23109VC

I currently have a 2G RL. I've considered trading it in for a 4th gen TL SH-AWD. I have no driven the 6MT, and while I like hte idea of shifting...I honestly think I'd rather get an auto.... BUT... if the 6AT is coming out soon.. it would make me want to perhaps wait and hold out fo ra year or two until there is a good deal on a 6AT... *if* the performance of the 6AT is going to be substantuially better than the 5AT...

i wonder how close the performance willc ome to the 6MT? no auto will ever be like rowing your own gears..and unless Acura substantially speeds up how their auto-manuals shift gears it still won't be close to a 6MT...but maybe it will be closer....

my RL shifts automaticallly like a snail... the manual shift / paddle shift feature is nice when I really want to hold a certain gear - like when taking tunrs and I want to keep it in a lower gear to make SH-AWD work better.... but it still shifts slowly...

i'd probably be plenty happy wiuh a "regular" 5AT SH-AWD.... but if the 6AT will be FAR FAR better...if it's out soon enouhg I"ll hold off...

crxb

I drove a loaner MDX 2011 w/ the 6AT - all I noticed was a littler lower rpm at highway speeds. " but if the 6AT will be FAR FAR better." - nice but I doubt Far far...
Going from the 3G 5AT to the 4G 5AT - I was impressed w/ the smoothness of the shifts

muggs

I think you'll have to wait until Acura comes up with their version of a dual clutch
(direct-shift) tranny to see "far far" better performance.

docboy

I agree. In terms of performance, there is nothing like rowing your own boat. IMHO, a typical automatic transmission just robs too much power. The TL's 6MT vs the 5AT removes almost 1.0 second off 0-60 (at least per various auto magazines), a HUGE difference IMHO.

Unless Acura comes up with a dual clutch variant, I think the 6AT will benefit fuel economy more so than performance.

FallenTSX

don't forget to add that the 6MT is 80lbs lighter than the AT, and most of that weight savings is from the tranny

-DeL

winstrolvtec

The 12' is believed to be here in a few months and we are probably about a year away from anything similar to the type of deals we see on the 10' right now. The performance difference for everyday driving won't be that significant compared to the current 5AT IMO but should represent itself fairly well on paper. That goes for gas mileage too, which should be at least one mile better both city and highway.

The 6AT should be close to the current 6MT in terms of acceleration but then again the 6MT is lighter, has small suspension enhancements and stronger mounts and bushings which makes it the slightly sportier version.

muggs

Sorry, I know that I posted this somewhere before, but it's a list of all the changes
that go along with
the addition of the manual in the 4G.
http://www.templeofvtec.net/articles...icle_id=791061
I'm looking forward to getting my mitts on the one I ordered
if it ever shows up.

neilman

If the 'sport' mode may be important to you...the 6AT will work better. I have the 5AT and gave up on using the sport mode as I find it pretty useless. The shifting from 3rd to 4th does not happen until 100mph...which is pretty impractical. There are other posts about this issue.

I was given a zdx loaner with 6AT and the shift from 3rd to 4th happens much earlier...so using sport mode for some spirited driving becomes more feasible. If/when I use sport mode now I have to use the paddle shift to go into 4th...but once you do that the only way to get back into auto sport mode is to shift to d then back to s. A real pain...so I just gave up on it and no longer use sport mode. I use either the paddles or pedal to the metal on d.

YetiTL

If we look at RL and MDX, the move from 5AT to 6AT will cut 0.5 sec for 0-60 and add 1 MPG to bothcity/highway.

So while we may be able to hit 5.4-5.5 and 13.9-14.0 with the 6AT, the AT will lack the launch ability of the 6MT which is probably good for another 0.2-0.3 (Yes I'm pulling numbers out of my ass right now). Of course, Acura could enable us to use our AT to braque-torque and launch but I fear they are frightened enough to release a new AT, they surely don't want us to b-torque the shit out of the new 6AT!

But for the record, I'm planning to trade my 5AT for a 6MT ASAP if I can find a good enough offer (along with full skirts, tints and new 19'' lightweight alloy wheels and midnight chrome grille and rear trim).

jasonwdp10

not sure if you guys saw this, but here's a recent 2011 RL review:
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...t_drive_review

"Acura claims that the six-speed automatic’s extra ratio allows the RL to hit 60 about 0.5 second quicker than before, while gaining 1 mpg in the city and 2 on the highway"

I'm expecting the TL to have similar performance/efficiency gains. Something like 0-60 in 5.5 or less, and slightly better FE overall.

Though personally, I don't think moving from a TL to another TL (of the same generation especially) would make me happy. I'd get bored pretty quickly and think its a poor financial decision. I think i'll wait for the next gen TL or another future acura vehicle.

