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LOL...yes, you have a legit reason...285 on a 8" would look goofy...
Haha, yeah, I'm totally wishing on the 285. Now that I have corrected my rear negative camber, a 285 won't be possible. But a 255/35 will be just the ticket for 8.5's!
While in far from a wheel/tire expert (as many here appear to have much more knowledge than I do), I'll say this- I personally installed those Sumitomos on an Accord this summer (yes, I mounted and balanced them) and drove the car for ~15-20mi and found the ride quality to be excellent, road noise was hardly an issue and the price was extremely competitive.
I paid $98/tire for the 245/40's. I currently have Nankang NS20's on there now which I think are also excellent tires for the application (and cost). I took a chance on those and am very happy with them.
I'm glad you guys have had better luck with Sumi. I think they are crap. After running two sets of Sumi's I was done after mediocre handling in wet/dry (Florida rain), premature wear and road noise.
J- I like the 8.5's because you can run a bigger tire and because of the "exclusive" gun metal color that was only offered in '04.
Yeah, I feel you...I'm trying to be nice since I have the 8.5...these aren't bad though, for the look and for only 4 hundy. In the wheel world...that's basically free.
oh I totally agree...if I didn't have the 8.5's already I would have jumped on these too. It was a fantastic deal. Imaginary rep points (system we used to have on AZ) to the OP.
Comparing the differences in the OEM 17" wheel/tires to 18", I see that the 255/40/R18 or 255/35/R18 tires are suggested to fit "rims" with a width range of 7.5" - 9.5".
If this site is relied upon, found link in another thread, where I'm pretty sure a mod provided the link, what's the debate on these two tire sizes on the ability to perform better (winter/snow aside).
Speedometer:
255/35 --> 1.3% Slower (60mph on odometer is more than actual)
255/40 --> 2.7% Faster (60mph on odometer is less than actual)
Revolutions per Mile (correlating ratio of same height differences):
255/35 --> More +11.2
255/40 --> Less -20.5
So, performance wise, which would better aid a very spirited driver.
I'm leaning towards dedicating a set of max performance tires, please don't suggest a tire, just an analysis of the differences above. I've pretty much already decided on a Summer tire, and will likely go with XL just as I did for my 17" Pirelli tires, because I prefer a stiffer sidewall and the benefits I feel that come with them.
I really think you guys are overestimating the opinionated negative aspects of tire diameter or overall height, so long as they're all the same diameter.
EDIT - I've looked into the 255 debate on 17" wheels, and the originator of that wasn't really after performance and others as well seemed to go that route due to looks and/or supposed rim protection.
Comparable pics from the link above are below:
255/35:
255/40:
Last edited by MonkeyTrucker; 01-21-2016 at 02:26 PM.
- I personally installed those Sumitomos on an Accord this summer (yes, I mounted and balanced them) and drove the car for ~15-20mi and found the ride quality to be excellent, road noise was hardly an issue and the price was extremely competitive.
Certainly, depending on the tire size, the load rating changes, some are SL (standard load), some are a load range of only 91 etc., and the Accord from the factory has a much softer suspension than the TL, at least the Accords I've driven.
Originally Posted by MonkeyTrucker
Comparing the differences in the OEM 17" wheel/tires to 18", I see that the 255/40/R18 or 255/35/R18 tires are suggested to fit "rims" with a width range of 7.5" - 9.5".
Sorry, place those charts in the garbage as I certainly wouldn't rely on those calculations. Look at the manufacturer specifications for specfic recommendation. Geez, the Sumitomo 245/40-18 requires a 8" minimum wheel width ans the 255/35 and 255/40 is 8.5" minimum.
Easiest method is to go to TireRack and get the information.
I'm leaning on 255/40 for being slightly taller overall and under the magic 3% to OEM ratio.
It will:
-- fill out the wheel wells a little bit and close more of the gap on an A-Spec suspension (06 AT on MT 08W60-SEP-201B).
-- slightly beefier sidewall, closer to the 17".
-- less revs
-- either should really provide better handling and breaking than the current 235/45R17 I have.
