winstrolvtec

This continues to get overblown and it's easy to see that those predictions were very premature. You have to understand that the TL barely sold over 70k units in 2006 which was the last best selling record year for both Acura and the TL, as it was for most brands. Then the 3G starting slowing down in 07 and 08 which wasn’t entirely due to economic reasons as the model was just getting old and everywhere. So it was not crazy for Acura to think that they could hit 70k again with a new model but this was before mid 2008 which saw a major hit to the automotive industry (mainly the luxury brands) with the peak of it happening at the time of the 4G release.

In 09 Acura sold about half the total number of vehicles than it did in 06 mainly do to economic reasons, proved by the decline of the entire industry and other brands within the same decline range, so you figure a decent number of TL's sold for 09 (in mist of the crisis) would be 35k units (half), considering the circumstances. Well they sold 33,620 so it's not very far off and everyone knows the TSX has picked up a large percentage of sales within Acura compared to the past and that would have happened no matter what the TL looked like because the TL moved away from it’s previous market intentionally. The MDX being the current Acura best seller has less to do with the 4G TL than it does with the MDX just being rather popular right now and the SUV market picking up at this time in general since gas went down a bit.

The biggest reason for the TL decline is obviously the economy, then the new size, pricing, and positioning which has the TSX and the added V6 as a near equivalent to the former 3G TL, and the TL SH as sort of a base RL, and the FWD TL as something in between the two. The last and least major effect would be due to the bold over styling, but I am not so sure there are even any numbers that directly support that theory very well. It's like I have said before, it's hard to establish just how much the car is down due to the economy but it's almost impossible to determine if and just how much it is down due to the reception and opinion of the styling.

If you look at the 2006 sales figures, again we see the 3G TL made up 35% of total Acura sales for that year and in 2009 the 4G TL made up 32%. In 06 the 3G TL made up 59% of total Acura sedan sales, in 09 the 4G TL made up 52% of all Acura sedan sales. There is not that much of an additional decline (styling, etc) showing in these numbers besides the economy and a lot of it can be explained by looking at the TSX. In 06 the TSX made up 24% of the sedan base, in 09 it was 45%.

So whether the TSX market is growing because it’s simply improved and advanced, or because of the TL styling direction, or more likely due to the new sizes, sticker prices, and market positions, is hard to say but IMO, I don’t see that Acura or the TL has really suffered any further outside of economic reasons compared to 06, which also affects just about every other brand at the same time. As many of us have tried to say a number of times, I see an economic decline in addition to a market shift (size, price, position) in these two vehicles, particularly in the TL with little to due with how anything looks. I don’t dispute the negative reactions to the styling but I don’t necessarily see a representation of that in the numbers. If anything it’s a lot smaller than most are making it out to be.

Furthermore, Acura is the 5th best selling luxury brand (6th if Buick and the LaCrosse count) which is the same position they held in 2006, again their last best selling, record setting year and this is despite losing the popular RSX. If the TL was really suffering as bad as people think, the brand wouldn’t be in the same selling position. We could say that is due to other vehicles in the lineup and not the TL but looking at only the sedans, which are really just the TL and TSX, they currently have the 4th best selling sedan lineup for a luxury brand (including Buick) which just so happens to be one better than the 5th place they held in 06 and the TL wouldn’t also still be the best selling Acura sedan if things were as they are made out to be. There are tons of opinions but opinion is never reality, and while these numbers and percentages are not foolproof, they are a better representation of reality than a bunch of opinions.

