can anyone answer my question please?

 

I think it matters but I installed mine with the Koni shocks so I'm not sure. FWIW, it does matter when installing the Konis.

The unloaded length doesn't matter. Spring rate matters. It's actually a good thing that it's the same length as stock. It will help keep the tire in contact with the road especially when you have a sharp transition to a downhill section of road and you rapidly unload the suspension. This has always been the weakness of my TL. It does not like being in a turn where the road dips. I've had the whole car drift 4' over and that was without pushing it to the limit.

 

Been waiting for you to answer the entire time.

Thank you for your input.

 

I'm planning to put the rears tonight.

But even with aspec fronts only, my car feels more neutral(? maybe more flat?). I pushed it a little on the freeway ramps last night, and I definitely felt the difference. Can't wait to install the rears!

 

I'm trying to install aspec rears. In the manual it says there's rear L and rear R written on the strut. However, both of my struts have "R" written on them........... but their part numbers are different.

Is it a problem?

 

I remember the different part numbers and I had to look them up to figure it out. Wish I could help more.

 

Hey apnorm (or any other 6MT w/Aspec suspen),

Whats your dimension from the top of the wheel well arch to the ground???....which rims do you have (stocks, 18, 19)??


I'm in the verge of buying an Aspec Suspension kit and am doing final background search before biting the $$$$ bullet. By the way what part number Aspec suspension have you guys put on?? I'm looking at buying 08W60-SEP-201A. There has been long debates and speculation of whether this is for 6MT or 5MT....any solid opinions on this are welcomed (FYI, solid means not just writing "that part number is 5AT".)

 

I just went out and measured the distance from the ground to the wheel arch and the distances are as follows...

Front Driver - 26" Front Passenger - 26 5/8"

Rear Driver - 26 1/2" Rear Passenger - 26"

wtf? Did the shop install them incorrectly? i'm bringing my car to the shop next week and will have them check it out. I've had this installed for a while now and haven't noticed anything nor does it look off. ANYONE HAVE ANY IDEAS?

As for your other questions, I purchased a 6MT but don't know what the part number is. I have 19" wheels wrapped in 245/35s.

Sorry if this confuses you even more!

 

Apnorm....THX for the info.....sorry to hear about the discrepancies...let us know how it works out....any pics?

Anyone else know their ride height from wheel well arch to ground (include pics if possible)?

 

Have you tried measuring them with the car parked at different locations? Without fail I can park the car on a seemingly flat surface and get different measurements every time.

 

I don't think I have pics but will take some next week. I'm swamped at work and will be going away for the weekend.

I'll try this and see if it's different.

I had to replace my two front tires this morning and when they had the wheels off, I took a look at the suspension and it was correct as far as the driver's side was marked left and passenger was marked right. Does anyone know if the suspension is different front vs. rear?
And MAS, I did notice it said 08W60...didn't see what was after that though. I bought the 6MT suspension.

 

How long does it take to settle once the a-spec suspension is installed? I measured before and after and the rear wheel well is slightly higher after the install...

 

So i just installed the Aspec suspension last weekend. The change in performance is definately noticable although it is not harsh at all. Car definately feels more "neutral" in all directions.

My previous ride height (wheel well arch to ground):
Front - 27"
Rear - 26" ......................................yes, the front was one full inch higher than the back.

My new ride height:
Front - 26.5"
Rear - (26.125-26.25)" ....................yes, the rear did get slight higher. Maybe there was something wrong with my old rear suspension. It did have 85k on it.

All in all, the Aspec suspension helped reduce my higher front end discrepancy. Overall ride height did not lower much and honestly it is almost unnoticeable.....F/R discrepancy is definately improve though. I knew this going in but i decided to buy the Aspec anyways because i still have warranty for another 1yr and i dont want to screw with that. Resell value on these seem to be decent on here so maybe after warranty is up i'll sell them and convert over to Teins SS.

Anyways, just wanted to update u guys.

 

i also got the aspec put in last week

the fronts say L or R but the rears are the same.(used the 07 MT one)

im on 19's but i like the drop and it is noticeable, however with stocks on im sure it wont look very noticeable.

