2004 TL: bouncy, bouncy
11-09-2006, 12:35 AM
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2004 TL: bouncy, bouncy
I was hoping this thread would help me identify what I am noticing in my TL's ride.
I have a new (used 2004) TL and I most certainly spent some time test driving and had it examined by my mechanic....everything was copecetic. One week of driving now and the car just starts bouncing, even on seemingly newly paved roads. Its not a bounce like a tight suspension "feeling the bumps in the road," but a persistent undulating, rolling bounce that seems to escalate despite the road condition. It reminds me of a "standing wave" where once a particular resonance is hit, the waves become pronounced and harmonic. It becomes nauseating, like feeling seasick, only I don't typically get motion sick easily.
I have tried to search and read other threads but anyone else who "complained" about the ride was essentially told the to "deal with it." or "go buy something else." Now I can't attest to what anyone else feels in their ride, but I've driven enough to know that something is odd at least, wrong at worst. Hopefully, there is someone who has some insight. I read about the "vibration" problem, however, even those incidents (which there are many) seem to describe something different.
Of course, my TL still has some warranty, but I worry that the dealer will simply say "That's just the way it is." Fortunately, from previous experience, the dealers often don't take the time and effort needed to replicate some issues and insist that there is no problem (it took a 4 visits, $1000 in 'maintanence,"and the transmission to finally fall-out before they would believe me that the gears were slipping out after an hour of driving on my old Accord).
Any ammunition and support I can get will help me explain the issue to the service manager?
I have a new (used 2004) TL and I most certainly spent some time test driving and had it examined by my mechanic....everything was copecetic. One week of driving now and the car just starts bouncing, even on seemingly newly paved roads. Its not a bounce like a tight suspension "feeling the bumps in the road," but a persistent undulating, rolling bounce that seems to escalate despite the road condition. It reminds me of a "standing wave" where once a particular resonance is hit, the waves become pronounced and harmonic. It becomes nauseating, like feeling seasick, only I don't typically get motion sick easily.
I have tried to search and read other threads but anyone else who "complained" about the ride was essentially told the to "deal with it." or "go buy something else." Now I can't attest to what anyone else feels in their ride, but I've driven enough to know that something is odd at least, wrong at worst. Hopefully, there is someone who has some insight. I read about the "vibration" problem, however, even those incidents (which there are many) seem to describe something different.
Of course, my TL still has some warranty, but I worry that the dealer will simply say "That's just the way it is." Fortunately, from previous experience, the dealers often don't take the time and effort needed to replicate some issues and insist that there is no problem (it took a 4 visits, $1000 in 'maintanence,"and the transmission to finally fall-out before they would believe me that the gears were slipping out after an hour of driving on my old Accord).
Any ammunition and support I can get will help me explain the issue to the service manager?
11-09-2006, 12:05 PM
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Sounds like a blown shock...removing the wheel and examining the shock body should reveal that it's coated with oil. Leaves little to argue with the dealer about...they should warranty it.
11-09-2006, 12:50 PM
#4
I experienced this when I was looking for my '05 TL last year.
I took a test drive in a brand new '05 TL (less than 10 miles on it) for about 45 minutes and it felt perfectly fine on backroads and under 40 mph. As soon as I took it on the highway and was traveling at 60mph or so, the back end started to gently oscillate up and down. It was definitely speed specific.
When I returned to the dealership I told the salesman about it. I almost didn't purchase a TL until I tried another '05 at another dealer. This one was perfect and I ultimately purchased it.
My guess is that it may have had something to do with the wheels. Specifically how they are centered on the hub. I believe that these are hub centric wheels, which means that they center themselves as they are torqued down. If your dealer can put your car on a rack and loosen and then retorque the wheels in a star pattern, that could solve it.
Also most dealers that install the locking/security nuts on the wheels only remove one nut on the wheel and then put on the locking nut. Rather than retorque the wheel correctly.
