Directional tire screw-up?
10-02-2005, 09:55 AM
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Directional tire screw-up?
I had replaced my crappy Turanza EL42's last fall with Falken Ziex 512's. I had the (one and only) Acura dealer mount and balance them. A few months later, I was still having a vibration. When it was in for an oil change, the Acura dealer balanced them again. I was overdue for a rotation. This morning I went out to do that. I was looking at the Falkens and I noticed they are directional tires. I hadn't thought of that when I bought them. I noticed that the dealer mounted both driver's side tires backwards!. I've got 7,000 miles on them now. What to do?
Does anyone know what the tire companies "official" stand is on running directional tires backwards? If the dealer wants to try to take the cheap way out, they will simply dismount and remount the tires going forward. That will make the water channeling work, but what has happened to the tire by running in the "wrong" direction? My gut reaction is to try to force the dealer to replace all four tires. I can't just replace those two, driver's side, because I'd have one side of the car with 7,000 mile older wear. I can't pair up older and newer on the same "axle" since the passenger side is OK. What to do?????
Does anyone know what the tire companies "official" stand is on running directional tires backwards? If the dealer wants to try to take the cheap way out, they will simply dismount and remount the tires going forward. That will make the water channeling work, but what has happened to the tire by running in the "wrong" direction? My gut reaction is to try to force the dealer to replace all four tires. I can't just replace those two, driver's side, because I'd have one side of the car with 7,000 mile older wear. I can't pair up older and newer on the same "axle" since the passenger side is OK. What to do?????
10-02-2005, 10:38 AM
#2
2005TL(6MT)
I believe the radial tire rotation is a thing of the past. For a long time now there has been descrepancy about this but probably due to the past when they were not supposed to be move between sides. They were marked with chalk when removed from the car to identify which side of the car they were on. Rotation was only front to back.
If you look in your owners manual at the non-directional tires you'll see Acura recommends moving them between sides which would change the direction of rotation. The directional tires stay on the same side probably only due to tread pattern to direct water away from the center of the tire.
From the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration:
( http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/rules/.../brochure.html )
Rotating tires from front to back and from side to side can reduce irregular wear (for vehicles that have tires that are all the same size). Look in your owner's manual for information on how frequently the tires on your vehicle should be rotated and the best pattern for rotation.
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From http://www.aa1car.com/library/tire_r...ridgestone.pdf
The "Cross Pattern" provides the best results and can be performed on any Front or Rear Wheel Drive vehicle equipped with 4 non-unidirectional tires. (Unidirectional tires must be rotated front to rear only.)
Unidirectional treads are designed to perform in the direction denoted on the tire sidewall only. They must always be rotated front to rear - despite the type of vehicle they are installed on - so the direction of the revolution does not change.MaintenanceTire RotationCross Rotation4 Wheel DriveStraight Rotation5 Tire RotationInflation PressureRepairConstructionSizes & ClassificationsReplacementMaintenanceTechnologyTir e TermsSafety SummaryHomeNOTE: Rotate full size spare only.NOTE: Never include a temporary spare tire in the rotation.
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FAQ from Goodyear ( http://www.goodyeartires.com/faqs/Rotation.html )
Should I rotate my tires?
Regular and proper tire rotation promotes more uniform wear for all of the tires on a vehicle. All season tires should be rotated in a "modified X" pattern, meaning only the tires being moved to the drive axle are crossed to the opposite side of the vehicle.
The remaining two tires are moved from the drive axle to the free rolling axle, remaining on the same side of the vehicle.
This method of rotation helps promote a more even and uniform treadwear pattern for all four tires.
The only exception to this would be the use of "directional" tread design tires such as our Aquatred II or some of our Eagle line high performance tires. These tires would remain on the same side of the vehicle and be rotated straight forward and straight back.
If you have a four-wheel drive vehicle, we recommend crossing both pairs of tires to their new axle positions.We recommend tire rotation at least every 6,000 miles. Four-wheel drive vehicles may require rotation even sooner such as every 4,000 miles. Check your vehicle owner's manual for the manufacturer's rotation recommendations. If no rotation period is specified, tires should be rotated every 6,000 to 8,000 miles. The first rotation is the most important. When tires are rotated, inflation pressures must be adjusted to the vehicle manufacturer's recommendations. Uneven tire wear may also be due to misalignment or mechanical problems. Many Goodyear retailers can provide expert diagnosis and repair.
