tl-pain

Noob here, just purchased an 04' tl, w/o nav, w/ ........ ~97k!!! now has ~100k in about 2 months!! Still running strong and smooth!

Here is the scoop (This has probably been covered but, I think its EXTREMELY important)

I was doing research on FWD handling characteristics, namely understeer (bad), and I came across this website

To make a long story short, the article stated that to REDUCE understeer or INCREASE oversteer in FWD vehicles, you need to increase front tire pressure and or REDUCE rear tire pressure.

Put 40 psi in the front and 29 psi in the back and whoomph! it was like a completely different car. Tightened the turn radius, drastically reduced torque steer, tracked much straighter and truer, even on crowned and bumpy roads. Spent $0.75 at gas station twice to get front tires to 40 psi. Ok, I'm not being totally honest, I also got an alignment today as well. but that is normal maintenance, doesn't really count.

My next mod (real mod this time), will be to lower the front (ONLY!) ride height

Will Y.

Yes, it's mentioned every so often in the Tires, Wheels and Suspension subforum, usually when someone is posting about their TPMS going off because they have too little air in the tires. Keeping recommended or higher amount of air in the tires also helps reduce tire wear and helps steering feel.

Congrats and welcome to AZ!

stavebomb

really? how much better is the turning radius because our TLs are horrible...just my opinion.

tl-pain

marginally better, TRY IT, you will see the difference!

csmeance

was it filled to 40PSI cold? also if your at 40, you will probably get uneven wear and your chances of a blowout increase. As well, you may loose some wet traction. Lastly, make sure your tires can handle the 40PSI cold as we don't want a thread starting with" I crashed my TL into a Median". just looking out for safety. In reguards to the thread, the Tl is easily affected by air pressure changes. My 04 will drive like a POS in the colder mornings, but in the afternoon when around 75 F, the car drives like a dream.

ballinfizzle89

iTrader: (6)

tl-pain

luckily for me, I live in miami, florida, so i don't have to worry about cold weather too much. Just to quantify, last christmas day, it was over 80 degrees!!

Thanks for the tips on safety, I believe the max air pressure for my tires (all season) is 44 psi. Conventional wisdom on tire wear, is not to exceed 36 psi, but this is only an experiment. I will reduce to 37-38 psi in the next couple of days. I will keep up the alignments every 3 months or so. Uneven wear is pretty much inevitable, might as well have fun gettin there.

csmeance

I live in daytona and it drops to the 40's at nights and back to the mid 70's in the day, sometimes 80'a. Keep check on the alignment and remember to rotate. Drop the PSI down to about 38 COLD! I mean leave the car to rest at night and in the morning, before even turning on the car, bring it down to about 37 or 38 PSI.

tl-pain

will do what about the rear? 30 or 31?

GLowrdr

Holy Batman!!! You do a friggin alignment every 3 months? Unless there was a memo that I didn't get somewhere down the line, I don't think this is necessary at all.

Also, no expert or anything here, but isn't it a little misleading to say that uneven tread wear is inevitable? I kind of thought if you have uneven tread wear, something was wrong (like alignment or tire pressure).

I'm only 28, and old enough to realize all of the things that I don't know - but I didn't think I was this far out of the ballpark on either of these two ideas.

(Now I'm actually worried.... you're not really supposed to get alignments that often are you?. I kind of reserved that for a special occasion (new tires or rims, accident, or your car darting for the curb when you take your hands off the wheel to take a bite your sandwich while talking on the phone and flipping the guy next to you the finger for not paying attention to the road)

tl-pain

On your first point, yes, it is inevitable that your front wheels will wear unevenly. The degree/severity that this happens is determined by the way you maintain them, hence the need for alignments, tire pressure checks and tire rotations periodically.

On your second point, the standard alignment interval for most cars is every 6 months. However, the roads are so bad here in miami, i think every 3-5 months maybe more appropriate.

Bearcat94

^^

An alignment is not necessary that often. Normally only when/if the car pulls, the steering wheel isn't centered when going straight or if you've got uneven tire wear.

Alignment is more of "as needed" item, not a time/mileage item.

csmeance

well, alignments are necessary not based upon a time or milage basis, but when needed due to conditions such as tire wear, pulling to one side, new rims/tires, and also when the car starts developing vibrations and pulling.

GLowrdr

Wow.. that's actually news to me then. I think in my <15 years of driving, I can remember having like 2 or 3 alignments done to any vehicle.

I never really knew that it was standard maintanance. I guess in my defense though the TL is really the only car that I've ever really given a damn about.

