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It's been a while since I've been on the forums, brother moved out of state so I have taken over his car as a daily driver. The prior suspension setup was getting bad so I swapped in for a new set of Tein coilovers.
I can't help but feel that the suspension has a very "bouncy" ride. I got it installed at a shop so I am not sure what stiffness setting it was placed on. Would putting it on the softest setting reduce some of the "bounce" or is that just how the suspension is. Trying to make it ride as comfortable as possible as a daily.
They likely set the coilovers to teins recommendation which is on the soft side. It being soft is what can make it bouncy. You need to set them to stiffer not softer.
They likely set the coilovers to teins recommendation which is on the soft side. It being soft is what can make it bouncy. You need to set them to stiffer not softer.
Any recommendations on how many clicks I should set it to?
Often the front is set to a bit stiffer than the back because a large portion of the cars weight (the engine) is in the front. You just have to play with the stiffness until you get it to where you like it.
My tein sa's are still set to teins reccomendation which is indeed soft and sort of a bit bouncy. Im waiting until i get the TEIN EDFC controller to try to dial in the stiffness a bit.
What do you mean by first turning up the front, then the rear? Is it not necessary to have the front and rear at the same stiffness?
no, not necessary at all! that's how you can manipulate the car to do what you ask it to do.
for example; if wanting to increase oversteer, you ramp up the rear stiffer than the front. If wanting more understeer, the front's will be stiffer than the rear.
For comfort; you choose how bumpy/stiff/bouncy you want it.
you want left and right to be the same, tho. Front left and right HAS to be the same. Rear Left and right HAVE to be the same.
it's a process that you'll have to experiment with to get your comfort levels down.
When I bought my coilovers, I was all into it being fucking stiff, until my passengers were like...FUCK THIS JUSTIN, your car sucks.
I softened it down, to where passengers have an enjoyable ride, while still providing me with the cool "oversteer" feeling that I like. which the rears are a tiny bit stiffer than the fronts.
Last edited by justnspace; 02-09-2018 at 01:19 PM.
Thanks for this info. I'm going to be installing some SA's in the near future and was also wondering about what specs other members were running
NP. Everyone is different.
I can't stand how they float around with the factory recommended settings.
The downside to twin tube shocks is that they are a little lazy. Tein especially, for some reason.
So setting them closer to stiff makes the ride more universally "comfortable" because you're getting them to react faster. You've gone TOO stiff when the high speed damping (over sharp bumps) is too harsh and the car starts to rattle over cracks in the road.
0 is full stiff. -16 is full soft.
I found that -4 or -5 up front and -5 to -6 in back was the "sweet spot".
I usually use 1 click softer for winter driving because the shock oil thickens and the valve doesn't need to be set as stiff to get the same effect.
Setting them softer makes them ride worse because you're constantly floating around with no sense of stability.
I've said this in other threads...trampolines are soft....but they're not comfortable.
I would set them to Tein's settings first.
Then take a drive on a road with varying types of road irregularities. Dips, bumps, cracks, humps, train tracks, etc.
Then set them to full stiff.
Go on the same drive. It will kinda suck. You'll see that they're pretty over-damped.
Go one click back.
Go on the same drive.
Go one click back.
Go on the same drive.
repeat till you have what feels good.
It will take a little bit, but you'll get it set right.
You do absolutely need to "reset" the valve every time you re-adjust it, BTW. ALWAYS turn to full stiff first, and then count backward.
For example...wanna go from 6 to 7? Click to full stiff first. Then count back 7 clicks.
I can't stand how they float around with the factory recommended settings.
The downside to twin tube shocks is that they are a little lazy. Tein especially, for some reason.
So setting them closer to stiff makes the ride more universally "comfortable" because you're getting them to react faster. You've gone TOO stiff when the high speed damping (over sharp bumps) is too harsh and the car starts to rattle over cracks in the road.
0 is full stiff. -16 is full soft.
I found that -4 or -5 up front and -5 to -6 in back was the "sweet spot".
I usually use 1 click softer for winter driving because the shock oil thickens and the valve doesn't need to be set as stiff to get the same effect.
