Rear Tire Wear - Update
01-03-2005, 07:45 PM
#41
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Originally Posted by ITL
FYI
I just rotated my tires for the first time at 9756 miles and noticed no uneven wear on the rears...Looks like I'm a little more than halfway through the life of the Potenzas.
I just rotated my tires for the first time at 9756 miles and noticed no uneven wear on the rears...Looks like I'm a little more than halfway through the life of the Potenzas.
Thanks.
bluenoser
01-04-2005, 08:47 AM
#43
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Originally Posted by bluenoser
How has the car been driven...ie. Highway, city etc. # of passengers, luggage or weight in the trunk, air pressure, type of road surface ( smooth pavement, chip coat, concrete).
Thanks.
bluenoser
Thanks.
bluenoser
01-04-2005, 01:06 PM
#44
The Oracle of Acurazine!
i drove 26000 miles with el42's and they were rotated 3 times. Now they are gone and i'm looking for new tires... my car has 1 inch drop and i've got my camber kit... so we'll see how this guys with me. 
01-04-2005, 03:21 PM
#45
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Extreme wear!!!
I've got a total of 12k miles on my A-Spec TL now and the tires are gone!
The first 9k miles I noticed only minor (normal) tire wear on both the front and rear tires. I recently took a road trip to KC from Tampa and the rear tires were worn down to wear bars. I rotated the tires to get home, moving the front tires with lots of tread to the rear. We stopped for gas several times and continually had to check the tire to ensure it was still intact. The wear was so rapid you could litterly see the tire deteriorate between stops. I have a digital tire pressure guage that I used to check the tire pressure before leaving Tampa. In KC, Superior Acura did an oil change and check the tire pressure again and said everything is ok. All 4 tires are now worn down to the wear bars.
First thing I did when returning to town is to take the car to the Acura dealer where it was purchased. They inspected the vehicle and said the alignment is within specs. There is nothing else they can do. Since the Yokohama's are summer performance tires, they don't have a warranty.
I now have a car that is nearly new, bald tires and a bad feeling in the back of my mind that it will happen again. The service manager at the local dealer said this has been a problem with the standard equipment tires also. Why doesn't Acura put 2 and 2 together and realize this is a problem they need to fix. I refuse to keep buying rear tires due to poor engineering.
Suggestions?
The first 9k miles I noticed only minor (normal) tire wear on both the front and rear tires. I recently took a road trip to KC from Tampa and the rear tires were worn down to wear bars. I rotated the tires to get home, moving the front tires with lots of tread to the rear. We stopped for gas several times and continually had to check the tire to ensure it was still intact. The wear was so rapid you could litterly see the tire deteriorate between stops. I have a digital tire pressure guage that I used to check the tire pressure before leaving Tampa. In KC, Superior Acura did an oil change and check the tire pressure again and said everything is ok. All 4 tires are now worn down to the wear bars.
First thing I did when returning to town is to take the car to the Acura dealer where it was purchased. They inspected the vehicle and said the alignment is within specs. There is nothing else they can do. Since the Yokohama's are summer performance tires, they don't have a warranty.
I now have a car that is nearly new, bald tires and a bad feeling in the back of my mind that it will happen again. The service manager at the local dealer said this has been a problem with the standard equipment tires also. Why doesn't Acura put 2 and 2 together and realize this is a problem they need to fix. I refuse to keep buying rear tires due to poor engineering.
Suggestions?
01-04-2005, 03:30 PM
#46
Racer
Originally Posted by Brokedoc
When there is a significant difference in remaining tread (like replacing 2 new tires only), the tires with more tread should ALWAYS go on the REAR regardless of drive wheel. In a nutshell, you need more tread to keep the rear planted when turning. Otherwise, you'll lose control of the car.
Most informative and technical explanation from Tire Rack
In case you need more proof:
Goodyear FAQ
Costco FAQ
Uniroyal FAQ
Discount Tire Ctr FAQ
Many more links to back this up.
Most informative and technical explanation from Tire Rack
In case you need more proof:
Goodyear FAQ
Costco FAQ
Uniroyal FAQ
Discount Tire Ctr FAQ
Many more links to back this up.
01-04-2005, 03:41 PM
#49
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01-04-2005, 03:43 PM
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I give up if this doesn't work...
http://www.vdubgruven.com/IMG_0046.jpg
http://www.vdubgruven.com/IMG_0047.jpg
http://www.vdubgruven.com/IMG_0048.jpg
http://www.vdubgruven.com/IMG_0049.jpg
http://www.vdubgruven.com/IMG_0050.jpg
http://www.vdubgruven.com/IMG_0051.jpg
http://www.vdubgruven.com/IMG_0052.jpg
http://www.vdubgruven.com/IMG_0046.jpg
http://www.vdubgruven.com/IMG_0047.jpg
http://www.vdubgruven.com/IMG_0048.jpg
http://www.vdubgruven.com/IMG_0049.jpg
http://www.vdubgruven.com/IMG_0050.jpg
http://www.vdubgruven.com/IMG_0051.jpg
http://www.vdubgruven.com/IMG_0052.jpg
01-04-2005, 05:01 PM
#52
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that's rediculous yo! I would buy new tires and send acura the bill with nice little legal demand letter. They need to get their shit together and stop dicking around with other peoples time and money. That and a bitch slap will do wonders for you!
