TLVR

When evaluating my new tires it became appearant from the question readers had that too many owners are totally UNAWARE of TSB 05-050! Allow me to get you up to speed. I personally , by pure, dumb luck stumbled upon this critical information. Yes, if you do a search and look under "rear tire wear" you will eventually find out about it. But we are not always daily checking this site and so you easily can miss this one.Some mentioned that Acura still takes this on a case by case basis instead of doing the right thing and doing an official factory recall. Maybe it is handled this way because of financial considerations. So appearantly Acura issued the TSB when they realized that fully loaded TL's changed the rear axle geometry. This results in more compression and a drastic increase in the toe-in setting, so much so that it can quickly chew up rear tires. The TSB calls for the dealer to change the bump stops which supposedly keeps the toe setting from changing?! Maybe the new stops are a harder material and not subject to deforming? They also do a new alignment and change the rear to 0! And..they will replace the original EL 42 only with improved EL42!! All this done at no charge to the owner. So, since we are NOT informed about this we continue to drive. As a good owner I rotate the tires very regularly so now all 4 tires wear out quickly and in my case show no abnormal wear because of the frequent rotations. And we scratch our heads when the tire wear bars show at 15K miles or less.
And why do I have to tell the manager that the "one time use" self locking nuts must be replaced with new ones? It says so clearly in the service manual!This nut goes on the bolt that adjusts the rear arm suspension piece which changes the toe setting. If it is reused, like it probably is, does the alignment setting then change by itself?? Anyway, just trying to help answer some questions some of you had. Hope it can prevent further frustration. If this is all old news it at least will assist our new members with 04-05 TL's. Check the affected VIN#. Lets stay on our toes!!!!!!!!!

A_UFO

Here is the TSB 05-050

Hawhyen51

Theres's a couple threads regarding the original TSB (05-050) which was superseded by 05-076.

https://acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=129086
https://acurazine.com/forums/ramblings-12/nascar-sucks-140492/
https://acurazine.com/forums/technology-16/metro-pcs-s-fla-127282/

Inaccurate

Does the '06 still have this issue, or did Acura fix the bug for the '06 model ?

A_UFO

TSB 05-076 has been replaced (superseded) by TSB 05-050.

Hawhyen51

Yea, thanks for catching that one and I had it front of me......

Fructus

If I had an A-Spec suspension installed at the dealership do you think this fixes this problem automatically or does still need to be addressed? Because I don't want to find out too late after my expensive tires have worned out

StLMO-TL

Fructus I can only relay my experience I have a 2004 ASPEC and I just put my 3rd set of tires on the back wheels. When I purchased the car new it had Sumitomo tires which lasted 18K. I replace them with Michelin Pilots and the tires on the back lasted about 7 months and now I have Pirelli PZero tires on the back. When I had service done in the Spring at Acura they would not rotate the Michelins because the back tires were about shot. I ask them if they knew what was causing the back tires to wear more than the fronts on a front wheel drive car. Their answer was they didn't know what caused the problem and didn't mention TSB-05-050. I plan on going back into Acura soon with a copy of the TSB.

So to answer your question the ASPEC suspension doesn't solve the problem.

AcuraGreek

Myabe im just dumb..but what is TSB???

noah82

If you read the attached PDF file at the beginning of the post, you will see.

Fructus

Could anyone post the A-Spec alignment specs. Also does having other than A-spec wheels affect these specs?

A_UFO

Technical Service Bulletins

maxxamit

I just currently purchased a TL from someone who had Leased it for 2 yrs. 2 mo. and has 28K miles. The tires are extremely worn and need to be changed and have been for awhile according to him. I was wondering if you think they'd concider changing them for free since it was leased and he might not have gotten this 05-050 service bulletin. Anyone gone to get this done after the 25K miles that they say you get 0% paid for by warranty?

triggle

This leave me scratching my head as to what the problem is and why cars with the summer tire option are not affected. I have an 04 6mt Dynamic package (6mt w Potenza summers) that does not seem to be included in this. But if they are replacing the bump stops and doing the alignment then all models should be covered. My tires look good but I rotate and have winters so the wear is spread across two sets.

A_UFO

^^^ I have the same thoughts when the TSB 05-076 and then the newer TSB 05-050 came out about my 05 AT Navi with Michelin's. Why only TL models with the Bridgestone Turanza EL42 tires need the bump stops replaced?

