01tl4tl

as long as said person was not borrowing YOUR GN at the time~

I hate cars

Only if I had a life insurance policy on him first...

vincethe1

amm, wtf is up ur ass dude?

the reason i said that to them "if i miss shifted, it would show up" is because they, like many of you on here don't beleive me, so that's my proof that i didn't.

2nd, when did i ever ask if my engine will fuck up if i overrevved it??

3rd, how did vsa come into your conversation, and who said i was thinking of crashing it?? i just said i have insurance...same as saying to a cop i don't have insurance cuz i don't plain on crashing try that and see what happens.

4th, you work in the auto industry and you've never seen an engine that wouldn't start? pathetic...

vincethe1

if you can read...at ALL, i didn't go above 4000 rpm, THEN downshift, i only downshifted when i was below that, to make it go above that.

2nd thing, when i shifted to 1st i was already going about 20mph on the highway...traffic here is very bad in las vegas sometimes, to points where you are completely stopped on the highway...

read before you talk shit.

vincethe1

point here is, i have never misshifted/overreved the engine. The most speed the engine has been to is 7000 rpm, which is the limiter.

i've been driving manuals for a long time...the shifter in the TL is so percice that you have to be a complete idiot to misshift it.

the reason i wanted to keep the car going is because my instant reaction was that the fuel was bad (sometimes the water at the bottom on the tank in a gas station can get mixed up with the fuel if they don't let it settle for long enough after they fill it up, that has happened to me before)...so i wanted to keep the engien running to run any water through...that was my first reaction because i didn't know what else it could be.

01tl4tl

to rid the engine of water- which is heavier than gasoline and would sink to the bottem-- you would need to add a fuel stabilizer- seafoam works- or the deicer stuff is fine too- it breaks up the water and lets it pass thru with the gas in small enough amounts that it can be processed.
Just running the engine will not remove gas from the system
the pickup tube is not at the bottem- its a tube that comes down from above and stops slightly above the bottem to avoid crud like that
Thats why of 17.3 gallon capacity- you can only get ~16. 5 in it- it wont pick up the last half gallon.

01tl4tl

Just a what if--- based on others in a similar situation-

you have run it up to exactly 7000-redline- but the guage may be inaccurate- that happens!
and then you lifted a bit to shift, and depress the clutch right?
So if the clutch and gas are not done in perfect timing- you could get a few hundred extra rpm as the clutch engages--freeing the engine-- while you are still lifting- or didnt lift enough---fast enough for the smog controls to allow the engine to decel---- whatever

Thats how it often happens--
the other move is looking for 4th in 3rd gear max rpm and grabbing 2nd-
instant overrev if you dont realize it before the clutch pedal starts to come off the floor....

A note to those who think full rpm is max power- get a dyno run or look at a chart- max torque falls off well below that- and you want to shift so you are on the powerband for the next gear- that usually 500-700 rpm below redline shift points

csmeance

To answer the questions of I hate car's and reply to the other poster:

The information for max speed, max RPM and everything else is stored in the drive-by -wire system from what an acura tech tells me, and as well the navigation system. he said that it can be pulled via the HDS system. Adding to what I said above, it does not matter if you have the navi system or not, drive by wire records it as well. Since it was a loaner, I wouldn't be surprised if they had the mobile guardian system which tracks the car constantly after certain parameters are met, in the case of my MDX, if the car goes outside a certain area, it will alert me. It can be set to alert when speed is exceeded as well.

csmeance

Also please calm down, pointing fingers isn't helping anyone out. Waiting for more information, like oil tests, compression tests, and any other tests/procedures will help us.

vincethe1

i agree

vincethe1

that's why there's a rev limiter though, so unless you downshift at a speed too high for that gear, you can't overrev the engine.

vincethe1

they could have a tracker on them, but they don't...they only told me that they had calls from the public anyways.

i don't see what's their deal with how fast you drive their loaners though...they just didn't want me in 1 (i'm under 25), if they did care about what ppl do to their loaners, then they would have those trackers, and we would be warned.

i don't care about the loaner anymore, they say it's a privalage and they don't have to give me a reason of why i shudn't have one....and i can understand that, but then again they can understand that i will be their customer no longer if they wanna do that....

sales at that dealer are nice ppl overall and i liked buying my car from them, but the service was never good from my experience, so it sucks that sales have to suffer from service. I was just thinking of trading my car in, and after it is fixed...i probably will, but not there.

01tl4tl

wanna bet the rev limiter can be fooled when shifting gears?

