Bearcat94

Yes, they certainly are.

Moneyman2011

I thought so too, but it is less about weight and more about leverage. The 6 speed offers more leverage by having lower gearing, so yes it shifts more, but that is to keep the engine in the optimal TQ range. Also the way it was explained to me, simply adding the 6 speed gave the car an "effective" HP increase of about 40HP, even though the HP ratings are the same from 2011 to 2012. You know the adage, "give me a lever long enough and I can lift the world", well this transmission is the best thing to happen to this car in a long time. I don't know how many milliseconds it takes to shift, but I am told it is within spitting distance of a Ferarri 599 GTB and that shifts in about 100 MS. If that is correct, that is HUGE! Aparently the secret is in the software upgrade and improvements in manufacturing tolerances to produce a better transmision unit. Structurally it is just about indestructable based upon the electronic "nannies", so not even if the new TL was a rental car would it have transmission troubles. In the old days engines would need to be torn down and rebuilt by 100,000 miles and transmissions could need the same anywhere from 50,000 to 150,000 miles. Now the engines and transmissions are designed to go for 200,000 or more miles without a full tear down and rebuild. I have a 2004 TL with 254,000 miles on it and it is the original engine and transmission with NO issues ever. Other than regular maintentance and not driving like a 16 year old, the car has performed great! I am saving it for one of my kids as there is no rust, mechanically it is perfect, paint is great, never in an accident, and just a couple of rattles in the interior, but then again I have them too as I'm also "out of warantee" being an old cocker myself.

If the manufactures continue to improve the manufacturing much more, they are actually hurting future sales of new cars because new ones will still be running "like new" well beyond 100,000 miles and even 200,000 miles if cared for properly.

23109VC

when are we going to see a real performance review of these? are they in the hands of car mags or online review people yet?

when do they hit the dealers?

Moneyman2011

I assume they will get them in March because I have been told they hit dealers in April. I have one set for delivery for early May. Mine will be a 2012 AT SH-AWD, black with umber interior, Advance Package wth remote start installed at the dealer.

deeblew

Any idea what the msrp for the various setups will be?

BLACKURA_NY

iTrader: (6)

^ i want to say the same, but once you add the advance package, i would say... MSRP 47,695 ...

cjTL

iTrader: (2)

^ Yeah the MDX and ZDX with the Advance package are about $10K more than their base price. So probably about right. I'd shoot more for $45K. The RL's base price is $47K ish. That'd make for an awkward overlap until the RL is pulled or redone.

ostrich

Car and Driver claims that the 2012 model would hit the dealerships in mid March, and the price of the TL SH-AWD with "all the trimmings" would be about $44,445, which is about $1000 more than the current TL SH-AWD + Tech:

http://www.caranddriver.com/news/car...nfo-auto_shows

Do you think that they were accurate in the street date and pricing?

deeblew

^The price listed on car and driver is the 2011 MSRP + destination.

My main concern with the 2012 model is how much leeway will be given by dealerships on the price tag. Based on my research on this forum, you can currently get a SH-AWD w/ Tech for around $35,000 in Houston. It's going to be a hard decision for me to decide if the 2012 model is worth an extra $7-9k. Based on the performance numbers given by moneyman and the increased gas mileage, it seems like the difference is probably worth it. Especially with the more "acceptable" look.

03tLsNBP

iTrader: (9)

be patient and wait for deals on the 2012. they will come. Acura realized that they need to sell more TLs.

if you can afford to wait, then wait. dont rush and get a 2011 if thats not what you really want, just because it is cheaper at the moment

jasonwdp10

I just hope it's still a good value. Regardless of what is supposed to be coming after 2012/2013 for acura, I'm still thinking about upgrading to a 2012 TL SHAWD Advanced. Why? because i'm unhappy with my Base model and I'm not getting any younger. I figure that I'd be happier spending the $ getting something I like over being unhappy for another 2-3 years. If the pricing adds $4,000 (or less) over the current TL SHAWD Tech, then I'd seriously consider it. However, if the pricing goes crazy and even gets close to $50k (48-49k) then I'm skipping it.

