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Just ordered a set of coilovers (Tein Flex Z) for my car, and have a few guides ready to help me when I do the install. The only question I have is, should there be anything else that I should replace while I'm down there anyway for a refresh? I've already done the compliance bushings. TIA!
^^^^Agreed. If anything, after the compliance bushings, my guess is the next thing to go would be a sway bar end link. Just give everything a good check while your working in those areas. (I assume you already know your motor and trans mounts are still good?)
Brolando - I believe I'll actually be using your write up for both the install and bushing clocks! Just wanted to see if I should replace any bolts while I'm down there, or if using them are OK.
Motor mounts and trans mounts are all done within the last year as well. I guess my worry now is just end links and maybe ball joints, which I'll probably inspect before taking apart everything. I'm currently at 125K miles and hoping to hit at least 200K.
set preload at 16mm front and 8mm rear, not 2mm and 1mm like tein suggests. i plan on posting a thread sometime on my "experiences/research" but haven't had time yet.
Brolando - I believe I'll actually be using your write up for both the install and bushing clocks! Just wanted to see if I should replace any bolts while I'm down there, or if using them are OK.
Motor mounts and trans mounts are all done within the last year as well. I guess my worry now is just end links and maybe ball joints, which I'll probably inspect before taking apart everything. I'm currently at 125K miles and hoping to hit at least 200K.
If you live where the roads are salty, maybe consider ordering some bolts and (worst case) control arms before starting work. I live in the midwest....so I usually check that the bolts all move before I commit to the install lol.
besides that...at 125K, maybe have a look at the compliance bushings and the sway bar links, as nfn mentioned above.
I usually use anti sieze on the bolt shafts and threads when re-installing.
Good luck with the install, bud!
Originally Posted by sockr1
set preload at 16mm front and 8mm rear, not 2mm and 1mm like tein suggests. i plan on posting a thread sometime on my "experiences/research" but haven't had time yet.
^^!! dude knows.
My prediction is that the crushing weight of a TL probably compresses the front (12K) springs by ~2.16" and the rear (6K) springs by ~1.92". I am assuming sprung weights and motion ratios (imagination spec).
Can't remember what sockr said the shock travel specs were. I'll let yall check it in his future thread.
My prediction is that the crushing weight of a TL probably compresses the front (12K) springs by ~2.16" and the rear (6K) springs by ~1.92". I am assuming sprung weights and motion ratios (imagination spec).
Can't remember what sockr said the shock travel specs were. I'll let yall check it in his future thread.
yea man i went into bump travel and droop travel and motion ratios...all those specs. just gotta find my notes somewhere but it should be a fun thread haha. maybe i'll shoot for that this week during my lunch breaks
yea man i went into bump travel and droop travel and motion ratios...all those specs. just gotta find my notes somewhere but it should be a fun thread haha. maybe i'll shoot for that this week during my lunch breaks
Cool!
Well, you can fairly directly derive a lot of useful info from just measuring the spring compression when the car is on the ground.
Spring original length - Spring length at static height = Spring compression
Spring compression × Spring rate = amount of force the corner of the car puts into the spring.
Obviously, you're still solving for 2 variables without knowing motion ratio including the Cosine of spring mounting angle factored in. But...ultimately, the most useful info is directly getting the amount of force the car puts into the springs.
I live in northern california, so salt isn't really a problem. If OEM endlinks are $18 a pop, I may as well change them out while i'm down there right? Compliance bushings done about 10k miles ago when I did both CV axles; my only regret is not going the PCI route but doing OEM instead. The other thing I'm just wondering about is whether or not I need some kind of camber kit. I read HT's post on whether or not I need one, and I don't really plan on any drastic drops. 1" at max (It ain't a civic yo!) Differing opinions between Ingalls and SPC, and not much info about TruHart. Not trying to go hellaflush at all, but at the same time I don't want to eat through tires either.
I'm guessing yes to camber arms. SPC has been rock solid for me.
What is your camber at right now? Stock suspension currently, I assume?
Another issue to be aware of: Lowering appears to put additional strain on the axles, but since your axles are brand new, you've probably got many, many miles before that will be an issue.
Last edited by nfnsquared; 07-31-2017 at 11:30 PM.
I gotta dig up the sheet to get it, but there hasn't been an issue with being out of spec. Currently still sitting on the stock suspension at 125k miles. I'm aware of the additional strain but as you said, they're brand new (raxles ftw!) The additional strain is also why if I do lower, I'd only go 1" max.
^^^ what I getting at is if you currently are right at or near the negative spec (-1.5), then lowering will almost certainly take it out of spec. Just food for thought.
Ahhh ok, got it. I just checked the spec which was done back around March, and while the toe was near 0, the L/R cambers were roughly -1.3 and -1.7. I'll definitely be going the SPC route as well, just hoping that the ones I get from Amazon have the updated boot so I don't have to spend another hour getting the OEM boots on.
On the TL application, does the SPC upper camber arm come with the correct nut that has the same size flange as OEM? Or is the SPC hardware death wish spec like the TSX hardrace camber kit hardware?