Speedo diff is kinda moot imo:
255/40 @140mph odometer = actual ≈ 138.18mph
255/35 @140mph odometer = actual ≈ 143.64mph
Neither are marginal differences or detrimental imo, even with the 2.7% edging closer to the 3% opinion.
*Note the above speeds are noted to further denote the perceived extremes.
I'm glad you guys have had better luck with Sumi. I think they are crap. After running two sets of Sumi's I was done after mediocre handling in wet/dry (Florida rain), premature wear and road noise.
Forgive me for saying so, but most guys simply don't know any better. I've had the HTRZ and the HTRZII in the past, and they are great performing tires for the price, but they certainly aren't great tires, and it's the only tire that Sumitomo has that's worth anything IMO.
Originally Posted by MonkeyTrucker
I see that the 255/40/R18 or 255/35/R18 tires are suggested to fit "rims" with a width range of 7.5" - 9.5".
They'll fit, of course, I've seen guys with 225's on a 10" wheel too, but it's obviously pretty far from optimal. In this case, on an 8" wheel, a 225/235/245 will be more optimal (depending on what you want from the tire). The 235 will fit the most square on the wheel.
Originally Posted by MonkeyTrucker
what's the debate on these two tire sizes on the ability to perform better?
That simply depends on your personal idea of performance. The skinnier tire will have better turn-in, the shorter tire will have a harder sidewall, the wider tire will have better lateral grip, the taller tire will have better comfort, the lighter tire will have... It goes on and on. It's up to each individual person to figure out what performance characteristics are important to them.
Originally Posted by MonkeyTrucker
So, performance wise, which would better aid a very spirited driver.
It depends on your definition of "spirited". I tend to think of spirited driving as corner carving, and therefore the shorter, smaller, and lighter tire will feel better in that regard, but it may depend on the weight of the car, and other factors. Also, there is sometimes a marked difference between how a tire feels compared to its ultimate limits. Some tires are simply easier to work with because their limits are lower, which usually translates to a feel that's more fun.
Originally Posted by MonkeyTrucker
I'm leaning towards dedicating a set of max performance tires, please don't suggest a tire, just an analysis of the differences above.
I find that if you can buy a tire that was made for a specific car/reason, you can get more bang for your buck. For example, the Bridgestone RE070 that was made for the old STi, or the Yokohama A048 LTS that was made for the Lotus, or the Bridgestone S02 that was made for the S2000. These type of tires have been tweaked to get the most from a specific car, but using them on a similar car can have fantastic results.
Geez, the Sumitomo 245/40-18 requires a 8" minimum wheel width ans the 255/35 and 255/40 is 8.5" minimum.
Easiest method is to go to TireRack and get the information.
I take it you're not part of "innacurate's team 255 club," lol?
Last edited by MonkeyTrucker; 01-21-2016 at 03:31 PM.
Forgive me for saying so, but most guys simply don't know any better. I've had the HTRZ and the HTRZII in the past, and they are great performing tires for the price, but they certainly aren't great tires, and it's the only tire that Sumitomo has that's worth anything .
Nothing to forgive and I do agree with your assessment.
I just learned that you have to pay more to get a better tire
Found this thread, with these pics of the A-Spec wheels members herein recently purchased, on what I assume is a true A-Spec '05 TL. I think it looks great and would fit my performance needs:
Nothing to forgive and I do agree with your assessment.
I just learned that you have to pay more to get a better tire
I know, right? It's funny how that works. Had I not bought a used set of wheels years ago that already had some super expensive Michelin Pilot's on them, I might still be in the dark.
I find that if you can buy a tire that was made for a specific car/reason, you can get more bang for your buck.
So far on the TL, as I've provided in other threads:
Bridgestone Potenza RE970AS Pole Position
Goodyear Eagle F1 Asymmetric
Capital UHP (not afraid to test a tire out ; but these were thrown in the trash - great dry traction though)
Pirelli P7 Cinturato Plus & XL All on the stock 17" wheel and recommended tire size.
All were outstanding tires as I wasn't expecting winter/snow performance and have a dedicated vehicle for those days, as many others do. And, so far in my trials of matching tires to the TL, the Pirelli tires I've raved about in other threads fit the TL the best imo and in relation to my aggressive and spirited driving style (mind you Spring thru Fall); key to remember though is the Plus designation and that they're XL rated.