01-06-2005, 02:35 AM
#53
04 A-TL 6MT SSM/E N/Navi
Originally Posted by vdubgruven
I've got a total of 12k miles on my A-Spec TL now and the tires are gone!
The first 9k miles I noticed only minor (normal) tire wear on both the front and rear tires. I recently took a road trip to KC from Tampa and the rear tires were worn down to wear bars. I rotated the tires to get home, moving the front tires with lots of tread to the rear. We stopped for gas several times and continually had to check the tire to ensure it was still intact. The wear was so rapid you could litterly see the tire deteriorate between stops. I have a digital tire pressure guage that I used to check the tire pressure before leaving Tampa. In KC, Superior Acura did an oil change and check the tire pressure again and said everything is ok. All 4 tires are now worn down to the wear bars.
First thing I did when returning to town is to take the car to the Acura dealer where it was purchased. They inspected the vehicle and said the alignment is within specs. There is nothing else they can do. Since the Yokohama's are summer performance tires, they don't have a warranty.
I now have a car that is nearly new, bald tires and a bad feeling in the back of my mind that it will happen again. The service manager at the local dealer said this has been a problem with the standard equipment tires also. Why doesn't Acura put 2 and 2 together and realize this is a problem they need to fix. I refuse to keep buying rear tires due to poor engineering.
Suggestions?
The first 9k miles I noticed only minor (normal) tire wear on both the front and rear tires. I recently took a road trip to KC from Tampa and the rear tires were worn down to wear bars. I rotated the tires to get home, moving the front tires with lots of tread to the rear. We stopped for gas several times and continually had to check the tire to ensure it was still intact. The wear was so rapid you could litterly see the tire deteriorate between stops. I have a digital tire pressure guage that I used to check the tire pressure before leaving Tampa. In KC, Superior Acura did an oil change and check the tire pressure again and said everything is ok. All 4 tires are now worn down to the wear bars.
First thing I did when returning to town is to take the car to the Acura dealer where it was purchased. They inspected the vehicle and said the alignment is within specs. There is nothing else they can do. Since the Yokohama's are summer performance tires, they don't have a warranty.
I now have a car that is nearly new, bald tires and a bad feeling in the back of my mind that it will happen again. The service manager at the local dealer said this has been a problem with the standard equipment tires also. Why doesn't Acura put 2 and 2 together and realize this is a problem they need to fix. I refuse to keep buying rear tires due to poor engineering.
Suggestions?
My tires was replaced by dealer, but it was in better condition. Just show to dealer all threads with rear tires problems. You can find sooo many here.
08-26-2005, 12:49 PM
#54
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Originally Posted by bluenoser
Sorry for the long post, but I believe this is a problem that takes a little time to become apparent - unless you travel with passengers and luggage.
There is a geometry problem affecting all 3rd Generation TLs that will cause the rear tires to wear out (or wear faster than the fronts).
I first found this when I travelled 4,400 miles, carrying four adults and luggage, and wore out two sets of rear tires in the process.
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...9&page=2&pp=25
My dealer checked my alignment and, although it was within specs, set it to the center of the specification. I should note that I've got a very obliging dealer, who then installed a new set of tires.
In the 6,000 miles since, the car has been driven exclusively by my wife with no passengers or load - with the exception of one 1,00 mile trip with four passengers. This was enough to cause excessive wear to the rear tires (HPT). Fronts 9/32, rears 4/32.
I took the car back to the dealer to find out what's wrong.
After inspecting my car they said there was nothing wrong whatsoever, so they called Acura Technical Support who said they were aware of a geometry problem that caused excessive total toe in when the rear suspension is compressed. They suggested a comprimise setting of .09" total toe. Mine is .1" empty and 1.30" (this is over 14times what it should be) with five passengers - no luggage. This is excessive toe and will cause tires to wear very fast.
This problem will affect every 04/05 TL with factory rear alignment settings.
It is very noticeable for anyone who carrys four passengers/ luggage (or similar load) and takes a trip of more than 1,000 miles.
Those who travel light probably won't notice that the rears have worn slightly more than the fronts (and by the time they're rotated it appears that the tires are just wearing quickly - after all they're performance tires and supposed to wear quickly). Few people actually check the rear tires of a front driver for wear, which makes this defect go somewhat unnoticed.
This is bound to be noticed by average drivers more than aggressive drivers, since tire life (or lack thereof) is almost a badge of honor for fast drivers.
