eaf

While doing alignment today the dealership said that the rear camber is at -2deg, and it's not adjustable. They've recommended to replace struts, but also mentioned the existence of aftermarket kits (that they wouldn't install).

What should I do? Struts, kits, ignore? The car's 2008, 150K.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

leave it alone, unless you want to replace the shocks..
the acceptable limit is -1.7, however, -2 wont do any harm.. as long as toe is zero'd out.

i'm running - 2 degrees in the rear..."natural camber" or whatever it's at when it's sat down from the lift, as there's no way to adjust it from the factory..
I have no EXCESSIVE tire wear because my toe is set to zero.

nfnsquared

SPC rear camber arms FTW!!!

wusty23jd

https://www.heeltoeauto.com/camber-k....67291-17.html

I believe Heeltoe has a pretty solid deal going right now on these!

Slpr04UA6

eaf

A dumb question... Actually two...

1) The site says that installing just one arm can cause suspension binding.
2) Once one or more arms from this set have been installed, who do you go for alignment to?? Who will know how to adjust these custom things properly? Or do you do it yourself from now on?

tpz76

The dealer will tell you anything to make a buck. Did they give you a print out of the actual measurements? Spec on 08 TL per Acura is -1.00' per side on the rear. Had mine aligned today and have -1.53' and -1.57' on the back. A bit over the limit, but I'm not worried about it. If it makes you feel better, go ahead and get the rear camber kit, but for a degree of difference, I wouldn't waste my time and money. As long as your toe front to back is set right. You should have no worries.

eaf

Well, I'm gonna update this thread... Changed rear struts over the summer to new OEMs like the dealer suggested, did 4-wheel alignment today again... Same stuff: -1.9deg in the rear.

So, it's was a BS. Replacing struts didn't do a thing to camber. Should've installed a camber kit instead.

Oh, and the reason I'm doing all of this is that no matter how close this -1.9deg may seem to an OK -1deg, I'm getting significant tire wear on the insides. In fact, had to change the last set of tires only two years since they'd been installed.

dopeboy1

But as justnspace told you over a year ago, its not really the camber that is destroying your tires.

Its the toe. Make sure the toe is 0 or very close.

thoiboi

pic of your alignment sheet?

eaf

thoiboi

Toe was way out on your right front which would have wreaked havoc on that wheel. Even after, it's still a bit out. My alignment guy loves to completely ZERO out the toe and I appreciate him for doing so.

BROlando

Proper diagnosis would have helped you.

This is what I'd expect from any place charging me dealer pricing for service.

1.) Why is there excessive camber on a non-camber adjustable rear suspension?

I can't believe a dealership jumped to the conclusion of "struts". Maybe your rear springs were sagging...but...did they actually measure ride height? And attribute it to the springs?


2.) If your toe is close to 0...why are you getting excess wear with only -2 deg camber on the REAR tyres?

The answer to both of the above would point to something in the suspension that is causing DYNAMIC wear. Meaning that something is allowing movement.

How do your bushings look? That would be what I would check, as a tech.

If your car is at stock ride height, I would never recommend an adjustable arm as a "fix". Its a bandaid or a patch or something easy to get you out of the shop.

A fix is fixing the actual issue.

If you do decide to hit the "easy" button and buy adjustable arms, buy a good quality UPPER arm (Hardrace). And adjust as little as possible (just inside of spec).

Don't buy the 12pc bucket of lower arms. You're virtually always going to have bump-steer issues unless you pay someone a lot of money to dial them out. And the TL has metal bearings in the rear toe arms...not rubber bushings. Again, you'll have bumpsteer issues with adjustable lower arms.

your case...I don't think adjustable arms will help.
I would try to find what is worn or loose.

Did they ask you questions like...

Do you frequently carry large loads in the trunk or back seat?

Is the car unstable on the highway or at normal speeds?

Does the car pull or wander?

Also...Is there cupping wear on the tyres? Or just smooth inside edge wear?

eaf

No, they didn't measure anything. Both times they said that aging suspension could cause the tire wear on the inside that and both times mentioned that there are these aftermarket kits (that they wouldn't install) that might help.

Well, why would an out of spec toe cause excess wear only on the insides? If the wheels are sideways, I'd imagine there would be wear all over the place, not just on the insides. And -2 degrees camber is out of spec, so what else to blame here?

To me they looked solid. No play at all.

Yeah, but what is the actual issue then?

Interestingly I was looking into the exact opposite due to some complaints on aftermarket ball joints. Thought, lower arms would be a safer bet. I'll reevaluate my options then.

Nah, they didn't. They just wanted to sell me new struts. But no, I don't often carry large loads in the trunk, the car is not unstable, it was pulling slightly to the right, but that was dependent on the lane and I guess general slope of the roadway (like it would pull to the right on local roads, but would go straight in the left lane of a highway), there is no cupping.

thoiboi

https://acurazine.com/forums/3g-tl-t...er-kit-606757/

Have a read through that thread

BROlando

Toe out wears tires on the inside edge. Of course camber helps this along. The two angles put together really accelerate wear.

BUT...toe out by itself will also cause inside edge wear.

-2 deg camber by itself will likely NOT.

So even if you fix the camber, if you still have some dynamic toe issue...you're left with the same issue to some lesser extent. Know what I mean?

But...I do understand that buying a camber arm is cheaper/easier than trying to find the root cause.

Aftermarket parts are junk. Almost all of them. In various aspects.

HOWEVER...
Hardrace does, admittedly make a good ball joint and bushing combo. So if you do have to go aftermarket, they're a good choice.

The problem with lower arm kits is that lengthening or shortening arms will alter the arc of the suspension travel. So...you'll have bump steer. There's tons of threads chronicling massive instability after using aftermarket adjustable lower control arms. I have also experienced this myself.

Unless you plan to use a bumpsteer gauge and set length...I wouldn't use LCAs

Slpr04UA6

^they make a gauge for bumpsteer? I didn’t know that. Interesting.

you don’t think the SPC upper arm has a good ball joint, or bushing? Or is that hardrace is better?

BROlando

HR's are quite nice. The joints on mine are still tight after like 20K miles. The quality of boots on HR stuff has always been above the rest.

SPC, Eibach, Moog, etc all look to be identical. I'm guessing they're all just re-brands of something one would find on Ali-Baba. So they are likely all identical. I think I've seen photos of prematurely worn SPC ball joint boots...and I've definitely seen this issue in person on a similar design.