Setting them softer makes them ride worse because you're constantly floating around with no sense of stability.
I've said this in other threads...trampolines are soft....but they're not comfortable.
I would set them to Tein's settings first.
Then take a drive on a road with varying types of road irregularities. Dips, bumps, cracks, humps, train tracks, etc.
Then set them to full stiff.
Go on the same drive. It will kinda suck. You'll see that they're pretty over-damped.
Go one click back.
Go on the same drive.
Go one click back.
Go on the same drive.
repeat till you have what feels good.
It will take a little bit, but you'll get it set right.
You do absolutely need to "reset" the valve every time you re-adjust it, BTW. ALWAYS turn to full stiff first, and then count backward.
For example...wanna go from 6 to 7? Click to full stiff first. Then count back 7 clicks.
Thanks for the input! I took this past weekend to adjust my suspension and it is feeling a lot better than before. Can't help but feel I still want a smoother ride, in hindsight maybe I should have just gone back to a stock suspension setup... Bumps and dips are not as "bouncy" as before, but some bumps in the road are felt more than I'd like. At this point, I'm thinking it could be partially due to the tires I have on (Cooper RS3-A).
What type of bumps? Gentle dips or harsh crack type bumps?
Has the car been aligned for toe?
Also, do you have a photo of how much you lowered it?
I ended up going -14 all around. Not planning to drive the car hard at all, just using it as a commuter car and want it as comfortable as possible. Dips on the highway or local streets feel fine for the most part, but bumps/cracks give the car a jiggle that I can feel. Not sure if this is just the best the suspension can do, since I am comparing the ride quality to my BMW 228i, which has been my daily for the past 3 years. Jumping back to the TL now.
Yes, the car was aligned right after the suspension install. I'll attach a photo later, but the car was only lowered <1.4 inches.
I ended up going -14 all around. Not planning to drive the car hard at all, just using it as a commuter car and want it as comfortable as possible. Dips on the highway or local streets feel fine for the most part, but bumps/cracks give the car a jiggle that I can feel. Not sure if this is just the best the suspension can do, since I am comparing the ride quality to my BMW 228i, which has been my daily for the past 3 years. Jumping back to the TL now.
Yes, the car was aligned right after the suspension install. I'll attach a photo later, but the car was only lowered <1.4 inches.
Well...wowza. At -14, I'm not surprised about the ride not being so good.
At -14, I (me) would describe it as "the worst thing that's ever happened".
There's no damping at all down there. I'm kinda bewildered that you went that low on the clicker lol.
Did you try any of the stiffer settings? Where did you start out? At about -4 or -5, it should start to feel like your stock BMW suspension. Much more comfortable.
-14 would be unbearable for me. The springs are just doing what they want....there's probably less damping than the stock shocks. Imagine using a 12K front spring on a stock shock, if you will. It wouldn't be comfortable, right?
Further tips for success:
Don't set the front dampers at a way higher setting than the rears. 12K/5K is the SPRING rate...but because of the TL's staggered motion ratios, the front and back of the car have the same effective spring rate (wheel rate) as each other. Even if we look past motion ratios, since the back is much lighter, a 280LB (5K) spring has a lot more effect also.
So...run the front/rear damper setting close to one another. Don't be lazy about the seats and just crank the front dampers.
Also..."soft" and "stiff" are really only accurate terms for SPRINGS...not dampers.
Think of damper settings as dialing MORE or LESS damping. More damping will control the spring MORE.
When you turn the dial, you are *mostly* effecting how difficult it will be to EXPAND the shock at some given velocity. This is called rebound damping.
Compression damping (how much the shock will damp compressions) is only very slightly affected by turning the dial. Sometimes, like on a Koni, compression damping is not affected at all by the dial.
With too little damping (too "soft" of a damper setting), the spring will expand WAY too fast and with too much unchecked force.
Lets say you hit a bump...spring compresses.
Then it wants to explode outward with all that stored energy. If you have MORE damping ("stiffer" shock setting), you will slow down the spring expansion and absorb the force of the spring using the damper.
