eastcoastguy

This is the second snow storm that I have driven the TL in and I must admit its one of the best cars I have driven in the snow. I know many people have differing opinions on how the transmission shifts and how it slows the car down in the lower gears, but for the snow I think its perfect. I can drive and not have to use the brakes barely at all, avoiding sliding, etc. Also having the manual option (to start in 2nd gear) also helps to control the car better. Not sure if anyone would agree with me but I havent seen any people post about this fact, so thought I would share.

Jackass

With proper tires and a proper driver the TL does just fine and dandy in the snow.....of course until it gets more than 6-8" deep and then it drags and gets stuck.

Please remember that for the most part, the tires on the vehicle will have the biggest impact on how well a vehicle handles in the snow. I have friends who have 4wd trucks and tell me they suck in the snow. They just don't realize the crappy tires on their trucks that load up with snow are the main culprit....they blame the vehicle.

You can for sure feel the weight of the TL in the slick stuff. Once it starts sliding, it keeps sliding. I have the LSD which I greatly enjoy in the winter. Makes taking off from a stop or climbing small inclines much calmer than in my previous cars.

Acura604

I was never a believer in 'winter tires' until Winter 2008 in Vancouver, BC:


the TL was literally stuck and could not get out of that long long alley way which was a sheet of ice under snow.

Stock Michelin MXM4 all seasons... are a NO GO in winter!

JTS97Z28

iTrader: (4)

I have also had no issues with the TL in snowy conditions. And that was even with the original Michelin tires. They do just fine, atleast in the minimal snow we seem to get around here these days.

eastcoastguy

I agree with this statement about the tires. I have Hankook Ventus V4ES and they have done well. But in the snow and ice its good to have all the help you can get and I feel like the transmission in this car really helps in the snow.

20_sec.hatch

I almost got stuck in the mountains when I got caught in a sleet storm. Added weight in the rear of the car along with summer tires=disaster. Ive been rocking a subaru impreza and just had a big ice storm in TX and would not have wanted to be in any other car.

maharajamd

iTrader: (1)

- snow/winter tires
- possibly some sand bags in the trunk

You'd be amazed at what throwing some weight in the rear can do.

just1nsama

Love the TL in snow also, where i come from good snow tires is a MUST for winters, rocking the nokian's hakkpalita right now, love it !

vietxquangstah

iTrader: (7)

what advantage does adding weight to the rear of a FWD do for snow and ice?

I could see how added weight in the rear will help a rwd but a fwd?

GKinColo08TL

Wondering that too...only thing I can think of is that it adds more weight to the car overall.

d1sturb3d119

iTrader: (1)

It induces more slump in the suspension more negative camber and widens the stance. That being said it is a bad idea and shouldn't be done since adding weight to the car makes it harder to accelerate, change direction and slow down. Instead adjust your suspension and tune your car the right way and buy snow tires if you want better traction.

Your butt may feel better since it seems like the car is more planted. It isn't. There's a reason why test tracks exist. Ask anyone that actually drives hard. You will not induce oversteer unless you handbrake the car in snow with VSA off. Believe me I've tried. The VSA is very aggressive on the 3G TL and doesn't allow the car to step out. Quick steering inputs do not translate unless you move from clear tarmac to ice immediately which will cause you to slide nevertheless. Physics don't change because of sand bags in your trunk.

Adding weight to the car is never the right option. Period.

Also for RWD cars it does put more weight over the drive axles which is a half assed way of developing traction. Better tires will do a car good. Driving around with extra weight in the trunk will compromise how the car rides.

mvp2765

iTrader: (1)

Maybe it's my tires (they're the same all seasons from the factory), but i feel that my old FWD pontiac GTP did better in the snow on crap tires versus my new TLS. This is the first snow that this car has actually ever seen. Looks like I'll be putting snow tires on the stock wheels next winter. I just need to take it easy and make it through this year first.

JTS97Z28

iTrader: (4)

Really? And your in Chicago? I live way out in the far suburbs where sometimes streets dont even get plowed, or if they do its several hours after the snow. I have never had a problem in the snow with my TLS with stock Michelin tires, Continental DWS, and now my new Michelin PS A/S 3's. Just get a good all season tire and youll be good. No reason to be swappin tires every several months, atleast in Chicago.

NorCoTL

Where I am at in Northern Colorado we have fairly mild winters. Brief periods of sometimes heavy snow followed by long periods of dry weather. (Even though we are just now escaping a week long period of 10 degree highs and -15 degree lows) Not quite enough consistent snow to justify Winter tires. I have Continental Extreme Contact DSW tires mounted on the stock wheels of my '05 TL and have been extremely happy with their performance year round. When we get snow we also get ice, especially black ice on most roadways, and the DSW has been excellent.

lusid

I have a few videos of the TL in the snow.. I'm in MN and it's snows a fair amount.

