Zigma

Well, I think my TL has a leak, or is it normal?

I noticed that my TL was dangerously low (Like, no more in the reserve tank) so I went and got some, good. Topped it off. This was Friday. Today, I notice that the Antifreeze is in the middle of max and min line. Is this normal? It never happend before. I think it can be due to the weather as its getting/it is VERY cold.

I never experienced any problems with overheating etc. Anything in particular I should be looking for?

04 TL, 54,000 miles...

csmeance

when are you checking the levels? the level can differ depending on when you check it.

Zigma

On friday I topped off, Today I opened the hood and it was midway betweem min and max. After the car sitting or 8hrs at work, I looked under the car since it had clean snow and looked for a leak and nothing, also did that this morning, nothing as well... nothing leaking from the bottom...

erick3

well you said you had ZERO in the reserve tank. it could just be that it you topped enough to fill up that "reserve" that you were talking about. i say repeat the process and wait again to see if it does the same thing.

Turbonut

iTrader: (1)

Make certain to check it each time when the car is cold to verify the level. If in fact it drops, there is a leak, but under certain conditions, the leaking coolant can evaporate on hot surfsces before reaching the ground. If the level does drop have the cooling system pressure tested when the engine is cold. You'll find the leak.

01tl4tl

If the res was empty you need to check the radiator level,
It may be down enough that the res cannot transfer back and forth
Also check the hose inside the res cap is attached- without that it wont work either

You can borrow a pressure tester from parts stores- must be checked dead cold!!! or you can severly burn yourself on half your body (happened to a friend opening hot cap)
The fluid does not get used up/loss without reason- all it should ever do is go between min and max levels in res with engine temp... and the coolant transfer with expansion
between radiator and resivor

01tl4tl

reason would mean: LEAK
water pump leak possibly if enough miles, or a rock hit to the radiator will do it, or a weak hose or loose clamp, heater core leak...all will cause loss of coolant

How is the temp guage? Always just a tick below half?

for the OP- an 04 with only 54 should not have the wear problems but may have a rock hit or a bad radiator cap---pressure test will show it immediatly- drips on the ground are not the only sign- a leak that occurs only with operating pressure wont happen while the car is shut off

you did put a 50/50 antifreeze in the res correct?

01tl4tl

OP- how is the engine oil level? and the oil smells ok- not burned, not way above full- as if water were getting into the oil and turning it brown and foamy?
Same for the radiator - color good?

Majofo

Definitely check if the radiator can hold pressure and also if your radiator cap can maintain pressure. When you open the cap you should see fluid at the top of the radiator. I'd take it in if those check out because it could be your w/p like 01TL4L mentioned.

Zigma

I put 50/50 Antifreeze, yep. The temp guage is always half between Cold and Hot. Basically 50%. I will take a picture when I get a chance. I took a picture of my Res and will keep an eye on it. I hope it's just a hose. It kind of sucks that I'm having all these problems with my TL...

Zigma

My car is going to sit for 7hrs today or so, its going to be VERY cold when I get to it. Would be it OK to open the top and check the coolant? What would I be looking for? Coolant should be on the top of that cap correct?

Zigma

I will look into all of this and if so, I will go talk to the dealer and see if they can work something out with my extended warranty.

Majofo

^ yes it should be at the top.

btw.. welcome to the "i've go more repairs than miles" club.. there's probably more threads about problems & fixes then mods.. but a good friend once said something about Jaguars and I'll never forget it..

Me: What's your favorite car?
Buddy: Jaguar
Me: Why?!?
Buddy: Because you always have to fix them

I don't share the sentiment but I figure you're either in the same boat (like fixing cars) or the opposite. Best advice.. don't let it stress you out.

Zigma

Heres a picture, anything weird looking?

Majofo

1. Your fluid is low but there is still some in the reservoir.. does it completely drain and then you refill?

2. It looks like you may have some coolant spill on your engine cover.. the dry white marks.. wipe the whole area down and see if you spot any coolant spill after driving.

