Triangle with "!" at startup, and VSA light after 30-40mph. Help!
 

Hey everyone, I know there are a lot of threads out there about the Triangle with the "!" light, VSA light, ABS light, and Brake light indicators on the dash, but I haven't found anything that exactly fits my situation, and I've used a little bit of each thread to do troubleshooting. So, here's the deal: I have a 06 TL with almost 200k miles. Before mind blowing or boggling begins, its 90% highway miles, I drive 150 miles round trip to my work, 5 days a week (roughly 35k/year). Anyways, I've owned the car since 2011 with 59k miles, I maintain oil changes every 3k miles, which is usually about once a month for me, and always use Full Synthetic oil, either Mobile 1 or Royal Purple(which is overkill, but with my long distance, I need it to be reliable). The transmission fluid gets a flush service at the dealership once a year, and a 3x1 change once every 6 months. Brakes are well maintained, slot & ported rotors, platinum ceramic brake pads, DOT4 (haven't ordered 5.1) flushed once a year.

Recently, I found my rear running lights on, not brake lights like when the brake pedal is pressed, when the car was off & locked. At the time this first occurred, no DTC or ABS codes, or any lights on the dash were on. Disconnected the battery and it went away for a day or so. Then they came on again, still no dash lights or codes on, just the running lights in the rear, and the brake lights worked when you pressed on the brakes. Didn't worry about it too much, I was lazy and didn't investigate too much. After a few weeks, the Triangle "!" light came on while driving home from work. After restarting the car, it didn't come on the rest of my travel home, and not until I arrived at work the next morning......

So now, a few weeks and lots of troubleshooting/researching later, the Triangle "!" light is always on, and after reaching 30-40 mph, the "VSA" light turns on. Note, when I first start the car up and the VSA light hasn't turned on yet, but the Triangle "!" is on, there are no DTC or ABS codes. Once the VSA light turns on, the ABS code 84-1 "Sensor Logic Failure" is produced, but thats it. I clear the ABS code with my OBDII/ABS scanner, and the VSA light clears, but the Triangle "!" light stays on, same thing happens when restarting the car.

Troubleshooting: I have replaced the Brake light switch, the APP Sensor, tested all 4 Transmission Control Solenoids (first unplugging each one and watching a code pop, then taking each one out and applying power to them to feel/hear them click), flushed the entire brake fluid system, cleaned all 4 ABS/Wheel sensors (as well as unplugging each one and watching an ABS code pop), Did a 3x1 transmission fluid change (the oil was dark but not burnt), and the neutral safety switch is working fine.

Before I changed the APP Sensor, the car did do a traction control stutter on take off, but that has been resolved. Also, after changing the neutral safety switch, the running lights issue has been resolved. I have two fairly new(less than a year old) Optima batteries in the car, red top under the hood, and a yellow top in the trunk, (for the sound system), which are at equal amps and tested good on a hard battery test (took the batteries out of the car to test inside the part store rather than that little hand held crap tester). Oh yeah, the HFL unit was removed a long time ago, so battery drain and low voltage are not the problem. Also, the VSA switch/button isn't doing anything, even after holding the button for a long period of time.

Even though these lights are on, the transmission shifts great, the car takes off and stops just fine, and no traction control stutters have occurred. I have a Santech OBDII/ABS scanner that I am using to read and clear the codes... Is it possible that there are codes or clearing methods that a "Honda" scanner would/could do? Does anyone think that this is my transmission going bad or does the VSA control system need to be replaced? Is there anything else that I should check or try replacing? Any help would be greatly appreciated! Sorry for the long post! Thank you all!

Bump.. I am having the same exact issue. I've tried everything.

I had something similar on my 2002 GrandAm. On those cars, they have a speed sensor that sits within the wheel bearing / hub. My brother has ran off the road in it and ripped the wire going to the sensor. The Service Vehicle Soon (not SES) light, ABS, and traction control were all illuminated. I replaced the wheel bearing / hub / sensor and ran a new wire for power and it fixed the problem. Maybe similar on our 3Gs?

Noland21, I thought that may be the issue as well, on the 3g TL, the front wheel sensors are located within the hub assembly, just as you describe. But as I said in my OP, I've cleaned all 4 ABS/Wheel sensors, and tested them in the line of unplugging each one individually and noting that the ABS light illuminated on the dash. Although that doesn't mean that they are working properly, and are not the cause of the light to turn on as there may be an issue with speed sensing part of the sensors...