If you had too little (too "soft") damping, the spring will shoot the car upward and then it will take a few expansion/compression cycles to finally bring the spring in check. Bounce, float float, bounce. Good rap chorus. Terrible for ride quality though.
Its true that too much damping is bad for ride quality. So use as much as you need. Don't "stiffen" the shock too much.
Too little damping is often even worse. You'll be getting floated and bobbled constantly as the springs toss the chassis around.
Further tips for success:
Don't set the front dampers at a way higher setting than the rears. 12K/5K is the SPRING rate...but because of the TL's staggered motion ratios, the front and back of the car have the same effective spring rate (wheel rate) as each other. Even if we look past motion ratios, since the back is much lighter, a 280LB (5K) spring has a lot more effect also.
So...run the front/rear damper setting close to one another. Don't be lazy about the seats and just crank the front dampers.
Also..."soft" and "stiff" are really only accurate terms for SPRINGS...not dampers.
Think of damper settings as dialing MORE or LESS damping. More damping will control the spring MORE.
When you turn the dial, you are *mostly* effecting how difficult it will be to EXPAND the shock at some given velocity. This is called rebound damping.
Compression damping (how much the shock will damp compressions) is only very slightly affected by turning the dial. Sometimes, like on a Koni, compression damping is not affected at all by the dial.
With too little damping (too "soft" of a damper setting), the spring will expand WAY too fast and with too much unchecked force.
Lets say you hit a bump...spring compresses.
Then it wants to explode outward with all that stored energy. If you have MORE damping ("stiffer" shock setting), you will slow down the spring expansion and absorb the force of the spring using the damper.
If you had too little (too "soft") damping, the spring will shoot the car upward and then it will take a few expansion/compression cycles to finally bring the spring in check. Bounce, float float, bounce. Good rap chorus. Terrible for ride quality though.
Its true that too much damping is bad for ride quality. So use as much as you need. Don't "stiffen" the shock too much.
Too little damping is often even worse. You'll be getting floated and bobbled constantly as the springs toss the chassis around.
Thanks for the write up! Makes much more sense now. I'm gonna take some time this weekend again and make some adjustments and see if I like it at a stiffer setting.
Well...wowza. At -14, I'm not surprised about the ride not being so good.
At -14, I (me) would describe it as "the worst thing that's ever happened".
There's no damping at all down there. I'm kinda bewildered that you went that low on the clicker lol.
Did you try any of the stiffer settings? Where did you start out? At about -4 or -5, it should start to feel like your stock BMW suspension. Much more comfortable.
-14 would be unbearable for me. The springs are just doing what they want....there's probably less damping than the stock shocks. Imagine using a 12K front spring on a stock shock, if you will. It wouldn't be comfortable, right?
When I made the adjustments, I found that the shop did -8 in front and -10 in the rear. However, the left rear suspension may not have been set correctly because it was set PAST the 16 clicks. This may have been why I hated the ride before?
When I made my adjustments I tried it at -8/-8 and -16/-16. I was quite lazy about it to be honest and didn't take as extensive of a drive as I should have.
I've installed and used quite a few versions of Tein coilovers.
One thing I noted about all their non-MSV (twin tube) shocks is that the lower settings are utterly useless haha.
The settings from 0 to -6 are really all you need/want. After that, the taps on the valves are open so far that the springs are almost un-damped. If the shocks had more low speed valving, the "softer" settings wouldn't be useless...but, looking at a shock dyno graph for SA's...its obvious that nothing "softer" than -6 is worth using.
Without being overly analytical or nerdy about a $600 coilover....
Once dialed in, the Street Advance is more comfortable than stock, with better overall ride dynamic and body control as well. They seem to work well when they are set fairly tall, and have the damper valve setting closer to "stiff" (between -2 and -6, as I've mentioned).
It's been a while since I've been on the forums, brother moved out of state so I have taken over his car as a daily driver. The prior suspension setup was getting bad so I swapped in for a new set of Tein coilovers.
I can't help but feel that the suspension has a very "bouncy" ride. I got it installed at a shop so I am not sure what stiffness setting it was placed on. Would putting it on the softest setting reduce some of the "bounce" or is that just how the suspension is. Trying to make it ride as comfortable as possible as a daily.