Zigma

Well... I love cars, but it sucks when they break... It cost $$$ to fix lol. That said, all the problems I've had, I don't regret or let it stress me out. I've learned a lot.

Off to the car now, it's been sitting since 9am in the cold (5pm now) Going to take pictures of the res level and check the radiator cap since the car is freezing cold. When I get home I'll repost. I think its a leak...

01tl4tl

Since you have added fluid-more than once? and have an extended warranty- get it to the dealer NOW

of course check the radiator cap first and the hose on the res cap was connected and went down into the fluid (basing this on my gen2) but cooant loss is not cool (pardon the pun)

The radiator cap can be safely removed after a few hours- if you can touch the cap and your hand not recoil away from heat response- its ok to open

Fluid NEEDS to be all the way to the top-
See that hole in the upper neck part? and the hose connects and runs to the res bottle?--understand the concept?-
the radiator must be topped up full- to the bottem of the filler neck, the cap fits down into the remaining airspace, locks and creates a pressure for the system to operate ~15psi.
basically- When the engine/fluid get hot at engine shutdown it expands and pushes thru the hose into the bottle- resulting in a `Full Cold` level reading
When it cools it siphons fluid back into the radiator from the res
So both of the ends of the transfer hose have to be in fluid

We dont need a pic of the temp- its in the middle thats good- has it changed at all?
Does there seem to be a relation of loss to heater use?
Any strange smell-acrid type pungent- with heater? thats a leak in the heater core

Zigma

No strange smell, I do use the heater and I thought that was my problem. Whenever I have my heater to High, a higher than average amount of smoke comes out my exhaust.

And its def a leak... I popped the hood before starting my car and well... look at the level...





I removed the radiator cap, and it looked pretty topped off.





Oh, and now my Check engine light came on... I checked to make sure my gas cap was clicked in correctly, made sure the radiator top was in tight (but didnt bother twisting it since it was still hot)

What a mess, I have extended warranty but its through a 3rd party company. I'm taking the day off tomorrow and calling the 3 local dealers here to see if they are able to work out a deal with them. With how hard the economy is, i can't see them passing up work. We'll see.

01tl4tl

Many of them already have arrangements with the 3rd party companies and have dealt with them before
Dont expect a service writer to know if they direct bill a particular company for you- ask the service manager! Even they may have to look it up

Call the insurance co- they may know what dealers work with them

01tl4tl

the radiator cap was not twisted to the full on and locked position? then the check engine light came on?

Tripnbeats

if its eating antifreeze up and its not a leaking most likely its the water pump. after u get it fixed (whatever it is) make sure the genius techs do a compression test on the motor to make sure nothing was affected.

Zigma

I took it to Acura of Valley Stream (Even though I have 3 local Acura Dealerships here, Manhattan, Paragon and Acura of Brooklyn) I decided to take the trip up there (About 20-30min) Since they've gotten good reviews.

They called me up and said that I'm going to need a new power streering pump. When If this was covered under the recall and she said no...

She also said that the tech didn't find a coolant leak and I made the request to have the tech look at the water pump to make sure its ok. She called me back and said the tech didnt find anything wrong... I asked for the code on the check engine and she said its p0174...

Zigma

Well, the warranty company will pay up to $156 dollars for a power steering pump, I have to put up $250 from my pocket plus labor. Labor is like $110, my warranty company only covers up to $65. More out of pocket cost.