Plus, you would think that there would be a code more specific to the wheel sensors failing... I really think that there may be something wrong with a sensor on the transmission, or the VSA and ABS pump/control unit is failing.....

I also forgot to mention that I recently changed 6 out of the 7 motor & transmission mounts. I have no clue where the 7th motor mount is located, but the other 6 (left & right side of engine, front top of engine (serpentine belt side), top of transmission, and two bottom of transmission) were replaced. However, I replaced these after the VSA issue started.....

I think I may replace any external transmission sensors like a speed sensor(if there is one) or an Output Shaft Sensor, and see if they fix the issue. If they don't, I will just return the sensor and continue using the one that is on there now. Ill report back once I change them out, it will be a few weeks or so until I find the time to do so.

Please let me know if anyone has any other ideas. I greatly appreciate the help!

I'm going try a few things this weekend. My problem arose when I connected the scanner to check another issue and decided to erase all codes. Once I did that, the "!" came on followed by the vsa light after reaching a certain speed.

When I connect the scanner, I can see that all 4 sensors are working but the abs pump does not react. Not sure if the pump is supposed to react like the sensors do while driving. The error code I received is very vauge also.

You may need to hook an actual scan tool up that can look individually into the different modules of the car. Your abs code may be more precise, but theres no way to tell. Considering you just replaced the mounts, i would go back and double check that everything is plugged in all the way and the pins are looking good. (not bent, or corroded)

When i did my timing belt i had similar issues after. Turns out the Vtec controller has a wire that runs to the the oil filter area on the passenger side. I remember it being a pain to see and get to. It was more towards the firewall if i remember correctly. But it pops up as ABS and VSA.

Otherwise, another thing you could check would be to ohm the wheel sensors to make sure they are getting similar resistance and smooth climb and drops as the wheel turns. A weak sensor could go intermittent at higher speeds. I also would ohm the speed output sensors on the trans.

I finally found a thread that describes my symptoms exactly. I connected the scanner to check on another issue and decided to clear all codes on my 05 6spd TL now I have the /!\ and VSA turns on at around 30-40 mph. If anyone can shine some light on this subject, it would be greatly appreciated. Is this something that only a dealership can reset?

Just an update, I haven't been able to find any new information on this issue. I also haven't been able to work on the car anymore. I see there are a few other people who are experiencing the same issue, I hope that someone will come across this thread and know how to resolve this issue from experience.

Just a quick update: I was able to have my car scanned using an Autel professional OBD2 scanner and was determined after running tests on the entire system that my TCS switch is not working. My specific code is 84-1, which requires a VSA neutral position memorization procedure done. I will purchase the TCS switch this weekend and report back.

Success FINALLY!!!! Replacing a faulty TCS switch did the trick. I then did the VSA neutral position memorization procedure. Problem resolved. No need to go to the dealer to clear this code if you have some patience. No more idiot lights!!! YEA...

Earl I have had this same issue in my Acura flat for over a year. VSA light comes on intermittently, gauges drop to zero and bounce up and down and the AC stops working. Is this the, problem you fixed by replacing the TCS switch? Is I t expensive to have it done?

Your symtoms are quite different from what this thread is referring. It sounds like your VSS is bad and possibly needs replacing. My suggestion would be to take the car to a reputable mechanic and have them diagnose your car.

EarlThePearl,

Congrats on your fix.

Was there a particular symptom or other flag the can be used to validate a bad TCS switch. I'm having the same symptoms (/!\ and VSA light) but would like to verify that my issue is the switch before placing a replacement part order.

How much was the TSS switch? Do you have a part #?

$41.66 at dchacuraparts.com

Manufacturer: Acura
Part Number: 36775-S3M-A01
Part: SWITCH ASSY., VSA OFF & CRUISE

OBTW it's not a TSS or TCS switch but a VSA (Vehicle Stability Assist) switch.

However, before I replace my switch in anticipation of solving the VSA light (and code 84-1), I am looking for a test or check to validate that the switch is the cause.

Yes you are correct, the switch is actually called VSA OFF. If you are getting the 84-1 code, you have to do the VSA memorization proceedure which requires you to have to press the VSA switch a couple times during the process. In my case the VSA switch was defective and would not allow me to complete the VSA memorization proceedure. This is the part number and price of the VSA switch for my 2005 6spd TL.

35300-SEP-A01 SWITCH ASSY., VSA OFF 2005 TL List Price $12.55 Acura OEM Parts Price $9.41.

Looks like I flipped over to the 3G TL forum by accident. I have a 2002 TL-S and therefore have to pay 3x as much for a VSA switch :yuck:.