Hawhyen51

From this thread regarding the same subject matter.

TLVR

The TSB specifies/recommends that all the 04 and certain VIN# 05 TL's, should have the bump stops replaced and an alignment done. And if you STILL have the old type EL42 tires on the car, that those will be replaced with ONLY the newly reformulated EL42 Bridgestones. The small bump stops are located on top of the rear springs and probably break down over time and when fully loaded down -supposedly allowing the whole rear suspension to change the geometry drastically. End result is excessive rear toe settings = fast wearing rear tires.

HuKaShI

Can anyone tell me if the new bump stops actually correct this issue?

I'm taking my car in on Saturday to have this TSB done. I went through a perfectly good pair of Pirelli's and I'm pretty pissed but what can I do.

I just want this issue to be resolved so that I don't have to go through another set of perfectly good pirelli's.

Fructus

Thanks for the alignment specs. Are they the same for '05 TL?

ajay711

This is a great post. I have an '04 and have been noticing negative camber on my rear wheels and also tire wear on the insides. I just called Ed Voyles Acura in Atlanta, and they will be doing the repairs next week. I will post after they have done the repairs.

TLVR

I had the work done just recently. And I can only assume that most who find out about the new TSB, and acted on it, have only had a few months with the new bump stops and re-alignment. Also it seems that if the car is not heavily loaded down all the time that the severe wear does not take place immediately. But I am sure that all of us who had the work done will keep a sharp eye on the tire wear, especially the rear ones. We need to stay vigilant and help each other as much as possible so please report back on any unusual developments. Regards and good luck!!!!!!!!!

YoungnTLDrivr

So was it fixed for the 06? ANyone?

Tecciztecatl

I also have an 04' 6MT and just recently had it in the shop for some body work. While it was in there and getting and alignment I brought in a copy of the TSB 05-050 and told them to please take care of it. I was later told that the ASPEC suspension did not need this adjustment and that it did not fall under the specs of the TSB ...upon further review of the TSB they are correct ... but are they?!?

I have not have excessive wear, although I do use winter tires and seldom have any extra weight in the back. My tires (Neros) did not last as long as expected.

The theory of the ASPEC not needing the bump stops is that it is stiffer to begin with and already restricts the travel space of the shocks ... I dunno - not my area of expertise.

Unfortunately the yahoos at the dealership are so confused and clueless themselves that it leaves me wondering - YOU GOTTA WATCH THESE GUYS!!!

Hawhyen51

The Aspec suspension is a totally different system. I have not seen any nor heard about any tire wear problems. As far as the O6MY is concerned, Acura must have incorporated a "fix" during production. Only time will tell whether or not they resolved the problem.

VelfarreClubber

[/QUOTE]


Am i safe? I did this alignment lowered on s-techs with a JL 12w6v2 in the trunk

maxxamit

Well I read it pretty well and it says that anything over 25K+ miles won't be paid for AT ALL by Honda of America. Has anyone gotten it paid for for any reason with 25K+ miles?? I still have the old tires that they say should be replaced. Think I should argue and give it a shot??

Drunkenmunky23

im wondering the same!

Dooley

^Yeah.. no one is answering this question.. and now I'm worrying a little...

gyrus

So they cover everything except a fraction of the actual cost of the tires? (fraction of cost determined by the chart at the end of the document)

Does the rear tire actually have to be worn to that point in order for them to replace it?
---- excerpt:
Diagnosis part 2:
Inspect the rear tires. Are the rear tires worn evenlyacross the tread down to the tread wear indicators?

Yes - Proceed to the appropriate REPAIR PROCEDURE based on the VIN.

No - This service bulletin does not apply. Proceed with normal troubleshooting procedures (accident damage, alignment, tire pressures, etc.).

demellie

All,

I had my 18" Yokos replaced and the bump stop fix installed last year on my 04 TL after sending a detailed complaint to the President of Acura Canada. They were nice enough to cover the entire bill.

A year later and 8500 kms on my new 18" Yokos....I have the uneven tire wear issue occurring AGAIN!!

The area rep was supposed to look at my car again but bailed before the dealer could get it into the bay. Acura is once again stating that the suspension and alignment of the car is within specs...with no load on the suspension!!

