JTS97Z28

iTrader: (4)

I posted my pictures and driving impressions thread a couple weeks ago about my newly installed H&R Sports on my 08 Type S using stock shocks. At first I was absolutely thrilled with the ride, but after a couple weeks my thoughts on that have changed. The handling is much improved, and the ride quality on smooth to slightly bumpy roads is good, but on medium to moderate bumps its horrible. It jolts everybody and everything in the car and I just do not like having to worry about hitting bumps all the time, or explain to a passenger why my fancy Acura just hit them like a punch in the stomach going over that bump lol. The car doesnt bottom out or even come close to it, but it almost feels as if the suspension is bottoming out. Im not sure if it actually is or not, but regardless its not a comfortable ride. Whats weird is it wasnt even much of a drop so I am very surprised to see how poorly it handles bumps now. I measured before and after and the front dropped an inch, and the rear a half inch. And this was after a couple weeks of settling. The car looks awesome, but considering the ride height change really is minimal, im not sure im willing to jeopordize my ride wuality for an inch at most.
I originally didnt want to purchase expensive aftermarket shocks, but do the Konis for example fix this problem, or do they suffer from the same crappy ride characteristics on bumps as well? I read a thread I hate Cars made a long time ago about that even with different shocks the problem is suspension bottoming out and the only way to fix that is to modifiy the shock body to sit lower and thats something im not gonna be doing.

So what do you guys think? Does anything out there solve this problem, or is the price I have to pay for the slightly lowered look using stock shocks (aka the cheap way). Shocks are not bad BTW, my Type S only has 29,000 miles and handled bumps just fine prior to the lowering.

Thanks for any help.

James

Undying Dreams

iTrader: (3)

It comes with lowering, no way around it. My Tein coils ride great IMO but at times over harsh bumps, the ride is stiff and it jolts the whole car. I'm sure it would do the same on stock suspension but not as bad. I've learned to live with it.

As you said, the lowering it proved was minimal at best, so are the results worth the looks? Doesn't sound like it.

I can't convince you much because to be quite honest I know little about suspension, and nothing of lowering springs. These Teins are my first real experience with lowering a car. I may have sacrificed my ride quality some, but damn does it look good.

i_love_cars

iTrader: (1)

To me, whether you are on coils or lowering springs, or stock - the TL isn't some super comfy luxury car. It's no Lexus. It will never float over bumps the way tier 1 luxury brands do.

That said, if you want it lowered but retain as much of stock ride quality as possible, then you may want a-spec suspension instead.

I drove on the lowering springs for 9 months on Wisconsin roads and I actually had more people comment on how surprised they were that it wasn't horribly rough with lowering springs, relatively speaking.

I use Tein SA coils now but I am pretty aggressively dialed in for the track, so my car rides very stiff and is not a valid comparison, lol.

I didn't think the lowering springs compromised much ride quality.

geekybiker

You're going to lose some ride quality with lowering springs. Konis are a better shock and might help a little, but its still harsh over big bumps. Unfortunately nothing beats lots of travel for big bumps. I recommend selling the springs and picking up the aspec as well. It'll probably make you happy. Its not a huge change from the type-s suspension in either height or stiffness though, but lots of people like it.

JTS97Z28

iTrader: (4)

I thought about aspecs, but I have a feeling that it would be same as stock height. I was really surprised to see just how minimally these H&Rs lowered my car. Like I said before an inch in front and half inch rear. Don't get me wrong it stills rides good, it's just on the rare occasion if hitting a big bump that it seems to jolt ya pretty good.
Just for the heck of it I put my floor jacks under the front and rear of my car and put it to my pre-lowering heights, and although its not much, the car does look better lower....obviously.
Thanks for the suggestions, but I think aspecs are out of the question as I feel it would just put it to the same height or close to my original type s springs. I always thought the H&Rs were the perfect drop for me.

tomlinsonj

iTrader: (2)

My ASPEC suspension install gave me about 5/8-3/4" drop at each corner and superb ride quality. If you want your current stance but better ride quality than what you have, looks like you are on your way to more mixing and matching IMO.

KJ TL-S

iTrader: (9)

Why not the Tein SA that Austin mentioned?