At this point I still don't have my car back to see what the final outcome is, but I suspect Acura will have to issue a total recall to fix this issue.
There is a geometry problem affecting all 3rd Generation TLs that will cause the rear tires to wear out (or wear faster than the fronts).
I first found this when I travelled 4,400 miles, carrying four adults and luggage, and wore out two sets of rear tires in the process.
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...9&page=2&pp=25
My dealer checked my alignment and, although it was within specs, set it to the center of the specification. I should note that I've got a very obliging dealer, who then installed a new set of tires.
In the 6,000 miles since, the car has been driven exclusively by my wife with no passengers or load - with the exception of one 1,00 mile trip with four passengers. This was enough to cause excessive wear to the rear tires (HPT). Fronts 9/32, rears 4/32.
I took the car back to the dealer to find out what's wrong.
After inspecting my car they said there was nothing wrong whatsoever, so they called Acura Technical Support who said they were aware of a geometry problem that caused excessive total toe in when the rear suspension is compressed. They suggested a comprimise setting of .09" total toe. Mine is .1" empty and 1.30" (this is over 14times what it should be) with five passengers - no luggage. This is excessive toe and will cause tires to wear very fast.
This problem will affect every 04/05 TL with factory rear alignment settings.
It is very noticeable for anyone who carrys four passengers/ luggage (or similar load) and takes a trip of more than 1,000 miles.
Those who travel light probably won't notice that the rears have worn slightly more than the fronts (and by the time they're rotated it appears that the tires are just wearing quickly - after all they're performance tires and supposed to wear quickly). Few people actually check the rear tires of a front driver for wear, which makes this defect go somewhat unnoticed.
This is bound to be noticed by average drivers more than aggressive drivers, since tire life (or lack thereof) is almost a badge of honor for fast drivers.
At this point I still don't have my car back to see what the final outcome is, but I suspect Acura will have to issue a total recall to fix this issue.
08-26-2005, 11:28 PM
#55
Burning Brakes
I think there really is something very fishy about the inherant design of the TL's rear suspension. You either have decent tire wear or you have horrific tire wear. Nothing short of the Nissan 350Z front suspension issues has generated so much talk about tire wear in my recent memory. Please keep us all updated.
dsc888
dsc888
08-28-2005, 08:54 PM
#56
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alignment specs
Originally Posted by dsc888
I think there really is something very fishy about the inherant design of the TL's rear suspension. You either have decent tire wear or you have horrific tire wear. Nothing short of the Nissan 350Z front suspension issues has generated so much talk about tire wear in my recent memory. Please keep us all updated.
dsc888
dsc888
I suspect it's alignment QC. I have A-spec with Yokohama. 15K now and tread wear is normal front and rear (pretty even too with one tire rotate). I estimate another 15K left on summer tires. that's pretty good. however, my friend went through 3 sets of rear already. Last time I saw, his rear tires were again like slick. Have your alignment check. I heard few people fixed their rear tire wear problem by simply just bring alignment back to spec. also note A-spec settings are different then regular TL. If you just go to some local shop they might not use the correct settings for A-spec.
regular front
Camber -0deg 30' +- 30'
Caster 3deg 17' +- 45deg
toe in 0mm +-2mm
regular rear
Camber -1deg 00' +- 30'
Caster N/A
toe in 2mm +-2mm
A-spec front
Camber -0deg 40' +- 30'
Caster 3deg 17' +- 45deg
toe in 0mm +-2mm
A-spec rear
Camber -1deg 20' +- 30'
Caster N/A
toe in 2mm +-2mm
Check with whoever is doing your alignment (i recommend Acura at least you can hold them responsible for tire wear if it doesn't work), make sure they have these specs right. hope this helps.
09-03-2005, 10:45 PM
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'Bump Stop' fix ordered from Acura dealer
I took my 2004 TL to a different dealer as the one in Ottawa would not do anything about the wear on my Yokohama AVS ES100s. I have only 13000 kms on them and there are only 5/32s left of tread...they looked at all the specs and found the suspesion to have no issues. The old dealer had my 18s running at 32psi when they should be at (front) 39 psi and (rear) 36 psi. After talking to them and asking them to contact the technical support guys at Acura Canada - pingobango...the 'fix' for excessive wear on tires was ordered - bump stops for rear suspension are on their way!!
Since I usually have the tires rotated every 5000 kms - all four tires are showing the same wear. I'm working on having Acura step up and replaced the tires - will keep you posted.
TL owners in Ottawa - take a good look at Casino Acura - they are much better than the dealer in Ottawa and worth the drive...besides.....you can walk over to the Casino and try and make some of the purchase price back
I also calles Atlantic Acura and spoke with Anthony and Ku there - they were very informative - it goes to show that are some dealers that care...looks like now know two!!!
Demetrius
Since I usually have the tires rotated every 5000 kms - all four tires are showing the same wear. I'm working on having Acura step up and replaced the tires - will keep you posted.
