Raze

Hi everyone. Although i've been visiting the 'zine for quite some time now, this is my first post here - I've been able to find answers to almost all of my questions without starting new threads, since the community features probably the most extensive database of info on the 3g TL online.

However there's this one problem that has been literally driving me nuts. I've found at least 10 threads with similar issues - similar but not exactly same.

The car is base 2006 TL with AT.

The problem:

When driving on a straight strech of highway at high speeds (60+ mph), the car goes "wandering" around the lane. For example, first it goes left, after correcting it a tiny bit with the steering wheel, it goes to the other side, and back again, etc. Needless to say, that makes driving very uncomfortable - trying to catch that sweet spot in the middle which is unreachable.

When going off the highway, down a 270-degrees turn, doing a perfect circle, there is an uncomfortable feeling like the wheel is very very lightly kicking back from time to time.

When doing sharp turns, on the other side, I experience no trouble with the steering - there is no uncomfortable feeling of sloppiness or any other problems.
Of course, comparing to my previous car (mazda6), the car handling in sharp turns is sucky, but I'm hoping to fix that in the future with koni shocks and rsb.

There are no problems with the suspension. I've checked it quite a few times in the past year and done alignment several times also.

I'm using 225/45 R17 Continental tires, they are in good condition, but a little bit lower than should be (the diameter of the wheel is about 10 mm less than it should be on stock wheels).

The steering rack is in decent condition. There have been no leaks at all, but it was running with a torn boot on one side for a little bit. I've replaced rack end and tie rod end on the right side (the car was hit there).

If anyone can, please help with any advice.


I love driving, but this problem is starting to really piss me off. The car is great, especially the V6. I've had plans to mod the suspension and probably keep the car for 3 to 5 years, but without fixing this problem I'll prolly have to get rid of it

I hate cars

Usually that sort of problem is a worn rack or toe out in the alignment. It can obviously be a tolerance stack up of every component contributing. If the car is stable under heavy cornering I would look more for a worn component like the rack. Toe out will make it want to follow every rut and line in the road but turn-in will feel sharp.

How do your compliance bushings look?

How is the on center feeling? Does the car respond right away when you turn the wheel from center or do you have to turn it a few degrees before the car responds? I know when I first bought my TL, brand new so there were no problems, no wear I had the same problems you're having. I was used to my GN with it's dead on center feel, just like most GM cars and I tended to over correct trying to keep the car straight on the freeway until I got used to it.

Have you been on the same tires the entire time? It's unlikely, especially with the short sidewall but tires can cause this.

Raze

Hey, thanks for the quick reply.

1. I've redone the alignment today, here's the result (left, right):
Front toe: +0.02, +0.01
Rear toe: +0.03, +0.03
Front camber: -1.22, -1,28
Rear camber: -1.01, -1,51
The alignment was actually a little bit off, and the steering got a little bit better as a result, but still not perfect.

2. The compliance bushings, as well as everything in the suspension look fine.

3. The center feeling is generally ok. Sometimes (rarely) it feels like the steering wheel is a little bit stuck, and it takes a bit more effort to turn it the next 1-2 degrees. However, I always thought that it was due to the road quality and presense of tracks.

4. I had this steering problem with winter tires too. During winter i actually thought that the tires were the problem.


I'm starting to think that the only thing that will help is rebuilding or changing the steering rack, but thats pretty expensive. I don't want to do it unless I'm completely sure that the rack is the problem.

I hate cars

Many people will disagree with me but anything >0 toe will cause the car to feel a little unstable. It's not actually unstable but it will have a harder time going in a straight line without wandering. That's actually not a bad track setting though.

I hate to say alignment again because I know how frustrating this can be, I've been there before but if you get cheap/free alignments I would take it back and have toe set to zero. You may be able to get them to redo it for free, tell them it feels unsafe.