SporkLover

The limiter cuts fuel and spark..... does not affect momentum....

SporkLover

What's the story? Are you covered? Hopefully things are going well for you with this.

SporkLover

So is the car fixed?

bmaczo6

iTrader: (1)

He is right about this one. You cannot over-rev an engine while upshifting.

The only way to over-rev the engine is to do it mechanically and that is to downshift to a gear too low for the speed being traveled such as trying to go from 3 to 4th at high rpm's and finding 2nd instead.

bmaczo6

iTrader: (1)

I'll take that bet. Let's make it very large so I can pay off my house.

People miss shifts all the time when shifting gears and the rev limiter prevents any damage being done to the engine. If the rev limiter is working correctly it cannot be fooled!

I hate cars

I think we agree here but just to clarify...

The revlimiter reacts nearly instantly. You can stick the pedal to the floor in neutral and it won't overrev. You can miss a gear and it won't overrev.

But if you accidentally downshift to too low of a gear the engine will overrev. The limiter reacts by cutting fuel and spark but that's all it can do. The engine is essentially off but it's still overrevving.

I had a retarded friend that liked to "powershift" leaving the gas on the floor while shifting. Only problem was, he was too big, clumsy, and slow to shift fast so his powershifting consisted of hitting the revlimiter in between every shift.

Dads05TL

This is from pg 188 of the 05 TL Owners Manual...

The engine can be damaged if
you inadvertently downshift into the
wrong gear (for example, going from
third gear at high rpms to second gear
instead of upshifting to fourth gear; the
engine speed limiter will not work in this
situation).

I hate cars

Exactly. FWIW, the revlimiter does kick in, in that situation. The fuel and spark are cut but it will still mechanically overrev.

SporkLover

So does this mean our OP over revved and wasn't covered....?

01tl4tl

Going into 1st gear at 20 mph may have had something to do with his problem- IMO
Havnt heard anything lately about this...

Tripnbeats

did the guy over rev or not....if hes saying no he didnt...and they pull it from the system and it says he went above 7k then yea he over revved.....but they obviously dont even know what the story is because they gave him a diesel story....an over rev story, and bad valves and compression....all theories... u ask me? id have my lawyer intervene simply because they cant get their shit straight and see how fast they turn around and fix ur car under warranty because they're a bunch of dicks and they know it.

RACINGHART03

iTrader: (2)

Missed shift, piston kissed the valve and tweaked it. I have seen it a dozen times along with the "I was just driving along and.." story. If the timing marks are on (which I would bet they are) then give it up. I have been down this road before. No offense to be taken but in all my years with Acura I have had ONE person own up to the missed shift. They got it taken care of under warranty as a goodwill gesture. Honesty is the best policy. All the others paid. And yes Acura people are on this forum.

I hate cars

That's pretty much what I've been saying. There's absolutely no doubt the valves are bent according to his symptoms. I threw out that the only way this happened without overreving would be if it jumped time which is next to impossible. Pretty clear cut.

vincethe1

Long story short, the assholes at Acura Of Las Vegas didn’t do anything about my car for over 2 months, and after talking to Honda America and not getting anything but “We trust our Certified Technicians”, they went from diesel to overrevving to abuse and to what not other theories but did nothing to try and fix the car, so I decided to tow it to my home where me and my father decided to do a little investigation of our own.

We checked the timing and that was in check, we took out the spark plugs and sure enough, they were very dirty…then we looked through the spark plug holes into the cylinders and didn’t see any visual damage or anything wrong with the valves, so we changed out the spark plugs for some new ones and after a few long cranks, the engine finally started.

It was idling rough at times, then kind of smoothens out a little, and back to rough…you had to keep on the throttle because otherwise it would die out at idle…especially with the A/C compressor engaged. We then wrote a letter to Honda and towed it to the only other Acura dealership in town, Findlay Acura. They had the engine apart the very next day, now that’s what I call customer service .

As it turns out, the cylinder walls were badly scratched on the front bank, the rear 3 were perfect. They haven’t given me a reason yet as to why it happened, and they never may, but my guess is it’s either one of two things, one is that they could of mismatched the piston rings at the factory...(i.e. they put 3.5L rings in there because of some confusion or mislabeling), or somehow an oil path clogged and didn’t deliver enough or if any oil to the front 3 cylinders.

Whatever it was they replaced my block with everything in it (Crankshaft, Rods, Pistons, Rings) and used my old heads with the old valves in them. So no I didn’t overrev it. (I could have told you that but you wouldn’t have believed me ).