I was on S Techs for probably a month, and found the ride to be rather jarring. Stitching to the full coilovers really made a big difference on ride quality, even when set fairly stiff. And height obviously is whatever you want. I myself am far from slammed, but lowered, and the ride and handling are great, especially when paired with the progress RSB.

anx1300c

iTrader: (2)

Odd that it dropped it so little? Mine dropped the car a solid 1.5" all around. Is the Type-S a bit lower in stock form? Mine is a little rough over large bumps with the H&R's and Konis set at a half turn from full soft, but with the Progress RSB and Continental DW's, the handling definitely makes it all worth it. It handles better than any decently sized FWD car has any business handling.

Honey Badger don't give a f*ck about what his passengers think.

KJ TL-S

iTrader: (9)

Type S is same height as base, just a slightly stiffer suspension I believe. I was surprised as well about the height, I would expect that little of drop from the A-Spec suspension, but not H&R Sports.

I lol'ed at the honey badger comment, well done

SharksBreath

iTrader: (33)

i think it's funny how some people lower their car on springs with a minimal drop, and still keep nice beefy tires on the car, yet complain of back jarring annoyances from bumps in the road.

my car is slammed, dampers set to full stiff, 19" wheels, and skinny 225 tires and I don't have any issues. my back feels fine. I guess we all experience comfort differently though.

OP, is everything installed and seated correctly?

JTS97Z28

iTrader: (4)

Yeah you guys with slammed cars I have no clue how you do it and still enjoy riding in your car ;-) Im not complaining about my back or anything, but I am getting a little older I guess haha. I just personally like to keep a car riding somewhat good like it was supposed to. Im not into slamming cars and tucking wheels or anything, I just wanted a slightly lower look with as close to stock ride as possible. It still seems these were the best springs to go with, its just a little rougher over larger bumps than I thought.

Everything is installed correctly and seated properly. Like I said its just over big bumps that its pretty jarring, its not like the car is rattling to pieces or anything it drives just fine.

Predatorbird

I'm really impressed with the ride quality of my Tein H-Techs. If you're dead set on springs, it might be something to consider swapping if you can pick up a used set.

sockr1

iTrader: (5)

i had the same experience, i put on the front H&R springs and was surprised at how the car bounced around sometimes on big dips and bumps but liked how it handled overall. before i had a chance to put on the rear set, i found some teins ss coilovers on the BM and went with those. much improved ride because i could dial in to my exact comfort level as well as with height.

so basically i sold my springs after a week of having them and learned the lesson to never go springs again and just go straight to coilovers (even though I only have a spring drop on them right now).

weird that the car didn't drop very much OP. what are you leaning towards as a solution right now?

JTS97Z28

iTrader: (4)

Well whats weird is that with the H&Rs the ride height is perfect, so who knows maybe my 08 Type S was sitting lower than normal I have no idea. Its almost as if my car was riding on aspecs already.

As of now my solution is either deal with the slightly detoriorated ride over bumps, or just put the original springs back on. The funny thing is im pretty anal about stuff so when I saw poor ride over bumps you guys would probably feel like its totally normal, so its not like the car is rattling apart over bumps or anything so dont get that impression, but its for sure more harsh than stock. I was sort of expecting that, but it was a bit more than I thought it would be after reading everyones reviews on these springs.

Undying Dreams

iTrader: (3)

Check the part numbers and compare to see if you indeed did have the A-Spec suspension.

350

iTrader: (4)

Do you have the Koni's on the lower perch? That's an extra 20mm lower (3/4"). Type S is the same height as base.

From the start the TL isn't really that smooth, my wife complains about bumps and I have base auto suspension. I'm still leaning towards Koni's with stock springs or A specs for a small drop, can't go more than an inch lower due to a steep driveway I frequent.

What about trying the Koni's with the H&R's and with your stock springs? You can get at least 3/4" lower with the stock springs or the middle perch and have the same height and adjust them softer. Worst case you sell the springs and have better handling Koni's and a slight drop.

Legitka9

iTrader: (1)

I have an idea for you James! Get the koni yellows and use them with the h&r's and if you don't like it, possibly set it on the low perch with your stock springs which would still drop it 20mm. Just an idea. I personally love the h&r's with konis.

4drviper

this....

JTS97Z28

iTrader: (4)

I just went and looked at my original springs and there are no part numbers on them. They are gloss black and the rears have a small blob on green and blue paint on different coils, and the fronts have brown and white I think it was. They are definitely OEM springs as I looked at my wife's Accord and hers have the exact same paint marks. I bought the car from the original owner and it was 100% stock so I can only assume they are not aspec springs.

Here are my fender measurements before and after lowering.