Search in google onza04+cooper - been doing a yearly update on the tires.. and they are bomb! On ice.. not so much lol

jblessing

+1 for the DSW's in Denver. Been great for the last 2 winters. Sure winter tires might be a bit better, but I don't think they are worth the hassle and cost for our usual winters.

mvp2765

iTrader: (1)

I'm actually from the south burbs and am living there right now. I'll be downtown in Jan tho. And i just checked my tire brand and they're not Michelin Tires so i guess theyre not OEM. They're Kumho Ecsta LX Platinum. Dont really know much about these except they suck even with 50%+ tread left.

These are them on tirerack:
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires....ta+LX+Platinum

lusid

Well there's your problem... Buy some new shoes and you won't be having issues in snowy conditions.

Nick216

Isnt kumho like the cheapest brand.

GKinColo08TL

I had those on my 350Z and have them on my TL...I haven't had any issues with them, but I don't drive my TL in the snow unless absolutely necessary. And no, they aren't the cheapest, kind of mid price range.

Alexns05

Who cares about the tires. As long as you don't drive like an idiot you'll be fine.

DuoDSG

Gosh, this is the second time in the last month I've seen someone give the advice to put weight into the back end of the TL to "improve" winter traction and handling.

NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO

This has to stop before someone new to the forum takes that advice at face value, does it, and ends up in a wreck as a result.

Anyway-

Yes, the TL handles fine in the snow. Get good tires and avoid the nasty habit a lot of peope have of oversteering and trying to accelerate when you start to slip and you'll be fine.

I live in northern Utah where we get dumped on, and I just got back from driving into Idaho. -22 temps, a good 8-9 inches of snow. Nasty stuff, I saw cars get hit left and right, get stuck, etc. But it never happened to me, because of the things everyone is mentioning it.

A lot of times VSA will help you get out slips, so let it do its job and don't gun it thinking you'll "power through" the slide or rut. If/when your tires finally gain enough traction, you'll be launched forward and won't be able to stop yourself.

vietxquangstah

iTrader: (7)

eastcoastguy

Yea people put weight in the back of cars thinking things are still the same as years ago, most cars are not rear wheel drive. Also your not driving a rear wheel drive pick-up that has no weight in the back. With our front wheel drive cars the only thing you can and should do is have good tires and take it slow.

This thread got off what I was trying to get across that the transmission slows the car down avoiding braking which minimizes potential sliding. Also being able to start in second gear helps a little bit.

losiglow

iTrader: (1)

I agree with the no added weight comments. I've had less oversteer since I did the TL diet than ever before. I've completely gutted the trunk and removed the bumper reinforcement so I've dropped probably 150lbs. of the back end. I can't get the back end to break loose in pretty much any circumstance (unless I hand break). I've gone through three winters with Conti DWS's on the back and ExtremeWinter Contacts on the front so nothing has changed there.

I thought having less weight in the back (and on the whole car in general) would be a bad thing but it's only made a positive impact if anything. It might reduce traction a bit when accelerating from a stop but with the ExtremeWinter Contact's on the front, I rarely encounter much slip anyway.

Edit - And either I've gotten better in the snow or the TL is actually the best vehicle in the snow I've ever owned. It handles better than my '93 and '99 Accord did despite the wider tires - and far better than the old '77 Camaro but that's probably a given

1995hoo

I've never put winter tires on the TL because here in the DC area I don't really think there's enough of a benefit to make it worthwhile. It's rare these days that we get a truly substantial snowfall—February 2010 was the most recent one, when we got something close to 20 inches of snow over about a week, and the TL did fine with all-season tires getting us downtown for the Super Bowl Sunday Capitals game.

If I lived further north, I'd absolutely get winter tires. But on packed snow and on the slushy crap we had here earlier this week, all-season tires do well enough. The big key, in my opinion, is to think ahead when you're driving. People always talk about the importance of slowing down on snowy roads. That's a valid point, but you also have to think about momentum. If you go too slowly, you'll have trouble if you need to get up a hill.

This picture is from January 2006 on a trip to Mont-Tremblant. We were over on the north side of the mountain and I was trying to turn donuts in a relatively empty car park (Ms1995hoo yelled at me so much I quickly dropped the idea). The TL did great on all-season tires in this kind of snow. The only time I had a problem was the morning we got a 25 cm snow dump and we were trying to leave the condo where we were staying—the exit was located at the bottom of a hill and I just couldn't get enough momentum to get up that hill (so I turned the other way to go down the hill and took the long way around to the mountain instead). Of course I recognize that winter tires would make the TL handle that much better, but from a financial standpoint I simply can't justify the expense living where we do.




