brianch

I agree with what you have to say. As a street tire your Michilens are great. If you wanted to do occasional tracking you would go with something more grippy like a RS3. Well if you were to get another set of tires for tracking I wouldn't get RS3s. I'd get NT01s. Run the michelins on the street and the NT01s on the track.

I agree that in this level of tires most people will not be able to tell the difference in dry grip between these max performance tires. So what do you go by to decide what to buy for street use?

1. Road noise
2. Ride comfort
3. Treadwear
4. Wet performance
5. Hydroplane resistance


If you don't want to believe Tire Rack and Car and Driver lets read the AVERAGE USER RATINGS. These are surveys by regular drivers rating the tires on different aspects. Lets take a look at the aspects that make a good street tire.

Hankook Ventus RS3

• Hydroplaning Resistance 6.6
• Wet Traction 6.9 (The Z1s did seem to grip better in light rain)
• Ride Comfort 7.5
• Noise Comfort 7.1
• Tread Wear 7.2 (I'd give it a 6 if it was me)

Dunlop Direzza Star Spec Z1

• Hydroplaning Resistance 8.0 (bull crap my Z1s spun out way more than my RS3s)
• Wet Traction 8.4
• Ride Comfort 7.7
• Noise Comfort 7.1 (disagree vs the RS3 - the Z1s are way louder once you get past 80% tread - they sound like a plane taking off on concrete)
• Tread Wear 7.4

Michelin Pilot Super Sport

• Hydroplaning Resistance 9.0
• Wet Traction 9.1
• Ride Comfort 9.0
• Noise Comfort 8.9
• Tread Wear 8.7

Yokohama Advan AD08

• Hydroplaning Resistance 7.7 (I think this is the worst one personally. Driving these tires in deep water is ball shattering)
• Wet Traction 8.0
• Ride Comfort 7.8
• Noise Comfort 7.8
• Tread Wear 7.2

If you still prefer the Z1 and RS3 for a daily driver summer tire go ahead. Just be warned. If it is heavy raining and your city has crappy uneven roads. Be careful over 40mph - if the road is curved or you are taking a turn and there is a puddle.. If you take it with any sort of speed - you will turn around. It really isn't funny.



I am really looking forward to trying the Super Sports on the TL. I think they are a great balance of performance and daily driveability. I will continue to run NT01s and the Z1s (well Z2s now) on my non daily RSX.

pohljm

I as well as IHC are located in so cal wet traction and rain performance are really non issues. I daily drive on hankook v12's and am satisfied. I would be concerned about the weight of the tire more than wet performance

I hate cars

As I said, some of us aren't worried about tread life and that the rating varies between manufacturers. We get a couple inches of rain a year here. I drive normal in the rain. I'm also very comfortable sliding sideways and in the thousands of times I've done it I've never once, not one time in 20 years of driving lost control wet or dry or mud. I drive my turbo car on slicks or bald drag radials and I've been caught in the rain. You adjust your driving style to the tire and the conditions. You act as if these tires will cause you to spin out if you run over spit. I have no problems on tires with no tread. Anything with tread is easy. If you've spun out more times than you can count I suggest a good driving school.

Back to the topic at hand, I want the best stopping and the best cornering tire for both safety and fun. The RS3 stops 4' shorter than your precious Michelins which could be the difference in an accident and no accident. The performance gap will likely widen from higher speeds. The fact is the RS3 outperforms the Michelins and we have no rain here a d I drive 3 miles round trip to work. There's no reason for me to not get the RS3 even if it did rain a lot over here.

I used to track the TL I don't anymore because its getting older but don't come on here and act as if you're the only one that has tracked a car, I've been on the track in one form or another several times with 1200+hp since I was 16, 20 years ago.

brianch

Sorry dude this thread isn't about you.

Go make your own thread titled best performance tire for dry pavement.

The poster wants a daily driver tire for new england.

Not everyone lives in Socal

#socalsuperioritysyndromeproblems

I still believe the Super Sports are the best all around summer tire. It's great that you don't get any rain. I get a shit load of rain in vancouver. We get floods when god decides to rain for days straight.