 

okay i have a 07 tl-s 6mt, and i was wondering if there is any difference from the type s suspension and the a spec suspension, or i migh just go with some lowering springs, not sure tho.. i am pretty new to the this so just looking for some advice..

 

I also would like some more information on what the above asked. Thank you in advance!

 

A-spec is firmer and lower. Not a lot but noticeable. It's great for a DD that you want to retain most of it's ground clearance, add quite a bit of performance, and not be too firm. IMO, most of the aftermarket stuff is aimed at looks first, performance second. A-spec has a better balance and will out corner the slammed to the ground TLs without being harsh.

 

I installed an '07-'08 Type S MT A-Spec suspension in our '05 Dynamic (MT) last weekend. Honda Canada had it at a fantastic price (to clear out old stock). Took me 5hrs total in our garage, using a floor jack and stands.

Canadian PN for the whole kit is 08W60-SEP-400B. Each front assy is marked 08W60-SEP-2M00-AA, with R or L depending on the side. Each rear assy is marked 08W60-SEP-2M00-CA (no L or R designation).

I think the fronts are unique to each side only because of the 6 studs on the upper mount, to correctly fit into the proper holes in the upper chassis mount.

I'll measure and post the height of the fender edges in a few days.

 

Sorry for the extra post but I forgot to add my handling impressions and then the 5min time limit to edit expired. There were also a few other notes I thought I should add:

I think the fronts are unique to each side only because of the 6 studs on the upper mount, to correctly fit into the proper holes in the upper chassis mount. The rears are identical but I installed them to match the orientation of the stockers (by the position of the lower spring seat).

With the A-Spec the suspension firmed up noticeably with tight control. Big improvement over stock, but I think our stock MT shocks were starting to go (about 60k miles).

There's far less roll, dive and squat, and the car tracks better. Impacts are sharper but not uncomfortable. The old susp made the car feel "floaty" going over humps in the highway and the steering imprecise and vague.

I'm debating whether or not to put on a larger rear sway bar. It's primarily my wife's daily driver and she doesn't drive it assertively at all.

The car sits a bit lower. It's subtle and most people will not see it as being "lowered". However it does have a more "euro" look, which I'm perfectly happy with. I have no interest in dragging parts of the undercarriage over speed bumps or steep driveways.

 

Since yours is a MT and has the larger front swaybar, the larger rear would compliment it nicely. Ride quality change will be minimal, some percieve it as having a nicer ride because it doesn't rock when hitting bumps and driveways.

If it were an auto I would say heck no if your wife is the primary driver as it would be a little tail happy. The Progress rear bar on the soft setting with the stock MT front bar should go nicely together.

 

Thanks for the input IHC. I've been reading your other posts and threads on your chassis set up and which rear aftermarket swaybar to use with which version of front sway bar.

I would probably have left it alone but another member is selling his used Progress for a really good price, which is why I'm considering putting one on. I will probably go ahead and buy it and install it on the soft setting, based on your advice.

 

My '07 TL-S AT has about 52,000km on it. I like the idea of putting the A-Spec suspension on it, but not until it actually needs to be changed.

1. Whats typical for a TLS?
2. Would you guys recommend buying the A-Spec early on it is a good deal?

PS. I don't want to go aftermarket because of warranty and also I've been there done that with my old CL

 

I'd say buy it if you can get it for a good price.

A couple of local (Vancouver) Honda and Acura dealers were advertising the '07 - '08 Type S A-Spec suspension at $325Cdn for the AT version and $375Cdn for the MT version this summer.

That's how I got my MT version. Honda Canada is apparently blowing them out due to the release of the 4th Gen TL.

The craigslist ad has expired but I can send you the text of the original ad. PM me. Ask your local dealer if they will match or come close to the price. If not, I can put you in touch with the dealer I bought from to see if they will ship to you. You should save on PST buying out of province, which might offset some of the shipping costs.

You might want to consider buying the MT version even though you have the AT. Apparently running the MT version may give you a little bit lower ride height in front, resulting in a more raked look.

