Bearcat94

Poll question for forum members: Do you have a preference as to whether comparison threads or "Which car should I buy" type threads stay in 4G or are moved to Car Talk?



Here's why I ask:

It seems to me - as a (mostly) disinterested observer - that these kinds of threads tend to become contentious and/or argumentative when left in 4G TL. This is of course not true 100% of the time, but it seems to occur with some frequency.

This response to comparision threads is, I think, somewhat natural. You want to defend the car you prefer and you want others to prefer that car as well. When another disagrees with your assesment, the potential for friction increases. I also think that the 4G has had a polarizing effect on the variety of enthusiasts who may find their way to this forum. In some cases this constant question of "like/dislike" has made owners more quick to defend their choice and non-owners more quick to discount the 4G.

To some (lesser?) extent this also happened in 3G TL, but at that time, the 3G forum policy was to move comparison threads to Car Talk. This, imho, defused a lot of arguments and created a healthier owners-forum environment.


It seems to me these kinds of threads occur in this sub-forum more than any of the other sub-forums I visit; it's nearly a daily occurance here. I don't think this makes for a healthy community. I think constantly having to defend, rationalize or support your purchase decision creates a tension that affects the tone of the forum overall.

There have been some off-line discussions on this amongst moderators/admins, but I'm wondering what the membership thinks. There is no promise that a specific policy will be put in place based on poll results. I just want to see where users stand on this (non?)-issue.

saturno_v

I personally think that the recently moved thread about the choice between the TL, A4 and 3 Series should have stayed here.......moderators after all did not move my "The lease game" post which has very little to do with the TL.

My opinion is that any thread that involve choosing a car where one of the potential choice is the TL it should stay in the TL section.

I learned to avoid the Car Talk section because too many people there seems to have an axe to grind against Acura and, frankly, there is not much technical knowledge among that crowd.....very litigious, overboard sarcastic, brand prestige oriented, discussions tend be be very shallow....even when you post facts and numbers they are set aside, irrationally I may add, but maybe it's just me....I don't really know how much thoughtful advice you can really get on that venue....

So a poster asking for advice may definitely get some biased info here but the same is true (negatively) in the "Car Talk" section where I get the impression that Acura is almost a bad word to say...

Stew4HD

After huge amount of angst over the comparison thrads of late, I am gfor moving them to car talk only because the thread seems to become attack/defend threads.

oops, meant to select BC is dilusional!

winstrolvtec

I think there are many who would rather get the info about the 4G and how it compares to other cars from actual 4G owners and their perspectives and/or also in addition to other points of view. Naturally it's different coming from members who have done the same type of comparisons in a real world shopping/comparing and actually going to buy one of these cars scenario. You rarely get that type of info from Car Talk for the obvious reason that virtually no one there has a 4G and the many other points already best summed up by Saturno.

We may be slightly biased but everyone is in one way or another and we do defend the TL often but many of the claims against it are unsubstantiated, yet still the more objective comparisons are done here by far IMO. The option to post the same question or thread in Car Talk is always there. In other words, the poster should decide where they want it and who they want it geared towards.

I think a bigger issue may be why no 4G members post in Car Talk or don't contribute there, especially in a particular comparison which we have a lot of first hand knowledge and experience. There is a reason these threads end up here.

ib_jimmy

Move it. I bet the guys from the BMW and Infinity forum is tired of hearing it too.

jasonwdp10

Move it because we have the same handful of posters posting the exact same information in every "TL vs." thread that is started every other day.

Also move this to car talk so the op's can get less bias answers.

Bearcat94

Sometimes it's a judgement call. And sometimes you judge right, other times you don't.


Regardless of where a thread is, I'm not happy when they turn into this - https://acurazine.com/forums/car-talk-5/decisions-decisions-2012-acura-tl-bmw-3-audi-a4-avant-huh-827735/.

Stew4HD

I see what you mean.. that thread was very civil while it was here, then when it went over there it was run off the rails

Bearcat94

Well, you might think that, but here's one that "ran off the rails" right here in 4G a couple of days ago: https://acurazine.com/forums/4g-tl-2009-2014-123/time-replace-2000-tl-versus-827170/ (that thread has been scrubbed, but if you saw it pre-scrubbing, you know what I mean).