I actually have a dashcam video of me spinning out. I was taking a turn at 30km/h. The rear just went out. Until today I still do not know why. My Direzzas were at 50% tread life. All it took was about 1" of water and cold tires.

I was on the freeway going 65km/h in a 90km/h zone. I was in the left lane and there was a very deep puddle about 6-10' long and 4' wide. I couldn't dodge it because there was traffic in the right lane. Everyone had their hazards on and we were all driving slow. I had my RS3s at this time. The freeway was going at a slight bend to the right. I hit that puddle went straight on. I tried to turn a little bit to stop from going into the other lane - I went into the lane going sideways and almost caused a huge accident.

I've learnt my lesson with driving with RS3s and Direzzas during the wet season. I took my RSX off insurance and now its a dedicated track car. I run NT01s for the track and Direzzas to get to the track.

For my TL I just need a comfortable tire that can handle occasional spirited driving. It's a daily driver. This is a TL forum. Most people don't track their cars. If you want to look for opinions on the best dry lapping tire go on another forum.

@ pohljm

You should have skipped the V12s if that is the case. The Direzzas and RS3s > the V12s for dry grip.

I hate cars

Another thing, if you pay any attention to the subjective performance ratings by customers you're wasting your time. I don't get how you can run an extreme summer tire on a slow Fwd RSX and then talk shit about the TL doing the same. I'm assuming all you've drive is FWD cars by your car control skills.

brianch

I've driven more cars than you can count. I work for an automotive journalist company.

Because I track my RSX often and I don't track the TL. I'd assume most people do not track their TLs.

If you want to make a thread about the best track tire go ahead. This thread is about what?

Please leave and go make your own thread about the best track/summer tire for the TL. I am happy to comment on that thread.

Right now we are talking about the best tire for this guy. Not you. Just because you don't care about ride noise, ride comfort, hydroplane resistance, treadwear... has nothing to do with this thread.

brianch

If you really want to start a FWD vs RWD debate on Acurazine go ahead.

Keep in mind every Acura has been FWD.

If you want to get into RWD discussion threads please join me on many of the other discussion boards I am on.

tweeder82o

In places where there's more rain and snow than there are sunny days, adjusting simply means "road rage inducing traffic back-up"

we drive 'normal' or better, unless there's 2 feet of snow or if there's ice. Then we adjust for safety.

so a good summer tire for us means that it won't take 3 times as long to make a trip in the rain than it would in the dry.

brianch

Especially when this thread is not titled

best performance track tire for the TL

I have no idea why you started talking about running Direzzas and RS3s everyday in SOCAL. The original poster is from freaking New England.

It's great that you live in SOCAL. Please stay there. You can keep your strict gun and emission laws too.

I hate cars

The OP said he's looking for a summer only tire due to the great weather where he lives. He said he wants an "aggressive" tire. He also wants a good performance/quality ratio and the RS3 is $200 cheaper per set. He also wants an aggressive tire that will last but that's not possible so I recommended a few tires that met his needs with the RS3 being the best of the bunch.

I regularly visit other forums more focused on racing and you find many people who use the same tires for the track and street and many of those run the RS3. I'm currently on the NT05 and really like them. I was also told they suck in the rain and I've never had a better tire in the rain. So much for the Internet know it alls. I want a little more grip and I hear the RS3s have slightly better grip with a easily controlable break away so I'm going to try them. I also have braking distances and g force measurements so I can directly compare the two tires.

You can make excuses all you want but if the rear end got away from you, it's your fault. How is it that I can drive a 600whp car in the rain on bald BFG Drag Radials with a lot of slipping and sliding but no loss of control and you can't hang onto a full tread depth street tire on a FWD car? You were either screwing around, not paying attention, or you need a good driving school.

pohljm

OP requested extreme summer tires and thats what is being discussed! I drive alot of miles so wanted a bit better treadwear so the V12's are perfect. Dont get butthurt cuz the weather sucks where you live along with your health care. And i have only spun once in my old chevy 350 powered Scarab and i was screwing around. Adjust your driving to the conditions.

