Very difficult to shift into gear on Manual TL
12-02-2016, 12:10 AM
#1
Very difficult to shift into gear on Manual TL
Hey everyone, I bought a 2004 Acura TL (114K mileage) with the 6MT about three weeks ago. I've been learning how to drive manual on it, and I've got the hang of it.
For the past couple of days, it's been really difficult to get it into gear from a stop (and sometimes when I'm driving!). Whenever I try to push the shifter into first with all my strength, it just won't go in. What's been working recently is pumping the clutch and depressing it multiple times, waiting a couple of seconds, then putting it into gear (and it goes in smoothly). Reverse is even more difficult. When driving, for a couple minutes after starting from a stop, it shifts like butter, but then it becomes hard to up or down shift. At a stoplight today, it just refused to go into gear completely, and I had to turn on my hazards and hold up traffic like an idiot pumping my clutch and trying to get the car to move. That happened again a couple minutes later, and I had people enraged at me at a stoplight as my car stayed still cause the bitch wouldn't go into gear. And whenever I've tried to downshift before making a turn, I would be able to successfully get out of the gear I was in, like third or fourth, but it would completely refuse to go into second (or any other gear), so I had to let it coast in neutral and pull it to the side of the road, turn on my hazards, give it some pumps, and try to get it into gear.
This has been pretty frustrating. I'm gonna try my best to take it to my mechanic tomorrow, but any idea what this could mean? Tranny fluids? A slave or master cylinder issue? Or might I need a brand new clutch? The owner told me it has the original clutch, but the PPI indicated that the car was in perfect mechanical condition. And for the first two weeks of driving it, my dad, who was teaching me how to drive stick, told me it drove absolutely fine.
I thought having a manual was going to be a cheaper and more headache free experience than owning an auto. Pretty disappointed. I'm really enjoying the rest of the car, but this has sucked for the past couple of days...
For the past couple of days, it's been really difficult to get it into gear from a stop (and sometimes when I'm driving!). Whenever I try to push the shifter into first with all my strength, it just won't go in. What's been working recently is pumping the clutch and depressing it multiple times, waiting a couple of seconds, then putting it into gear (and it goes in smoothly). Reverse is even more difficult. When driving, for a couple minutes after starting from a stop, it shifts like butter, but then it becomes hard to up or down shift. At a stoplight today, it just refused to go into gear completely, and I had to turn on my hazards and hold up traffic like an idiot pumping my clutch and trying to get the car to move. That happened again a couple minutes later, and I had people enraged at me at a stoplight as my car stayed still cause the bitch wouldn't go into gear. And whenever I've tried to downshift before making a turn, I would be able to successfully get out of the gear I was in, like third or fourth, but it would completely refuse to go into second (or any other gear), so I had to let it coast in neutral and pull it to the side of the road, turn on my hazards, give it some pumps, and try to get it into gear.
This has been pretty frustrating. I'm gonna try my best to take it to my mechanic tomorrow, but any idea what this could mean? Tranny fluids? A slave or master cylinder issue? Or might I need a brand new clutch? The owner told me it has the original clutch, but the PPI indicated that the car was in perfect mechanical condition. And for the first two weeks of driving it, my dad, who was teaching me how to drive stick, told me it drove absolutely fine.
I thought having a manual was going to be a cheaper and more headache free experience than owning an auto. Pretty disappointed. I'm really enjoying the rest of the car, but this has sucked for the past couple of days...
12-02-2016, 12:14 AM
#2
Oh and just to add to this, at random times the clutch's engagement point is a lot lower than usual. There was one point where I barely even lifted my foot off of it and the car started to move. Then a couple minutes later it would return back to the normal engagement point.
I really hope this won't be costly...
I really hope this won't be costly...
12-02-2016, 06:26 AM
#4
broman, you bought a used car.
you can be spiteful at it all you want but wont help the issue.
a car is a machine. a machine needs to be well lubed and if anything is broken, needs to be fixed in order to operate correctly.
this means, either the car wasnt taken well care of or some one damaged it trying to learn.