In this article: http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dl...312209984/1274

Acura essentially admits honda has had their leash too tight, and will FINALLY let it loose a bit in 2012+ What this means? It means acura has not been able to give us their best, and I don't expect a MMC to fix all of that. I think i'll gladly wait for the next gen acuras.. since that's when they'll apparently be producing their most capable vehicles. I'm honestly a bit disappointed that every news article about acura has them changing their mission statement, admitting they aren't as good as other brands, or have a handful of dealers complaining about the lineup not having enough differentiation.

omgthedonny

I have a 6MT and almost every day when driving like an asshole I'm reminded of how much more glad I am I got the MT instead of the AT

docboy

jspagna1

At my age I'm sticking with the AT. If I am paying 40 grand for a car I want comfort & luxury as well. IMO.

crxb

A new Sequential SportShift 6-speed automatic transmission is used that not only generates improved acceleration performance, but also delivers improved fuel economy. In addition, the 6-speed transmission teams with a new multi-clutch torque converter that not only has a higher maximum torque rating, but also has a new converter lock-up assembly. The lock-up assembly uses multiple lock-up disks that generate nearly double the facing area of a typical torque converter. The lock-up assembly not only reduces heat build-up during operation, but also allows for lock-up activation during a much wider range of driving conditions, which, in turn, generates improved fuel economy. As a result of the new 6-speed transmission and torque converter, city/highway/combined fuel economy* is now 17/24/20— an increase of 2 mpg in highway driving.

from: 2011 Acura RL Delivers More Refinement and Improved Performance

http://hondanews.com/channels/acura-...ed-performance


12/21/2010 - TORRANCE, Calif.

dethred

I would have gotten the 6MT if Honda didn't start sucking at making transmissions in the late 90's. I have had enough of a nightmare with my wife's Civic Si 6MT to stay away.

I think most of the performance difference (other than the power-sapping Torque converter of the AT) comes from the fact that you can launch the TL from any RPM with the MT.

That being said, someone with a MT needs to make a 0-60 video doing a 6,000rpm launch.

unlemming

The 6MT also has pretty different gearing, besides having the extra gear, that makes it quicker. Top gear on the 6MT is also shorter than fifth gear on the 5AT so it's clearly not geared for fuel efficiency .

TL 5AT TL 6MT RL 6AT
-------------------------------
12.231 13.9392 12.4992
7.2933 8.1408 7.812
4.8471 5.8752 5.5428
3.1257 4.3392 3.9804
2.2197 3.264 2.79
2.6496 2.0832

winstrolvtec

Better launching has a lot to do with it and so does the gearing, lighter weight, and as you said, the reduced power loss but surprisingly the 6MT rev limiter is capped at 4K for launching. If it allowed for a complete clutch dump, it might have been able to break into the sub 5 sec 0-60 range.

Thanks, those are interesting ratios, I didn't realize the specs were up at Acura for the 11' RL. Definitely an inprovement both in fuel and performance but not as agressive as the 6MT. I wonder if the TL 6AT will be geared differently maybe at least a shorter final drive but in either case better mileage and probably cutting the performance gap of the 5AT and 6MT in half is a huge step in the right direction.

George Knighton

I understand. But I'm probably older than you and consider it even more important to keep the hand/eye coordination properly trained.

:-)

It is reasonable to believe that the performance of a 2012 TL SH-AWD 6AT would fall between that of the 2010 TL SH-AWD 5AT and that of the 2010 TL 6-6.

The 6AT will not get the revised spring rates, bushings and motor mounts of the 6-6, and the 6-6 will continue to cater to a rather small and unique customer base, a customer base that Acura probably regrets addressing because of all the bashing it has taken over producing such an excellent automobile that just looks so unusual and apparently evokes an emotional response different from the one that was predicted in the focus groups.

It's almost as if the same people who loved all this in the 2008 focus groups hate it in the 2009 focus groups. I just don't know, and I'm beyond caring.

Most of the money's going into safety and alternative fuel programmes. If it were not for that, an educational programme might have been marketed to the American public that would have changed our perspective, generally. The 2009 TL design is one of those "you get it or you don't" things, and most people "don't."

For example, nobody talks about the deliberate attempt to make the car as ecologically sound as possible. There are very, very few artificial materials in the interior of the TL, and ones that are there are made of recycled material. And that metal trim really is metal...it's not plastic. There's also more natural leather in the car than you would expect in this price class, including the padding on top of the fascia...no PVC gasses making people allergic or to cause any kind of lung diseases.

But nobody thinks about this or talks about it.

Being socially responsible is just a waste of time, apparently.

muggs

Excellent post, George. You and I are about the same age, and I agree about keeping the senses as sharp as possible. Just as important, for me, it's about having fun driving the car. This car should be very entertaining in either form, but I really never enjoyed pushing an automatic around. I realize that I'm in a big-time minority here, but I've always felt this way when it comes to driving. Hell, I wish I could have kept my S 2000, but at 6''3", it was killing my back getting in and out of it. I'm told I'll be getting my '11 six speed on 12/30. Can't wait to join the club.
Merry Christmas to me!

Glashub

Really? I never knew this. Makes me feel even better about the car. As far as the grill goes....every time I want to feel better about it I think about the Mazda grill or the Lincoln grill.