legionofdoom

cmkratt posted this in another thread -
Can anyone else chime in on this? I'm looking at buying new tires really soon and was pretty much set on the Nero. Might have to look at the Toyo Proxes 4 again which was one of my other choices (so any feedback on those is also helpul)...

Thanks in advance!

richrath

'04 Automatic, 235/45/17

Bought the tires Aug 05 from TireRack, car at 26,750 miles or so. Currently 65,001. Run consistently at 32-33 psi all-around; rotated religiously every 5K. For this review, my only point of reference on the car is the EL42's it came with .

I have really loved these tires. I figured they'd be good on this car and as far as I'm concerned they were.

Pros:
1. Fantastic grip, especially in the rain, though the wet traction began to fade after about 15,000 (as expected). I will say, however, that even today at 38,000 miles, they are better in the rain than the EL-42's were at 12-15K.
2. Comfort. To me they felt at least as comfortable, if not more so, than the EL42. To this day, the comfort factor hasn't really changed. They will flatspot, but this goes away after a couple miles. They also tend to get hard if your weather stays below 40F for a while. In summer, if it never gets under 60, they are really nice.
3. Early Noise profile. Wonderfully quiet for the first 12K or 15K, as stated in the quoted post. Of course, all tires get noisier as they age.

Cons:
1. Late Noise profile. Mine are now louder than the EL42's were at replacement, but I've kinda gotten used to it. When I change soon, it'll probably be a bit of a shock with new, quiet tires .
2. Price. This may or may not be a con for everyone, but currently the stock size is running about $144 at tirerack. Got mine at $131. Retail is much higher unless they cut you a deal or do price-match.

I don't have anything bad to say about these tires. I don't street race -- clearly, otherwise I'd not be at 38,000 miles with tread left. But I did lots of highway driving before I moved to GA, and I do like to go fast on interstates. (In Atlanta rush hours, you can't go fast on any road at all.) I also like to do some twisties but where I've lived twisty roads are usually 30 mph limits, and have traffic. Highway ramps and the occasionally free twisties, though, are no problem for these tires. The first thing I noticed was, compared to the EL-42's, that very small steering inputs resulted in.....get ready......STEERING!!! This was quite contrary to the crap OEM tires. The second thing was the unbelievable hydroplaning resistance, even at 70 or 75 mph, which for me lasted at least 15K but then quickly deteriorated. I have never been afraid of losing it at high speeds in any dry or wet corners or ramps, except lately in very wet weather. During my time in Baltimore - DC area, there wasn't that much snow to drive on but the bit we had was no trouble for the Zeros. In Atlanta, I don't anticipate much snow .

My next set will be Kumho Ecsta ASX because money is tight for us right now, and those can be had for under $90 apiece. I've PM'd others who've used them and I figure I'll like those nearly as much - or just as much. We'll see. If I wanted to pay $750 on the wheel and out the door, I'd do the Zeros again in a heartbeat. I actually feel a little wistful about letting 'em go...

In short, I highly recommend these tires on this car if you want to pay that price. It may be that for less money you could do just as well, but I can't testify to that given that these are the first replacements I've had on my TL.

legionofdoom

Richrath,

Thank you so much for that detailed review! Anyone else?

-LOD

dman918

I think that is a pretty fair review of the Pirelli's. I think they are fantastic tires. Although my Kumho ASXs are a great value, I would say the pirelli's were a little better in every respect. I also heard the Avon's are a great option if you want something priced and performing in between these two tires. Good luck!

waahu

I had read a while back that the Pirellis had a tendency to tram-line. Curious if anyone had that experience with the Pirellis or its a non-issue.

avs007

I was thinking about trying the Bridgestone Potenza Pole Position All/Seasons. I think RE060A or something like that. They actually have a 40,000 mile warranty....

wackjum

Pzero Nero M&S on a 1998 3.2TL (225/45 R17).

I have over 20k but less than 30k miles on them. My guess is 23-24. I can't remember exactly and I can't find the paperwork right now.

They are wearing pretty well for such a grippy tire. They're not *that* grippy but certainly more than MXV4s and the like. More than enough for day to day and even light spirited driving.

I went from a 205 original size to a 225, and I don't think they track on grooves at all. But my old size did. Whether that's a function of size or tire, I can't say. (That's what tram lining is right?)

They grip well in the rain. I probably have about 30% life left on the treads.

There was a spell where I forgot to rotate them and left them on for a good 8k or so. They didn't show any worse for the wear.

Also, one of them survived a minor accident. A truck merged into me and scrapped up my rear quarter panel and gouge the rim pretty badly in places. The tire was fine and still being used. Take that for what it means.