Again, I am not dismissing any negative reactions the vehicle faces and I do think a tweak is in order and it would still benefit from that but it's not as bad as everyone wants to make it out to be, both in styling and in sales, once you put it into perspective. There are reasons why some do this but I am not getting that psychological right now. Lets just say the styling and sales are being used as a scapegoat, an excuse or some kind of justification. I know there is a lot of negative reactions to it but most of it is coming from the internet and as we know the smallest groups tend to have loudest voices, especially when it comes to the net.

black label

I think most of the people here do want Acura to succeed. Personally, I don't want the TL to be a niche vehicle for people who like the style. I want it to be a vehicle that everyone looks at and says, "I want one." Right now they are leaning more towards the former. Acura has recognized this as well and are working on an accelerated plan to correct it. They build the TL in the US for a reason, they don't want their highest volume vehicle to built where it is sold. Right now the TL isn't getting the job done. In the end when it is all said and done, they will sell more 2010 TL units than the 2010 MDX but it will take several extra months to do so.

The unfortunate part is that the style has kept many people away from what is truly the best real sports sedan Acura has ever made. You can argue all you want about the old Legend, Vigor, Integra, or all previous TL's but the performance of the Acura sedan was raised substantially with the TL SH-AWD. If they could put the whole package together they could have a runaway hit. That's what I want from the Gen 4.5 TL.

NwTSXmt

why would I have a problem with what you do with your money?...

NwTSXmt

"The unfortunate part is that the style has kept many people away from what is truly the best real sports sedan Acura has ever made. You can argue all you want about the old Legend, Vigor, Integra, or all previous TL's but the performance of the Acura sedan was raised substantially with the TL SH-AWD. If they could put the whole package together they could have a runaway hit. That's what I want from the Gen 4.5 TL.[/QUOTE]


I dont want every other vehicle on the road to be a 4genTL, like 3genTL, BMW3, IS250,350,Gs..etc

jasonwdp10

You should get the RL. The slowest selling, and now (recent years) least common acura on the road. I rarely see any, and i live in socal.

racegypsy

I was one of those that aided the sales figures. I must admit that I was aghast the first time I saw a 4G. I held off for a long time but I needed to get into another car for mileage reasons on my old one and couldn't resist the 6MT SH-AWD any longer. I held my nose and took advantage of the .9% financing and dealer anxiety to get a good deal. (I only held my nose since I couldn't get my hands around the car's nose.) Great car but it's losing some of the driver's touch with hypersensitive steering. Hard to shift without some steering input. Maybe I'll adjust, but I didn't have to in my 07 6MT TL.

black label

Then you are secretly hoping that the 4th gen TL is a failure because Acura needs it to be their best selling model for the profitability of the company.

winstrolvtec

It is a great car and I find that people are nowhere near as offended by it in reality compared to what you read about on the internet. In fact most of us have had the opposite reactions.

It has lost a little driver's feel compared to the TLS but at the same time it is more capable but just does not necessarily feel that way in every aspect. I accredit it to wanting to have a bit more of a luxurious approach and feel with it's lighter steering, softer brake feel, and better ride quality, which balances out the extra performance nicely IMO. Then again it is not necessrily a type S which concentrates much more on feel, like it did on the 3G compared to the base.

You'll get used to it, I now prefer electric steering over hydraulic. It's light to start and then gets heavier as needed. The weight and feel are not entirely there but the responsiveness and pin point accuracy are. It's really direct and precise and those aspects were missing in the TLS I thought, it's pretty much a complete trade off but a nice overall package.

NwTSXmt

You are kidding right...

NwTSXmt

Thought about it, but the wife would not budge...The TL is hers

TechnoCat

I used to disagree, but you may be right. That's not why I traded mine in. I couldn't handle the comfort and luxury sacrifices. But the 2010 TL SH-AWD 6MT (the only version I care about) is a reasonable upgrade from the 2008 TL Type-S. The Type S was $38,940, my TL SH-AWD 6MT (with Tech) was about $42K list. The SH-AWD adds AWD, speed, additional luxo-touches, and standard (rather than optional) nav with rear camera. In other words, comparably equipped, they cost the same but the 2008 looks better and the 2010 is faster and has AWD and a stick.

Must like the 2010, reviews of the 2008 were that the dash is cluttered (CNet) and that is was less "traditionally luxurious" than its competitors. So these could be viewed as something that people who know the model should expect. (I didn't know the model before-hand.)

Mr Marco