I took a test drive in a brand new '05 TL (less than 10 miles on it) for about 45 minutes and it felt perfectly fine on backroads and under 40 mph. As soon as I took it on the highway and was traveling at 60mph or so, the back end started to gently oscillate up and down. It was definitely speed specific.
When I returned to the dealership I told the salesman about it. I almost didn't purchase a TL until I tried another '05 at another dealer. This one was perfect and I ultimately purchased it.
My guess is that it may have had something to do with the wheels. Specifically how they are centered on the hub. I believe that these are hub centric wheels, which means that they center themselves as they are torqued down. If your dealer can put your car on a rack and loosen and then retorque the wheels in a star pattern, that could solve it.
Also most dealers that install the locking/security nuts on the wheels only remove one nut on the wheel and then put on the locking nut. Rather than retorque the wheel correctly.
11-09-2006, 03:45 PM
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Simplest answer: tire tread/sidewall problem. I had this happen with my prior V-6 Camry, where a bad rear tire (internal separation problem) caused odd wear and incredible undulation/oscillation of the rear end within a few hundred miles.
A new tire made the car handle as good as new, which in a Camry ain't all that great anyway, but that's another story....
A new tire made the car handle as good as new, which in a Camry ain't all that great anyway, but that's another story....
11-09-2006, 03:59 PM
#6
05/5AT/Navi/ABP/Quartz
Try to figure when you can duplicate the problem. Call service department and tell them you need someone to road test the car with you when you bring it in to show them what it is doing. If you get them to agree that it's a problem, they can then fix it.
Originally Posted by soniqfreq
I was hoping this thread would help me identify what I am noticing in my TL's ride.
I have a new (used 2004) TL and I most certainly spent some time test driving and had it examined by my mechanic....everything was copecetic. One week of driving now and the car just starts bouncing, even on seemingly newly paved roads. Its not a bounce like a tight suspension "feeling the bumps in the road," but a persistent undulating, rolling bounce that seems to escalate despite the road condition. It reminds me of a "standing wave" where once a particular resonance is hit, the waves become pronounced and harmonic. It becomes nauseating, like feeling seasick, only I don't typically get motion sick easily.
I have tried to search and read other threads but anyone else who "complained" about the ride was essentially told the to "deal with it." or "go buy something else." Now I can't attest to what anyone else feels in their ride, but I've driven enough to know that something is odd at least, wrong at worst. Hopefully, there is someone who has some insight. I read about the "vibration" problem, however, even those incidents (which there are many) seem to describe something different.
Of course, my TL still has some warranty, but I worry that the dealer will simply say "That's just the way it is." Fortunately, from previous experience, the dealers often don't take the time and effort needed to replicate some issues and insist that there is no problem (it took a 4 visits, $1000 in 'maintanence,"and the transmission to finally fall-out before they would believe me that the gears were slipping out after an hour of driving on my old Accord).
Any ammunition and support I can get will help me explain the issue to the service manager?
I have a new (used 2004) TL and I most certainly spent some time test driving and had it examined by my mechanic....everything was copecetic. One week of driving now and the car just starts bouncing, even on seemingly newly paved roads. Its not a bounce like a tight suspension "feeling the bumps in the road," but a persistent undulating, rolling bounce that seems to escalate despite the road condition. It reminds me of a "standing wave" where once a particular resonance is hit, the waves become pronounced and harmonic. It becomes nauseating, like feeling seasick, only I don't typically get motion sick easily.
I have tried to search and read other threads but anyone else who "complained" about the ride was essentially told the to "deal with it." or "go buy something else." Now I can't attest to what anyone else feels in their ride, but I've driven enough to know that something is odd at least, wrong at worst. Hopefully, there is someone who has some insight. I read about the "vibration" problem, however, even those incidents (which there are many) seem to describe something different.