jasonwdp10

You're absolutely right. Another thing to note, the 2012's are coming out 6 months ahead of schedule, they are supposed to come out in the summer, but the 2011's were cut short. This means we may need to wait at least 1 year to begin seeing deals on these. I guess I'll wait. Save more $ that way.

jharrison

i've seen claims in response to my original 0-60 question that we will see significant performance improvements in the 2012 TL. And one of the claims is from an "inside" source. I want to believe these claims but why wouldn't acura be talking about these improvements in their press release? i realize gas prices have gone up significantly in the last few months but does that justify acura's statement released at the chicago auto show that boast of the 2012's increased mpg but say nothing about increased acceleration? either the claims on this board are greatly exagerated or acura missed an opportunity to get the word out.

Moneyman2011

I just left the dealership an hour ago to confirm my order for the 2012, and I told the salesman that I will not be paying full sticker, not even close. He said that dealers are very motivated to "move floor plan" and that the greedy dealers will be hurting themselves to wait on a sale to potentially grab an extra thousand or two on a deal. I showed him my True Car pricing for a 2011 on an equivalent model and he said that if I showed up with this same pricing from the website, they would honor those deals on a 2012. I told him that I wanted to keep my business with their dealership as I have purchased 6 cars from them in the past 15 years. I said, "I don't see a line of people out your door waiting in line to buy a car". He said, "We will make a deal". I said, "a True Car pricing deal?" He said "yes". This tells me that I should target my price at about $39,000 for the 12 SH-AWD Advance. I asked him what he thought and he said with a smirk on his face, "we will honor that pricing". In other words, he knew I had true information about their hold backs, dealer incentives and such. He is right.

When my Blackbird is on the ground, I will be ready to "fly like and eagle". For you youngins out there, that is not a rap song.

Moneyman2011

What if an elected official stood up right now and said that we should increase spending and expand our national debt? Would that be a popular thing to say in this political climate? Nope. I think it is careful message control by Acura to focus on MPG and let the market then focus on other tangible benefits by adding another gear to the transmission, lowering the gear ratios, and providing more leverage. If it happens that efficiencies in production and engineering create more acceleration in the process, then well that is an added benefit. To us gear heads, that is what we want! But to keep the government and unions happy, Acura is focusing on the information that makes positive headlines. Remember that perception is very much reality in this PDA, Internet, Immediate Gratification World we live in today. Believe this information to be true. This is actionable information. In the legal world, if an attorney says that something is “material”, that is a very big deal. This is “material” my friend.

Place your order!

Mr Marco

If all of this is true^, then you are a part of the message.

deeblew

Do you happen to live in Houston cause I would love to visit that dealership? I don't get how your salesman could commit to matching a truecar report for a 2011 model. If anything, I would imagine that they would match a truecar report for the 2012 model which may or may not have any dealer incentives/hold backs when it is first released. I'm new to buying a car but I'm under the impression that dealer incentives are given by the manufacturer so how can he so sure that he would be turning a profit at 39k right off the bat? Or am I just plain wrong.

pickler

i think i already made a thread about this a while ago. on the mdx it improved performance about 1 second switching from 5at to 6at so it should be similar results for the TL. im guessing it could hit 4.9s.

https://acurazine.com/forums/1g-rdx-2007-2012-147/acuras-6-speed-automatic-779381/

Moneyman2011

I have no idea why the salesman said what he said, but car sales are down in almost every model and brand, so manufacturers are getting aggressive. I live just north of New York City and the True Car pricing I showed the salesman was for a 2011. I am assuming that he would not have committed to the deal for a 2012 if the incentives and hold back was not the same. I was very clear and specific, and there were no miss-understandings on the salesman’s side of the conversation.

When you are shopping for a car you have to use a strategy to avoid their sales techniques. When I bought my 2004 TL in November 2003 (3 weeks after they hit the dealers), I did some research and bought the car via fax machine. What I did was find out who the owners of the local Acura dealers were and faxed the same letter to each of the three dealers where I stated what I wanted and that whoever called back first with the best price got the deal. While others paid $500 under MSRP, I bought the car $355 over true dealer invoice which was $3585 under MSRP. The best part was I avoided all of the nonsense and the deal was agreed to in 20 minutes. I showed up with a check and drove home.

