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iTrader: (1)

Hi,
I am not sure if this should go to the performance section or not.
But I was wondering if a 6MT (20mm) rear sway bar would help on a 5AT TL (17mm).
The difference between 2 bars is 3MM.

Would this be a good mod instead of replacing it with either comptech (22mm) or Progress (24mm)??

I've heard stories about oversteering in wet condition with the bar being too thick.
Will a 6MT TL (20mm) make a different in handling on a 5AT TL??

Any suggestion would be apprieciated.
Thanks.

Bearcat94

You've "heard stories"???

I read ONE post by ONE person that said that. I PM'd him for more info and he decided that maybe it was road conditions and his driving.



As far as your original question - I've been wondering the same thing. I have a 20mm sitting around doing nothing and wondered if it had any $$ value to a base model driver.

My guess is that you'd get some improvment, but probably not as dramatic as the MT and TL-S drivers going up to the Comptech or Progress.

I looked the Stock 20mm RSB up and it's only $40 or so including new bushings, bolts and brakets.

enigmaos

iTrader: (4)

^ some improvement. not as much as CT and Progress.

3mm = 0.118 inch.

ballinfizzle89

iTrader: (6)

I got my TLS RSB for free from a member on here and I slapped it on just for kicks. To be honest, idk if I can feel the difference or it's just in my head but long ramps are definitely alot more enjoyable to drive through and the car does seem to be a bit more stable. I put 'em in a few days before springs so I cant really say.

My opinion-If you get it for less than 15-20, do it. Or else just get the progress 24mm.


EDIT-Compared to the 5AT RSB, the TLS RSB seems alot thicker and durable.

lights

iTrader: (1)

the bolts and brackets can be reused on the 5AT.
new bushings are needed.

wondering if I should go that route....

ttribe

If you're already willing to be under there yanking out one swaybar in favor of another, why not go for a more dramatic performance improvement by putting in the Comptech or Progress bar? Neither is particularly expensive (less than $200 US) and really will make a significant difference on a 5AT. Speaking from experience, I upgraded the swaybar on my 5AT after about 5 months of ownership and feel like the thicker bar actually made my car MORE stable, not less (as is suggested by the "oversteer rumors" you alluded to).

cristphoto

I put the 6-speed rear bar on my 06 auto TL. It cost $50 from H and A (website dealer)with all bushings and brackets. I installed it myself and it took less than 1 hour which includes getting out the tools, jacking the car, and reading instructions and taking my time doing it right. I think it was money well spent as the handling has definately improved. Maybe not as much as the third party larger bars but improvement nonetheless. There are numerous write-ups on this site explaining in detail how to install them. It's easy.

Xpditor

If I remember correctly, the 5AT RSB is hollow and the 6MT is solid.... besides the diameter difference.

I'll try to verify that if I can find it.

Bearcat94

Here's what I found, and you are correct.

Stabilizer Bars:

TL

Front: 27.2 mm diameter, 5 mm wall thickness

Rear: 18.3 mm diameter, 7.5 mm wall thickness



TL-S:

Front: 27 mm diameter, solid

Rear: 20 mm diameter, solid



http://www.hondanews.com/categories/733/releases/4208

Xpditor

I just retrieved that as well:

Front: 27.2 mm diameter, 5.0 mm wall thickness | BASE
Rear: 18.3 mm diameter, 3.0 mm wall thickness | BASE
Front: 27.0 mm diameter, solid | TYPE–S
Rear: 20.0 mm diameter, solid | TYPE–S

However, we are speaking (2008) of differences between Base Model and Type-S.

Before Type-S came out, I believe the same difference existed between Base and A-Spec or auto and manual....

princelybug

iTrader: (16)

Why not do it right the first time?

Bearcat94

'04 - '06 AT:
Rear: 17.0 mm diameter, solid


'04 - '06 MT:
Rear: 20 mm diameter, solid


http://www.hondanews.com/categories/...1?archive=2005 (this is 2005, I checked the 2004 and 2006 spec and they are also 17mm AT; 20mm MT.)

So I guess the "softer" '07/'08 base suspension included a change to the RSB.