Throw these "coilovers" on the blackmarket and go back to OEM.
A TL-S uses spring rates that are under F:5k and R:3k for reference. Once you start increasing the spring rates you increase your wheel frequency and see a decrease in "favorable ride qualities"
Throw these "coilovers" on the blackmarket and go back to OEM.
A TL-S uses spring rates that are under F:5k and R:3k for reference. Once you start increasing the spring rates you increase your wheel frequency and see a decrease in "favorable ride qualities"
Does the TL use constantly (or almost constantly) engaged bumpstops, similar to the Accord/TSX?
Are stock TL springs really THAT soft? I believe stock TSX springs are 5K/3K.
Anyway...soft springs + bumpstops + very linear shock profiles mean that the factory ride quality in a TL isn't all that universally comfortable either.
From actual experience and personal ownership, SA's can be made to ride better than stock.
Lots of street coilovers can do the same. Its just a matter of setting them up advantageously.
***I do agree that 12K/6K is pretty dang aggressive on this car, with very lazy twin tube shocks. Probably needlessly aggressive lol. Tein sometimes does very dumb shit for frustrating reasons.
But...spend some time, and they can be made to ride well.
Anyway...soft springs + bumpstops + very linear shock profiles mean that the factory ride quality in a TL isn't all that universally comfortable either.
From actual experience and personal ownership, SA's can be made to ride better than stock.
Lots of street coilovers can do the same. Its just a matter of setting them up advantageously.
Yes they are that low, another member shared his data with me on spring rates he measured. Not my data so I don't want to go into detail.
The TL rides superbly from the factory in a straight line, that's my take on it. For having fun, not so much.
I have A-spec suspension and it's great! It's firm but not crazy, it's much more planted over the base TL coilover. A big improvement when doing winter auto x and ice rally x, car was very neutral.
I don't know what the motion ratios are for the TL but my Integra is around 1.5F and 1.3R.
***I do agree that 12K/6K is pretty dang aggressive on this car, with very lazy twin tube shocks. Probably needlessly aggressive lol. Tein sometimes does very dumb shit for frustrating reasons.
But...spend some time, and they can be made to ride well.
It's obscene to have 12k and 6k on a street car, it's like they are purposely making it so stiff to cover the range of drop a coilover can achieve.
I would say find out what ID and spring length Tein is using and swap out the springs for a lower rate hyperco springs.
Tein uses 70mm springs, usually. It will say in thr user manual. 70mm springs are pricey and rare.
I converted my Flex to 65mm springs and went from 12/7 to 7/5. Massively better.
Street cars should have soft springs and dampers with a lot of low speed force.
But...a TL is bigger and heavier than a TSX. The 12K springs didn't feel ridiculous to me at the heavier damper settings
70mm springs are not hard to find. Swift springs will sells 60mm 65mm and 70mm ID springs, ~ $75 a spring.
You can run higher spring rates with set of good dampers, which I don't think Tein are. When it comes time to replace the A-spec dampers on the TL I am going to koni's.
Tein has a 16 way adjustable damper, they don't say what you are adjusting, is it just compression/rebound or both?
70mm springs are not hard to find. Swift springs will sells 60mm 65mm and 70mm ID springs, ~ $75 a spring.
You can run higher spring rates with set of good dampers, which I don't think Tein are. When it comes time to replace the A-spec dampers on the TL I am going to koni's.
Tein has a 16 way adjustable damper, they don't say what you are adjusting, is it just compression/rebound or both?
Yep...swift and Tein and whomever supplies springs for Bilstein makes a 70mm spring. I believe they are all metric. Swifts are usually $84/ea or so.
But EEEVERYONE in the world makes 65mm or 2.5" springs. In standard units. Massive resolution in spring rate. 65mm conversion parts are like $25 - 35. I prefer Eibach for availablity and quality. They run like $50-60/ea.
So the conversion parts + 65mm springs are ~the same $$ as the 70mm by themselves. But afterward, the world is your oyster. 65mm springs are everywhere.
