burntrat

I need some help on winter tires. I'm on stock tires/rims at the moment. It seemed to do ok on slush during that recent storm, but it probably won't cut it in deeper snow/ice. How does this process work? Do I buy snow tires and put them on my stock rims or do the tires already come with their own set? Is this something I would go to the dealership or local shop to buy? What would be the ballpark figure on getting winter tires/wheels? Thank you.

leedogg

check out the contintental DWS thread here. It's an excellent all season tire that has one of the best snow performance ratings out there. I would recommend just replacing your current tires with those and that will serve you year round.

anthracite_ftw

There are several routes you can take, depending on how much money you want to spend, and how much snow/ice you plan on driving in.

If you have $800-$1000 to spend on snow tires, then I suggest a winter tire+wheel package from tirerack.com. I have General Altimax Arctic's mounted on a cheap set of alloys, and they are incredible in deep snow and icy conditions. I think they were around $900 - mounted, balanced and shipped to my door.
I'll be putting them on next weekend, and taking them off in 4-5 months. Winter tires suck when the roads are warm and dry.

This option seems a lot more expensive, but you will own two sets of tires. This means each set sees less miles per year, and will last longer. In the long run, the only extra cost is for the 2nd set of wheels: $400 or so.

If you have less money to spend, and only want one tire for the whole year, I've heard great things about the DWS. Main reason why I didn't buy, was the super soft sidewall - it makes for kinda sloppy handling.
Keep in mind, as the tread depth goes down, so will traction in the snow. The tires may have 3/32 left and be perfectly fine in the summer, but no longer viable in the winter. That's why I like having two sets of tires.

burntrat

This is a tough decision. The DWS look to be the best of the A/S tires, but I'm not fully convinced it'll handle my winter. I am in the North Eastern part of the country. Snow and ice can be vicious around here. I don't plan on driving in a foot of snow, but I would like to be able to handle like 4-6" of snow in case a quick storm comes by during work time. If the DWS can do that, I'll definitely get those.

If I were to go the route of having dedicated snow tires, and order from tirerack.com, is it easy to switch out the wheels with the included jack in the trunk or should I have professionals do it?

guitarplayer16

iTrader: (8)

It's easy.

I don't know about the jack in the trunk though
Heard scary stories about them.

The important part is torqueing them to spec though so if you don't have a torque wrench, leave it to "the pros" lol

The pros could be your local shop, dealer, or next door neighbour too

anthracite_ftw

Very easy with a real jack and a pair of jackstands. If you plan on doing other maintenance DIY's in the future, this would be an excellent ~$70 investment at your local Sears or hardware store.

The spare tire jack is less than ideal: it's a pain in the ass to use, and not very stable looking.
My friend's Dad, however, uses the spare jack to change his tires twice a year - on three cars! I'm sure he's spent countless hours cranking it up and down over the years.

I own a torque wrench, but never thought to use it for tightening lug nuts. I don't think it's necessary, but I guess it couldn't be a bad idea to use if you have one.

Jesstzn

The DWS aren't any good in anything more than an inch of dry powder. Get dedicated winters.

A shop will charge anywhere from $8 to $10 to do a mounted swap and then your not guaranteed they will torque them properly.


3 winters =$120

Small floor jack $30
Torque wrench $50
19MM socket $5

Joy of doing it yourself ... priceless. And no appt or waiting in line.

burntrat

I can only get 3 for $120? Don't I need a 4th? And is that for wheels/tires or just tires? If it's for wheels/tires, I guess I can put them on myself if someone would recommend me decent quality jack, wrench, socket in that price range. If it's for just tires, I don't think I have the know how or equipment for a tire swap. I have trouble putting on foam covers for my mp3 ear buds.

burntrat

What are these scary stories that you have heard? This car is starting to bleed me dry with all equipment/tools and supplies. I do not want to spend extra money on a new jack unless I absolutely have to.

Jesstzn

Thats for the summer/winter change overs when you have wheels/tires already mounted. Basically saying for what the shop will charge to swap out wheels each season if your tirea are already mounted. For the $$ of 3 swaps you could buy your own jack etc.


Floor jack at WalMart $30. And no you don't need a super duper aluminum racing floor jack just to do tire changes but I wouldn't use the one in the trunk for anything but a flat.

Torque Wrench ( 0 to 150 lb/ft ) at Sears $50

19MM socket at Sears $5

You still need to buy wheels/tires and you mentioned Tire Rack.

Jesstzn

The OEM jack is not stable enough to do any more work around your car other that an emergency flat tire change.