I hate cars

If you think the Star Specs and RS3s are track tires I don't know how to help you. They are street tires that will do ok on the track.

I know its hard to do but try to stay on track, this gun law, emission law, FWD vs RWD, SoCal vs Canada is your attempt to switch topics.

brianch

maybe because you live in SOCAL and I don't.

Does it get down to 0 degrees in SOCAL? Does it flood in socal? Does the OP live in SOCAL? Didn't think so. Stay in SOCAL bud. Lets not even get started man. You drive an automatic TL and a grand national - do those things even turn?


Go with the RS3s you won't be dissapointed. They are awesome on the track. Having a long lasting summer tire is possible. The Super Sports genuinely last long. hit up e90post. Lots of supersport owners there and they all agree it lasts longer than the Direzzas.

For your use I would recommend the RS3s. For the OP I would not. I still recommend the Super Sports - especially if its just a daily driver and you live in New England.

In case you didn't know the new batch of RS3s have been labelled 200 treadwear (use to be 140) no changes are being made to the compound or construction, its the same tire. Hankook just reevaluated the tire and based on data they bumped up the rating.

I think if you do not care about treadwear, wet performance, and comfort or noise - if you want a tire that has very good dry performance and comes in at an awesome price look to the Nitto NT01s.
So you admit tread wear is a factor. To me the Super Sports are just a better/more expensive V12. I was originally going to get the V12s for the TL but changed my mind.

brianch

If you want to keep on topic stop talking about what tires you want and help the OP with choosing tires.
So lets find him a tire that has a

• good money to quality ratio - but willing to spend good $ on the best tires for his needs
• good ride quality
• low profile
• long lasting treadwear
• aggressive tire

I recommend the Michelin Pilot Super Sports because they fit the description close. Only disadvantage is that they are expensive.

The RS3s and Direzzas do not last long at all - in no standard do they do. They have terrible ride quality. So I do not recommend them.

Hey Look! TireRack agrees with me

To the OP - just >google< rs3 vs pilot super sport if you are confused.

This comment on one of the motortrend articles supports how I feel about the PSS as a great summer daily driver tire.

I hate cars

I forgot to hit submit the other day so what the hell:

I've got an idea, let's keep it on topic by NOT bringing up gun law, emission law, FWD vs RWD, SoCal vs Canada, how about you at least keep it on the topic of tires. The OP has plenty information, he can make his own choice, I'll continue telling you why you're wrong.
And they get out cornered, out stopped, and out priced by the other tires. The things that matter most *unless you intend to drive them in flooded areas or blizzards* you seem to leave out every time just like you left out in your original post.
Neither do the Michelins. They will likely go a few more miles than the other two but you're fooling yourself if you think there's much of a difference.
Well then, it must be true. Aren't you the same guy using the car they came OEM on as a reason to buy them lol. It's very surprising Tire Rack recomends the more expensive tire.


From the first thing that popped up on your Google search in the context of PSS vs RS3:

RS3's are the absolute most grippy 140+ tread wear tire available for hot and dry conditions, period. for autocross in the south, they are the best truly street-able tire you can get. THey should be on average about 1-1.5 seconds faster per 60 seconds of autos course. Driving 1000-1500 miles a month, plus 2 autox's per month on and S2000 with a really aggressive alignment got about 4-6 months out of a set. so about 6000 miles and about 10 autos events on a tire eating alignment.

the PSS is not very well suited to autos duty, if you want something a little longer lasting but still very fast on an autos course, I recommend the Dunlop Direzza Star Spec, better in the rain and cool than the RS3, longer lasting too, and almost as fast in the hot/dry, price is slightly above the RS3 and well below the PSS.


Do you really want to get in a who can find the most positive quotes on each tire?

Are you jealous. You've already said SoCal 10 times. I'm closer to central cal but it's really irrelevant.
Yes, it floods in some areas. My automatic TL turns just fine. If you're ever in CA, hit me up, I'll be glad to show you my tail lights at Willow. The GN turns just fine but it's a drag car so I'm not sure why you're bringing it up. You would kill yourself in under a minute in it anyway, we all know how good your car control skills are and this is a (gasp) RWD car, way beyond your driving ability. I thought you were all about staying on topic???