Of course, my TL still has some warranty, but I worry that the dealer will simply say "That's just the way it is." Fortunately, from previous experience, the dealers often don't take the time and effort needed to replicate some issues and insist that there is no problem (it took a 4 visits, $1000 in 'maintanence,"and the transmission to finally fall-out before they would believe me that the gears were slipping out after an hour of driving on my old Accord).
Any ammunition and support I can get will help me explain the issue to the service manager?
11-09-2006, 09:45 PM
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Thanks, each of these suggestions are very helpful. It definitely is an up/down movement-almost rolling. And it was most pronounced on a fairly smooth highway (although now I notice it to lesser degrees on various city streets)
The tires are not stock so I don't know how much the dealer will look into it if it is tire related. I will certainly ask them to inspect the shocks, and examine & re-torque the wheels. The car came with new (looking) set of Falken Ziex 512s. With the wheel locks maybe they were just not set correctly.
The tires are not stock so I don't know how much the dealer will look into it if it is tire related. I will certainly ask them to inspect the shocks, and examine & re-torque the wheels. The car came with new (looking) set of Falken Ziex 512s. With the wheel locks maybe they were just not set correctly.
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11-09-2006, 10:47 PM
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Originally Posted by soniqfreq
How do you identify an internal tire/sidewall problem?
One H-rated Bridgestone started to show a "bubble" on the sidewall that a tire shop said was internal belt separation from a manufacturing defect; a different tire on a rear axle showed an unusual wear pattern as well as a slight bubble on the tread/sidewall shoulder.
11-10-2006, 07:59 PM
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I took my TL out for a joy ride with the dealer's service tech. He says it's just the TL ride. The Falken Ziex 512s checked out (had them inspected, balanced, rotated, aligned, and re-torqued correctly-as suggested) and the shocks had no signs of trouble either.
Service guy insists its just the stiffer suspension and "I'll just get used to it." It just doesn't seem taut to me where you feel the road and then move on....but he insists it is just a really crappy freeway.
Thanks for everyone's input, I still plan to enjoy every minute I'm in my new ride. Any recommendations of replacement shocks or better wheels to consider in the future? I'm sure there are plenty of posts on the topic so I'll give the ol' search a go.
Service guy insists its just the stiffer suspension and "I'll just get used to it." It just doesn't seem taut to me where you feel the road and then move on....but he insists it is just a really crappy freeway.
Thanks for everyone's input, I still plan to enjoy every minute I'm in my new ride. Any recommendations of replacement shocks or better wheels to consider in the future? I'm sure there are plenty of posts on the topic so I'll give the ol' search a go.
11-10-2006, 08:22 PM
#14
soniqfreq,
I've heard of 2 ways to "test" shocks.
The first being to push down on the bumper of the car and the car should pretty much stop on the rebound (back to where you started).
The other being that you push down on a bumper (repeatedly) and get the car moving up and down. It should then stop within a cycle of up/down.
With the shocks on the TL I'm wondering if you'll ever get it to move much. <g>
As for a "bad tire" or "bad belt" - from the ones that I've had that were bad, I noticed it mostly at very low speeds and it was more of a side to side shake - made you think of a bent wheel.
From what you describe with the "bouncy bouncy" (assuming up and down) I'd be looking at the shocks. Bad ones won't ALWAYS show leakage - the valving inside can stop working.
Tom
I've heard of 2 ways to "test" shocks.
The first being to push down on the bumper of the car and the car should pretty much stop on the rebound (back to where you started).
The other being that you push down on a bumper (repeatedly) and get the car moving up and down. It should then stop within a cycle of up/down.
With the shocks on the TL I'm wondering if you'll ever get it to move much. <g>
As for a "bad tire" or "bad belt" - from the ones that I've had that were bad, I noticed it mostly at very low speeds and it was more of a side to side shake - made you think of a bent wheel.
From what you describe with the "bouncy bouncy" (assuming up and down) I'd be looking at the shocks. Bad ones won't ALWAYS show leakage - the valving inside can stop working.