Not that I never cared for any of my other cars, but I guess this is the newest, and most expensive where I can get that feeling that if I take care of it, whatever the outcome is, it's directly related to me. Not like when I bought an '83 olds cutlass (t-tops, crager SS rims, lowered, sweet duallies, etc) and starting to take care of it after 20 years of someone else neglecting it.


I feel like i have been shown the light.... (queue the wierd church music)

tl-pain

ok, it is SUGGESTED that you get an alignment every 6 months. Thats the rule of thumb. Tire pressure consistency, driving style, road conditions all contribute tire wear and life.

tl-pain

forgot to add "alignment consistency"...

princelybug

iTrader: (16)

There are many factors which can affect wheel alignment. Tire pressures, and normal tire wear will affect alignment, even. I try to get mine done "every 6K miles" at least. (Lifetime Alignments<---Great Investments)

ndabunka

I will have reached my 4th year of ownership of this 2004 TL in exactly 7 days. In that time I have had it aligned TWICE. Once when I put the first set of after market wheels on the car (about a year after I bought it). I didn't have any pulling or anything form the wheels beforehand. I just wanted to make certain everything was still perfect for the new tires (think I wanted to make certain the new expensive tires would last as long as possible). The second time was about a year ago when I got the 19" wheels (and I did it for the exact same reason). In general, the alignment on these cars is pretty darn bullet proof. They ARE Hondas afterall, you would EXPECT that they not require much maintenance. 4-wheel alignements around here are something like $95/pop. Wasting a C-note every 3 months doesn't make much sense.

TeKNiC3

How will he get uneven wear?

40psi isn't too high IMO.

Then again, I have 19's that I keep 38-40 psi in.

tl-pain

I'll drop'em to 38 just as a safety measure. I will keep the rears at 30 psi. I think everyone should at least try this once.

tl-pain

You shouldn't be getting 4 wheel alignments unless you have rear wheel drive or all-wheel drive.

rksokol

Dude, what do you drive on - glass runways? I drive in/out of DC everyday, pay $129 per alignment, and totally notice the difference after the dealer does it! They also guarantee their alignments for 12 months. So the last alignment I got was free b/c the one before that was administered only 8-9 months prior.

NewTL2007

I NEVER did alignment service on my prior 2003 TL (own for 4 years), works and runs great, no pulling, no vibration, perfect car with 48K miles at the end. Tire pressure has been checked during oil changes ONLY (every 6 months).

My current 07 TL has tire pressure monitor, however the same story - adjust tire pressure every 6 month (during oil changes). No any alignment service yet.

tl-pain

We are getting way off topic here... alignments are important, no matter how you slice it. The point I am making is that with front tire pressure (which carries the most weight) 4-6 psi greater than the rear, within reasonable limits, you WILL see a DRASTIC improvement in hard cornering handling and turn radius (assuming you DON'T have low profile tires, and if you DO have low profile tires, you should NOT be taking corners at higher speeds ). This is no-brainer improvement, since most people (myself included, until I read the article) adhere to the conventional wisdom of keeping the same tire pressure for all 4 wheels.

Bearcat94

Not according to the Owners Manual it's not. There is nothing in the Owners Manual to suggest that an alignment is a periodic maint item.

The "suggested" 6-months interval is part of the "old school" maint schedule - change the oil every 3 months or 3,000 miles.

I agree w/ndabunka on this.


Regarding "Turn Radius" - Your TL has a MINIMUM turn radius of ~39 or 40 feet. You CAN'T improve it. You can improve your *Turn Rate*.

An Air Pressure Differential (Front-to-Rear) IS recommened by Acura:

TL: F = 33; R = 32
TL-S: F = 35; R = 32
Sustained High Speeds, either Model: F = 39; R = 35

So there is nothing new or special in the idea of running a F/R air pressure differential.

Manach

The max pressure on my proxies is 50psi, seems so high but I guess thats because of the style tire?

S PAW 1

X2

tl-pain

Who said anything about new or special? READ MY FIRST POST AGAIN. I said that this has most likely already been covered. However, how many people DO YOU KNOW follow the car manafactures guidlines (if any) when it comes to tire pressure? I can tell you I had no idea what Acura recommended, I just followed the old rule of thumb, 36 psi/all tires, the point is that MOST PEOPLE (LIKE ME) JUST FOLLOW THE RULE OF THUMB. BTW, recommended pressures usually come from the TIRE manafacturer not the CAR manafacturer.

Regarding turn radius:

Whatever the minimum turning radius is I have no clue, apprarently you read that it was 39 feet, OK... (how about your source, just for record?) Now HOW exactly am I gonna measure that? Bring a tape measure?