I found out this great pairing, because again, I don't mind experimenting tires rather than always follow the herd.
I've never cheaped-out on tires, save the experiment with the Capitals...on any vehicle I've owned in the last decade.
I don't care to spend upwards of $200-250+ on a single tire any day of the week, so long as it fits my needs.
First thing I did when I purchased the car was put on the Pole Positions.
I've come across posts in other threads where you don't hide your disdain for all-season tires:
I don't believe all-season tires excel at anything, but I'll agree to disagree.
Originally Posted by VisualEchos
I would never race the TL, it'd be an exercise in futility at best. None of my recommendations are based on racing, just solid performance.
How exactly are you defining performance???
In essence a max performance summer tire is seasonal compared to extreme performance summer. I mean come on. Unless you're running extreme performance summer tires on all your vehicles, foot in mouth.... The Michelin Pilot SS are max performance, hence a blended tire and close in performance to some UHP tires...come on man.
Exactly how are you handling the rain if you're running a truly dedicated Summer tire (extreme)...I personally would prefer to not have to slow down . As again, extreme performance is the only true dedicated summer tire and TireRack only has 9 available and all are sub $185...wouldn't mount ANY on my car.
MANY members greatly enjoy their well paired UHP A/S tires...and get into an SUV/AWD during snow days.
In my opinion, the only true dedicated tire are those with a mountain and snowflake designation.
Per the lauded experts at TireRack:
Extreme Performance Summer
You want extreme dry street performance and are willing to trade some comfort and hydroplaning resistance to get it.
Not to be driven in near-freezing temperatures, in snow or on ice, or at high speeds in deep standing water, these specially tuned tires combine big-block tread designs with aggressive tread compounds and reinforced internal constructions to emphasize dry road response, traction, handling and high speed capabilities for serious driving enthusiasts.
Max Performance Summer
You want an unsurpassed blend of dry and wet street traction and handling and only the finest will do.
Not intended to be driven in snow or on ice, these technologically advanced ultra low profile, high speed tires combine computer developed designs, and unique materials with precision manufacturing techniques to provide an unsurpassed blend of dry and wet traction and handling.
Ultra High Performance All-Season
You want all-season versatility (including light snow traction) and are willing to trade some dry and wet traction and handling to get it.
Branded with the M+S symbol, these ultra low profile tires are designed to provide year-round traction (even in light snow) through tread designs and compounds that remain more flexible in the cold weather to help blend all-season traction with very good handling and high-speed capabilities.
Grand Touring All-Season
You want all-season versatility (including light snow traction) and responsive handling along with noise and ride comfort.
Branded with the M+S symbol and capable of providing year-round traction (even in light snow), these tires are designed to blend a performance tire's appearance with a passenger tire's smooth, quiet ride. Grand Touring All-Season tires are often used as Original Equipment and place more emphasis on handling and high-speed capabilities than Standard Touring tires.
Like you said, we all have different needs/wants/desires in our tires, but to discount A/S tires altogether is pretty short-sighted. A LOT of members track on UHP tires...
Last edited by MonkeyTrucker; 01-21-2016 at 05:06 PM.
I'm leaning on 255/40 for being slightly taller overall and under the magic 3% to OEM ratio.
It will:
-- fill out the wheel wells a little bit and close more of the gap on an A-Spec suspension (06 AT on MT 08W60-SEP-201B).
-- slightly beefier sidewall, closer to the 17".
-- less revs
-- either should really provide better handling and breaking than the current 235/45R17 I have....
Like I said earlier, I'm going with the 255/40/18 size, probaby Comp-2 A/S for my non-winter setup. I'll use a dedicated winter/snow tire for winter, not sure what size I'll run yet...
Originally Posted by MonkeyTrucker
Speedo diff is kinda moot imo:
255/40 @140mph odometer = actual ≈ 138.18mph
255/35 @140mph odometer = actual ≈ 143.64mph...
^^^ Isn't that backwards? For 255/40/18 vice stock 235/45/17, 140 MPH on the speedometer would be 143.9 MPH actual...