Before:
FL: 26 5/8 FR: 26 3/4
RL: 26 1/2 RR: 26 3/4

Rear (2 weeks after installing H&R sports and a few hundred miles)
FL: 25 5/8 FR: 25 3/4
RL: 25 3/4 RR: 26 1/4

The Machine

iTrader: (8)

Nah man, you should sell the car. Then in a few months buy a new TL-S for the 8th time. One with visors.

Comptechtl2367

I had the same issue with H&R on my 03 Accord. I loved how it handled and on small bumps it was fine... but I live in MN now and there is no such thing as nice roads and it rode like I had cut springs. Needless to say it went to stock within 2 months! (More because my fiance hated it then me)

sauceja

iTrader: (2)

And a manual tranny.

ebelp

If it seems like you're bottoming out, perhaps your stock shocks are shot. Not likely, but it would explain the harsh ride. The Koni's will solve the problem. I had them paired with Neuspeed Sport springs (which are very similar to your H&R's), and the ride quality was superb. Plus you can tweak the ride height with the Koni Yellows +/- 15mm with the adjustable perches. However, my gut feeling is that you just need a little more hair on your scrotum. Come drive my car and see what stiff suspension feels like.

JTS97Z28

iTrader: (4)

Haha, been there done that twice. The manual in these cars sucks I think.

I don't think it can be bad shocks because like I stated before it was perfect before H&R installation, and not only that my 08 is only pushin 29,000 miles.


Thanks for all the input guys. Basically what I have gathered is with lowering springs this crappy ride over bumps is to be expected. I can either deal with it or go back to stock. For now I'm digging the look though :-)

Acura604

yup..been there done that... wont lower anymore. hurts my head lol. no way around it.. unless... 'adjustable coils'.. 'air suspension'?

the 07-08 base had the smoothest suspension..LOVED IT... but the TL-S is a bit of a compromise for me.. if it wasn't so goddamn sexy, i wouldn't have traded the base away. hmmm.. base suspension swap? lol.

EATSLEEPRACE

iTrader: (1)

IMO H&R sports are the best springs I have driven on. Now you installed them with stock shocks,which is going to kill your shocks eventually and ride will get worse over time.

i had installed the H&R sports with brand new tokico shocks and loved it..... its like a happy medium between soft and stiff....

Wacker

Did you trim your bump stops at all? Are you sure you aren't bottoming out on them?

JTS97Z28

iTrader: (4)

No I did not trim my bump stops. I don't know if I'm actually bottoming out the suspension, I'm just saying that over large bumps it seems the car gets very floaty and sometimes is kind of jarring. Again, I'm pretty anal so what I think to be rough or jarring over big bumps might be different than what you guys think. Most of my driving is on relatively good roads so its not like I'm driving in the inner city with potholes or anything.

paperboy42190

iTrader: (7)

I think thats the problem with progressive springs. its soft when mildly compressed but, medium to hard bumps will get exponentially stiffer. I believe most aftermarket lowering springs are progressive springs. Maybe some linear springs are what you want? that SHOULD keep ride quality same over any size bump.

Wacker

I have coilovers on my 04, but I have a set of S-Techs timeout on the wife's 06. The instructions say to trim the bump stop by 1/3 or something like that to prevent bottoming out on it prematurely. This may be your issue.

paperboy42190

iTrader: (7)

Everyone keeps blaming the bump stops, but I'm pretty sure what James is describing is simply the effect of progressive springs. It's going to take a pretty hard hit on a bump to hit the bumpstops

KJ TL-S

iTrader: (9)

Maybe its partially due to his recent switch to A specs with a slightly shorter sidewall than the stock 17s.

JTS97Z28

iTrader: (4)

I took that into consideration as well, but it is for sure not the new wheels. I rode with the my original Type S wheels with Michelin tires with the H&Rs and the ride did the same thing over bumps. Infact, to my surprise I noticed little to no change going from the stock 17s to the 18" aspecs. So thats one thing I am happy with.

As for what George said about progressive springs he may be onto something there and what he explained is exactly what im talking about. On most road imperfections or bumps they feel same as stock for the most part, but as soon as the medium to large bumps come is when the impact because significantly more intense. Are there any linear springs available for our cars? Even though I dont really want to screw around with swapping springs it could be a good idea to see if that really has an effect on ride quality.

Wacker

We hit bump stops easier than you might think especially on springs. When you don't run coils with a shorter body you loose a LOT of suspension travel. Seeing he is on stock shocks it will remain where my finger is pointed.