There are many other things it could be but besides alignment I would suspect the rack first. There's a trick you can do but I don't know if it's worth your trouble. I did this to my TL a couple years ago. I replaced the steering wheel due to wear. I got it slightly off center. I was about to fix it the. I remembered something I've done in the past for a cheap fix for on center play. With the steering wheel offset to either side, have the alignment place align it back to straight. There's not a lot of adjustment so you don't want to go too far. This allows the center of the rack to ride in a new spot on the pinion and can help on center slop. Probably not worth it but it's something to try before you replace the rack.

I replaced my rack at 70k and there was no doubt the on center feel and the ability to drive in a straight line without wandering was improved.

flyromeo3

I experienced the exact same problems and I resolved it by changing out my lower control arms.

Your compliance bushings need to be replaced.

paperboy42190

iTrader: (7)

I have a hard time believing ANY tl with over 50k miles will still have good compliance bushings. Heck, I installed a new set on mine about 20k miles ago and I can start to see miniature tears already

I hate cars

Mine had significant cracks by the time the car had 15,000 miles and 90% of those miles were spent going straight down the freeway which was fairly smooth. It seems like there's no winning unless you go with urethane and even then it has to be the correct urethane or it will also tear or deform.

flyromeo3

when I took my car to a shop to let them diagnose the problem they said my compliance bushings were fine.

I didn't believe them.
So I replaced them

Here is what one looked like

EagleEye

Yeah - that looks "fine". I was going to comment and say bushings. I experienced the same thing and I did 45 min of highway driving each way to work. Get up to high speed and I feel scared. Replaced it and it was heck of a lot better. 60K later, I think that I need to do it again

Raze

Well, during the suspension checks, nobody ever said anything about the bushings, so I assumed they were fine, but now I'm not so sure. I took some pics, can you guys see anything? Not sure what to look for.
There might be a crack on the left one. I'll try to get a better pic on the right one tomorrow.
left bushing
right bushing
-
Those bushings must be a PITA to replace, assuming you have to take off the whole LCA. BTW, does the subframe need to come off in the process?


About that steering wheel turn - not sure if it will help. The car changes direction after turning the wheel just a slightly little bit to either side, so the place of contact between the rack and the pinion shouldn't be worn. But I'll pay attention to that closer - who knows.
IHC - did your on-center feel improve after changing the steering wheel?

Jspec9

Usually you just have to remove the lower BJ and remove the bolts in the arm. Its not that bad. A press helps a lot with removing the bushings.

flyromeo3

i decided to go the lengther route and purchased two new lower control arms. Which includes all 3 bushings. ( compliance, strut, and the other one )

I also purchased 2 lower ball joints because I had a feeling I was going to damage them while removing. Which I did.

The job itself is not hard at all.
I took out the entire lower control arm with knuckle and popped the joint out with this tool
http://www.ebay.com/itm/KENT-MOORE-KM-507-C-LOWER-BALL-JOINT-REMOVER-GM-TOOL-/171135787924?pt=Motors_Automotive_Tools&hash=item27d87ce394&vxp=mtr
I actually got it for 3 bucks at a yard sale.

Once done, get an alignment.

paperboy42190

iTrader: (7)

your symptoms does sound like steering rack though. if you read some threads on here about steering racks, you will see that your symptoms are on point with steering rack issues. you will not necessarily see a leak for it to be bad, it could be worn components inside that you never see. yes you may have replaced the tie rods but tie rod symptoms are usually just a loose ball joint, they dont have any other moving parts. the internals of the rack dictate the steering feel.

replacement of steering rack requires loosening subframe from what i read, so its not easy at all.

the lower control arm compliance bushing are much easier to change compared to the rack. parts wise is pretty cheap, if you do the labor yourself.

Raze

Thanks everyone, I think I'll replace the compliance bushings next and see what happens.
Should I pay particular attention to other 2 bushings in the LCA while I'm at it? I assume they can't cause handling problems such as I described, at least if they look ok from the outside.

Raze

Bah, can't edit my own message.

I assume that the compliance bushing replacement requires removal of lower balljoints, even if i do it at a shop. Then, should i get new lower balljoints, or would they be able to pop the old ones back in without damaging them?