I have some pretty cool friends. I've driven just a few laps in some extremely fast machinery over the years.
I know I won't. They fit my needs very well. It's not likely my TL will ever see the track again unless you happen to be in the area but I will enjoy the added safety of shorter stopping distances and better cornering.
Again, he said SUMMERS. No 0F weather or floods.
Doesn't make a whole lot of difference to me, they will probably start cracking before I ever wear them out.
I've driven on the NT01 and you can hardly carry a conversation in the car, they should not be in the same comparison. Wet performance is similar to a Drag Radial, not safe for most people in the rain. You can't compare an R compound to a full tread street tire. The RS3, The PSS, and the Star Specs are more similar to each other than any of them are to the NT01 and other R compounds. Good try and hiding facts and trying to confuse people.

FWIW your precious Tire Rack gave the RS3s an excellent wet traction rating. The tire's UTQG is AA, the highest a tire can score in wet traction, given by the NHTSA, not the manufacturer or retailer. Is the PSS better in wet traction, probably. Is the RS3 this super dangerous tire that's going to spin out if you're going the speed limit, absolutely not, it's as good as most other tires and better than some in the rain. If racing in the rain is your thing, go for the PSS. If you like to go fast when it's dry and you drive normal in the wet, and you're not prone to spinning out with a single drop of rain, get the RS3.

creme

Really dude? You're on ACURAZINE.. a forum dedicated to ACURA. Why are you even on this forum? ..oh right you drive an automatic TL... HAHA

brianch

Fine lets stay as on topic as possible

You speak of the RS3s like they are the best tires ever invented in the world. Well sorry they aren't... Everyone has their own requirements when purchasing tires. Dry grip is only one aspect of a tire.

All of the tires in this class are very respectable tires and are already better than most of the tires out in the market. You can not go wrong with any of them.

There is not such thing as one tire is better than the other. You look at the pros and cons of each tire and you choose based on your preferences and needs.

If you think the RS3s are the best summer tires for the Acura TL that is good for you. Personally I think the PSS are the best summer tires for the Acura TL. Everyone has their own opinion. Both of these tires are already big overkill on a daily driver FWD sedan. I have all seasons on them now and they are fine for the street. I only wanted to get the PSS so I can run a few AutoX or track events when I feel like it. The truth is that the ride quality on all of these extreme performance tires won't be as good as regular all season or regular summer tires. They also create more noise and do not last as long.

If you just want decent summer tires with better grip vs oem you don't have to jump all the way to the RS3/Direzza category. There are other tires out there that will offer OEM like ride quality and noise with better dry and wet grip.

It is up to the one who is buying anyways. If you like the RS3s buy them. I've had them they are great tires. I just didn't like the cons (yes there are cons - its not a tire made by god). I like the pros that the PSS can offer on a car like the TL. The RS3s or Direzzas would be a great choice if I only cared about dry grip but the truth is that on a daily driver I care about many other things. I think the PSS is the most well balanced tire considering all the aspects of a good tire (in this category).

I recommended the NT01s to you because it seems like you already have NT05s and you enjoy them. From our conversation it also seems like you don't care about ride comfort, road noise, or wet grip. So why not just get the NT01? But it's up to you. If I didn't care about any of those and just wanted tons of dry grip for whatever reason I'd just get an R comp. I would not recommend the NT01 for anyone for street use - except you. From the sounds of it you seem like a hardcore kind of guy. I mean you are buying RS3s for a Acura TL. You seem to speak highly of your track capabilities which would mean you attend Willow often. And you drive a high powered RWD drag car as a daily driver. Practicality seems to be low in your transportation priorities.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

everything is opinions anyway.

simply put; try any tire that you desire.
see if you like it.
after these direzza's are done, i might try a different tire. or my go back to the NT05s
it all comes down to is personal preference

NBP04TL4ME

FWIW - I too live in New England and have the Super Sports and love them. Haven't had any issues in the rain, but you also need to drive a little differently in the rain, no? My absolute favorite Summer tire was the Goodyear Eagle F1 GS-D3, but they are no longer available. I had Michelin Pilots prior to the Super Sports and think the Super Sports are better, but not sure they are better than the Goodyears.

pohljm

HAHAHA love the <3 Brianch..........got the GF backing you up! what a give away!

guitarplayer16

iTrader: (8)

Great info - I'm in the market for summer tires too.

tweeder82o

I have been as well.