 

Hey IHC, I missed getting the 24mm Progress but have a line on the 22mm Comptech. What do you think is the difference in stiffness between the CT and Progress on the soft setting? Are they equivalent or close?

I've also read through all the threads on the subframe failure. The best summary I can put together is that (and this is just unsupported hypotheses) stiffer poly bushings combined with significant suspension travel (stock susp) MAY be part of the cause, and that CT bars have experienced this issue more because there are more cars with the CT bar, and maybe a greater majority of these owners are running stock springs and shocks.

I think you were the one that added the susp travel factor.

Would you feel that it would be okay to run the Energy Susp poly bushings on the CT bar since I have the A-Spec? Or would you stick with the stock OEM rubber bushings (the CT bar I'm considering does not come with any bushings).

Thanks!

 

How can one tell if one has Aspec suspension over stock suspension?
i bought my car used and how can i see what suspension i have?
Thanks

 

The easiest way to think of it is the swaybar is a torsional spring and the more you wind it up, the more stress you put on it and the mounts/endlinks.

The more the suspension travels, the more potential it has to wind up.

Hitting driveways at an angle is a classic way to wind it up, one tire compresses while the other unloads resulting in more twist.

Running soft springs will allow more compression and put more load on the swaybar.

Stiffer bushings take some of the compliance out even though it's not much but it may be enough to push it over the edge. My personal preference is stiff bushings to take the slop out of it. With rubber, the bar won't react instantly, it has to be loaded a certain amount until the rubber compresses, taking away some of the sharpness.

In the grand scheme of things, hard cornering likely puts the least amount of stress on the bars.

To help it out, installing a larger front bar will take some of the stress off of the rear bar. Stiffer springs will help also.

I would like to see a list of people that have broken mounts. My guess would be the majority are people with the weak 5at front bar and the rear bar on stiff with stock or near stock springs.

I've had my rear bar in the firm position for quite some time now, ever since I added the H&R front bar and coupled with a-spec springs and Koni shocks, I've had no problems with tons of time tuning the suspension at the limits.

Going from 22mm to 24mm is approximately 40% stiffer all else being equal. But the 22mm is better suited to an 5at front swaybar. You will have better handling balance and not the tail happiness of the Progress bar on a stock auto suspension.

 

How much is just the a-spec springs? and how much can i get them for? I have eibach springs with tockico hp's and is too low for my taste. I just need the springs.

 

to match the spring rate get the comptech springs.....they are pretty much the same they dont sell the springs alone.

 

i agree. I think people that just change the rear sway bar alone, and not the front, are causing an extreme amount of torque on the rear sway bar mounts. And that torque can be increased again by springs that are soft, like my factory springs. Even though the primaary function of a spring is not to limit sway, they do reduce sway to some degree. However, The sway bar is designed specifically to reduce sway. Its a bit harder to see it on this TL, but on my camaro it was very easy to see how an ant-sway bar works. On my camaro, the rear sway bar was mounted to the rear axle. And just the ends were connected to the body. If the right side leaned down and the left side up, (like in a left turn) then that would put a twist on the bar. The bar resists that twist and the thicker it is, the better it keeps the car flat. Its like one side pushes down and the other side up. The ideal net result is flat. If both side of the body goes up or down evenly, then the bar just rotates up or down, with no twist. So, anyway, like I said, when the only mod you do is just the rear sway bar alone, and no added support from the front sway bar and/or springs, then either the mounts crack, or the something breaks.. the frame? I have not had this happen to me but I have seen pictures and I cant remember where it cracks right now, but ya, something back there breaks.

 

how long does it take to settle in? and is it better to get the mt a-spec for my at tl? also what is the real drop because i always read differently.