Tom
11-11-2006, 09:28 AM
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If you're anywhere near SE PA or central NJ, I'd be happy to take a look for you. My guess is that there is a problem based on your description. Sometimes the techs are lazy...if they don't know the exact problem, they don't get paid to go on fishing expeditions looking for obscure issues. It's easier and more profitable for them to dismiss this issue as normal and work on the next car.
If you can't get a second opinion from this board, I would suggest another dealer, or even an independent mechanic.
If you can't get a second opinion from this board, I would suggest another dealer, or even an independent mechanic.
11-11-2006, 11:32 AM
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Compare with another TL
Originally Posted by RKA
My guess is that there is a problem based on your description....if they don't know the exact problem, they don't get paid to go on fishing expeditions looking for obscure issues.
If you can't get a second opinion from this board, I would suggest another dealer, or even an independent mechanic.
If you can't get a second opinion from this board, I would suggest another dealer, or even an independent mechanic.
Soniqfreq, you should drive another '04-'06 TL- borrowed from the dealer- on the same roads to compare with feel of your car. Your initial description indicates an issue, whether it is a shock, wheel, tire, rear suspension mounts, spring or combination thereof.
Otherwise, advise where you are and there will probably be a couple of us who can lend you a car for a test drive and/or look at your car. I'm in West Los Angeles, California.
11-11-2006, 11:53 PM
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It's great to see the community is behind me when the dealer is not. Thanks for your offer RZA, but I'm in Long Beach, CA. Will P. I might need to take you up on your offer as I'm nearby.
In the meantime, I have a colleague who drives an '06 TL. I'll see if there is a difference. Between an '06 and '04 there really shouldn't be any difference in the ride, correct?
In the meantime, I have a colleague who drives an '06 TL. I'll see if there is a difference. Between an '06 and '04 there really shouldn't be any difference in the ride, correct?
11-12-2006, 03:07 AM
#18
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I drive an 04 TL and work in Long Beach. I would be happy to assist you if you need it. Which dealer you working with (against?)? My car has the ASPEC wheels and aftermarket tires, if that would help for your comparisons. 
11-12-2006, 01:18 PM
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Originally Posted by soniqfreq
...In the meantime, I have a colleague who drives an '06 TL. I'll see if there is a difference. Between an '06 and '04 there really shouldn't be any difference in the ride, correct?
However, you want to drive a model with the same transmission/suspension options as your car. For example, don't compare an A-spec suspension with a regular one. Also, the 6MT has a larger stock anti-sway bar than the 5AT, although that should make no difference driving straight ahead to figure out your car's issue.
If your colleague has same transmission/suspension combo as you, that would be perfect. Code3forJC above mentioned he has A-spec wheels; my '05 is a 5AT with the stock 17" wheels.
G/L, and let us know if there isn't a problem or if you need help.
11-14-2006, 11:02 PM
#20
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ASPEC wheels only!
I do have the A-SPEC wheels and aftermarket tires, but I still have my stock suspension and until next week, I have not had my rear bushings changed per the TSB, so at close to 40,000 miles, I have a well driven vehicle. My offer still stands if you need the comparison. 
11-15-2006, 10:50 PM
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That might be a good fit Code3forJC. One of the issues the dealer (Cerritos Acura , BTW) has is that my tires aren't stock and that puts in the variable that seems to get them off the hook....when in doubt, blame the tires I guess.
I did get a call from the dealer today to follow-up, apparently when the customer service questionaire follow-up call came and I told them i wasn't happy with the outcome, Acura decided they would continue to explore my concerns. They agreed that I could take another car out for a test drive tomorrow. I'll let you know how that goes.
Do you think that the TSB for the rear bushings may actually be the culprit. At first I thought it was different from the "vibration" problem but the more I drive it the bouncing seems more like a shaking and now I'm thinking that this is connected, I'm going to bring the TSB up with the dealer tomorrow. I'll let you know Code3Jc if I still need to enlist you. I truly appreciate your offer and support (ditto-everyone in the community-thanks).