I would get them again. Even with the high price. All in all, they've been real good. Like others have said, I noticed they do get noisy as they wear

leedogg

I have my conti extremecontacts as my all season 'winter' tire, and they've been great so far, I'll be picking up either the Nero's or the Poles as my all season 'summer' tires come spring when I get new rims as well.

For value tires, I would definitely consider the conti contacts, the poles, and the avons.

SitAndMeditate

I've been using a set of the Pirelli M&S since September and I've got 10K miles or so logged. I'm not crazy about these tires. My car is a 6-speed and I break the tires loose everyday in 1st gear, and I'm not a fast aggressive driver. They're just not as grippy as a summer tire.

Rain - again these tires aren't as grippy in the rain as a Michelin PS2.

Snow - I've driven on these to Tahoe. Grip here IS better than a summer tire. However, if there's half an inch of snow, the car will break loose and slide.

Tramlining - yes these tires tramline on roads with strange surface patterns.

Noise - they're not so noisy crusing, but I chirp at least once a day in 1st gear.

Treadlife - 10K miles and still looks almost new. These things are going to last forever. Aw man this is a bad thing for me because I want a different tire.

Price - less than 150 each, which is one of the reasons I tried them, they're cheaper than summer tires.

legionofdoom

I have a 6-spd too. Did you also break the tires loose with the OEM EL42's?

SitAndMeditate

Legion,

Comparing the EL42's, I remember they did not break loose as readily as the Pirelli's. I thought the EL42's did not last very long, 15K miles, and after about 10K they lost grip and caused my car to pull in one direction. Most TL owners were outraged that they last only 15K miles, but I'm accustomed to summer tires that last between 15 and 20K miles. I wouldn't buy EL42s again because they're quite a bit worse than other performance tires and they cost just as much.

The Pirellis don't grip very well for me, maybe worse than a fresh EL42. But they're not deteriorating rapidly like a EL42. At this rate I'm gonna put like 30K on these tires before they're done.

I really liked the Michelin PS2s, the only negative is that they're expensive, close to 200 dollars each now.

I might try something like the Bridgestone RE050a next, my wife has them on her IS350 and I'm pretty impressed with them so far.

runopenloop

I have an 04 6-spd that had the first gen of EL42s. I hated those tires - put on the PZero Nero M+S at about 18K. Now at 25K, I can say I like the Pirellis a lot better. The dry traction and cornering is much much better. Grip when wet is excellent compared to the EL42s, which I found borderline dangerous. Overall I'm happy with the tires.

My complaints are minor flat spotting, tramlining, and poor snow/ice performance. Granted we're had a rough winter here in the Denver area. I've been dead stuck in 4+ inches of snow and or slush. Luckily that has been within 1 - 3 blocks from my house and once in the parking lot at work. They are wearing faster than I'd hoped (and I keep them properly inflated). I bet I only get 20-25K out of them -- was hoping for 30+. Not sure if I'll buy them again or try something else.

t0talacuratl

iTrader: (3)

I bought my 04 6mt used, and it had the Continental's on them before. I got the Pirelli's for over $140 each, and I think they are great! Grip as far as handling(dry or wet) and tire noise are wonderful! They do break traction easily, but I've learn to live with it. I only have 8k on them so far though, but just giving my two cents.

legionofdoom

Thanks again for all the feedback! Keep 'em coming!

04TLMan

I have an 04 6MT. Ran the EL-42 for about 18K, Then got the Nero's. Also run Mich Alpine Snows. Getting more wear on the Nero's, maybe to 30K. No issues with tramling. Noise about the same....but then hard to remember that comparison after a few days of driving IMHO. But what I did notice...when changing from the EL-42 to the Mich snows...the delta was not great. But when switching from the Nero to snows...what a diff. As expected the snows did not handle very well and were noisy. So that says the ELs were poor (close to the snows - no kidding!!)
I like the Nero's but still wear too fast. Even though I stopped chirping them in second gear---still do first though ;o)

7thgear

I have just a little over 10K miles on my Pirelli's. Now, it's pretty noisy. I've rotated the tires regularly and I can't believe the road noise. The previous Michellin tires were better in terms of road noise. Pirelli's were a little better on handling. America's Tire Company told me that the noise is coming from cupping of the tires. Never hear of it before, but when they showed it to me it looked like the tires were subjected to a lot of heavy breaking. I don't do any heavy breaking where the car comes to a screaming halt, just normal city breaking. I will not buy these tires again. Not for the money. I will go back to Michellins if I can't find tires that are quiet.

FORSITE

Yes, they do tram-line; however, keep both hands on the wheel and it's really not an issue. I've noticed with these tires you're more intune with the road therefore from a performance perspective they're great!

Given the opportunity though, I wouldn't mind trying the Michellin Sports...

Good luck and keeps us informed of your decision!

jupitersolo

Just about 3000 miles on mine. I love them.