Floor jack $30 ... having the car slip off the OEM jack ... ain't going to be "priceless"

burntrat

If the OEM jack is good enough for fixing flats, why isn't it good enough for swapping winter tires? Seems like if it isn't up to standards, it shouldn't be used at all. My car came with what looks to be a socket. I think it is a wheel lock socket? Is that something different or would I need to buy that 19MM socket? I'll try to take pics of what it came with.

I am at tirerack.com now and just clicked on the preferred package for my vehicle. The tires are:
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires....84&sortSize=16

The steel wheels are painted black (Size: 16X6.5)

How is this package? Yay or nay? I don't think I would need wheel covers right? They have been stolen on my family member's car before. Also, are TPMS really needed for winter? It is another $120 for a set. Ouch. I do have a digital tire pressure gauge already.

Total Package Cost = $736.00 + $85 shipping. Is this a good deal or can I get something cheaper? Looking for best bang for my buck.

Jesstzn

It can be but for $30 why not be safer.
A socket is needed for the torque wrench

Package looks fine but the rims might be a little narrow .. stock is 8" wide

I don't run TPMS and depending on the year of your TL you might just get a little warning once per trip

burntrat

You're right, safe then sorry.

I can't seem to find any rims 8" wide alloy or steel. I see 7.5" as the most widest.

I am in an 08 TL, does that warning go away or is that stuck on there until I do something about it?

leedogg

Are you speaking from experience or assumption? Deep snow survey ratings are fairly good...
(click survey tab)
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires....emeContact+DWS

I really like continental's tire compound, you should check out their winter tire if you want a dedicated snow.

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires....eWinterContact

Jesstzn

Experience. 7.5 out of 10 isn't that great when your in the ditch.. I really won't run any allseason in the snow ..

anthracite_ftw

If you move up to 17" wheel packages, you should find 8" wide alloys. Doesn't look like they have any steelies in this size.

A skinnier/smaller tire and wheel combo (like the one you chose), should do better in the snow. Conversely, it'll drive worse when the roads are warm and dry.

I have General Altimax Arctic (very good in snow, not good when it's warm & dry) mounted to 17x8" alloys. If I had to run a 16x6.5 wheel, I would definitely go with a more performance oriented snow tire, in order to balance it out.

Regarding the TPMS, it is by no means necessary. If you're not bothered by the look of steel wheels on your car, I don't expect a little warning light on the dash will worry you. Just remember to check your tire pressure manually, every so often.

Those ratings mean it does well in deep snow, relative to other high performance all season tires. Stacked up against an actual snow tire, I'm sure its deep snow ratings would be very poor.

leedogg

So you've driven the DWS in deep snow and it didnt fair well? Or are you saying your experience with allseasons in general? It was 7.8 btw.

Jesstzn

Ya I have ... didn't fare well in snow over 1" of powder and compared to other allseasons. 7.5/7.8 <-- same thing

leedogg

These are survey ratings by people reporting their experience with this tire under different conditions, not relative comparisons with other tires.

leedogg

I see. You mean compared to other winters though? Well, I might find out soon enough for myself this winter. I'll keep that in mind.

burntrat

Looks like the Conti EWC with the cheapest 17" alloys are going to cost me over 1k. OUCHHHHH.

What if I were to just purchase those EWC and swap the stock tires? That would sure save me a ton of money. How much would a place charge me to switch out just the tires?

Jesstzn

With the TPMS prolly $25+ per tire.

If your car doesn't have Brembos etc $644 gets you a set of 16" steelies with Dunlop Graspic winters. + shipping etc.

burntrat

I'm on a base 08 tl....so I wouldn't have Brembos right? I originally wanted 16" steelies for the cost factor, but I thought I needed something wide as my stock rims? How are the Dunlop Graspic winters compared to the Conti EWC? Same level or maybe a notch below?

Jesstzn

Narrower tire in the snow is a plus. I have been running the Graspic on my TL for 3 winters and they are excellent. I currently have them on my Civic as the TL is stored.

burntrat

Awesome, so I can put these 16X6.5 steelies on my TL without damaging anything?

And what are you winters like? How much snow/ice do you get?

Hope this works out because I would much prefer to switch them myself whenever I want to instead of keeping them on for a whole season.

Jesstzn

My back yard



And yes I live on the side of a mountain.

burntrat

nuff said.

I just want to make sure before purchasing that the Dunlop Graspic DS-3 and 16X6.5 steel wheels are suitable for an 08 base TL?

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires....84&sortSize=16

burntrat

I've been asking coworkers and friends and none of them seem to really change their tires. I think they keep the same set all year round. This kind of makes me want to reconsider and get those Conti DWS. That would probably save me a bunch.

Jesstzn

Its your car ... your choise ... and your money that you will spend fixing your suspension when you slide with the all seasons and hit a curb or another car.