One other thing about winter driving in the TL....I love the seat heaters. Absolutely love them. No need to wear a coat or jacket (I toss it on the rear seat). The only times the seat heaters haven't helped much were (a) on that trip to Mont-Tremblant when it was –8°F and I had on a ski suit (couldn't feel the seat heater) and (b) when I wear my polarfleece-lined jeans (seat heater makes it too darn warm!).

NorCoTL

I had a 1978 Camaro in High School, still Northern Front Range of Colorado, and it was worthless in the snow without studded snow tires and extra weight in the trunk (over the drive axle, Camaros of that vintage tended to be very light over the drive axles).

NorCoTL

Very good point about momentum. Slow down, drive smoothly and maintain momentum.

GKinColo08TL

I had a Toy Supra a long time ago whilst living in central Jersey, horrible car in the snow. Now my 280Zs were excellent in the snow.

maharajamd

iTrader: (1)

It's more about effecting under/over steer. Not so much about helping traction for starting and stopping. I'm a timid driver in the weather, those attributes aren't much of a factor for me.

Hey do what you want. It's all personal preference.

I'd be curious to know how many of you have actually driven your TL (with a modified suspension) with weight added in the snow. I bet it's few.

Edit: Also, sand has gotten me out of a ditch before.

LockDots

What a wonderful idea. Offset the weight distribution so that the driving wheels have less grip. Might as well put a racing spoiler on the back with at least a 45 degree offset. The only good suggestion was sand. And will help to pour in front of or behind tires to give it grip. Of course you could just carry a shovel and use dirt.

Pghpizzaman

my wife wrecked my tl on Tuesday 30 yards from my driveway into a fire hydrant and do not enter sign going under 10. everyone talks about snow tires and your good. i usually agree i've had snow tires on all my cars for years. but nobody mentioned the shit- garbage ABS system in the tl. if you hit the brakes in snow i swear the car starts going faster! at first i blamed her until i pulled out of the drive way got up to 10mph hit the brakes and 50 feet later the car stopped. it was the worst ABS system in action i have ever drove.

also all 4 brakes were done 4 days before this...

imakeholesinu

I did have issues with my 06 AT last year in the snow, but that was only because...

1) We got 6in of packable wet snow in a very short amount of time.
2) My home is literally up hill leaving and getting there both ways.

I did get stuck and, luckily, had my snow shovel in the trunk for whatever reason and was able to get out. The tires were older and had good tread on them but dry rot struck in the spring and I had to replace all 4.

Definitely will try to avoid the roadways this weekend as they are calling for a mix of ice and snow all weekend here, not because of how my old car performed, but because there will be too many other crazy drivers out.

d1sturb3d119

iTrader: (1)

Doesn't sound like ABS was to blame.
Also if ABS didn't kick in you would have locked all four wheels compromising overall stability.
How old are your snow tires? Are there cracks on the side wall and is the tire going brown on the side? Were you on ice? Do the tires have studs on them? And how much tread is left on the tire?

At the end of the day all the tech in the world can't save you if the conditions are that bad. Can't blame the brakes if the rubber making contact doesn't do its job. If ABS detects slip it releases the wheel simple as that. Your tires were slipping if ABS kicked in.

ABS is not a parachute. Haven't had any issue so far. TCS on the other hand has been very intrusive and abrupt but keeps the car straight always!

Alexns05

Like I alluded to before, all the tech gadgets or tire engineering in the world aren't going to save you if you don't know how to drive. I feel like you're leaving out some important details in the story...

How do you wreck driving 10 MPH even if there was ice and the brakes locked up? Was she not paying attention and was going into a turn without coasting? Even 10MPH.is too fast in any car if you're turning onto a pure sheet of ice. I slow down to almost a complete stop when going around a bend tobe safe. 0 friction is 0 friction and why would your brakes matter in this situation anyway? Have you ever ran on a sheet of ice and then slid about 20 feet when you stopped running? Now imagine a 3000lb hunk of metal doing the same thing. No rubber is going to slow it down.

BTW it's a commonly known fact that you shouldn't slam on your brakes when you hit ice, you tap them lightly or just ride out the skid and maintain control. This is something I learned when I was about 5 years old, I thought it was general knowledge.

More importantly, if you don't absolutely have to be out on the roads when they are bad STAY INSIDE. Even if you think you are Jeff Gordon, you never know how bad other drivers are or where the next black ice spot will be. Drive slowly everyone.