TL owners in Ottawa - take a good look at Casino Acura - they are much better than the dealer in Ottawa and worth the drive...besides.....you can walk over to the Casino and try and make some of the purchase price back
I also calles Atlantic Acura and spoke with Anthony and Ku there - they were very informative - it goes to show that are some dealers that care...looks like now know two!!!
Demetrius
09-04-2005, 01:44 AM
#58
Good to see that Casino Acura's service is better than their sales department.
While dealing with them this past spring to acquire my 2005 ABP TL, everything was fine until I was ready to sign the contract and the sales manager (a Lady) popped that there would be a $300 fee added to the invoice for the administration of the sale.
I mentioned to her that this is illegal in Quebec according to the Consumer Protection Board and since she would not bulged, I walked out and made my purchase elsewhere for the same price without the $300 fee.
Best regards
frenchnew
While dealing with them this past spring to acquire my 2005 ABP TL, everything was fine until I was ready to sign the contract and the sales manager (a Lady) popped that there would be a $300 fee added to the invoice for the administration of the sale.
I mentioned to her that this is illegal in Quebec according to the Consumer Protection Board and since she would not bulged, I walked out and made my purchase elsewhere for the same price without the $300 fee.
Best regards
frenchnew
Originally Posted by demellie
I took my 2004 TL to a different dealer as the one in Ottawa would not do anything about the wear on my Yokohama AVS ES100s. I have only 13000 kms on them and there are only 5/32s left of tread...they looked at all the specs and found the suspesion to have no issues. The old dealer had my 18s running at 32psi when they should be at (front) 39 psi and (rear) 36 psi. After talking to them and asking them to contact the technical support guys at Acura Canada - pingobango...the 'fix' for excessive wear on tires was ordered - bump stops for rear suspension are on their way!!
Since I usually have the tires rotated every 5000 kms - all four tires are showing the same wear. I'm working on having Acura step up and replaced the tires - will keep you posted.
TL owners in Ottawa - take a good look at Casino Acura - they are much better than the dealer in Ottawa and worth the drive...besides.....you can walk over to the Casino and try and make some of the purchase price back
I also calles Atlantic Acura and spoke with Anthony and Ku there - they were very informative - it goes to show that are some dealers that care...looks like now know two!!!
Demetrius
Since I usually have the tires rotated every 5000 kms - all four tires are showing the same wear. I'm working on having Acura step up and replaced the tires - will keep you posted.
TL owners in Ottawa - take a good look at Casino Acura - they are much better than the dealer in Ottawa and worth the drive...besides.....you can walk over to the Casino and try and make some of the purchase price back
I also calles Atlantic Acura and spoke with Anthony and Ku there - they were very informative - it goes to show that are some dealers that care...looks like now know two!!!
Demetrius
09-06-2005, 03:35 PM
#59
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Originally Posted by ttliang
I suspect it's alignment QC. I have A-spec with Yokohama. 15K now and tread wear is normal front and rear (pretty even too with one tire rotate). I estimate another 15K left on summer tires. that's pretty good. however, my friend went through 3 sets of rear already. Last time I saw, his rear tires were again like slick. Have your alignment check. I heard few people fixed their rear tire wear problem by simply just bring alignment back to spec. also note A-spec settings are different then regular TL. If you just go to some local shop they might not use the correct settings for A-spec.
regular front
Camber -0deg 30' +- 30'
Caster 3deg 17' +- 45deg
toe in 0mm +-2mm
regular rear
Camber -1deg 00' +- 30'
Caster N/A
toe in 2mm +-2mm
A-spec front
Camber -0deg 40' +- 30'
Caster 3deg 17' +- 45deg
toe in 0mm +-2mm
A-spec rear
Camber -1deg 20' +- 30'
Caster N/A
toe in 2mm +-2mm
Check with whoever is doing your alignment (i recommend Acura at least you can hold them responsible for tire wear if it doesn't work), make sure they have these specs right. hope this helps.
regular front
Camber -0deg 30' +- 30'
Caster 3deg 17' +- 45deg
toe in 0mm +-2mm
regular rear
Camber -1deg 00' +- 30'
Caster N/A
toe in 2mm +-2mm
A-spec front
Camber -0deg 40' +- 30'
Caster 3deg 17' +- 45deg
toe in 0mm +-2mm
A-spec rear
Camber -1deg 20' +- 30'
Caster N/A
toe in 2mm +-2mm
Check with whoever is doing your alignment (i recommend Acura at least you can hold them responsible for tire wear if it doesn't work), make sure they have these specs right. hope this helps.