In this situation, True Car is giving me more ammunition to fight the same fight. Also the economy is helping buyers with more leverage in the negotiations. Housing sales are down, and so are car sales. If the car comes in and this salesman and/or the manager does not want my deal, they can sell one less car. There are lots of dealers in the area, so someone will take the offer just to move floor plan. Dealers do not make any money with hardware sitting in the lots.

Moneyman2011

Confirmed numbers my friend:

• 0-60 5.45 with VSA engaged
• 0-60 5.59 with VSA off
• 1/4 mile 13.91 @ 103.4 mph

jharrison

if the 2012 TL Auto SH-AWD gets to 60 in 5.5 I will definitely order one because my biggest hangup was that the 2011 was slower than my 2007 S Type and I was looking at the G37 for it's quickness. I CANT WAIT for he first road tests on the 2012 from C&D, R&T, etc. I realize that 0-60 isn't everything but I want the TL for all kinds of reasons...it really is "smart luxury" compared to a C350 or 3 series. But I also want to be able to accelerate faste than most (I'll gladly lose to a $50k+ 335i)

23109VC

A tl will always get spanked by a 335... You just add a chip to a 335 and they are in the 12s.... No tl will be that fast unless you go fi. I wouldn't even try to compete with a 335 ifvyou are worried about speed. Handling, I thik the tl will hold it's own though...

My take on the tl VS BMW is that the tl spanks the standard 3 series in every way, it also spanks all the 3 series in terms of bang for your buck. A tl sh- wad with tech is a better buy than a 335... You get way kore for your money and better reliability.

The only place you lose is power.... The 335 has 300 advertised hp, but everyone knows it's really more like 330 and with a chip it's in the high 300s.... Low end torque galore... Just YouTube chipped 335s.... They run with fast cars....but you have to pay to play

I'd rather have the tl. Bigger, fits my kids, costs less, get more, more reliable, and fast enough

winstrolvtec

I wouldn't even do an direct apples to apples performance comparison of a 335 and TL. For one thing the TL is more in line with the size and weight of 5 series than a 3. Much more of a mid sized than a typical compact that you usually find in the entry level. You're always gonna give up a few tenths for the extra size and weight.

23109VC

how fast is the new TL going to be??? when are we going to see actual test drive reviews???

I would imagine that Acura would get one out to the journalists BEFORE they hti the dealer??? you want the journalists to drive it.. rave about it.. and get people wanting it.. BEFORE it is sitting on the lots...

so when do the car mags test it??? i want to see how fast the new transmission shifts ...

the manumatic shifting on myh MDX and RL is weak. yeah, i can hold gears longer, etc.. but it is nothing like a manual transmission or the super quick shifting transmissions in some of the super cars.. like the porsche PDK... that thing shifts so fast it's like astick.. when do we get that in an Acura??

jjsC5

I'm not sure what your point is. You have nothing in writing it doesn't look like.

Bearcat94

Maybe when you start paying super car prices.

Pete2010

It's like that other thread where the guy wondered why we didn't see some tech from an A8 in the TL. Totally different classes...

Vancity_TL

well, I had a '08 TL-S MT and I took it to the drag strip to see how fast it was. I took out the back seat, but being a dumbass, left the lock nut of my RJ Legends (18x8.5)... so ran the 1/4 with the rims. best time I achieved was 14.28 @100.6MPH. Oh yea, had a Fujita CAI and a temporary test pipe.

I now have a '10 TL SH and it seems to be not as quick as the TL-S... but once VSA is off, feels quicker... kind of contrary to the performance stats...

None the less, I'm generally happy with the SH.

Now to save $$$ for mods... haha

zman1910

I have a 328i and a TL-S auto. Recently test drove a TL sh-awd due to all the amazing incentives and came to the conclusion that the TL SH-AWD is slower than both my 328i and my TL-S. The 335 is in a different league altogether but the 328 will easily keep up.

I decided to wait an additional month for the 2012 and go from there.