 

Well, from the time you set the car down, off the jacks, it will drop about 1/2" within 5 miles. But I'm not exactly sure how long it takes for them to drop more than 1/2 an inch because they have not been on my car long enough. They might but I think they might have dropped another 1/16" so far. But its hard to say exactly because I have some new tires, and even though they are the same size, I think they are slightly bigger. It's kinda like how Jeans vary in actual size. Anyways, so if the tires are slightly taller, then the spring may have dropped another 1/8" from the time I drove the first 5 miles. Because I took a measurement after I installed my new tires and it was only about 1/16" lower than the first 5 mile drop. So the net result is... even if the car is still alomost the same height as the first 5 mile drop, I took out a lot of gap between the top of the tire and the wheel fender well. Overall, I really like the stance of my car the way it is now. It's actually pertty low. Even though there are people on here that have lower.. I just want to keep my car looking less jiggified. No jiggy. haha (call me plain or whatever.. I don't care.. but Aspec is good enough for a TL. )

As far as manual springs vs. automatic springs... well, I have already contemplated it for a while because I just bought Aspec springs for my automatic car.. And I bought the automatic Spring kit.

Fact: So far, I don't think anyone knows the actual spring rate of the manual or the automatic A-spec spring kit. And the only thing that has been established is that the automatic car sits lower with the manual Aspec kit rather than the automatic Aspec spring kit.

I think both the automatic and the manual spring kit would look good on my automatic car at a stand still. Because I have seen plenty of pictures in every configuration. But I think the performance of the automatic springs is best suited for the automatic cars with an automatic transmission. Because I think that the odds are, that the automatic spring kit has a higher spring rate to stabilize the cars with the automatic transmissions, which weigh more. And you need that extra spring rate / resistance for a heavier front half.. like the TL’s with an automatic tranny.

I think even though the “manual springs” look good on an “automatic car” at a stand still, they most likely will not handle the weight as well as the automatic spring kit. And It would have to bottom out sooner than what it should. (such as; in the case of a large pot hole).

So for stability on the streets, like in a bumpy corner, then I would go for the Automatic Aspec spring kit for the automatic car. I think it will handle better, bottom out less, and it doesn’t look too bad either. I have a lot of before and after pictures in my garage, under “pictures and albums”. My car was sitting unusually high. But I took care of that. And even though some of my “most recent” pictures still may look “normal”, but seriously, when I walk up to my car from coming out of work, it looks slammed! So it’s all about the angle really. Some angles look slammed. But some angles look somewhat normal. I don’t have any of the “slammed” angles. Maybe I should take a few of those to show how it looks from a slightly longer distance. In any case, I wouldn’t want to go any lower than another 1/2”. But you gotta realize I’ve only had these springs for about a month.. So they will most likely drop over time. The dealer himself told me they sag after a while. So I think I am fine for now. Like we're talkign about 1/2 an inch. Is it really that noticable / critical? If you want to go lower than Aspec you will have to double up on expense AND most liekly you may not like the way it rides. Unless you like riding horses.

 

any close up pictures of the tire and wheel fender?

 

All these are the drivers side.

This is the Front - before aspec
This picture is angled up more and looking down more than all the other pics. So the top of the tire is not really that high. Close, but not quite as high as it looks because you can tell I am angled, looking down a little bit more than the other pics. In the other pics, I am more straight on even with the tire looking at more of the back of the fender well. This tire looks about 24" tall, but its really a bit lower. You could see that if I took the picture with the camera lower and more even with the top of the tire.
http://home.roadrunner.com/~chad97z/frontbefore.jpg

------
Front after
Notice the tire is actually taller even though its the same size tire.
The fender is dead on 26" on the left side of the tape measure. The tape measure is curved so I turned it slightly to let the left side lay flush against the fender.
http://home.roadrunner.com/~chad97z/frontafter.jpg


front with no flash
http://home.roadrunner.com/~chad97z/frontafter2.jpg


------------
Rear After aspec (no before pics)
The rear is not lower than 25 15/16". So that's only 1/16" lower than the front.
http://home.roadrunner.com/~chad97z/rearafter.jpg

 

So what do you all think? I just happen to have that "before" picture of my front left tire. Had I known I was going to compare actual tire height, then I would have gotton more even with the top of the tire for a straight across view.

From another post. before and after (notice that no only the tire-to-fender gap is reduced, but notice how tiny the tires look, before. And this is not the only picture that looks like that. 90% of my old pictures the tire look tiny. haha weird.