Also, keep in mind that for '04-'06 TLs, we have the lawsuit where Honda/Acura gave a 5% credit to the warranty mileage because the speedomter was proven to read up to 5% high. (Mine is actually ~ 2.5% high with stock wheel/tire size, so theoretically if I run 255/40/18's my speedometer should match actual speed.)
Like I said earlier, I'm going with the 255/40/18 size, probaby Comp-2 A/S for my non-winter setup. I'll use a dedicated winter/snow tire for winter, not sure what size I'll run yet...
^^^ Isn't that backwards? For 255/40/18 vice stock 235/45/17, 140 MPH on the speedometer would be 143.9 MPH actual...
Also, keep in mind that for '04-'06 TLs, we have the lawsuit where Honda/Acura gave a 5% credit to the warranty mileage because the speedomter was proven to read up to 5% high. (Mine is actually ~ 2.5% high with stock wheel/tire size, so theoretically if I run 255/40/18's my speedometer should match actual speed.)
Could've gotten those backwards, but was also using the well rounded data in the link I used to compare length/width/height, etc. The point I was making that both are negligible and seem to be blown out of proportion for being out of "optimal" ranges.
Thanks for the info about the mileage discrepancies in 04-06 TLs, further confirms my decision. Not that I'm looking for confirming bias.
I'm looking at a blended performance summer tire (max), I certainly don't regard it being truly dedicated for Summer other than that they'll be coming off next Winter. It's not the truest Summer tire, but it is certainly the sanest.
I'm looking at the Michelin Pilot SS, currently there are three available in 255/40/R18 and I'm only interested in the XL for stiffness...I despise sidewall flex. Please don't slob on the knob regarding these tires, it'd be enough to turn me off of them. If I can't find them, or don't go in that direction, I'll likely be back in a Pirelli.
The two XLs listed are $228.75 (special) and $239.75 (stated as new). Comparisons of the URLs alludes that the latter is "V2," which I assume is version 2 for this line of their max performance Super Sports.
Not in a hurry, will likely wait on a rebate between now and Spring to jump on them.
EDIT - Ditto on next year dedicating a true snow tire, I'll likely keep my stock and new 17" wheels and keep 235 for snow.
Last edited by MonkeyTrucker; 01-21-2016 at 06:26 PM.
I've come across posts in other threads where you don't hide your disdain for all-season tires, how exactly are you defining performance???
My standards are a bit higher than most because I've had so many performance tires, so many vehicles, and have been in so many car clubs. All-season tires suck, all of them. But why do I think they suck? Because their streetable track-tires kill them in every way, and so do their dedicated Winter counterparts.
I like a tire that turns in very fast (it helps nullify the horrible understeer most companies program into their cars), has a very stiff sidewall, and breaks away progressively. I don't care about tire wear at all, if it lasts 3,000 miles I'm good with that, because I understand that the brightest star burns out the quickest, hence the R888's, A048's, and A005's being my favorites. I suppose "feel" would be my defining factor in choosing a tire, and I understand that I would be different from most in that regard. This doesn't change the fact that all-season tires suck tho' .
Originally Posted by MonkeyTrucker
In essence a max performance summer tire is seasonal compared to extreme performance summer. I mean come on. Unless you're running extreme performance summer tires on all your vehicles, foot in mouth.... The Michelin Pilot SS are max performance, hence a blended tire and close in performance to some UHP tires...come on man.
The Exige wears full slicks (A005) in the summer, and semi-slicks (R888's) in the Winter (for when it's a nice sunny day @ 65° and I want to take a drive). The TL wears Goodyear F1 AS2's (for the moment) because I have to use that car for all my utility (the wife keeps her RDX close to her heart ). The TL wears Dunlop Winter Sport's in Winter. This coming Summer the TL will wear Michelin Pilot Sport CUP 2's.
Originally Posted by MonkeyTrucker
Exactly how are you handling the rain if you're running a truly dedicated Summer tire (extreme)...I personally would prefer to not have to slow down .
The R888's handle rain fantastically, and the GY F1's are good enough. Of course, with 245/265 tires, one has to be a bit more careful than if they were 195's.