IIRC, that attachment loop on the TL is much smaller than the TSX. But the nut that comes with the SPC arms isn't deep/tall enough to catch the cotter pin. The old nuts work fine. Neither set of nuts has the huge flange like is on the TSX nuts.
Just received the SPC camber kit today; would've gone with Heeltoe but Amazon's shipping takes forever. Was a little worried that the kit didn't have updated boots because the photo for the item shows a flat bushing, but the actual received product does indeed have the black accordion boots. Quick question though; do I need to use threadlocker or loctite on this stuff when I install? Or tell the alignment guys to put on threadlocker?
Just received the SPC camber kit today; would've gone with Heeltoe but Amazon's shipping takes forever. Was a little worried that the kit didn't have updated boots because the photo for the item shows a flat bushing, but the actual received product does indeed have the black accordion boots. Quick question though; do I need to use threadlocker or loctite on this stuff when I install? Or tell the alignment guys to put on threadlocker?
no i don't think you need that. but make sure you install it with the oem castle nut and NOT the SPC nut. otherwise you'll have some bad issues
no i don't think you need that. but make sure you install it with the oem castle nut and NOT the SPC nut. otherwise you'll have some bad issues
Unless SPC has changed nuts, the nut that comes with the camber arm is not deep enough to go over the cotter pin hole, so you can't lock the SPC nut with the cotter pin. The OEM nuts work fine, just save them.
And no, don't use thread locker or anti-seize on the attachment bolts. And I wouldn't (and didn't) use thread locker or anti-seize on the adjustment threads either.
I do shoot the adjustment threads with PB before I head to the alignment shop.
I anti siezed the adjustment nuts/turnbuckles. And I anti siezed the chassis/subframe attachment bolts.
We don't f#&k around in this place. Its a nice place.
Those bolts are fairly low torque. You wont hurt them with anti sieze. But only use it if you need to (road salt exposure). OP doesn't have that issue.
OK quick update; got the fronts installed. The passenger side was fairly simple, but I had to open up the endlink on the driver's side to be able to remove the fork. BROlando: I swear your guide is VERY helpful, but it took me a while to figure out that I should unbolt the front shocks AFTER the fork is removed. Just a tip
I haven't really been able to figure out how to do the preload though, or even how to adjust to what was recommended (16/8)
I was using a dial caliper to try and get to measurement A, but The height adjustment (bottom part) would only go so far up before it ran out of threads to travel. Does that mean to bring it down closer I should be compressing the even more? And how would the recommended pre-load by you guys be achieved? Apologies but there's quite a bit of numbers and 16/8mm doesn't even seem that much distance to change...
so the front flex spring is 200mm if i remember correctly and the rear is 250mm uncompressed. that is spring length. preload is how much the spring is compressed
so you tighten the collars down until the spring length is 200-16 = 184 on the front and 250-8 = 242 on the rear. tein gives them to you with 198 and 249 respectively which is WAY too low. at those specs you have very very little bump travel and lots of droop travel. meaning your ride has lots of "up" travel on bumps but very little travel down, resulting in a very floaty ride followed by a very rough/hard/jolting landing. it's not ideal.
i experimented and researched how to dial it in to get the preload that i think makes the most difference. my results were night and day
the rear dictates comfort and you don't need a ton of preload like the front. if 8mm is too harsh in the rear loosen it up to like 5 or so.
^Until you get to the point where the suspension "tops out" on bumps, adding preload will typically add ride comfort.
8mm of preload should ride softer than 5mm, for this example.
OP, counting the thread collars from top to bottom:
1 touches the spring.
2 locks down #1.
3 locks/touches the bottom bracket.
To adjust preload, first assemble the coilover.
Then turn #1 upward (crush the spring) to add preload. Or downward (let the spring expand) to reduce preload.
Then lock it with #2 when you have it where you want it.
Always Always Always adjust your initial preload whilst the suspension is NOT installed on the car yet.
Write it down.
You can re-adjust it later.
I believe that a 360 degree turn of Tein's collar will adjust 2mm. Its a 2mm thread pitch (IIRC).
The hard part is holding the stupid shock in place whilst setting preload. I made a rig that fits S2000, 88-01 integra/civic, TSX, and Accord shocks. Haven't tried TL tophats in there yet.
There are so many coilover installs at my house :'(
^Until you get to the point where the suspension "tops out" on bumps, adding preload will typically add ride comfort.
8mm of preload should ride softer than 5mm, for this example.
OP, counting the thread collars from top to bottom:
1 touches the spring.
2 locks down #1.
3 locks/touches the bottom bracket.
To adjust preload, first assemble the coilover.
Then turn #1 upward (crush the spring) to add preload. Or downward (let the spring expand) to reduce preload.
Then lock it with #2 when you have it where you want it.
Always Always Always adjust your initial preload whilst the suspension is NOT installed on the car yet.
Write it down.
You can re-adjust it later.