I bought my TL at 30k miles and at 35k, I HAD to change the clutch.
it displayed the same symptom of lower engagement as yours , and I had to pump the clutch in order for it to return back to normal.
The TL is one of the HARDEST cars to master the clutch.
Dont be surprised if you have to change the clutch more than once due to learning how to drive the car
but guess what, once you fix the issues, it will be as good as new!
it is quite expensive to repair the TL, as I found out and probably isnt a good BEGINNERS car, or some one who doesnt have funds to replace things that break on it.
I've changed the clutch once on my TL, and it's starting to slip again.. I'll have to change it eventually.
that will be 2 times since Ive owned the car!!!!!!!!
labor and parts reached about a grand.
if you dont have a couple grand laying around....
you can be spiteful at it all you want but wont help the issue.
a car is a machine. a machine needs to be well lubed and if anything is broken, needs to be fixed in order to operate correctly.
this means, either the car wasnt taken well care of or some one damaged it trying to learn.
I bought my TL at 30k miles and at 35k, I HAD to change the clutch.
it displayed the same symptom of lower engagement as yours , and I had to pump the clutch in order for it to return back to normal.
The TL is one of the HARDEST cars to master the clutch.
Dont be surprised if you have to change the clutch more than once due to learning how to drive the car
but guess what, once you fix the issues, it will be as good as new!
it is quite expensive to repair the TL, as I found out and probably isnt a good BEGINNERS car, or some one who doesnt have funds to replace things that break on it.
I've changed the clutch once on my TL, and it's starting to slip again.. I'll have to change it eventually.
that will be 2 times since Ive owned the car!!!!!!!!
labor and parts reached about a grand.
if you dont have a couple grand laying around....
Last edited by justnspace; 12-02-2016 at 06:29 AM.
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12-02-2016, 06:45 PM
#8
Thanks for replying guys.
Well, the mechanic confirmed that the car does have an issue. We worked with the hydraulics and changed the fluids to see if that was it. I then had to take it home since his shop closed. I thought that cured it since it was fine on the way home, but when I tried to take it out right now, the same issue reappeared unfortunately
He told me to come back tomorrow if the issue reappeared to start working on the slave and master cylinder. Hopefully that's it. I don't have the free cash for a new clutch at this moment (broke ass student lol).
I'll keep updating this. Thanks for all of your advice. Y'all are great haha!
Well, the mechanic confirmed that the car does have an issue. We worked with the hydraulics and changed the fluids to see if that was it. I then had to take it home since his shop closed. I thought that cured it since it was fine on the way home, but when I tried to take it out right now, the same issue reappeared unfortunately
He told me to come back tomorrow if the issue reappeared to start working on the slave and master cylinder. Hopefully that's it. I don't have the free cash for a new clutch at this moment (broke ass student lol).
I'll keep updating this. Thanks for all of your advice. Y'all are great haha!
12-02-2016, 06:50 PM
#9
I bought my TL at 30k miles and at 35k, I HAD to change the clutch.
it displayed the same symptom of lower engagement as yours , and I had to pump the clutch in order for it to return back to normal.
The TL is one of the HARDEST cars to master the clutch.
Dont be surprised if you have to change the clutch more than once due to learning how to drive the car
but guess what, once you fix the issues, it will be as good as new!
it is quite expensive to repair the TL, as I found out and probably isnt a good BEGINNERS car, or some one who doesnt have funds to replace things that break on it.
I've changed the clutch once on my TL, and it's starting to slip again.. I'll have to change it eventually.
that will be 2 times since Ive owned the car!!!!!!!!
labor and parts reached about a grand.
if you dont have a couple grand laying around....
it displayed the same symptom of lower engagement as yours , and I had to pump the clutch in order for it to return back to normal.
The TL is one of the HARDEST cars to master the clutch.
Dont be surprised if you have to change the clutch more than once due to learning how to drive the car
but guess what, once you fix the issues, it will be as good as new!
it is quite expensive to repair the TL, as I found out and probably isnt a good BEGINNERS car, or some one who doesnt have funds to replace things that break on it.