Stew4HD

Sooo.. the TL is a race car? My -08 was passed like it was sitting still by a plain Jane Charger RT hemi at 135MPH :eek .. so I decided that I just have a damn good looking and comfortable cruiser

As for pricing on the '12, Acura couldn't possibly think of trying to sell these in the high 40's. I don't think they will sell for that. I expect a small rise in MSRP based on previous experience to cover the new options. We will see in Mid March, or April, or May.

Sterling McCall (dealer in Houston) hasn't talked price with me but I have only been able to send emails, not a personal visit.

zman1910

No one said it had to be a race car. If I'm going to buy an automobile I look at everything and don't just blindly buy a car bc I can eventually justify its comfort. If that is the case there is no car better than a Camry at less than 20k.

Having said that there is no excuse for having a 305hp vehicle that is inefficient to begin with and also can't keep up with it's competition.

I don't race and have no plans on doing so but the previous gen TL was innovative in every single category from performance to comfort to style and to technological gadgetry. Hopefully this update will tie all those qualities back together.

Stew4HD

Did I hit a nerve? I based my comment on how many posts there are about 0-60 and 1/4 mile times I see. I am curious as to why it is so important in a luxury sport vehicle? I also have to remember that I am a lot older than most on here and my driving wants/needs/habits are different than others and I respect that.

If I want power and speed, there are real options for that. We are talking a family sedan here, 5 passenger car that gets out on the freeway nicely, can pass with ease.. etc. I am not stating that the car is a bad car or lacking power, just wondering why 0-60 or 1/4 mile time is important. Who drives the car like that? Is it just knowing you can go 0-60 in 3.2 sec vs 328 doing it in 3.3 that matters? Again, I am merely curious as to why that is.

What do you have against the Camry? LOL, j/k.

compewterbleu

Hmmm, I've smoked 3G's Type-S TL's on the regular going to Atlanta on the weekend. And from my research a regularly aspirated Type-S is not taking a Tl SH-AWD unless it's MOD...the times I find and herd reported are 0-6 5.5-8 seconds. But I know how most folks love to embellish their 0-6 times.

Even with this said, this is a 5 passenger, 4DR mid-size sedan, it may not be a blur in the 1/4 mile but it's like a freaking Swiss army knife as an all around vehicle at a price that is very affordable. And as far as it be in effective, keep in mind the Infiniti has the hp but losses it in transition to the ground, poor engineering, poor...

Stew4HD

Did you hit top end? If so, what speed?

My '08 topped out at around 135... was kind of scary. then that Charger passed me like I was sitting still... hell, I was trying to catch up to an M3.. he was WAAAY gone... so, I realized that I best just shut 'er down and cruise... funny thing.. 80MPH feels like a crawl after going 135!

compewterbleu

The fastest I've been was 130 mph so far, I was rolling with a Ferrari and Porsche towards ATL...a Vette was leading use by about 3 car lengths. And yeah, once you hit well past 100 mph 80 mph feels slow. When I exited to get gas so did the guy with the Ferrari 458 he complimented me on my ride, SH-AWD, impressive." Cool.

Crazy thing is I got popped by the State Troopers doing 85 mph passing a semi while a Yukon was bearing down on me followed by a Benz. My question to him was you pulled me over and they had to be doing 100+ mph because they passed me standing still. His answer, I won't give you a super speeder ticket, I'll drop you down to 81 mph on the ticket, and you were the 1st vehicle they radar so it's like tag you're it. Nuts.

winstrolvtec

But you also can't justify against it (mainly in terms of performance) by seat of the pants feel or only test drives. The reality is the SH auto's performance is very similar to the 3G TLS auto overall but mostly by way of 0-60 and 1/4 mile times, while it takes a 328i with a 6MT to even hang with both of those cars.

The SH does not feel very fast, the slightly different engine character combined with AWD and added weight, gives this gen model a different feel opossed to the last. A car like the lighter 328i RWD always feels like it's at the torque max and is on edge all of the time, where the Acuras need to rev. Feel doesn't mean it's necessarily faster or slower.

The 4G SH auto is not ineffecient because it has more power and doesn't perform any better, it weighs more and has AWD now and is also a bit larger. If 0-60 and all that are such a concern the 6MT is what you probably should be looking at, as there little denying it's ability to perform.