I believe that a 360 degree turn of Tein's collar will adjust 2mm. Its a 2mm thread pitch (IIRC).
you always write it so much better than i do haha.
and you changed your name you sneaky devil
Damn. I already installed the coilovers with sort of what I thought was pre-load (but obviously not). Main reason being because I couldn't really adjust the spring as the whole thing kept rotating when I tried to adjust. I have the Flex Z so I don't have to assemble anything... Can I still adjust to pre-load spec with the coilovers on the car? I figure it's not ideal but I don't want to uninstall, set, and reinstall again mainly because of the LCA bolt being a PITA to hammer out.
Damn. I already installed the coilovers with sort of what I thought was pre-load (but obviously not). Main reason being because I couldn't really adjust the spring as the whole thing kept rotating when I tried to adjust. I have the Flex Z so I don't have to assemble anything... Can I still adjust to pre-load spec with the coilovers on the car? I figure it's not ideal but I don't want to uninstall, set, and reinstall again mainly because of the LCA bolt being a PITA to hammer out.
Damn. I already installed the coilovers with sort of what I thought was pre-load (but obviously not). Main reason being because I couldn't really adjust the spring as the whole thing kept rotating when I tried to adjust. I have the Flex Z so I don't have to assemble anything... Can I still adjust to pre-load spec with the coilovers on the car? I figure it's not ideal but I don't want to uninstall, set, and reinstall again mainly because of the LCA bolt being a PITA to hammer out.
The LCA bolts shouldn't be that difficult to remove. Remove the 14mm shock fork pinch bolt first. Then put some body weight on the rotor to push the assembly down and just pull the lower (17mm head) bolt out.
For the front, you can get full extension of the shock if you just remove the shock fork from the shock and put it aside.
For the back....there's really no good way except to remove the whole dang shock
How much preload did you use? If if was an arbitrary or uneven amount per side...I would strongly recommend removing everything and starting over.
My instructions were specific to the SA...which isn't full body adjustable. I wouldn't collapse the Flex's spring fully down like I did, in order to clock bushings
For full body coil installs, you'll have to clock bushings the old fashioned way.
Honestly, I don't think I was even able to adjust the preload from the factory since the whole thing kept moving. The only thing I "adjusted" was the bottom, which adjusts the height.
As for the lower bolt...I think it was hard just because of the tension on the fork. Had to balance between jacking up the LCA and making sure it didn't go up TOO much
Well...maybe Sockr can confirm if Tein presets their preload to 2mm and 1mm?
If they do, and you didn't move it....its easy. You can re-set the preload on the car, which is much easier because you're not trying to hold the stupid shock still.
First, check that your tophat center nut is tight. Trust me.
Mark a dot on perch 1 using a marker.
Get the spanner wrenches.
Hold perch 1.
Turn perch 2 clockwise to un-jam it .
Make sure perch 3 is tight.
Turn perch 1 counter clockwise to add preload (clockwise to remove preload).
Remember that each 360 degree turn is 2mm. So every time your marker dot comes around, you're adjusting the spring 2mm up (or down).
Sockr recommended 16mm front preload. So lets use that for this example. That's 7 turns counter clockwise (It would have been 8....but Tein already put 2mm preload in).
Then lock down perch 1 and perch 2. Tight.
Preload is set.
Now to re-adjust ride height to compensate for raising the spring to add preload.
Loosen perch 3.
Using perch 1, turn the whole shock body clockwise. 8 turns (16mm). Use the marker dot.
[to remove preload, use perch 2 to turn the whole shock body counter clockwise]
Lock down perch 3.
Repeat with respective numbers on all 4 corners.
We used 16mm for the example...but the principle applies for any desired value.
Imagine the shock body as a screw. The bottom bracket is a nut.
perch 1 and 2 are jam nuts to turn the screw in or out.
Quick update: preload is set, and I believe the height is "decent"...sliiiightly too low for my liking but I'm currently sitting at 13" between middle of center cap and the top of the wheel well.
Anyway, today (sunday) tried to do an alignment using my "lifetime wheel alignment" from Wheel Works. Dropped off the car, waited for 3 hours, they call me to tell me it's ready. I go and pick it up, turns out they didn't do the alignment because it's not using OEM components or something like that and because actual camber adjustment would take a while, they would have to charge me extra. Why they failed to mention this on the phone, I don't know, but that's just a loss of business. I decided to just leave as they said they weren't even sure if they had time to do the alignment today, and I have another Wheel Works near my work. Called them, they said they couldn't guarantee they wouldn't charge me, but if they don't need extra parts then there shouldn't be any charge (after me explaining the whole situation to them). The only thing that caught them off guard was when I told them my rear cambers were -4.1 and -2.7 L/R, but he said he'd try to get it to around -1, which I think is what factory spec is right? Anyway, fingers crossed for tomorrow!
Spec for rear camber is -0.5 to -1.5. You have the SPC arms installed? What you should've/could've done was to compare your SPC arms to the stock arms and then made the SPC arms about 1/4" longer before installing them (maybe even 3/8" longer for the left one). That would have given you less negative camber than what you had with the stock arms and would suffice until you can get to an alignment shop.
And total BS about charging extra for an alignment due to non-OEM parts...
07-30-2017, 03:01 AM