09-07-2005, 09:20 AM
#60
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Originally Posted by SBTL
Where did you get these numbers from? My dealer's service dept. insists there is no difference between A-SPEC and stock alignment settings and I've just about burned through my second set of tires in 12,000 miles (OEM Yokohamas ES100's followed by Falken ST115's). I asked for an alignment and new set of tires on ACURA and he said the tire wear would be uneven (inside versus outside of the tire) if it was an alignment issue and that even wear is not an alignment issue.
i got these from Acura technical assist by calling the 800 number on their website. no difference is bull*. it's well known Aspec has little different settings due to lowering. they referred me to my local dealer at first but i told him that my dealer said everything is in the computer therefore they couldn't give me a print out. 10mins later the fax from Acura arrived with the mentioned numbers.
someone, a post or 2 earlier, also mentioned about "bump stops" for rear suspension. i have no idea what that is or how it contributes to rear tire wear problem but it's probably a worthy investigation. it'd be great if the original poster can follow up with the result and explanations.
09-08-2005, 12:07 PM
#61
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Who to believe...?
ttliang I would really like to see your actual doccument from ACURA...I'm happy to fax you mine. I just called the same 800 number on the ACURA Owner Link web site and asked them about the alignment for stock versus A-SPEC and again...the customer rep tells me it's the same for both. I asked them to fax me the doccuments, which they did, and the alignment settings in the A-SPEC instalation manual are identical to the stock TL alignment settings which are correct in your post that you call "regular". I have both pages! If you pm me, I'll give you my fax number and we can trade.
09-08-2005, 02:44 PM
#62
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Originally Posted by SBTL
ttliang I would really like to see your actual doccument from ACURA...I'm happy to fax you mine. I just called the same 800 number on the ACURA Owner Link web site and asked them about the alignment for stock versus A-SPEC and again...the customer rep tells me it's the same for both. I asked them to fax me the doccuments, which they did, and the alignment settings in the A-SPEC instalation manual are identical to the stock TL alignment settings which are correct in your post that you call "regular". I have both pages! If you pm me, I'll give you my fax number and we can trade.
yeah sure. this is getting interesting. your fax please.
10-06-2005, 04:59 PM
#63
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SBTL and ttlinag - any update on what the A-Spec alignment figures should be? I'm picking up an '05 w/ A-Spec package (18" rims, suspension, body kit, lip spoiler) tomorrow and want to have the dealership check the alignment in a couple of weeks once the suspension has settled. All this talk about ripping through tires like there's no tomorrow has got me a little worried. Based on this thread, these are the alignment figures:
FRONT
Toe-In: 0.00" + - 2mm (+ - 0.08")
Camber: - 0 deg 40' + - 30'
Castor: + 3 deg 17' + - 45'
REAR
Toe-In: 2mm + - 2mm (+ - 0.08")
Camber: - 1 deg 20' + - 30'
Castor: n/a
Anybody wanna add their
?
FRONT
Toe-In: 0.00" + - 2mm (+ - 0.08")
Camber: - 0 deg 40' + - 30'
Castor: + 3 deg 17' + - 45'
REAR
Toe-In: 2mm + - 2mm (+ - 0.08")
Camber: - 1 deg 20' + - 30'
Castor: n/a
Anybody wanna add their
?
10-06-2005, 08:28 PM
#64
2005TL(6MT)
I would also like to know about the specs. The Helms manual does not mention
A-Spec and but does differentiate a between the 2004 and 2005 rear toe-in.
Alignment specs from the Helms service manual (keeping the Owners manual order which also has the same numbers):
The front toe-in is 0.00" +- 2mm(+-0.08")
2004 rear toe-in is 0.08" +-2mm(+-0.08")
2005 rear toe-in is 0.00" +-2mm(+-0.08")
The front camber is -0deg30' +-30'
The rear camber is -1deg00' +-30'
The front castor is +3deg17' +-45'
The only difference between 2004 and 2005 stated in Helms is the rear toe-in. The 2004 is 2mm (0.08") +- 2mm(+-0.08") and the 2005 is 0.0mm (0.00") +- 2mm(+-0.08").
A-Spec and but does differentiate a between the 2004 and 2005 rear toe-in.
Alignment specs from the Helms service manual (keeping the Owners manual order which also has the same numbers):
The front toe-in is 0.00" +- 2mm(+-0.08")
2004 rear toe-in is 0.08" +-2mm(+-0.08")
2005 rear toe-in is 0.00" +-2mm(+-0.08")
The front camber is -0deg30' +-30'
The rear camber is -1deg00' +-30'
The front castor is +3deg17' +-45'
The only difference between 2004 and 2005 stated in Helms is the rear toe-in. The 2004 is 2mm (0.08") +- 2mm(+-0.08") and the 2005 is 0.0mm (0.00") +- 2mm(+-0.08").