Tein makes a good overall product. They are overly ambitious with their spring rates sometimes. The problem with their twin tube systems is that they lack force at the slow piston speeds...but the damping suddenly ramps up for higher piston speeds. Makes it hard to pick a setting.
You're right that Koni makes a better damper. Their downfall is that their paint finish is straight from the garbage. Not a big deal, I suppose.
You're also right that, unfortunately, Tein is trying to stretch their marketing prowess more than being sensible. But...the market calls for a $600 coilover that can allow you to drag the car's testicles on the ground. If the SA didn't go low enough, you'd have MASSIVE complaints. So...they use crazy tactics like 12/6 spring rates. At times, KW kinda does the same thing, though.....
They adjust rebound and compression together, similar to most pre-sprung coilovers. MOSTLY rebound is what's affected.
They used to send out damper dynos with each product not too long ago. Unfortunately, they no longer do this.
In my experience, their monotubes are a lot nicer. They admit (in a very marketing savvy way) that their twin tubes have issues with low speed damping on "soft" settings. Their monotubes with MSV's fix this issue. Again...from my own experience, their monotubes are very nice.
Not quite Ohlins/Bilstein nice. But...also not quite Ohlins/Bilstein price lol.
Reviving this thread because I can't seem to dial in these coilovers to where I expect/want them to be at. The main issue that bothers me is that when going over dips and bumps on the highway, the car seems to bounce up and down quite harshly. When researching on the forum, I do see advice on changing the "preload" but am not quite sure what that means. I had the shop drop it only about 1.2" when it was installed.
I am considering buying OEM assemblies and going back to stock (either base or Type-S), but since I have these coilovers on already I want to see if anyone can chime in with advice. I definitely prioritize highway comfort over handling because this will become my daily driver, but can't get over how jarring it is going over dips.
I also installed these coilovers recently on my type-s. Of course the shop I got them installed at didn't listen to me and had them basically set to full soft all the way around. Those settings had my car bouncing up and down on dips, basically what your car would do with blown shocks.
I spoke to Sockr1 and he suggested I go 8 upfront and 10 rear. After some experimenting, I stuck with those settings and haven't adjusted them yet. The car feels planted, handles better and the ride is about stockish feel. You do feel bumps but it's nothing crazy where your going to be afraid of hitting pot holes because of the impact.
You are complaining about the bouncing but you did not mention what stiffness you have set it to.
Since you started this thread I did get the EDFC. After experimenting I now drive around with 2 upfront and 4 at the back. Yes its pretty stiff but that's how I like it.... handles and corners like a mofo. Yet when going over dips on the highway I notice it does still bounce a little bit.
as i told MyGuti, go to your coilovers and check what stiffness they were set at by the shop. i never trust shops, no matter how good, to set up my settings on things like that. you must go full stiff and then turn backwards to correctly set the stiffness. if they go full soft the wrong way and then count back, you could severely mess up the coilovers.
until you check for yourself, you won't know what setting they are on and something simple like that could solve your problem. do not touch the preload if you aren't familiar with it. try the easier solutions first.
i always recommend 6 from stiff in front, 8 from stiff in rear as a starting point
when i had tein flex coilovers, i ran 2 in front and 4 in rear since tein are known to be on the "soft" side
Reviving this thread because I can't seem to dial in these coilovers to where I expect/want them to be at. The main issue that bothers me is that when going over dips and bumps on the highway, the car seems to bounce up and down quite harshly. When researching on the forum, I do see advice on changing the "preload" but am not quite sure what that means. I had the shop drop it only about 1.2" when it was installed.
I am considering buying OEM assemblies and going back to stock (either base or Type-S), but since I have these coilovers on already I want to see if anyone can chime in with advice. I definitely prioritize highway comfort over handling because this will become my daily driver, but can't get over how jarring it is going over dips.
You have Street ADVANCE? or Flex?
Advance shouldn't be harsh. Flex will be...unless you change quite a few things.
Advance doesn't have seperate preload/height setting. To increase preload, you will also increase height...and vice versa.
As others have said, what damper settings are you using? Tein's recommendations don't work for human beings, as far as I've seen.
02-08-2018, 12:12 PM