Acura is NOW pointing the finger at the tires themselves.......what a joke.......so I'm letting them shoot themselves in the foot as I have already been in touch with Yokohoma and there is NO issue with the tires.

In the meantime....I'm getting my letter ready to send back to the President of Acura Canada.

Keep you posted....

demellie

headroll

if you install after market coilovers and get new rims, is the car still covered or would the dealer charge me for the work?
cuz i got Tein SS coil overs and 19's.
my shop guys set my rear tires camber angle too, so my rears will wear from inside anyway.

avs007

I noticed the 05' TL/Navi are excluded. Why? I have a hard time believing that the michelin tires came with different suspension components from all the other TLs.

vash68

'cuz Michelins have higher thread wear! j/k

I have just purchased A-s[ec suspension for my 04TL/5AT, it is still sitting in the box in my garage. And now this thread makes me wonder... I red page 1, but still wonder if there is a definite word on A-spec not being affected ..

Should I replace bump stops while susp is out of the car? Can I even get the replacement stops from a dealer?

hmmmm

SpecialFX

I went to my dealer on Friday to have this done. The service writer inspected the tires and said they are worn enough and in a way consistent with the issue described in the TSB. Since my car has 22,000 miles on it Acura will only pay 25% of the tire cost. When I had my car in previously (March) they told me the tires were worn. This was at 18,000 miles. They should have told me about the TSB at that time.

They charge $190/tire for replacement El42s!! I would have to pay $143/tire (75%) to replace the EL42s. I said forget the tires I'm going to buy my own (Acura will only do the TSB with replacement EL42s). He said they can't do that, they have to do the entire service or they won't get paid by Acura for any of the suspension work. Anyone hear of this?

Basically it would have cost me $600 to have the necesary suspension work done
and get new (crappy) tires. The guy said they know the EL42 are no good but they require that the dealer use them anyway. Needless to say I'm not thrilled with Acura or the dealer at this point. I'm going to call Acura today to see if this can be resolved.

Anyone have a similar experience with this TSB?

1995hoo

Could someone clarify this for me: I do not need new tyres as I replaced the EL42s in January with Pirellis. I have an '04 6MT and I need to take it in next week for the state safety and emissions inspections (and by then I will also likely be due for a servicing, but I don't yet know which one). Are they likely to agree to replace the bump stops and set the toe, or will they respond as described by SpecialFX? It seems from the TSB that they are supposed to do the work even if you do not need new tyres, per the notation on Page 1 in the right-hand column: "If tire [sic] replacement is needed, you must use Bridgestone Turanza EL42 tires [sic] from The Tire Rack." This implies to me that the work should still be done even if tyre replacement is not needed.


EDIT: Page 2 does seem to suggest otherwise, though, in that it indicates that if there's no wear, this step isn't needed. My EL42s had about 18,000 miles on them as of January 1 and they were not unduly worn at all. Guess I shouldn't be overly concerned, then. I seldom drive with a full load.

SpecialFX

Check my post above yours. They dealer WILL NOT do the suspension work unless you also replace the tires, which is going to cost you money. It would have cost me $600 ($143/tire based on me paying 75% of $190). I was not going to pay $600 for new EL42s. He claimed that if they do not do all of it they will not get paid by Acura. (I plan to call Acura to find out) I decided it's not important. The best thing to do is get the car aligned to the NEW specs. That should help the most. As for the bump stops, they only come into play when the car is heavily loaded and/or you go over really bad bumps. The loading we can control, the bumps less so.

1995hoo

Fair enough. It sounds like I can always print out the TSB, bring it with me, and ask about it, and if they say they have to replace the tyres then I can tell them to skip it. It's very rare that I carry more than two people and either two golf bags or a cooler full of ice and beer. I carried four people (self included) and four golf bags once and will never do so again.

I'll report back next week on what they say when I ask about it.

brick

I am so pissed off at Acura.

Short story:
1. Orignal set of tire wore out
2. original wheel had scratch an low tire pressure
3. I spend $700 on new tire BFG KDWS they are now gone at 24K more.

QUESTION: Do I need to get these bump stops they refer to in the TSB? Will they promote tire life / safty?

jim

gyrus

Does anyone know anything about them this TSB not applying if the 2004 car has a manual transmission? Cuz that's what they said about it and I don't believe them.

Actuary

so why not Michelin MXM4's and Potenza's on MT models? I don't get this.