10-07-2005, 12:06 PM
#65
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As I've indicated, my dealer and ACURA have told me that for the 2004, the A-SPEC alignment specs are no different than stock and ACURA faxed me the specs. Ttliang got a different set of specs from ACURA than I did indicating that there is a difference and I’m not sure which is correct. (The actual specs are in my car so I don’t have them to copy here.) I plan to address this with my dealer at my next service and will try to get a free alignment (using the right specs I hope) on warranty. Interestingly, the info I was faxed from ACURA also indicated that I was supposed to get a certificate of authenticity from ACURA for having the A-SPEC kit installed which I never got. I don’t know anyone else who got one either so I’m going to have them address that as well.
11-05-2005, 01:54 PM
#66
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Premature tire wear and alignment update...
I returned to my dealer yesterday and discussed the controversy regarding alignment specs between stock and A-spec. My service manager had called Acura technical service and again was told that there is no difference between the stock and A-spec alignment specs which is what I was told on 2 separate occasions when I called Acura customer service. The specs Acura faxed to me were identical to my service managers specs (and were identical to Ttliangs “regular” front and rear in his post above) Ttliang got slightly different specs (camber only) for the “a-spec” suspension but if you compare the camber spec ranges there is minimal difference between his “A-spec” and “regular” camber specs. Somewhat suspicious is that on the document he faxed to me it refers to “sport suspension” but nowhere on his document does it say A-spec, nor does it indicate that the document is from Acura or Honda as mine does. In any case, my Toe settings were way off on 3 of my four wheels and were reset within spec. Since Toe is the most important setting in regards to tire wear, I'm hoping this resolves my pre-mature tire wear. The alignment was done on warranty. Because I had burned through 2 sets of tires in 13,000 miles my service manager “did the right thing” and gave me a new set of Yokohama AVS ES 100’s 235/40/18’s also on warranty. I’d be happy with 15k miles on a set of tires. I’ll keep you all updated.
11-07-2005, 12:31 PM
#67
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yeah keep us posted. i don't think the version u got were way off. i think you did the right thing by letting the dealer do their thing so they'd back it up if something should go wrong later. this could either prove or break the "alignment was the culprit for rear tire wear problem" theory. my Yokos are still going strong after almost 20Kmi.
11-07-2005, 03:24 PM
#68
Cold Racketeer
Originally Posted by bluenoser
Ron, I think Acura will have to deal with this one more seriously since there's a handling/ safety issue here as well. I didn't mention it but when travelling in a straight line (with passengers) the rear tires will steer the car if you hit a rolling section of road which places uneven loads on the rear tires.
Say you've loaded the left rear tire, the rear end moves right making the front of the car point left. In order to stay in your lane, you have to make a right turn steering correction.
You may recall there were a couple of professional testers (C&D was one) who commented on strange or twitchy handling. I believe they were going fast enough to compress the rear suspension, in their tests, and discovered the effects of this dramatic toe in change.
Say you've loaded the left rear tire, the rear end moves right making the front of the car point left. In order to stay in your lane, you have to make a right turn steering correction.
You may recall there were a couple of professional testers (C&D was one) who commented on strange or twitchy handling. I believe they were going fast enough to compress the rear suspension, in their tests, and discovered the effects of this dramatic toe in change.
11-07-2005, 04:27 PM
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Does anyone know if the 2006's are facing the same issues?
It would seem like there are a few possible ways to reduce the impact of this problem:
1) run at the minimum toe-in setting allowed by the spec.
2) Instlall bump-stops that will limit suspension compression, and thus ultimate toe-in.
3) Switch over to a high rate spring (or coil over) with tighter shock valving that will also reduce suspension travel. This would be the preferred solution. Acura replaces our stock suspension parts with Zeal Function Xs coilovers under warrantee....
What about you guys in the forum that are running high rate springs? Have any of you been seeing the rear tire wear problem?
It would seem like there are a few possible ways to reduce the impact of this problem:
1) run at the minimum toe-in setting allowed by the spec.
2) Instlall bump-stops that will limit suspension compression, and thus ultimate toe-in.
3) Switch over to a high rate spring (or coil over) with tighter shock valving that will also reduce suspension travel. This would be the preferred solution. Acura replaces our stock suspension parts with Zeal Function Xs coilovers under warrantee....
What about you guys in the forum that are running high rate springs? Have any of you been seeing the rear tire wear problem?
11-07-2005, 07:56 PM
#70
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I have experienced bizzare steering while accelerating hard. I think this is finally the answer... the acceleration shifts the weight to the back wheels, which then toe in and cause strange handling. I was wondering what was causing this, and now I think it's more clear. I assumed it was what people call torque steer, or maybe even VSA... but now I am thinking this is the culprit. I have to hit the gas pretty hard to get the effect I am talking about, but when it hits full force, it can be a struggle to keep the wheel straight.
It's a different story if one wheel is more loaded than the other. In cornering, the outside wheel is more loaded and the suspension is designed to increase the toe in on that wheel, thereby helping the car turn. This isn't a problem because you're expecting the car to turn. However, if you are traveling in a straight line and you hit uneven pavement, one wheel can experience more travel than the other. In this instance, the wheel that has moved the most will have the greatest toe change. That wheel will attempt to help steer the car. I believe that is one the reasons the alignment specifications for the rear wheels were changed from the 2004 to the 2005 model year. (The other is to reduce rear tire wear. Excessive toe can be a significant factor in scrubing off rubber.)
