out and do the oil consumption test before your warranty expires. If it checks out at 1 qt/1000, there's nothing to do, obviously. But if it's over that, they should take care of you. Good luck.
#228
Interesting that 1 qt. per thousand miles is still the auto industry standard for acceptable oil consumption. It's been the same for decades. Yet presumably today's engines have tighter tolerances.
#229
Latent car nut
iTrader: (2)
Well sort of. I've heard anecdotal reports of some manufacturers claiming as low as 600 miles per quart before they are willing to offer the owner any relief. Then there are other manufacturers, where they'll offer relief of some sort up at the two to three-thousand mile per quart consumption level.
#230
Thanks.. it’s going in on Wednesday so I’ll keep you posted. I’m thinking i’m Just going to be sol. Our 2014 mdx was out of its warranty by 2 weeks and they wouldn’t help me out with a shock absorber issue we had. Not that I expected them to, but it may have swayed me to purchase from them in the future. When I spoke with them on the phone this past week they didn’t even want to honor the tc judder update. They also stated that they have no knowledge of acura extending the warranty on the torque converter to 8 years/105k miles (which is the whole reason I thought there was the update)..
It’ll be interesting to see how much they’ll try charging me for the propeller shaft fix.. I still love our Acura’s, but the service I’ve received from piazza acura of reading has been less than satisfactory.
It’ll be interesting to see how much they’ll try charging me for the propeller shaft fix.. I still love our Acura’s, but the service I’ve received from piazza acura of reading has been less than satisfactory.
#231
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American Honda is extending the warranty coverage on the piston rings and pistons for affected vehicles to 8 years from the original date of purchase or 125,000 miles, whichever comes first.
Acura will be issuing a service bulletin in the future, so stay tuned.
Acura will be issuing a service bulletin in the future, so stay tuned.
#232
Instructor
I am hoping they release this soon my car is reaching that 8 years time line. I can definitely take my car in now to document this but I am afraid they may charge me
#233
Drifting
^They shouldn't charge you for the consumption test. Knowing this information, I'm going to watch mine more carefully. My 8 years is up next March.
#234
Drifting
Thanks for the very helpful information. Any sense as to the timing of the service bulletin's release?
#235
Make sure it's not filled above the upper line after the oil change. Some have reported this happening with some dealers so that after 2K miles, the oil level is still at the "normal" mark, even though the car has already used oil.
One thing that everyone (who experiences some consumption) seems to experience, which probably offers a clue as to why some 3.7s use oil, is that the oil consumption seems to accelerate as more miles pile up after an oil change. In other words, there may be little or no oil usage for the first 2-3K miles after a change, but then greater oil consumption as the car accumulates additional miles after that point.
One thing that everyone (who experiences some consumption) seems to experience, which probably offers a clue as to why some 3.7s use oil, is that the oil consumption seems to accelerate as more miles pile up after an oil change. In other words, there may be little or no oil usage for the first 2-3K miles after a change, but then greater oil consumption as the car accumulates additional miles after that point.
#236
Instructor
When I started mine, I wasn't charged for the act of checking the oil level every 1000 miles, but I was charged the ~$40 or so for the initial conventional oil change that they start the oil consumption test with.
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JM2010 SH-AWD (12-15-2017)
#237
Burning Brakes
My 09 sits at 160k miles and I add about a quart/1000miles. I would say the situation got worse after 80k miles or so. Now the car always has a 5qt oil bottle in the trunk.
#238
#239