I've changed the clutch once on my TL, and it's starting to slip again.. I'll have to change it eventually.
that will be 2 times since Ive owned the car!!!!!!!!
labor and parts reached about a grand.
if you dont have a couple grand laying around....
And my dad told me the TL had a decently easy clutch lol. Learning wasn't too bad. I stalled quite a bit the first day, but every day after that went fine. What makes the TL supposedly harder than other cars? The only other manual I've tried is my friend's 325i, and it honestly felt the same as the TL, not any easier or harder.
12-02-2016, 10:14 PM
#10
Hey Russell- hopefully changing out the slave and/or master fixes the issue. The master cyl is a bit of PIA where it's located. Clutch on the TL isn't too forgiving but once used to it isn't so bad. The gearbox itself is great. I think once you get it sorted you will really enjoy the car. Hopefully it's not the clutch but buying used you just never know for sure what you may be getting into. Go luck- keep us updated
12-03-2016, 12:49 AM
#11
Suzuka Master
Acutally unless the AT fail (which is rare on a 07-08 TL) its cheaper to maint than MT in the long run. I learned a hard lesson with my first car (Acura Legend) throw out bearing and slave cylinder shot at the same time, holly crap $2200 for the total bill back 2005. BTW I bought the car for $3200.
12-03-2016, 01:04 PM
#12
Head a da Family
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Now just change the trans fluid with the GM/AC Delco stuff everyone here with an MT uses, AC Delco part # 10-4014 Synchromesh Transmission Fluid.
Make sure you see the words FRICTION MODIFIED on the label. That will certainly help your cause as well.
Call around to GM dealers to see who has it. Chevrolet dealers are usually the best bet.
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Make sure you see the words FRICTION MODIFIED on the label. That will certainly help your cause as well.
Call around to GM dealers to see who has it. Chevrolet dealers are usually the best bet.
.
.
12-03-2016, 01:48 PM
#13
Team Owner
I'm having the same issues with my clutch. I'm sure you've noticed that if you pump the clutch a couple times, it will work as normal again.
I was was debating this a bit with a few people here on AZ, and the more I think of it, the more I believe it has nothing to do with the actual clutch. It seems to solely be a hydraulic issue. However, without the hydraulic issue being corrected, it can prematurely wear out your clutch. We can't see what is happening inside, but, the clutch plate could very well not be engaging or disengaging completely.
My plan going forward is to replace the clutch master cylinder and clutch slave cylinder first. Since the car is now 10 years old, either of those could be failing. Also, buying a CSC or CMC is fairly cheap and fairly easy to replace, compared to a full clutch replacement.
I will see what results this will net. If it does not fix the problem, the next step is a clutch replacement, which I don't have the proper tools, room, or time to do. I was quoted ~$2200 to have it done through a shop, however, through buying my own parts and having a shop just do the work, I'm able to get it done for $1800-1900. A bit of a savings, but not huge.
I just ordered the parts, now I'll be waiting for a relatively "warm" weekend to put them in.
I was was debating this a bit with a few people here on AZ, and the more I think of it, the more I believe it has nothing to do with the actual clutch. It seems to solely be a hydraulic issue. However, without the hydraulic issue being corrected, it can prematurely wear out your clutch. We can't see what is happening inside, but, the clutch plate could very well not be engaging or disengaging completely.
My plan going forward is to replace the clutch master cylinder and clutch slave cylinder first. Since the car is now 10 years old, either of those could be failing. Also, buying a CSC or CMC is fairly cheap and fairly easy to replace, compared to a full clutch replacement.
I will see what results this will net. If it does not fix the problem, the next step is a clutch replacement, which I don't have the proper tools, room, or time to do. I was quoted ~$2200 to have it done through a shop, however, through buying my own parts and having a shop just do the work, I'm able to get it done for $1800-1900. A bit of a savings, but not huge.
I just ordered the parts, now I'll be waiting for a relatively "warm" weekend to put them in.