But alas, we both know that it's really not quite summer yet

I hate cars

Uh, probably because I own an Acura. I know it's slow. I don't get some thrill out of a manual TL when my other street car is 5 seconds quicker in the 1/4. I've road raced a couple 1000+hp manuals. I used to drive a manual as a daily. That's not going to happen when there's only 258hp available going through the front wheels. The fun factor does not outweigh the inconvenience factor. You will know what I mean one day if you ever drive something fast.

Note to Honduh fanboi, a manual doesn't make the car or the driver. The car control comment is something I've witnessed over and over again. You FWD guys aren't used to sliding and when it happens you are just along for the ride, you have no control.

That wasn't the point anyway. I was pointing to the hypocrisy of your boyfriend's previous post. Somehow it's ok for an RSX to use an extreme summer tire but not the TL.

Why don't you post up your location and the car you drive. Both of you guys have an open invitation to race my slow automatic TL.

I hate cars

If we're attempting to be civil, I'll respond halfway serious.

Practicality is very big. My drag car was an exercise in how much power I can get out of a small engine and not lose any daily drivability. There are many things I could've done different and made more power more cheaply. I could get another 100hp out of it easily with a bigger turbo and bigger cam but it had to sound and drive like a stock one. At one point I had to make a decision to run slicks on the street and I do most of the time, especially on the weekends. I hate it and I feel like I failed but spinning the tires is just wasting hp. One of the last races I ever got in was with a new at the time ZR1 and at that time I was extremely happy to have those tires.

The RS3 is practical to someone like me who drives 3 miles round trip to work. The tires would crack from age before they wear out. It rarely ever rains. If it can stop quicker and corner better, it's also safer in the dry which is a big part of why I want to run them. When I actually drive my car all the way into work, it's a very deadly highway and every single day there's a close call. Imagine a 2 lane highway that's bumper to bumper full of oil field workers, most of which are felons (that's a story in itself) trying to save .0005 seconds by passing on a highway that's backed up for 40 miles anyway. That's what I have to deal with. I can't leave a lot of following distance because people will start trying to squeeze in. I've been very thankful I have the NT05s on there several times even though one of the biggest dangers is the overloaded welding truck barreling up on me with the brakes locked. I had a chick pull out in front of me while I was doing 50mph and I swerved as hard as I possibly could, wrinkling the leather on the steering wheel. We literally swapped paint from her front bumper to the side of my front bumper. No actual damage other than her paint on mine that I buffed off. I was on the NT05s at the time. The point being it's not just about squeezing every bit of performance out of the TL, it's about safety as well. It may sound a bit paranoid but when you're avoiding a potential serious wreck by inches it's hard to not go with the best performing tire even on a TL.

If you're an automotive journalist you know that tires are the single biggest improvement you can make in handling and braking. You may not get the dynamics, balance, and feel that the suspension, and low cg, will give but as far as raw numbers like skidpad and braking they will put the car into supercar territory (which doesn't mean it will get around the track as quick as a supercar). I can't remember what mine stopped in but it's on here somewhere. 91' I believe was the best from 60mph but I might be wrong, I'll have to look it up.

My biggest problem with what you said, the thing that started this whole thing was leaving out the raw numbers; the braking and skidpad numbers that showed the RS3 to be the best. Second was acting as if the RS3 can't be driven in the rain. Why not present ALL information and let the OP decide. I know what bad rain tires are, I've driven wrinkle wall slicks in the rain and in one case I could literally push the rear of the car sideways down the crown of the road with my body weight. The RS3 has 9/32nds tread depth so while you probably don't want to push the limits in the rain, it's not a rolling death trap.

