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Before the snow season comes back I have to get new tires on my winter base model TL wheels. Currently Im running the factory size of 235/45R17, Should I keep this size again or go narrower to 215/50R17?
Going to guess you are going to get opinions all over the place on this one.
My view, opinion, partial fact (in my little world).....stick with factory size. Unless you are always driving in snow and never on dry/wet pavement, it is less likely the narrow tire will benefit you. I personally worry more about the dry/wet performance of snow/winter tires than I do about the actual snow/ice performance since where I live we spend 80-90% of the time with no snow/ice on the roads during the winter season. Therefore I wanted more rubber on the ground to attempt to "help" make up for the less than stellar handling characteristics of the winter tires.
Back when I had my 2002 530i SP (which also came from the factory with 235/45 R17 tires), I did the whole "Minus-One" thing for my winter set by going with 225/55 R16 tires; the car was pretty much unstoppable until the snow got up above the front bumper.
The above said, I don't believe there are any 16" wheels which will fit over the 6MT and/or Type-S Brembo front brakes, and this in turn means you're pretty much limited to staying with the factory wheel and tire size.
I recently acquired a set of winter tires which are narrower (smaller) than the factory 235 size. The owner before me had them on his 06 TL and said that the narrower tire performed very well when trying to pull out of a snow bank.
We saw quite a bit of snow last year where I live, and I found myself stuck a few times in a snow bank...or slush. In order to get out, I would have to reverse and then throw it in drive multiple times in an attempt to "wiggle" free.
Albeit, that was with all season tires......im hoping these narrow winter tires will be able to handle that situation much better, time will tell.
I recently acquired a set of winter tires which are narrower (smaller) than the factory 235 size. The owner before me had them on his 06 TL and said that the narrower tire performed very well when trying to pull out of a snow bank.
We saw quite a bit of snow last year where I live, and I found myself stuck a few times in a snow bank...or slush. In order to get out, I would have to reverse and then throw it in drive multiple times in an attempt to "wiggle" free.
Albeit, that was with all season tires......im hoping these narrow winter tires will be able to handle that situation much better, time will tell.
The thing is, I'm betting the TL you saw the narrower tires on was a non-Type-S automatic which didn't have the Brembo brakes in front; I have yet to see a 16" wheel (best size to accommodate the 225/55 R16 tires) on the market which will clear those brakes.
And to add to my comments about being more concerned about Dry/Wet performance...my charts (built from TireRack data) showing scoring of various tires. My baseline is the MXM4 since that is my current daily tire that I am generally pleased with....other than price. Look at the various MXM and DWS columns. That shows the percentage difference compared to those two tires. I didn't want my winter tires to be any worse in dry or wet conditions than my MXM4 were. Since the majority of winter tires are "generally" worse in dry/wet conditions, that is what leads me to my personal choice of wide vs narrow. Although those of you that live in areas that spend more time covered with snow...this logic will probably not hold up well.
The thing is, I'm betting the TL you saw the narrower tires on was a non-Type-S automatic which didn't have the Brembo brakes in front; I have yet to see a 16" wheel (best size to accommodate the 225/55 R16 tires) on the market which will clear those brakes.
correct. it was an 06 base. However, the wheel size was 17
Why will he have to drop to a 16" rim? There are 17" rims that are narrower than our OEM rims right? I am not a wheel guy at all...but I was thinking our OE wheels are 8.5" and there are 8" rims available.
I run stock size 17" dedicated winter wheel/tire set up and they do pretty damn good in snow. Would a narrower tire of the exact same make do better? I can't answer that question, but I really doubt one would be able to tell a difference.
Narrower is always better with snow tires. You can switch to 225 easily enough, but I wouldn't go under that unless you're going to get a narrower wheel.
Why will he have to drop to a 16" rim? There are 17" rims that are narrower than our OEM rims right? I am not a wheel guy at all...but I was thinking our OE wheels are 8.5" and there are 8" rims available.
My qualification process was as follows:
The OEM 235/45 R17 tire size has a diameter of 25.3".
There are no 225 section width 17" tire sizes which would be within my personal threshold of 0.2", however, 225/45 R17 tires work out to 25.0" in diameter so if the OP wants to have the speedometer and odometer over-report, those might be workable.
Opting for 215/50 R17 (25.5" diameter) tires would match up with 17" x 7.0" or 17" x 7.5" wheels; I am unable to find even a single wheel in either of those sizes which will clear the Brembo brakes the OP has on his car; that and 215 section width tires would be borderline too narrow, IMHO.
Last edited by horseshoez; 09-12-2017 at 07:25 PM.