Even with the auto, in terms of handling, it does as well as dedicated sports cars costing at least a third of the price more, besting most if not all of it's relative competition while often being larger and heavier. It's not fair to the car to compare it to 400 lbs lighter RWD compacts with similar output and saying it can't compete in striaghtline performance.

Align it with cars that are similar in size, weight and engine output (which usually means also with AWD) and it competes as well as nearly all, if not better at times and that's only with the current 5AT, not the upcoming 6AT. The car still has all those innovative qualities (inlcuding styling) it's just represented a little differently now.

I am not sying you have to like or appreciate that as everyone is looking for something different. I do understand where you're coming from, to many previous automatic 3G owners (especially TLS), either 4G won't be a significant enough upgrade to justify replacing a perfectly good car in the 3G until it gets the 6AT and/or toned down styling but it shouldn't take away from areas where the car has objectively improved.

compewterbleu

I don't know, I shopped the 3G TL-Type S. Scrutized it to death and then the 4G came along...and honestly other than the controversial looks and size difference simply sitting behing the hlem was a vast difference. So was driving the two, now I did keep an open mind to the AWD application and size difference. The car evolved...

23109VC

the TL is not a drag car, but 0-60 and 1/4 mile are nice benchmarks to know so you can see how the car stacks up. no one wants to spend good money on a "performance" oriented luxury car only to know that it's a lot slower than similarly priced cars.

i'm pushing 40, and while this stuff is NOT as important to me as it used to be, I still enjoy it. nthing wrong with hammering the gas once in a while and enjoying the power.

if power/speed is ALL you care about, of course, buy a different car, like an EVO, Vette, etc etc.... but most TL buyers aren't looking at speed as the sole factor....it's part of the equation... an important one, but not hte most importaht.

i think the subject comes up more now, because people are wondering if the extra gear will have any benefit to performance, vs just to mpg...... if would be great if it provides gains in both departments.

i currently drive an 06 RL. i like my car, but i think a sportier car might be in the cards next time I buy. this new TL has me looking...maybe i won't buy one right away...but in a few years, when CPO 2012s are on the dealer lots and deals can ber had..maybe i'd upgrade....

i'm very anxious to see a roadtest review of this new car!!!

zman1910

No nerves hit here...just trying to understand how you can justify spending 45 large on a "performance" luxury car that gets outperformed by its competitors. Most cars nowadays have 'enough' power to get out on the highway and pass with ease.

You have to keep in mind there are drivers of many kinds.....not just comfort hwy cruisers. Some people enjoy quick acceleration here and there and that's exactly what those statistics are an indication of. Did you not know that?

My issue is exactly what you stated and I'll use your example. It's not that the TL top of the line engine is slow. It's that base model engines like BMW's is practically right there with it while Lexus, Infiniti and others top of the line engines demolish Acura's offering...in both performance and efficiency.

The worst part is Acura did this to themselves bc the new 6AT will be able to compete easily if it's performance in the MDX and ZDX is any indication as to how the TL will respond. I still don't understand why Acura was still stuck on 5AT's when the competition is on 7 and 8 speed AT.

For me this isn't about stoplight racing, even though that's what it may have come off like initially, this is about what Acura is offering relative to the competition. I have that same 5AT in my 07 TL-S...so it's pretty ancient and I wouldn't want to upgrade to a 2011 45k car with the same tranny in a bigger/heavier/AWD vehicle.

I have absolutely nothing against the Camry. In fact the V6 Camry is one of the most comfortable Camry's ever made....not to mention it's straight line performance is actually better than the Acura's V6/tranny combo while still getting phenomenal gas mileage.

VTEC Racer

Uhhh... have you overlooked the fact that the TL is factually much faster than a 328? Your basing your assumptions by the seat of your pants, while everyone else here is referring to actual magazine tests. Straight line is one thing, put the two cars on the track and the TL absolutely demolishes the 328.

You keep talking about the TL "lacking" for a $45k performance sedan, but the only performance aspect you are referring to is 0-60. Have yuou consider a Dodge Charger?