11-09-2005, 09:34 AM
#71
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Sorry i just for some reasons couldn't let this one go. my local tire shop just got a brand new $30K alignment machines and i had a chance to compare the number i posted earlier for A-spec with their stock 04-05 TL data stored in the computer. surprisingly, primary target numbers are a bit different but they are all within each other's +- range therefore within spec. so i did a alignment using regular TL spec from his machine on my A-spec and seems fine so far on everything. just FYI.
12-12-2005, 01:14 PM
#72
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I got rear right tire flat and brining in car to fix it to dealer.
I believe this is serious issue and all TL owners need to get this fixed. So what do I tell them to change? I am not exactly understanding what is the number they should make adjustment to.
I believe this is serious issue and all TL owners need to get this fixed. So what do I tell them to change? I am not exactly understanding what is the number they should make adjustment to.
01-04-2006, 06:32 PM
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Unhappy New Year Surprise
Ok, you can add me to the list of unsuspecting TL owners who developed "racing slicks" in only four months and 15k miles. Was heading up I-5 towards Sacramento from Bakersfield in the rain when the car started fishtailing and hydroplaning. Had to slow down to 45 mph as angry motorists in their Ford escorts and old Honda Civics were passing us. It was at the next rest area that we discovered that our two rear tires were bald. When we took the vehicle to Niello Acura where we purchased it, the service rep blamed it on the stock Bridgestones and seemed to pass it off as normal. That was today (Jan. 4,) and we ordered 4 Michelin Pilots. We stressed that we want the problem fixed, but on our service order sheet things look routine. The car was due for its class B service and 4 tires, alignment and spin balance. I will make sure that this is documented and you better well believe that we will be monitoring the situation closely. Niello has so far made no offers for a discount on the tires or anything else. I feel like there is a cover up going on. Hey, I mean even Bridgstones should not wear out in 4 months of mainly freeway driving. Yes we put luggage in the trunk. Shame on us. I'm pretty P.O.ed right now and am almost sorry I bought the TL. Can't afford to purchase tires every 4 months. If theres a class action in the future unless there's a recall, sign me up
01-04-2006, 08:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Randbosacura
Ok, you can add me to the list of unsuspecting TL owners who developed "racing slicks" in only four months and 15k miles. Was heading up I-5 towards Sacramento from Bakersfield in the rain when the car started fishtailing and hydroplaning. Had to slow down to 45 mph as angry motorists in their Ford escorts and old Honda Civics were passing us. It was at the next rest area that we discovered that our two rear tires were bald. When we took the vehicle to Niello Acura where we purchased it, the service rep blamed it on the stock Bridgestones and seemed to pass it off as normal. That was today (Jan. 4,) and we ordered 4 Michelin Pilots. We stressed that we want the problem fixed, but on our service order sheet things look routine. The car was due for its class B service and 4 tires, alignment and spin balance. I will make sure that this is documented and you better well believe that we will be monitoring the situation closely. Niello has so far made no offers for a discount on the tires or anything else. I feel like there is a cover up going on. Hey, I mean even Bridgstones should not wear out in 4 months of mainly freeway driving. Yes we put luggage in the trunk. Shame on us. I'm pretty P.O.ed right now and am almost sorry I bought the TL. Can't afford to purchase tires every 4 months. If theres a class action in the future unless there's a recall, sign me up
Randbos,
I see you're new. Welcome aboard! Check out this thread: https://acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=129086
It's about a service bulletin regarding the Bridgestones. You should definitely discuss this bulletin with your dealer. Hopefully it will help with the process.
New tires on a TL at 15k miles is ridiculous... Good luck!
01-04-2006, 10:41 PM
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Thanks Caha14
Am grateful for your input. I printed out that service bulletin and will bring it in tomorrow when the work is done, to make sure they made the proper adjustments. They're keeping it overnight which gives me time to "simma down." Was always meaning to upgrade the tires, but not right away. They probably won't give me any deals on the upgrade to Michelin but who knows. In reality I still think its a great driving experience which could be even better now.
01-05-2006, 01:00 AM
#77
Originally Posted by Randbosacura
Am grateful for your input. I printed out that service bulletin and will bring it in tomorrow when the work is done, to make sure they made the proper adjustments. They're keeping it overnight which gives me time to "simma down." Was always meaning to upgrade the tires, but not right away. They probably won't give me any deals on the upgrade to Michelin but who knows. In reality I still think its a great driving experience which could be even better now.
They can prorate, and put the money toward the new tires, I guess. Wouldn't hurt to ask.