 

IHC and I differ some in how we see the function of the antisway bar. I think hard cornering or even moderate cornering impacts the anti-sway bar much more than hitting a pot hole on one side of the car. Because when you corner, one side of the car lifts while the other side digs down and that causes much more stress on the bar than a hole in the road that causes only one tire to dip down. In the event of a pot hole or a "hole" on one side of the car, the car body itself goes straight and therefore one side of the car is not effected by the pot hole on one tire on the other side. However we both agree that when a car leans, it puts a stress on the bar. So, again I don't see whats so hard to understand that when a car leans, its puts a much larger stress on the anti-sway bar than when you hit a pot hole that lasts about 1 instant. But lets say the car goes over a speed bump.. Both tires goes over it at the same time and the car does not lean. The car body just goes up and down.. So, there is ZERO stress on the sway bar in that case and the car rides no firmer than what it would with a light weight sway bar. IMO, I will give him "some" kudo's for identifying that when you hit a pot hole, the tire lowers down with respect to the tire on the other side, so there is some added resistance there. But one tire dipping down, is not nearly as extreme as throwing the whole entire body into a lean. Such as on a slalom course where leaning is extreme, heavy-duty anti-sway bars are a much added benefit. You have to think about where and how the anti-sway bars are mounted. When one side of the BODY goes up and one side goes down it puts a large twist on the bar. It pays to have a fat, solid, anti-sway bar when slaloming. But if you want to know why your car rides rough, then you gotta look at the settings on those KOni's and the springs rate and the overall travel distance. I think sway-bars have very little to do with how firm the car rides, such as crusing down the street where the pavement is relatively flat.

 

Oh bushings!

The difference between rubber and a harder compound is fractional at most. You have to thinking about distance in inches or meters and these suspension components are bolted down tight. So, again, how much slack? Gee. I think you're crying over spilled milk as the saying goes. I think the MOST difference you will see is more road noise with anything but rubber. Not performance; especially on a TL. ...Now, if you want to talk about Corvette, then maybe you might notice something small if you were taking measurements! But not by SOTP. And that's on a Corvette.. Not a TL. The only things you will notice is more road noise! haha You know why I know? I've done it! Try going with no bushings. I bought some "no bushing" LCA's for my 97 Camaro and 15 minutes after I installed them, they came right back off!!! BAM! no waiting. It was that bad. So, anything harder than rubber is progression toward metal on metal which will carry road noise right on up into the cab and you'll feel every little feather in the road.


Remember, all these suspension components work together. Why put on harder bushings when your springs are flopping around? You won't notice a dang thing. There are no cheap ways out.

 

The difference in the pothole vs leaning in the corners it the amount of travel. It's assumed the car is not on it's bumpstops even at maximum cornering so you're not using all of the available travel.

With a pothole, it's not uncommon for the suspension on one side to hit full droop and then be slammed up to the bumpstop depending on the severity of course.

Leaning into a corner is very mild no matter how violently you jerk the wheels side to side it can never compare to the sharpness of the pothole impact.

If we're talking potential, hard cornering has the potential to put more peak stress on the bar if the car goes all the way to the bumpstops. Obviously both ends are being twisted in opposite directions when cornering vs only one end being twisted on a pothole. The thing is, the car should not have enough body lean to come near the bumpstops so it won't be using all available travel. Now add very hard cornering and a bump on only the outside tires and you probably have maximum stress on the bar.

You can see why hitting a driveway at an angle places a ton of stress on the swaybar because you have one side twisting one way and the other side twisting the other way and they could easily get near their bumpstops.

More suspension travel gives the potential to twist the bar up more. Travel sets the bar's upper and lower end of travel limits. More than anything else these limits will determine the peak stress under the right scenario. It's not purely about suspenson travel as you said but it sets the limits.

Obviously if the car hits the same bump evenly on both sides, the swaybar is inactive. But they will most definately affect ride quality over roads that have bumps and dips on only one side of the lane.

Softening the Konis will make the small bumps less noticable but exaggerate the larger ones.