Up here we are smart... its illegal to run A/S tires in the winter. We kill a lot less people .. ruin a lot less cars.

happyboy

Where do you live? How much snow do you guys get? Just because your co-workers drive all season tires doesn't make them smart. Personally, I'd rather be on semi-crappy snow tires than super-wicked DWSs.

my 2C worth.

happyboy

And FWIW I run the Dunlop Graspics as well........................(225/45-17)

burntrat

I'm in PA. Winter's can get pretty bad here. I think 1 year we had like over 72" of snow. Since, I am a very new driver, I should probably get dedicated tires right?

happyboy

I would strongly encourage dedicated winters...I am in Nova Scotia Canada...sometimes we get lots of snow, sometimes not. I usually run winters from Dec01 to end of March...the difference in car control between winters and all seasons is amazing.....

MVR 155

The best all season tire (such as the DWS) is going to be much worse in the snow than the worst rated snow/winter tire. I used to run the Conti Extremes which were the previous version of the DWS, when they were brand new they were decent at best in very light snow/slushy conditions. I run the General Altimax Arctics every winter now and the car is absolutely phenominal in the snow. I find myself leaving my H2 in the garage unless we are forecast to get a very heavy snowfall.

Do yourself a favor and buy the dedicated snow tires...... you will be more thankful than you know the first time you get a serious dumping of snow up there in PA

avs007

That's complete BS.
We had 27" of snow two years ago, and I live on the top of a hill. I was at work with the TL (wearing DWS) before the storm, and came home to about 6-7" of snow and the car did just fine. And there was glare ice under the snow. Lots of cars/suvs/etc got stuck on the hill going up, but we made it up the hill just fine. In fact I think we were one of the only people to make it up the hill, cuz cars were facing every which way on the road, but at the top it was just us and a few folks with chains on.

avs007

That's an overly broad blanket statement... I've taken our jeep out in 15+ inches of snow, wearing A/S Fortera Tripletreds. I can honestly say we were the ONLY vehicle to make it up our hill during the peak of the storm. Didn't need chains/studs/etc. (And it was quite cool seeing the marks the skid plates left in the snow)

Now I'm not trying to say that these tires are replacements for snow tires, I'm just saying that just because a tire is A/S doesn't mean it'll automatically suck in the snow, and any and every snow tire will be better in the snow... That's like saying even the worst Z-rated tire will give you much better dry traction and lateral stability than the best V-Rated tire. (Or worst Summer vs best A/S, etc)

For me, I don't buy dedicated snows, becuase it only snows maybe 2 weeks out of the year where I live, maybe 3 on a bad year. I laugh at the idiots that live near me, that throw on studded tires in October, and keep them on until spring, becuase of the week or two they may need it, yet they'll drive with these things when it's sunny/rainy and 50 degrees for the rest of winter, even tho they are getting much worse traction.

I also don't run dedicated summer tires, because there are very long periods where it will dip below 50 degrees with precipitation.... When I was running summer tires on my G35 (Pilot Sports), they were like driving on ice cubes if it was raining and < 50 degrees. That's why I run A/S tires all year round. Not enough summer, and not enough winter to justify dedicated tires. Now if you live in a climate where there are clear boundaries, than by all means, go for dedicated summer/winter tires.

IowaTL

I just purchased a set of 225/45 17 General Altimax Arctics for my TL and will have them installed on Friday. I hadn't had much experience with dedicated winter tires until I bought some for my Integra last year. I ran Hancook Ipikes on it last year and the difference was extremely noticeable. Couldn't find Ipikes for my TL around here and the Generals looked like a good alternative. My perspective on the whole winter tire situation is that my summer tires will last longer(only running half the year) and if the winter tires save me from one ditch or accident they've pretty much paid for themselves(insurance deductible). I got mine on Discount Tire Direct for $135 each shipped. I only have one set of wheels ATM so just mounting on the stocks. With Nitrogen fill, mount and balance I think the dealer said $90+ tax. Anyone know if insurance companies offer a rate discount for running winters?

burntrat

I'm still on the fence.

My area may get hit hard with heavy snow, but most of the time, the main roads are cleared quickly. It may not be cleared perfectly though. There could be repacked snow/ice later on.

Also, how accurate are those previews when purchasing the wheels/tires on tirerack.com? Them tires on 16" look pretty goofy on the tl.

leedogg

Listen. I'm in the DC area and have the DWS's for year round. a) its a pain to switch rims out b) if there's that much snow, I most likely wont be driving anyway and c) the DWS should serve me for the snow/plowed snow conditions i'm likely to face.

Plus I had the DWS predecessors and they served me well enough in prior snow conditions.