I did get a call from the dealer today to follow-up, apparently when the customer service questionaire follow-up call came and I told them i wasn't happy with the outcome, Acura decided they would continue to explore my concerns. They agreed that I could take another car out for a test drive tomorrow. I'll let you know how that goes.
Do you think that the TSB for the rear bushings may actually be the culprit. At first I thought it was different from the "vibration" problem but the more I drive it the bouncing seems more like a shaking and now I'm thinking that this is connected, I'm going to bring the TSB up with the dealer tomorrow. I'll let you know Code3Jc if I still need to enlist you. I truly appreciate your offer and support (ditto-everyone in the community-thanks).
11-15-2006, 10:56 PM
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BTW...I am noticing now that most of the bouncing does in fact seem to come from the rear wheels when I'm driving out on the roads where the ride feels most abnormal.
01-04-2016, 04:15 PM
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Bouncy Ride
Well, I was searching for another issue on my 2004 Acura TL and stumbled upon this thread.. I know this is an older article and by now you must have identified and fixed the problem, but just in case...
So, the Gen3 Acura, specially the 2004 Year model, has 2 main issues right from the factory.
1. Vibration
2. Bouncy Suspension.
It took Honda a lot of tries to finally make the Vibration go away and the fix was applied in the 2005 Models.
However, there was nothing done about the bouncy suspension.
But it seems "A-spec suspension kit" for the gen3 Acura have seemed to fix the problem. The only downside is $.
So, the Gen3 Acura, specially the 2004 Year model, has 2 main issues right from the factory.
1. Vibration
2. Bouncy Suspension.
It took Honda a lot of tries to finally make the Vibration go away and the fix was applied in the 2005 Models.
However, there was nothing done about the bouncy suspension.
But it seems "A-spec suspension kit" for the gen3 Acura have seemed to fix the problem. The only downside is $.
01-04-2016, 05:27 PM
#27
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I had a lot of vibration with the A-Spec suspension, interesting.
01-05-2016, 05:59 AM
#28
Well, I was searching for another issue on my 2004 Acura TL and stumbled upon this thread.. I know this is an older article and by now you must have identified and fixed the problem, but just in case...
So, the Gen3 Acura, specially the 2004 Year model, has 2 main issues right from the factory.
1. Vibration
2. Bouncy Suspension.
It took Honda a lot of tries to finally make the Vibration go away and the fix was applied in the 2005 Models.
However, there was nothing done about the bouncy suspension.
But it seems "A-spec suspension kit" for the gen3 Acura have seemed to fix the problem. The only downside is $.
So, the Gen3 Acura, specially the 2004 Year model, has 2 main issues right from the factory.
1. Vibration
2. Bouncy Suspension.
It took Honda a lot of tries to finally make the Vibration go away and the fix was applied in the 2005 Models.
However, there was nothing done about the bouncy suspension.
But it seems "A-spec suspension kit" for the gen3 Acura have seemed to fix the problem. The only downside is $.
You're speaking of a car that is going on 12 years old, and don't know where you received that info, but I can assure you that if a new car were to present those problems it wouldn't last very long. Actually, the '04-'06 has the same suspension and some parts are used '04-'08. Our '04 has the factory suspension and it's a far cry from a bouncy suspension and I believe just the opposite as the suspension is tight, almost too tight for what might be considered a high end car, but does wonders for handling. The OEM Michelin tires were soft to help the ride quality, but with the construction of most new tires, they just add to the "hard" suspension. The DWS is soft and this is why a great many people believe the ride is much better when this tire is used, albeit detrimental to handling. Vibrations are annoying and wheel balancing is critical and difficult to get perfect, so a Hunter Road Force is the way to go. I use the wheel hole adapters on my balancer as it does a perfect job.
Maybe you can enlighten us on the '05 fix.
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