I fully understand the RS3 is not the best tire period. It was one of several tires I suggested. I saw "summer tire" and immediately thought the OP wanted something that would kick ass in the dry and warm weather. Later I checked out his climate and it looks like 80s and 1-2" of rain a month is normal for that place and I was starting to second guess the RS3 for him. Maybe the PSS is the better tire for the OP but when you left out some important facts it rubbed me the wrong way and started this whole thing. You came across as disrespectful to a well respected member when you did so.

I haven't even run the RS3 yet, I have no idea how it's going to perform and I certainly have no loyalty to it lol. I might hate it for all I know, I'm just going off of braking and skidpad numbers and subjective reviews by some of the SCCA guys. I love the NT05 but I'm on my 3rd or 4th set and I'm getting bored so I looked around for something similar but possibly better in dry performance.

Part of the reason I don't run the NT01 is because the noise is unbearable and I have $10k into a sound quality audio system. The other is that they require too much heat to become effective. The tire's potential is irrelevant when it never gets up to an effective temperature under street conditions. I've had problems with the NT05 in some instances going full lock sideways at 50mph around corners I can normally take even quicker because I forgot that they weren't warmed up. I know now in the winter months to take it easy until they have a little heat in them. Maybe that's why mine have the best grip around 33psi, the additional heat may be what's helping me more than the shape of the contact patch from varying pressures.

To tell you the truth I'm a little worried about the RS3s being effective on the street, at least in the colder months but time will tell.

So yeah, I don't think any of those tires are the best for everything and most people will never know the difference between any of them. Most people determine a tire's effectiveness by taking a 25mph on ramp at 40mph, never getting close to it's limit. Just like they determine a suspension's worthiness by the amount of body roll it has despite the fact the rear is on it's bumpstops and it's going to spin the first time you attempt to corner as fast as it was capable of cornering when stock. It's similar to the common comment when they barely avoid an accident and go thank God I have the Brembos when the Brembos don't stop the car any quicker than the base brakes.

One thing I don't know if I mentioned is several people said the RS3's break away is really predictable and that's important on the street.

I have the braking and skidpad numbers from my car on the NT05s, a large average. I'll do the same thing for the RS3s on the same stretch of asphalt. I'll probably never take the TL to the track again because it's getting older and I need to depend on it for another few years. I've been buying things like guns instead of another car payment, before they pass more crazy gun laws as you mention and I have a few more things to buy so reliability is important right now and the track is hard on every part of the car.

For what it's worth, my GN is down. In fact, I made the decision to pull the engine probably next weekend and throw some bearings at it and begin with a few new parts including a promising new engine management that remains in closed loop at full throttle. I may even buy a 2014 GN which will be the same year my current one turns 30 so I want it to be perfect meaning it will be down even longer. The point being if I have to get my automotive thrills from having sticky tires on a TL, that's what I'm going to do.

cokorote

iTrader: (1)

LOL all those fight.

I live in Miami and hardly seen the rain and I still choose PSS for many reason they cover my need and my preference. Ride quality, grip ,sound, threads wear (basically all around). Not the best tire in the market but its still enough for me since the TL is cruise car (avg 110 miles daily).

To the OP re-read the justnspace comment

4drviper

NSX :p



thanks for the good read both of you. It helped.

DefkevsAU7

My tls came with goodyear eagle gt's and couldn't be happier. Really taylors to the car well. I used to clinch every time I saw a big ass puddle on the hwy with my potenza's (my car would dance a little bit) but with these it just rips right threw and on dry it really hugs the road.

4drviper

Reading all that, NT05 wears too quick, DW is too softy softy, I'm trying out new cooper RS3-S
Cooper has been shitty but all these new tests

http://www.motortrend.com/features/c...ires_zeon_rs3/

http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2...re-review.html

http://www.golfmk6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=38160

Honestly I don't care if they're not as good as the reviews.
$440 shipped and $80 rebate ... lol.

arriving next week! excited.
Downside of RS3-S : it says MADE IN CHINA on the sidewall... .lol

Schiernbeck

I went with the Michelins for my new rims. I had luck with the 17" ones that I had so the 19" ones should be just as good.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

^wow, that told us a lot.

aIRpeACE

iTrader: (2)

Contin DW