ThisIsBS

i bought the progress sway bar on ebay for 140 shipped.

Xpditor

Here is what they say about the changes made on the 2007 TL:

Acura Media Newsroom

Noteworthy TL chassis enhancements include:

* Suspension tuning to enhance ride comfort while maintaining handling performance
* Front spring rates reduced by 7 percent from 2006 TL
* Shock absorbers and compliance bushing retuned for ride comfort
* Thicker hollow front anti-roll bar and new larger diameter hollow rear anti-roll bar
* New rear subframe bushings for reduced NVH
* Stiffer 17 x 8-inch aluminum-alloy wheels that result in less road noise
* Underbody brake strake to reduce brake fade

Features exclusive to the TL Type-S include:

* Increased damping rates for superior handling
* Rear spring rate increased
* A solid front anti-roll bar and thicker rear anti-roll bar
* Damper mount stiffness increased 400 percent for enhanced response and feel
* Exclusive master cylinder for enhanced brake feel
* Brembo 4-piston front brake calipers
* Available 235/45R17 Bridgestone Potenza RE 030 high-performance "summer" tires on automatic and manual transmission models.

More..... (same source)

REAR SUSPENSION

The TL rear suspension is a 5-link independent system with struts and coil springs. It mounts to a steel subframe to improve road isolation and provide a quiet interior. The rear suspension geometry adds "toe-in" when the suspension is compressed, improving handling stability over bumps and during hard cornering and braking.

A stabilizer bar further improves handling precision by limiting body roll, while a special "pillow joint" for the lateral links improves camber rigidity. Rubber shims on the leading and trailing arm bushings improve ride comfort.

As on the front suspension, the rear suspension has been specially retuned on both the TL and TL Type-S. The TL has unique shock valving for improved ride comfort. The rear anti-roll bar has been changed from a solid 17 mm bar on the 2006 model to a hollow 18.3 mm bar. This reduces weight without sacrificing roll stiffness.

Type-S suspension settings are tuned for performance. Although the automatic and manual transmission Type-S models have the same suspension settings, the rear spring rate has been increased 33 percent on vehicles equipped with a manual transmission, 14 percent on vehicles mated with automatic transmissions. The solid rear anti-roll bar has increased in size from 17 mm on the 2006 model to 20 mm for 2007 on cars with an automatic transmission. This results in much greater roll stiffness in the rear, allowing for better balance and control.

Bearcat94

I don't get what they are saying here.

Are they saying the TL-S 6 MT has stiffer spings than the TL-S 5 AT? (thats what is sounds like they are saying.)

Or

Are they saying the TL-S has 14% stiffer spring than previous AT and 33% stiffer than previous MT's?



Neither one of those makes sense.

The 5AT and 6MT TL-S have the same parts listed for rear shocks and springs. (I assume the parts lists are correct). So both *should* have the same spring rates.



And, Everybody "knows" the previous MT's were firmer than the previous AT's, sot the 14% and 33% are either backward or refer to something else.

:scratcheshead:

S PAW 1

^
The weight bias/transfer is slightly more balanced on the 6MT, and the 5AT is a little heavier. I would think the spring rate adjustment is due to that.
For the '07:
TL 5AT:61.6%/38.4% F/R
Type S 5AT:61.5/38.6
Type S 6MT:60.0/40.0

Curb weight:
TL: 3636 lb
TL-S 5AT:3674
TL-S 6MT:3559

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but the "rate" does not mean the same as "stiffness", it has to do with "rebound".
As the spring rate increases, so does the rebound.

Bearcat94

True. Rate is more like Pounds required to get 1" of spring compression.

I thought about the weight difference. What I don't get is how are the spring rates different (TL-S MT vs TL-S AT) if they are the same part numbers?

Bearcat94

True. Rate is more like Pounds required per 1" of spring compression.

I thought about the weight difference. What I don't get is how are the spring rates different (TL-S MT vs TL-S AT) if they are the same part numbers?

Xpditor

As we are getting pretty technical about springs, swaybars, and other suspension components, I will move this thread to the apropriate forum where we may get more participation.