Originally Posted by MonkeyTrucker
Like you said, we all have different needs/wants/desires in our tires, but to discount A/S tires altogether is pretty short-sighted. A LOT of members track on UHP tires...
Please don't call me short-sighted because I have higher standards. And please don't speak as if these members that track their cars with UHP tires are putting down times that would compete with semi-slicks, as such is not true.
Please enjoy your all-season tires, it's no skin off of my nose . You could always come drive my Exige, might just change your mind .
And PLEASE remember that tires are the single most important performance enhancement or detriment that you can do to your car! -Bob Bondurant
Last edited by VisualEchos; 01-21-2016 at 07:54 PM.
Reason: To add a quote
My standards are a bit higher than most because I've had so many performance tires, so many vehicles, and have been in so many car clubs. All-season tires suck, all of them......Please don't call me short-sighted because I have higher standards.
I don't think it's an issue of personal standards...
I get that you enjoy your Exige, seems to be a great choice for an cheap weekend adrenaline car. I don't consider it exotic by any means, cool for sure, but not exotic or lusted after.
I personally would've went with a GTR or something similar in adrenaline, if money was no object since buying tires every 3k appears to be a sensible financial decision for you. Or an Audi R8...quit burning money on tires and you can step up to a true exotic.
Originally Posted by VisualEchos
And PLEASE remember that tires are the single most important performance enhancement or detriment that you can do to your car! -Bob Bondurant
I don't think anyone here is disputing this...or, would place them out of their top three car priorities.
Top three for me are:
Tires
Brakes
Lights
Last edited by MonkeyTrucker; 01-21-2016 at 08:20 PM.
I get that you enjoy your Exige, seems to be a great choice for an cheap weekend adrenaline car. I don't consider it exotic by any means, cool for sure, but not exotic or lusted after.
Trying hard to keep my cool here, since you're calling my car cheap, and not exotic or lusted after. Maybe we run in different circles.
For the record, I never said the car was an exotic, or that I purchased it for lust. I purchased the car because it moves like no other normal car in the world, exotic or otherwise. To get a better driving feel you'd need to go with an Atom, 340R, or Caterham, and they're a bit too far on that end of the spectrum for my taste. The other reason I purchased the car was for photography, and to that end, very little compares.
Trying hard to keep my cool here, since you're calling my car cheap, and not exotic or lusted after. Maybe we run in different circles.
The other reason I purchased the car was for photography, and to that end, very little compares.
I bet joining all those clubs and forums has the added benefit of rubbing elbows with folks that are/may be interested in rig shots. Smart, for business, no doubt.
I'd hate to think about the time you spend in photoshop and editing out the boom in your shots.
And I can think of several cars that are more camera friendly, photoshop or not.
It is a cheap car. It's a car that only a high school student would break their neck looking at it. It's inexpensive, there, that better?
I'd consider the RLX or even a 5 series BMW more exotic than the Lotus.
The Lotus has always reminded me of a crotch rocket with an outer gimmicky shell...looks like the silly 3-wheel thing Rob Dyrdek drove on that show of his. Laughed my ass off at the guy in the Bull Run driving your "exotic" car. Sorry, it's not.
It seems you can come across as a little more haughty than you should. Yep, that's the word.
Opinions are like assholes, some smell more than others.
You guys really nerded out trying to outsmart each other on tires.
The lotus is a poor man's exotic, IMO but only due to cost...and yes. Buddy of a friend, Law had a red one that was supercharged and MAN that thing was fun to look at.
I would love one.
Anyway, y'all got me thinking of getting those Michelin's...although with the way I like car to sit, I likely would stick with stock tire sizes.
Protective vinyl removed, center caps/emblems nice and tight... Going to lay a nice thick coat of wax all over the wheels this weekend. While I love snow, not being able to install these wheels is killing me!!!! Arrrrggghhhhh!
01-21-2016, 07:35 AM
; but these were thrown in the trash - great dry traction though)
. The Michelin Pilot SS are max performance, hence a blended tire and close in performance to some UHP tires...come on man.
. As again, extreme performance is the only true dedicated summer tire and TireRack only has 9 available and all are sub $185...wouldn't mount ANY on my car.