Why go lower than 235. just keep it stock. the car performs fine in snow and ice with its stock tires. im running dws 06 245 and they do just fine. when i don't mind digging another spot out in nyc.
The wider the tire the greater the tendency to plane up onto the surface of the snow, the narrower the tire the greater the ability to cut through the snow and maintain contact with the road surface.
The wider the tire the greater the tendency to plane up onto the surface of the snow, the narrower the tire the greater the ability to cut through the snow and maintain contact with the road surface.
OK, I think I understand. How about when the road is snow packed?
Why go lower than 235. just keep it stock. the car performs fine in snow and ice with its stock tires. im running dws 06 245 and they do just fine. when i don't mind digging another spot out in nyc.
No it doesn't, are you kidding me? My TL on snow tires sucks compared to my old Miata - no joke. FWD in general is absolutely terrible on snow and it's the one thing I absolutely hate about my TL. No FWD for me ever again.
No it doesn't, are you kidding me? My TL on snow tires sucks compared to my old Miata - no joke. FWD in general is absolutely terrible on snow and it's the one thing I absolutely hate about my TL. No FWD for me ever again.
Hmmm, not a good comparison, Miata vs. TL, Grapefruit to Grapes.
Even still, as a general rule FWD cars will easily out perform RWD cars in the snow, all else being equal (which of course is rarely the case). Over the years I've owned and driven dozens of cars through the snow, FWD, RWD, AWD, and 4WD; the best of the RWD cars, my son's 1996 Miata and my 2002 530i were both very good in the snow but even when shod with snow tires they were no match for one of our lowly FWD minivans with all-season tires. Granted I have yet to drive my TL in the snow, but I expect it to easily do better than either the Miata or the 530i, assuming I opt to buy a set of winter rubber. If I opt to go the winter with all-seasons on it, well, that might be a push compared to the snow tire equipped BMW.
To each his own, I suppose. I absolutely hate FWD on snow, it gives you so little control.
Keep in mind, I would much rather drive RWD year-round, snow or otherwise; I just stated the fact FWD cars, all else being equal, are virtually always more capable and have more control in the snow than RWD cars.
I think, more accurately, FWD is easier to use in snow as compared to RWD. Its more idiot proof. I think that's the only definitive thing that can be said.
RWD cars (all things being equal) will often come off of a stop better than FWD. I did say CARS. Trucks with weight distribution of virtually 100F/0R are exempt from my statement.
Stopping and turning are more tyre dependent than drivetrain dependent.
To add...you will find more 4WD/AWD vehicles in ditches because of the false sense of security that comes around from of how easily they come off of a stop. Doesn't even feel slick out. Until you need to turn or stop.
I think, more accurately, FWD is easier to use in snow as compared to RWD. Its more idiot proof. I think that's the only definitive thing that can be said.
Originally Posted by LeVeL
Back when I daily drove my Miata I used to laugh at the number of trucks and SUVs I'd pass that had slid off the road.
Sure, for your average driver FWD is more idiot proof but I would much rather have the added control awarded by RWD.
Yes, FWD cars are more idiot proof in the snow as well, but the truth of the matter is, FWD cars have a traction advantage for accelerating over RWD cars for the very simple reason they typically have more weight over the driven wheels than their rear-wheel brethren. Simple physics.
I'm not concerned about getting stuck - I'm concerned about braking and turning. RWD has a huge advantage with the latter because it gives you another way to point the vehicle, other than the steering wheel.
A lot of people kinda complain about the TL's ability in the snow and I wonder why that is.
Are people leaving the VSA on at all times or something? It often helps to turn it OFF to start moving from a stop...and then turn it back on if you feel you'll need it. If you're stuck...definitely turn it off.
Snow tires are excellent.
And its important to make SMOOTH movements. Maybe the throttle lag causes some people to get into the gas pedal too far, too soon? You wouldn't (hopefully) jab your brakes or yank your steering wheel when its slippery. So...same goes for the throttle.
Originally Posted by horseshoez
Yes, FWD cars are more idiot proof in the snow as well, but the truth of the matter is, FWD cars have a traction advantage for accelerating over RWD cars for the very simple reason they typically have more weight over the driven wheels than their rear-wheel brethren. Simple physics.
The context of my other posts on the subject is, "All else being equal"; what else is equal to a 911?
Back in the 2002 to 2005 time frame I had a 2002 530i SP 5-Speed shod in snow tires; I may decide to pop for a set of snow tires for my 2006 TL, and by next spring I will be able to give a pretty darn good apples to apples comparison of two similarly sized and capable vehicles. As good as the 5-Series was in the snow, I'm betting a snow tire equipped TL would get around a closed course even faster.
09-12-2017, 08:37 AM