In the thead that was moved to Car Talk, I asked the question: Where are you supposed to have a civil discussion regarding the 4G TL v Car X if you can't do it the model forum and you can't do it in Car Talk?

I've noticed some good members have left (they certianly don't post as much, if at all, anynore) this sub-forum the past year or so and I wonder how much this kind of bickering played a role? I contend it is NOT a good thing.

renedcruz

iTrader: (8)

I think you should apply what your avatar says!

BT9

I tend to think that, on balance, the people who already own the Acura will not want these threads, and people that are still shopping will prefer they stay.

Since the population of this forum consists of a lot more current owners than there are people shopping, I think we already know how this poll will come out.

The titles of these types of threads are usually pretty clear. People that don't like these types of threads could simply exercise a little self-control and just not read these threads (obviously that doesn't work; I'm just sayin'....)

This is a problem of individuals, not thread subjects. A more appropriate and direct solution would be to ban (e.g. for 1 week) the individuals involved. On a second ban within 6 months, a person is banned for a month. Third ban, gone for good. Or whatever the moderators want to use.

This type of situation comes up on various other forums (not just cars) where product brand obsessions exist (e.g. audio, video, power tools). It's seldom the most knowledgable/helpful people that are involved in these skirmishes (that's an important point IMO).

Right now there are no consequences for these individuals. I'd suggest trying some consequences directed at the individuals first, not the subject matter. It works more times than it doesn't.

Bearcat94

I should've made it multiple choice.

JAB00

The TL vs car X thread almost invariably devolves. I don't bother reading them. TL specific threads should be questions on the TL specifically (pricing, specs, etc).

indopinoy

Those threads helped me out a lot in every forum I went to for information. As per the excessive-ness of these threads recently, can't we just make a stickied "comparison" thread? Example: @s2ki there is a car color thread that is stickied and referencing all of the official color threads (a blue thread, a white thread, etc.). Maybe that will help keep things organized? So it would be "Super Official Comparison Thread" and within linking it to separate threads for "TL vs G37", "TL vs TL SHAWD", etc. and so forth.

Just thinking out loud...

Litt

Come on people. Put your big girl panties on. It's only the Internet. Try not to take it too seriously.

Pseudomaniac

iTrader: (1)

Well, there's a difference really; I could put together a really objective 2G vs 3G vs 4G topic providing substantial input as I own/have owned all of the above.

Someone else might march in and throw out the seemingly typical "what do you think about TL vs competitor X" one liner and just sit back and watch the chaos ensue. Call that speculative.

TL vs Car X objective thread - probably a good TL thread.
TL vs Car X speculative thread - probably a good car talk thread.

Monitoring, moderating and differentiating the two = PITA.

Maybe add a "Model comparisons" sub-forum so there's a hole for these things to stay in, and make it easier to catalog and retain valuable information and weed out the useless ones.

My .02

YetiTL

This is not directed toward you BearCat and I wrote it as half light humor, half sarcasm...

Well at one point the questions gets old: we have 12,003,324 threads about Takeda Intake installation and 3-5 threads for the rest of the mods that take eons to devlop (cough cough supercharger cough).

Then we have a couple of usual threads about the rest. After a point, once you gathered all the information you required and you've posted pics and such, what is left to discuss? The only thing left to do is wait for new model or new year changes (see 2012 TL threads) OR start bickering about something relatively pointless to fill the void.

Since Acuras tend to be quite reliable, once you talked about the rear deck rattles, the head restraints and some of the 6MT quirks, there is not much more to be discussed. The braking is great, the cornering is great with SH-AWD, precise steering and a well sorted suspension, the interior, audio and electronics are great, the sport seats are great (except the restraints for some ppl like myself), the car is reliable and will start every morning at -40 C, it's relatively smooth and the potential for modding is relatively restricted due to the lack of aftermarket support...

So you end up with an upscale sedan, competent to pro performer in all areas, that can take a beating a still run great and if you love the look, there is no real reason not to buy one because finding a similar deal with another brand is damn near impossible (leasing vs buying and all that crap besides).

Sooooo it's normal some members become inactives

See that was easy to explain...

My
YetiTL

gibjer

I think Pseudomaniac is onto something.

Create a seperate acura comparison sub-forum where this can be hashed out and researched for new comers. A google search for TL vs 335 is what led me to this site for the first time.