On a side note, I wonder if winter tires can be more dangerous since they seem to give some people a false impression that they're invincible on bad roads and think they can drive like they normally do.

DuoDSG

To "settle" the whole "add weight to the rear" discussion, just read this thread from a little while back. It has all the technical details that are relevant to this kind of discussion:

https://acurazine.com/forums/3g-tl-tires-wheels-suspension-97/trunk-loaded-better-handling-897892/

And this thread discussed ideal driving conditions- the effects of having weight in the car would only become WORSE with snow and ice.


And yes, it's all a matter of personal preference. You can think it handles better in the snow with more weight. You're entitled to feel and think whatever you want.

But no one in their right mind can say that things like the laws of physics don't apply to their car. Or that what they "feel" is going to suddenly make their car and/or their driving style trump the way the universe operates.

I rarely get up in arms about anything, but again- this kind of misinformation needs to stop being perpetuated or an inexperienced driver/new user will read it, take it as scripture, and get themselves hurt, or worse...killed. If I was a new user and read a comment like that, I would be tempted to try it, because "common sense" dictates that adding more weight keeps you gripped to the ground, and because I know plenty of people that do this with their trucks. So in my head, it would "make sense", and ignorant individuals will act on it with potentially dangerous results.

Anyway....


Alex, I think you're right about winter tires being seen as a "silver bullet" by a lot of people- here in northern Utah, winters are terrible, and I constantly get asked if I've invested in winter tires. In my case, it might be a worthwhile investment, but people give me this puzzled look when they see what I drive and hear that I don't crash every winter.

I've seen so many people drive foolishly because they think winter tires will allow them to act like winter isn't even an issue. It's that kind of overconfidence that leads to people flying at 80 MPH on the highway in the middle of Sardine Canyon (nearby) in the middle of a blizzard, while I put along at a much slower pace...and I end up seeing them a few miles down the road stuck in a snowbank, in their Escalade, waiting for a tow truck to come, because they thought AWD and snow tires made them invincible.

And I just shake. My. Head.

fsttyms1

This is one of the dumbest statements i have heard

Tires arent about giving you the ability to drive like an idiot. They are about safety. Tires can and DO make all the difference. Lets say you are driving "normal" and someone else isnt. Your who cares about tires statement now leaves you with having to do a panic stop. At 30 mph even your best all season tire will take on average 30 feet more to stop than a snow tire. Thats a complete intersection where that idiot driver may or may not have just T-boned you and your family depending on if you have your who cares about tires mentality or the id like to have the safe and best traction option.

Too many people think snow tires are about having the ability to be able to drive thru more snow. While they do help you do that, they are about being able to give you the added traction under cornering and braking that no all season can match. Especially with icy conditions.

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/...y.jsp?ttid=103

fsttyms1

Quit blaming the abs system. It is only as good as the traction it has. Which has all to do with the tires. If the tires dont get traction to slow down abs isnt going to allow you to do it any faster.

NorCoTL

Agree... Tires are the interface between the car and the ground. Tires are what stops your car, tires are what turn your car etc... Tires are very important for both safety and performance.

1995hoo

Very good analysis. The rationale you set forth here is one reason why in my comment further up the thread I discussed tires for winter driving in the context of assessing what is reasonable for the area where you live or where you will drive a lot. ALL TIRES are a compromise of some sort, even the tires used on Formula One racecars (those of you who watch F1, consider how the drivers try to avoid the "dry line" if they're running on either of the wet tire compounds, and then consider how the two dry compounds on offer at each race always involve a tradeoff between increased grip/speed and decreased durability—the softer tires provide increased grip but last for fewer laps than the harder tires). The question for any individual is to determine what tires give you the best performance for your needs within your budget. The same is true at other times of year, of course—dry-weather summer tires might make a lot more sense in a place like Arizona than in a cooler, wet place like Seattle or London.

The key on winter tires is that people need to understand that they are not intended to allow you to drive on the snow in exactly the same manner you would on dry pavement (unless maybe your name is Schumacher or Vettel). The same principle applies to SUV owners who seem not to understand that four-wheel-drive does not allow you to drive faster and stop shorter—all it does is give added traction to get you moving in the first place.

You have to know the limitations of both your vehicle and your own skill as a driver. Even if you buy winter tires, I think it's a good idea to go find a large empty car park, one where you won't wreck your car if you go into a skid, and to try speeding up and slamming on the brakes and making sudden turns, just to get a sense for what sort of grip the tires provide, how your antilock brakes feel, etc. I used to go to the car park at my old high school to do that sort of thing whenever I got a new car just to get a feel for how the vehicle handled in those situations.