If you look in your owners manual at the non-directional tires you'll see Acura recommends moving them between sides which would change the direction of rotation. The directional tires stay on the same side probably only due to tread pattern to direct water away from the center of the tire.
From the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration:
( http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/rules/.../brochure.html )
Rotating tires from front to back and from side to side can reduce irregular wear (for vehicles that have tires that are all the same size). Look in your owner's manual for information on how frequently the tires on your vehicle should be rotated and the best pattern for rotation.
-------------------------
From http://www.aa1car.com/library/tire_r...ridgestone.pdf
The "Cross Pattern" provides the best results and can be performed on any Front or Rear Wheel Drive vehicle equipped with 4 non-unidirectional tires. (Unidirectional tires must be rotated front to rear only.)
Unidirectional treads are designed to perform in the direction denoted on the tire sidewall only. They must always be rotated front to rear - despite the type of vehicle they are installed on - so the direction of the revolution does not change.MaintenanceTire RotationCross Rotation4 Wheel DriveStraight Rotation5 Tire RotationInflation PressureRepairConstructionSizes & ClassificationsReplacementMaintenanceTechnologyTir e TermsSafety SummaryHomeNOTE: Rotate full size spare only.NOTE: Never include a temporary spare tire in the rotation.
-------------------------
FAQ from Goodyear ( http://www.goodyeartires.com/faqs/Rotation.html )
Should I rotate my tires?
Regular and proper tire rotation promotes more uniform wear for all of the tires on a vehicle. All season tires should be rotated in a "modified X" pattern, meaning only the tires being moved to the drive axle are crossed to the opposite side of the vehicle.
The remaining two tires are moved from the drive axle to the free rolling axle, remaining on the same side of the vehicle.
This method of rotation helps promote a more even and uniform treadwear pattern for all four tires.
The only exception to this would be the use of "directional" tread design tires such as our Aquatred II or some of our Eagle line high performance tires. These tires would remain on the same side of the vehicle and be rotated straight forward and straight back.
If you have a four-wheel drive vehicle, we recommend crossing both pairs of tires to their new axle positions.We recommend tire rotation at least every 6,000 miles. Four-wheel drive vehicles may require rotation even sooner such as every 4,000 miles. Check your vehicle owner's manual for the manufacturer's rotation recommendations. If no rotation period is specified, tires should be rotated every 6,000 to 8,000 miles. The first rotation is the most important. When tires are rotated, inflation pressures must be adjusted to the vehicle manufacturer's recommendations. Uneven tire wear may also be due to misalignment or mechanical problems. Many Goodyear retailers can provide expert diagnosis and repair.
10-02-2005, 12:54 PM
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The owners manual shows both rotation patterns. The OEM Bridgstone Touranzas were not unidirectional so you could rotate side to side. I did send an email to Falken asking that all important question. If they come back and tell me "no harm, no foul" to run them backwards, I'll just reverse them. If Falken tells me it ain't good to run them the other way, that should give me the ammunition I need to go back on the dealer. Thanks for your insight.
10-03-2005, 04:53 PM
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I talked with the Tech Support guy a Falken today. He said as long as something wasn't out of alignment, causing wear on one side or the other of the tire, it was okay to turn them around the correct way. Old school said not to do that he said new school is we know how to make tires that work. The only other word of caution he had was if there was any "feathering" of the different blocks of tread, turning them the other way could make them noisier.
10-03-2005, 07:00 PM
#5
2005TL(6MT)
I'm glade to hear them confirm the new school practice. It also sounds reasonable about the tire wear and it would be very similar if not the same as front to back rotation with tire wear.
I'm sure many people have experienced their car feeling different after front to back rotation. I don't mean vibration from tires that are no longer in balance but handling, drifting and probably traction too. The feel could be better or worse depending on the type of tire wear and where it was located on the car (f/b). Usually the front is much more sensitive that the rear.
Anyway good luck with the remounts. The dealer should fix the two tires at no cost to you since they are completely at fault. Luckily there is no damage to the tire from the "reverse" rotation and you will obviously get better wet traction when it is fixed.
I'm sure many people have experienced their car feeling different after front to back rotation. I don't mean vibration from tires that are no longer in balance but handling, drifting and probably traction too. The feel could be better or worse depending on the type of tire wear and where it was located on the car (f/b). Usually the front is much more sensitive that the rear.
Anyway good luck with the remounts. The dealer should fix the two tires at no cost to you since they are completely at fault. Luckily there is no damage to the tire from the "reverse" rotation and you will obviously get better wet traction when it is fixed.
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