Thanks for the info. I should be able to check my switch operation with a continuity tester.

This is what I am getting.


https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/acurazi...0491363828.jpg

Check out this thread that was very helpful in resolving my issue with the 84-1 code.

https://acurazine.com/forums/problem...ight=84-1+code

Thanks man..

I'm going to assume that the scanner tool won't help? I still need to do the re calibration?

Ordered a used VSA switch and a yaw rate sensor off ebay - both used. Hopefully I'll have some success to report next week.

I replaced the VSA Off Switch and performed the jump trick. Idiot light is no longer there. Now I can turn it off and on as I wish. Finally. What a relief.

You sir.. are the effin man!! worked like a charm.

Nice... Happy to help a fellow forum member. :thumbsup:

What do mean jump trick? What exactly do you need to do to jump trick??

Reference to earlier post
 

1) Jump pin 9 (brown wire) to chassis ground

How to Clear ABS & Read ABS codes, Clear VSA light

Great Job guys! At last, a usable thread on this issue!

It's been a while since I've posted any updates on my specific issue, I've been very busy with the Holidays....

So, here is how my VSA light issue was fixed:

In December, I took my car to the Acura dealership to have the rear main seal replaced, I was getting tired of leaking oil and the burnt oil smell after driving my car. Plus, I was not going to have a weekend free anytime soon to do it, and the best part was that they gave me a 2015 TLX with the 3.5 as a loaner for the 5 days they had my car. Which BTW, I really do not like that 9 speed transmission....

Anyways, while in the shop, I asked them to check out what is causing the VSA light to turn on every time I drive my car. So they did, and they only found "Glitch" VSA codes, which they cleared and the problem went away.

In my case, I didn't have to replace the VSA switch, the VSA control system, wheel sensors, ABS system, or anything else. Obviously an OBD II and ABS scanner is not capable of clearing codes pertaining to the VSA system. I did not read the posts about jumping pin 9 before I took it to the dealership, but at least I didn't have to pay for diagnosing the problem since I brought the car in for replacing the rear main seal.

In-case anyone was wondering, the cost for Acura to replace the rear main seal was a little over $1k, after parts and tax. In my case, it was worth it. I have a 2006 TL, it now has 202,000 miles on it, and I drive it 150 miles x 5 days a week. Yes, I could have done it myself and saved hundreds of dollars, I am mechanically inclined and have every tool that I would possibly need to take apart and rebuild the entire car, but MY time made it worth it. Sure, it probably would've only took two days if I did it, but there is a possibility that it would've taken longer than a weekend, which would've cost me $300/day with missing work... Plus, they gave me a loaner for free, and it was a TLX with only 8k miles on it. Who wouldn't want to test drive a brand new car, especially the new version of your own car, for five days!?!? Money well spent! :)

My 2002 acura shakes and cuts off help!!!
 

Driving my kids to school and it felt light like it was gonna cut off pulled over and yes it cut off tried cranking again nothing 2 times a charm drove for a week no problem. Driving kids to school again car starts shaking and put puts till dying tried starting wouldnt start until the 5th try now it happens once a day my only means of transportation shakes and cuts off n won't start back for at least 5to 10min

Hi, did you find a problem with your acura? Mine is starting to the same, however it hasn't stalled completely yet.

This thread is going off topic, but when my 2002 had similar symptoms it turned out to be air in the cooling system. I had replaced the radiator a week earlier. Bleeding the air out of the system cured the engine stalling (which occurred as I slowed to a stop).

Still working on my /!\ and VSA lights on issue.

I am not sure how air in the cooling system, which 99% of all vehicles have "air" in the "cooling" system, would affect how a car runs. Its near impossible to get all the air out of a radiator and engine. Also, cars that have slow radiator leaks don't have any issues until the coolant level is too low to provide the radiator with enough water to cool the system.

That's saying that my car with a pinhole leak in the radiator, which I just topped the fluid off last night, is running rough and shutting off because there is air in the cooling system, even though the system is 99% full.... Not possible.

The cooling systems ONLY function is to cool the engine and in some vehicles the transmission fluid. It in absolutely NO way can correlate with causing a rough running engine or shake. Something else will be causing that. If you think burping air in the system fixed a problem other than overheating then your experiencing a placebo effect.

I assume that you have a 3rd gen TL (2004-2008) for my response. I'm not entirely sure that other generations are setup the same as the 3rd gen that I am familiar with.