See, what you quoted is the minimum, which was most likely obtained (if legit) under the MOST IDEAL CONDITONS for the stock setup. However, conditons are not always ideal, case in point: most people keep the same tire pressure for all tires. So when I say "improve your turning radius", it means, approach or get closer to the IDEAL turning radius.

I appreciate your frankness in this matter, but I think you missed the part that I have only had this car for 2 months. I don't know everything (like you) yet.

S PAW 1

Without the unnecessary sarcasm directed at others, the tire pressures you recommended are substantially above factory settings. They will result in a) faster tire wear in front, b) increased sensitivity to sidewinds, therefore instability.
You attracted flaming by sounding as if you reinvented the wheel, even though you qualified it to a certain extent. You introduced some basic laws of dynamics, which is good. But then you went to the extreme with the lower turning radius, which drastically reduced your comprehension and understanding of those dynamics. When challenged, you reacted...unfortunately.
The turning radius of the TL is 39.7 feet, and is a little hard to find because it is not a strongpoint of the TL. It can be found under www.acuranews.com/TL/technical.
Bottom line is that it is good that you are exploring the benefits that your fine machine has to offer. Experimentation with mods and fine tuning, and communicating that information is why this site so great. Keep doing what you're doing, just chill a little.
It's all good

tl-pain

For the record, the sarcasm was directed at you, clearly, I quoted you, since you were the one doing the flaming.

But anyways, Thanks

Again, I am new here so any improvement I see will be quite drastic at least in my eyes. I guess you already know all this stuff, so maybe I was preaching to the quior. However, I don't think its common knowledge (rule of thumb) to use a F/R air pressure differential for TL's or other front drive vehicles to improve handling (except maybe in the hardcore track racer tuner circles). That's why I included the article. The tire pressure is only one aspect.

apexii

Great post (orig poster) and way to bring us back on topic spaw...

I will be trying different F/R combo's on my new set of shoes...

Bearcat94

tl-pain, of course you are right that most people don't know or won't find out the proper inflation or maint for thier cars. And for those people, most of them won't care or understand what you're trying to tell them.

The maint and tire pressure recommendations are in the Owners Manual, so ther're available to the masses if they care to take the time and look.

I think most of the people here tend to be more careful and better informed about thier cars. That doesn't mean they always follow the manufacturer's recommendation, but they make a more informed decision about thier choices.

The points I made about Alignment and Turn Radius were not to throw stones, but to clarify any possible misconceptions that someone reading later might have.

tl-pain

S-PAW-1, I quoted the wrong person, This was directed at Bearcat94. Sorry about the mix up.

tl-pain

Thanks,

You should probably stay within the manafacturers recommendation, although I think +/- 1 to 2 psi will probably reduce your tire life as tradeoff to better handling. I for one, prefer the handling benefits.

For me, my next mod is lower ride height

S PAW 1

I recently attended the Acura high performance racing school at MidOhio Raceway. You have the opportunity to use your own car, instead of the TSX A-Spec machine. They recommended adding 5 psi to the factory settings for running the course. But of course, most of the time you're on on the outer third of your tread
Wouldn't recommend it for daily use!

tl-pain

Well, I guess that settles it , its not everyday you know that people go to the "Acura high performance racing school". ok, so 2-3 psi above factory is a perfect compromise (37 psi to 38 psi), since I am willing to give up some tire tread life for better performance. Since I will not be on the track anytime soon, I will not be affected by the tire wear modes that you encountered on the track.

Bearcat94

S'all right. I knew who you meant and no offense taken; nor did I intended any.


With regard to your original point, I suspect that is exactly why Acura recommends the pressure differential, particularly for the TL-S and for sustained high speed driving.

bmaczo6

iTrader: (1)

Higher front tire pressure will help with understeer.

On the question of alignments they are not needed unless there is a problem. If a shop is recommending regular alignments it is to enhance revenue. One of our current vehicles has never had an alignment in over 80 thousand miles and I have no plans to get one. It tracks straight and has even tire wear. Anyone that gets regular alignments is simply throwing away money.

bmaczo6

iTrader: (1)

I seriously doubt you will experience any increase in tire wear, in fact, I would suspect the opposite to be true. Moderate tire pressure recommedations by the manufacturer are generally for ride consideration and little else. I have found over the years that if I run higher pressures all around I get the benefit of better handling, better fuel mileage, and better tire life with a slight sacrifice in ride comfort.

007TL-S

also running PSI's alittle to high will also cause uneven wear along the center of the tires etc...