Mrtastygoody

iTrader: (1)

With stock tire size, 235/45/17, the Aspec suspension brought me from whole hand gaps to 2 fingers in the front and 2 1/2 or 3 in the back. They're for sure stiffer than stock, but not stiff enough to piss me off, and bumps aren't really that bad. Handling is fantastic, of course. So I would definitely recommend the aspecs.

I hate cars

The TL sits surprisingly close to the bumpstops at factory height. Once you lower it at all you can bet the bumpstops are getting a workout even if you're not compressing them all the way. This is why I didn't want to lower mine much and also why I went with a pretty damn stiff spring. The stiff springs mean you will feel the small bumps more but the large bumps are much better assuming the stiff springs keep you off the bumpstops.

I modded the Konis by knocking off the tab and lowered the car by sliding the shock body down into the control arm, retaining full front suspension travel.

Coilovers... Coilovers offer ride height adjustability. A handful of them retain full suspension travel when lowered like my Koni mod does. This is one of the only advantages GOOD coilovers offer, full suspension travel when lowered which in our case is a pretty significant advantage.

You don't realize just how much you're on the bumpstops until you get your full travel back. When I did the Koni mod, I had the stock a-spec springs before and after and the car rode soooooooo much better over large bumps, it was night and day. Small bumps remained the same.

I had problems with sticky tires bottoming the rear suspension in hard corners and making the rear end slide very badly. It would slide and then unload and stick and then slide and unload and stick. It was a series of skips that you had to correct quickly with the steering. I fixed that with much stiffer rear springs which are hardly felt in the driver's seat but the rear passengers really notice.

Konis can help with the problem of hitting the bumpstops but IMO it's just a bandaid for not enough suspension travel. Since then, some people have had a hard time or have been unable to knock the tab off without destroying the shock just an FYI. Coilovers might be the way to go but you would have to verify they retain full suspension travel before buying.

So basically if small and medium bumps are ok but it feels like the spring rate quadrupled over large bumps even if there's no bang, trust me, it's the bumpstops, even on progressively wound springs (which I hate).

I hate cars

It takes very little to hit the bumpstops. I've verified it with the aspec springs and the car lowered 1.25". It would touch the cut down bumpstops over very light bumps that you barely feel. There was maybe a 1/4" gap between the bumpstop and shock body while sitting static. The bumpstops start interveining early on and the rate goes up very quickly as they compress.

I hate cars

To add a little more, there are a set of railroad tracks that I go over everyday coming home from work. They have a very sharp bump that I slow down to 15mph fo while traffic is going by me at 55mph. It's not just my car, the fiancee's Murano his the bumpstops over these tracks as well and it's stock and has a lot more travel than the TL. I see people whizzing by me slamming the crap out of their suspensions but I guess they don't know any better.

Anyway, I bought some of those spring spacers and they fit in the front coils pefectly, tight enough that they won't move around but they didn't raise the front of the car up. I've done this several times to this car to get an idea of how a stiffer spring would feel and then having a local shop make me the same thing but with no need for the spacer. The first thing I noticed was going over the tracks with the stiffer front springs reduced the jarring over the tracks. I picked up speed to see how fast I can go without the harshness and I can do about 35mph now which is much safer than slowing to 15mph.

So again, if the springs are just too stiff the small bumps are going to be annoying. If only the large bumps annoy you, you're hitting the bumpstops. Progressive springs are sometimes noticeable but the rate increase is nowhere nearly enough to do what the OP is describing.

I hate progressives because to me it feels like I lose that initial response time when I turn or brake. They're only good for lessening the feel of small bumps anyway. I wouldn't mind a progressive that was plenty stiff at normal travel but stiffened up 1,000% right before you smash the bumpstops.

Edit: I'm going to give Mr Bell a heart attack with all of these posts. Feel free to merge them if you want. I haven't had my morning coffee yet, still waking up and scatterbrianed.

Legitka9

iTrader: (1)

Correct me if I'm wrong ihc but I think modding the konis and removing the mount tab to drop the shock lower into the fork would actually lower the car but the suspension travel would be the exact same? The length of the spring while fully compressed under load is what would give you the amount of suspension travel. At best, I think the suspension travel would be the same but the area of the actual shock rod that gets worked may be different.

I was just thinking about this, the stock springs are much longer than the lowering springs while uncompressed and off the car.

Maybe if you want to retain the great ride quality and still go a little lower, koni yellows with aspec springs on the lowest perch?

Legitka9

iTrader: (1)

That's strange that some of you guys are hitting bumpstops. I didn't even trim my bumpstops and have not hit them yet, maybe because I'm on full stiff?