YetiTL

I agree with the idea but biy this forum will become quiet if all the bashing euhh.....comparison threads are moved from here....

jjsC5

This is not a huge forum. I'm on many forums, and you can tell how active they are by looking at the dates on the first page. On the Corvette forum the first page only goes back a couple of hours. On this forum the last thread on page one is over a week old. My point is, why make people look at different forum sections to find threads? Comparison threads are TL related.

I also am amused at the idea of closing threads or moving them because they become contentious. If people don't like how a thread is going, they don't have to open it. In my case, when I see two or three guys duking it out in a pissing match I quit following the thread. People do have choices.

If the forum was a lot more active I would understand moderating it a little more closely. But in this case I have to vote to leave it. I like the comparisons, I like the banter over other cars. Like many members, I am a huge car nut and I like to follow all cars. If it's legitimately being considered a competitor to the TL, leave it here. If they want to discuss the Bugatti Veyron, move it to another section.

BEAR-AvHistory

Quick look when I signed on showed 400 more people viewing the 3G forum then this one. Even the 2G forum had a 100+ more people on it.

The 4G one does not need to be split up into non existence.

PsychDoc

I think it's essential that these threads remain open as it remains clear that a certain segment of the only-too-obviously-mentally-challenged continue to purchase TL's when the --------- is available to them. These poor unfortunates must be cured of their ignorance and must be shown how to get to their nearest BMW dealer to purchase what they should never have had any doubt about in the first place.

Or not.

Hamma Tyme

^^^ What Psycho Doc said! There are many posting members who are informed about Acura and other competitor brands, while others are as blinded as the parents who think their proven guilty child did nothing wrong. Also the word "Troll" is used to describe a non-Acura owner who posts and states anything negative regardless if the poster is correct, while the Kool-Aid drinking know nothing Acura Cheerleaders offering their worthless rants are considered upstanding members.

For example the worthless posts regarding if price was the same, would you rather have a 535 or a TL. Being the poll has ABOUT a 50/50 split, the only result obtained was about 50% of the owners if had the extra money, would had bought the BMW. Now that thread offered alot of worthless BS.

IMHO, there are too many members attempting to compare a TL to other brand who really have no clue WHY one pays more for the privilege of a more expensive automobile. Unfortunately when posters of other brands post an opinion or fact, there are too many taking the post as an attack on their beloved Acura's which is the wrong attitude. There are many non Acura owners who are well informed of other car brands and bring much knowledge to this board. I may be flamed for this post but what the hell, I currently don't own a BMW!

Stew4HD

Ya know, we have every right to defend (drink the Kool Aid) as you non Acura owners are fond of saying. It is true that some people come here to troll AKA cause trouble.

If you all want to give this site over to the BMW/Audi/etc owners to have their fun with and make a mockery of it, then so be it.

Like another member just announced, it's getting too bizarre here and more hassles than its worth. I have had it too. I tried to be helpful here but it's of no use. Enjoy your little love fest.. Time to join Brew0360................. poof

Hamma Tyme

Stu- if you're a Kool-Aid drinker, then yes, you maybe one example of who I'm talking about in my post. But, if you consider yourself a member who brings a wealth of un-biased information regarding Acura’s and other car makers and offering help to new members by adding valued information to threads you are posting, then I'm not including you in my explanation.

To everyone else, there is nothing wrong with being proud of the car purchase you made and the joy and value it brings you each day. But many are blinded from seeing the good in other car makers and short falls of there own. These discussions can be positive for educating forum members and improve Acuras in the future being I’m pretty confident Honda/ Acura reads these forums as BMW reads Bimmerfest to see the tone of their customer base.

Rocketsfan

I would rather they stay in 4G, but only out of pure logic. If I'm looking to buy a 4G, I would like to see why people who bought it chose it over a G37, a CTS, etc. I would also like to see why others decided against buying a 4G, too. It's one of the reasons I come to this forum even though I don't own the car (the other reason is because they're creating UFO's in the 3G forum and it scares me... jk 3G guys - I love you, too).

That being said, I know the reality is the 4G is a pretty divisive topic, and the comparison threads usually turn into redundant bickering, so I guess I'll just have to go to Car Talk get some of the info I'm looking for.