Because the car won't start back up for at least 5 to 10 minutes like you say, it sounds like either its too low on oil, a fuel delivery system issue, or a battery/electrical issue. It is very unusual that something as big as a shut off/fail to start doesn't pop codes and indicate to you that there is something wrong. But, Acura has not seized to amaze me. :)

These cars usually have an oil level sensor as well as an oil pressure sensor, possibly the exact same sensor. If the oil is too low, the engine will shut off to protect it from running with no oil. Outside temperatures/traffic/running distances will all play a part in this as well, as oil thins in heat and thickens in cold.

I also say it may be a fuel delivery issue due to the "put puts" as you described, which is a common symptom of bad gas or lack there of. Low pressure in the fuel lines, due to a faulty fuel pump, can be the reason for it failing to start for 5 to 10 minutes. There isn't really an easy fix for this issue, or steps to troubleshoot, since Acura believes in a lifetime fuel pump and fuel filter system in their cars. Otherwise, replacing the fuel filter would be a good troubleshooting step.

Last, I say you may have a battery/electrical issue. In these cars, even with a 100% working alternator, a battery has to be connected in order for the engine to stay running. However, I've used a 9V battery to trick the system before as a test to see if the alternator is providing enough amps for the engine to stay running. With that, if you have a battery that holds a 12v charge and just enough amperage to start the car, it may cause an issue down the road, depending on driving conditions. Also, if the battery is in the state as I described, it may have stored enough amperage to start the car the first time but after that with the battery being used to support the engine, lights, radio, etc., it probably doesn't have the power to start the car again. Now you may be thinking, why will it start after waiting 5 to 10 minutes? Well, if you have a battery with a bad cell, it can either not store any amperage in the bad cell, or the bad cell won't disperse amperage when the other cells' amperage lowers. In either case, when battery use stops, the cells within the battery level out, and can provide enough "juice" to start the engine again. The alternator can add to or create the same signs if faulty. From my experience with my TL, the alternator provides enough volts to go undetected in troubleshooting, but it doesn't provide enough amperage to maintain the battery and engine.

I am unable to provide you with an exact remedy to your issue, but I hope this provides you with food for thought. Check oil levels, change oil if its even close to due, have a parts store scan if you see any lights on the dash, have them also test the battery (a full draw test is what I recommend, even though it takes a bit longer than the little wimp in-hand battery tester they commonly use). Think about the driving conditions during the time you've experienced the issue, and the times between the occurrences. Think about the gas stations you have visited, and the time since your car was last maintained, in all aspects.

I'm sure that there are other threads on your issue on this site, anyone????

LOL, so I'm not the only one that caught that post!

I am not sure how air in the cooling system, which 99% of all vehicles have "air" in the "cooling" system, would affect how a car runs. Its near impossible to get all the air out of a radiator and engine. Also, cars that have slow radiator leaks don't have any issues until the coolant level is too low to provide the radiator with enough water to cool the system.

That's saying that my car with a pinhole leak in the radiator, which I just topped the fluid off last night, is running rough and shutting off because there is air in the cooling system, even though the system is 99% full.... Not possible.

========================================
If there is any appreciable air in the system it will form steam pockets. should one of those pockets be where a sensor is, the ECU will try to adjust the engine operating parameters. My thought is that is will enrich the fuel/air mixture or go into default/limp/open mode, causing idling problems. Not all cooling systems experience issues or symptoms with air in the cooling systems. Some Hondas and Acuras do.
=======================================

I totally disagree... My 2002 TL-S ran perfect until I change the radiator and coolant (and only the rad and coolant). For the first few days after the swap all ran well. Then I start experiencing low/rough idling and dying at stops when the engine was at normal temps.

I purged the air from the system by removing the radiator cap when the engine was cold, running the engine up to normal operating temp (in the driveway of course), the holding the idle up between 1500 and 2000 rpm. Lot of bubbles surfaced in the radiator fill. After about 10 minutes the coolant was circulating cleanly (no bubbles or foam). I topped up the rad and put on the cap. I have not had a idle event since (2 years).

You can view more about it here with this Eric the Car Guy video.

http://www.ericthecarguy.com/solving...ues-rough-idle

I was thinking about switching this part out but I have a question for u. Did your cruise control not work at the same time. ?? Just curious because mine works still.

Anything new to report? This is so frustrating?

. Anything new on this post? I have the same issue.

Did you ever get to the bottom of the problem?

what where the symptoms
 

What were the symptoms of this switch being bad. I have an 02 tl which shares the switch with cruise control. Cruise control still works. Does anyone think it can still be the switch causing the issue? I have 84-1 sensor logic failure.