12-03-2016, 01:56 PM
#14
Team Owner
Also, Acuras are no longer reliable. Not like they once were. However, old car stigmas die hard.
That being said, the clutch parts themselves can be had relatively cheap. You can get the OEM clutch and flywheel through rockauto.com for about $500. The only difference between those and the ones at the Acura parts counter, is that they don't say "Honda" on them. However, it is still the same, OEM part, made by LUK.
the replacement starts costing due to the amount of labor required. I've heard there's two ways of doing it. The first involves welding up a support system for the engine, when you remove the front subframe. Without it, the engine is unsupported, so you have to weld up some metal bars to create a support. Then you drop the subframe, then (I believe) deal with the power steering, then undo a 1/3 of the engine from the top (remove air box, strut bar, fuse box, etc, etc), then unbolt the tranny and drop it. And by the way, it's heavy.
the other option (so I've heard) is to remove the transmission and engine as one, and replace the clutch while everything is out of the car. Again, this requires a lot of removals from the engine bay.
There simply is no easy way of doing this work, unfortunately.
That being said, the clutch parts themselves can be had relatively cheap. You can get the OEM clutch and flywheel through rockauto.com for about $500. The only difference between those and the ones at the Acura parts counter, is that they don't say "Honda" on them. However, it is still the same, OEM part, made by LUK.
the replacement starts costing due to the amount of labor required. I've heard there's two ways of doing it. The first involves welding up a support system for the engine, when you remove the front subframe. Without it, the engine is unsupported, so you have to weld up some metal bars to create a support. Then you drop the subframe, then (I believe) deal with the power steering, then undo a 1/3 of the engine from the top (remove air box, strut bar, fuse box, etc, etc), then unbolt the tranny and drop it. And by the way, it's heavy.
the other option (so I've heard) is to remove the transmission and engine as one, and replace the clutch while everything is out of the car. Again, this requires a lot of removals from the engine bay.
There simply is no easy way of doing this work, unfortunately.
12-03-2016, 04:47 PM
#15
Head a da Family
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That being said, the clutch parts themselves can be had relatively cheap. You can get the OEM clutch and flywheel through rockauto.com for about $500. The only difference between those and the ones at the Acura parts counter, is that they don't say "Honda" on them. However, it is still the same, OEM part, made by LUK.
.
.
12-03-2016, 09:14 PM
#16
I'm having the same issues with my clutch. I'm sure you've noticed that if you pump the clutch a couple times, it will work as normal again.
I was was debating this a bit with a few people here on AZ, and the more I think of it, the more I believe it has nothing to do with the actual clutch. It seems to solely be a hydraulic issue. However, without the hydraulic issue being corrected, it can prematurely wear out your clutch. We can't see what is happening inside, but, the clutch plate could very well not be engaging or disengaging completely.
My plan going forward is to replace the clutch master cylinder and clutch slave cylinder first. Since the car is now 10 years old, either of those could be failing. Also, buying a CSC or CMC is fairly cheap and fairly easy to replace, compared to a full clutch replacement.
I will see what results this will net. If it does not fix the problem, the next step is a clutch replacement, which I don't have the proper tools, room, or time to do. I was quoted ~$2200 to have it done through a shop, however, through buying my own parts and having a shop just do the work, I'm able to get it done for $1800-1900. A bit of a savings, but not huge.
I just ordered the parts, now I'll be waiting for a relatively "warm" weekend to put them in.
I was was debating this a bit with a few people here on AZ, and the more I think of it, the more I believe it has nothing to do with the actual clutch. It seems to solely be a hydraulic issue. However, without the hydraulic issue being corrected, it can prematurely wear out your clutch. We can't see what is happening inside, but, the clutch plate could very well not be engaging or disengaging completely.
My plan going forward is to replace the clutch master cylinder and clutch slave cylinder first. Since the car is now 10 years old, either of those could be failing. Also, buying a CSC or CMC is fairly cheap and fairly easy to replace, compared to a full clutch replacement.