It’s running fine now and will hopefully stay that way because I don’t want to go through that ordeal again

Marc08EX

under warranty?

Trew

iTrader: (1)

Glad to hear it worked out for you. I'm assuming all this was done under warranty?

Let this be a sign that you should treat your TL with more TLC. You came very close to having to pay for that repair yourself.

Can someone tell me how over revving your engine can cause valves to kiss with the pistons?

Is the TL an interference engine?

vincethe1

Thanx, yes it was under warranty because it was definatly nothing i could have done to cause this, so it wasn't my fault.

I do take care of my car, but more TLC wouldn't have helped me in this case...mabe if i drove it slower it would of given me a few extra thousand miles or so but with that problem it would have failed eventually.


Overrevving can cause the valves to hit the pistons when the engine's rpm becomes so great that the exhaust valve does not have enough time to close due to the spring not being strong enough to pull it back that fast. If the valve is not closed by the time the piston reaches TDC, it will get hit by the piston, so yes, the J32 is an interferance engine.

Here's a simple illustration but it gives you the idea:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...oke-Engine.gif

the exhaust valve is on the left, see how close it comes to the piston hitting it before it goes back? If it can't go back fast enough it will get hit.

Trew

iTrader: (1)

Ahh the spring tension. that makes sense. Thanks for the response. Based on this, I'm guessing it would be bad if the timing belt snapped

vincethe1

yes, when the timing belt snaps, you are almost guaranteed to hit the valves...but i have heard of the belt snapping with no damage somehow, although it's very rare to almost impossible...it also depends at what speed the timing belt snaps but when it's about to snap it usually does so at higher rpm...and that's definately not good.

vincethe1

anyways....because of the incompetance of my acura dealership...i had to buy another car just to stay mobile...so here it is.





















It's a 2008 Infiniti G37 Journey...automatic unfortunately but o well, my dad's driving it now...i was originally looking for an IS350 but when i realized how overpriced it was i looked elsewhere....i couldn't buy another Honda product at the time obviously because they were trying to screw me over big time so i wasn't gonna buy anything from them...so i ended up with a Nissan. Noone in my family has ever had one but i said what the hell...something different to try. I gotta say, i'm kinda impressed with it, it's a nice car.

anyways i am gonna complain to Acura/Honda of america about this since they denided me out of warranty for nearly 3 months when it wasn't my fault...and i still had to pay for it, and the Infiniti obviously....pretty rediculous. what do u guys think i should do? any advice? thanks in advance

vincethe1

btw, since i've been gone i see that there is an update to acurazine...it's ok but the bad thing is that we don't have the random listed threads on the home page anymore...makes it a lot harder to browse and find new posts....

01tl4tl

thats an odd failure- no oil to one cylinder bank- probably a sprayer bar came loose or was installed wrong at the factory

Use the wrong rings at factory???--someone is just dreaming now!

If more cars have this prob- at least we know where to look now!

vincethe1

frankly, i doubt it too...but anything is possible. People make mistakes and if that occured somewhere in packaging or labeling, it could easily lead to mismatched parts...as long as they are close enough for a person not to be able to tell the difference (and these thing can easily be 10ths of millimeters apart and make a big difference). Frankly i don't know what happend, but when something so odd happens you don't know what to think anymore...there's been some issues with honda quality/quality control (like with any other manufacturer) so a slip up like that even though unlikely is still possible.

I hate cars

Wow, that's a very different outcome than I would've expected. Probably had one bank running very rich due to a bad 02 sensor or something.

Glad you got it resolved. All the techs would've had to do is a compression check first and once they verified low compression, run some compressed air into the spark plug holes and listen for air coming out of either the intake and exhaust (bent valves) or pcv (getting past the rings).

It might not be too hard to imagine that the wrong ring pack was used, there have been cases of Honda forgetting the oil control rings altogether. All it would take is the wrong oil control rings even if the compression rings were right and it would score the cylinder but since it was an entire bank, probably running super rich.

How was gas mileage before this happened?

Houston

Maann! That felt like I was reading a novel. I just learned a crap load from this thread. Thanx. Good ending.

vincethe1

^^Glad this thread could be of help...that's the reason why we're here in the 1st place right?

the ending did turn out ok, thanx to Findlay Acura...with the other dealer i was going nowhere fast...but i'm still not done with them....they almost make me think that they had something to do with this whole thing.