01-05-2006, 08:18 PM
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[QUOTE=They can prorate, and put the money toward the new tires, I guess. Wouldn't hurt to ask.[/QUOTE]
I'm researching this tire problem heavily. Today I found out that Nissan Maxima / Altima models come with Bridgestone EL42s, and they *also* say in the comments on tirerack.com that this tire sucks.
But -- get this -- on tirerack.com, Nissaners are reporting average tire life at close to 40,000 miles. If you scan ACURA owners, about 85% are opting to get rid of their Bridgestone Turanza EL42s before 20,000 miles.
HUGE difference.
Our '05 has 8 months and 15,000 miles, and we're almost to the wear bars. We did *not* expect to have an extra $100 a month in tire expense when we traded in our 04' TSX (which, with 25,000 miles, still had over half the tread on the OEMs).
This coming Monday morning I'm at Open Road Acura, Route 18 in East Brunswick, NJ and I will be expecting to see what they want to do toward a full set of Pirelli Nero P-Zero M+S tires in a 245/45-17 size. Since the service bulletin requires bumper stop replacement, alignment and mounting _anyhow_, the 25% proration for new rubber means we're talking about $170 net cost to me. I'd consider that almost fair, not counting the hassle time spent ... but think they ought to eat the rest of it, if you count the aggravation factor.
We shouldn't even be talking about replacement tires for another year or two. There is plenty of evidence on this website that Acura has sporadically announced "fixes" and lots of FUD, but basically they've opted not to do what they should have -- fix the problem. And unfortunately, the problem was well-documented here at least 6 months before we bought the car, so we may just be looking at a possible "lemon law" application.
I'm researching this tire problem heavily. Today I found out that Nissan Maxima / Altima models come with Bridgestone EL42s, and they *also* say in the comments on tirerack.com that this tire sucks.
But -- get this -- on tirerack.com, Nissaners are reporting average tire life at close to 40,000 miles. If you scan ACURA owners, about 85% are opting to get rid of their Bridgestone Turanza EL42s before 20,000 miles.
HUGE difference.
Our '05 has 8 months and 15,000 miles, and we're almost to the wear bars. We did *not* expect to have an extra $100 a month in tire expense when we traded in our 04' TSX (which, with 25,000 miles, still had over half the tread on the OEMs).
This coming Monday morning I'm at Open Road Acura, Route 18 in East Brunswick, NJ and I will be expecting to see what they want to do toward a full set of Pirelli Nero P-Zero M+S tires in a 245/45-17 size. Since the service bulletin requires bumper stop replacement, alignment and mounting _anyhow_, the 25% proration for new rubber means we're talking about $170 net cost to me. I'd consider that almost fair, not counting the hassle time spent ... but think they ought to eat the rest of it, if you count the aggravation factor.
We shouldn't even be talking about replacement tires for another year or two. There is plenty of evidence on this website that Acura has sporadically announced "fixes" and lots of FUD, but basically they've opted not to do what they should have -- fix the problem. And unfortunately, the problem was well-documented here at least 6 months before we bought the car, so we may just be looking at a possible "lemon law" application.
01-05-2006, 08:22 PM
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Originally Posted by jginnane
This coming Monday morning I'm at Open Road Acura, Route 18 in East Brunswick, NJ and I will be expecting to see what they want to do toward a full set of Pirelli Nero P-Zero M+S tires in a 245/45-17 size. Since the service bulletin requires bumper stop replacement, alignment and mounting _anyhow_, the 25% proration for new rubber means we're talking about $170 net cost to me. I'd consider that almost fair, not counting the hassle time spent ... but think they ought to eat the rest of it, if you count the aggravation factor.
We shouldn't even be talking about replacement tires for another year or two. There is plenty of evidence on this website that Acura has sporadically announced "fixes" and lots of FUD, but basically they've opted not to do what they should have -- fix the problem. And unfortunately, the problem was well-documented here at least 6 months before we bought the car, so we may just be looking at a possible "lemon law" application.
We shouldn't even be talking about replacement tires for another year or two. There is plenty of evidence on this website that Acura has sporadically announced "fixes" and lots of FUD, but basically they've opted not to do what they should have -- fix the problem. And unfortunately, the problem was well-documented here at least 6 months before we bought the car, so we may just be looking at a possible "lemon law" application.
Let us know how this process goes. I am extremely concerned how this geometry problem affects TLs with 18" rims and A-Spec suspension. Since the TSB explicitly excludes any configuration other than factory suspension and stock 17" wheels/tires, it's as if they're saying that the problem won't exist with other configurations.
01-05-2006, 08:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Lore
Let us know how this process goes. I am extremely concerned how this geometry problem affects TLs with 18" rims and A-Spec suspension. Since the TSB explicitly excludes any configuration other than factory suspension and stock 17" wheels/tires, it's as if they're saying that the problem won't exist with other configurations.
I"ll document everything that comes out of the Monday review because with our recent driving experiences i no longer feel safe at road speeds