I will see what results this will net. If it does not fix the problem, the next step is a clutch replacement, which I don't have the proper tools, room, or time to do. I was quoted ~$2200 to have it done through a shop, however, through buying my own parts and having a shop just do the work, I'm able to get it done for $1800-1900. A bit of a savings, but not huge.
I just ordered the parts, now I'll be waiting for a relatively "warm" weekend to put them in.
Yeah, my next step is to replace the slave and master cylinders. It's a little pricey for a student like me (I think my mechanic quoted me at $200 with parts), but it's far better replacing them than the clutch.
I really wasn't prepared for this dude. I really really hope it's the cylinders that's the problem, because I just don't have the cash ready for a new god damn clutch. This is why I bought a fucking Acura, not a BMW... And a manual one, too.
I wish us the best of luck man. Let's hope it works out.
12-05-2016, 10:30 AM
#17
The DVD-A Script Guy
Not sure that's the best tone to take on an Acura enthusiast site. Cause as justnspace said so well "broman, you bought a used car." Just saying...
If pumping it up seems to work there there should be some optimism that swapping our the clutch master and/or slave cylinder will fix it as "too much clutch" that goes away with pumping is usually a hydraulic issue. And since that's far simpler to start with than a clutch job it makes sense to do that work. As for the TL clutch being harder I agree with those that say it is. I think it's related to the delay/check valve and how it delays clutch bite. You can search for "check valve delete" if you are interesting in that.
As for pricy that's all relative but something you could have very easily looked into before buying it. A guarantee you that a BMW would be far more expensive. Having someone do BOTH a master and slave clutch cyl for $200 including labor seems like a deal to run towards (very fast). The discounted OEM parts are almost that alone. Well over that if you went to an actual dealer. You are using OEM parts right? IMO you should be.
If pumping it up seems to work there there should be some optimism that swapping our the clutch master and/or slave cylinder will fix it as "too much clutch" that goes away with pumping is usually a hydraulic issue. And since that's far simpler to start with than a clutch job it makes sense to do that work. As for the TL clutch being harder I agree with those that say it is. I think it's related to the delay/check valve and how it delays clutch bite. You can search for "check valve delete" if you are interesting in that.
As for pricy that's all relative but something you could have very easily looked into before buying it. A guarantee you that a BMW would be far more expensive. Having someone do BOTH a master and slave clutch cyl for $200 including labor seems like a deal to run towards (very fast). The discounted OEM parts are almost that alone. Well over that if you went to an actual dealer. You are using OEM parts right? IMO you should be.
12-05-2016, 10:50 AM
#18
Drifting
Thank you for your reply! This is a little scary, btw. I thought the TL, along with other Honda and Acura vehicles, was a very reliable car (which my research confirmed when I was car shopping). In fact, that's the main reason I bought the TL instead of a BMW E46 330i. So in theory, does this mean the manual actually costs more to maintain than the automatic (assuming a good automatic like the 07 and 08 TLs)? Cause if so, that's frankly ridiculous...
And my dad told me the TL had a decently easy clutch lol. Learning wasn't too bad. I stalled quite a bit the first day, but every day after that went fine. What makes the TL supposedly harder than other cars? The only other manual I've tried is my friend's 325i, and it honestly felt the same as the TL, not any easier or harder.
And my dad told me the TL had a decently easy clutch lol. Learning wasn't too bad. I stalled quite a bit the first day, but every day after that went fine. What makes the TL supposedly harder than other cars? The only other manual I've tried is my friend's 325i, and it honestly felt the same as the TL, not any easier or harder.
As for the manual costing more than the Auto? Don't think so. There is more preventive maintenance in the auto, but when either of them actually fails, the costs should be comparable....it is going to hurt.
How do you figure? I have no argument that the safety net that Honda has "historically" thrown isn't quite as big as it once was, but they are still mostly reliable. My only reason for not buying an Acura as my next vehicle will purely be because of their current offerings not being what I want. The overall quality, reliability, and how I have been treated by my dealer have for sure met and/or exceeded my expectations.