Looking at $440 out of pocket now and they're still running some test. I'm curious now... I don't believe my power steering pump is bad... It's never felt bad, only when it gets cold, you can hear the loud annoying wine that everyone experiences. After a bit, it goes away and its nice and smooth...

ankur914

This is what googling the code came up with ...Umm...Not sure if it applies to Acuras thou.....

http://www.obd-codes.com/p0174

PS Pump replacement with no faults in the coolant system? If i were you, i would go for a second opinion elsewhere just so you dont throw unnecessary money away if the tech misdiagnosed something....

ankur914

Actually...theres a TSB out there.

https://acurazine.com/forums/3g-tl-2004-2008-93/3g-tl-technical-service-bulletins-tsbs-3g-garage-j-016-a-613659/

TSB 08-043 in the above link ..states that the PCM misinterprets the input conditions as too lean. Corrective action is to Update PGM-FI software.

Hope this helps with the trouble code!

And you may be eligible for goodwill warranty work this guy as well.

Zigma

Yeah, I saw that but it only says 07-08 models. I have an 04.

Tripnbeats

i agree with ankur....plus the noise in the pump was covered under recall and tsbs because they say its an O-ring that shrinks and lets air in....

Zigma

Are you sure the pump its covered under recall warranty? If so, I will call and have them give me a definate answer.

ankur914

I dont think it states it outright...(i still havent done mine..crap ) But from reading the TSB and the info provided by TrippnBeats, I think they should cover it.

TSB 07-060
from
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=613659

Tripnbeats

no its not the pump they have to change its just one piece but if the pump is defective because of it...its covered

Majofo

I think what Tripnbeats means is the o-ring is covered under the p/s hose recall but quite often the techs neglect to replace the o-ring. You should be able to tell because the old o-ring is black and the new one is orange.

The only tricky thing is getting the little 10mm release bolt on the inlet port.. my ratchet wouldn't fit so I had to get a little 10mm wrench to loosen / tighten that and 5 mins and it should be all good. Acura is trying to upsell you on a p/s pump.. stay away.. if your pump isn't leaking then it's probably fine.

Not too versed in the DTC they pulled but definitely get a second opinion on the coolant issue and w/p, at least get an explanation why you are having to continue to fill up the reservoir. You wouldn't be the first who have experienced a tech being wrong in diagnosing a problem.

Zigma

I am going to call them ASAP tomorrow and let them know about the o-ring as well as get more information.

01tl4tl

you must be speaking with a service writer- you need service MANAGER on the job.

Tell them it is loosing coolant and your tech cant seem to find it- dont they own a pressure tester?
Review that `on acurazine.com` you learned of the ps o-ring and resultant damage if not repaired under recall/warranty immedialty- it took some time before yours was addressed????- that acura is covering that with goodwill warranty

And will they please go find out where the coolant is going?????
Maybe put the head tech on it, not the noob guy- get an answer and a fix before any authorization on other repairs
Ask the manager to work with you on the insurance coverage for whatever acura wont pick up on the repairs too

Its a bad res bottle or its a leak under pressure at xyz
PICK ONE!

Service writers make money on retail sales of repairs and parts
They dont even think about getting you a discount- you have to speak to a manager,, especially when jerked off the first call- no info on problem it was brought in for is unacceptable...they didnt even look at the invoice for original problem,, just got note from tech and called you to pay

01tl4tl

The tech should have a note on the working invoice, pressure test cap ok- pressure test radiator at 16 psi 45 minutes, no loss of pressure-
should be tested with heater core open too-
they probably handed it to the lowest pay oil changer....

Zigma

They open tomorrow, I'll request to speak to the manager and as soon as they open put a stop on the power steering pump and also inform them about Acura. I'll also inform them of them that the PS should be covered under the recall. I'll also call Corp and find out for sure. Hopefully that will lighten the bill a little.

I've been putting prestone 50/50 coolant, should I have them flush my radiator and put the acura coolant in? I'm going to push heavy and get an answer on the issue with the coolant which worries me the most. Oh, And I didn't update you on the noise i was experiencing before. It seems to be cabin noise from air coming in. I noticed when sitting on my back seat that there was some air coming in through the power window switch.

01tl4tl

You will inform the manager- thats too funny man--dont even try it
ASK the manager- they cant remember every car detail so they have a computer to look things up- maybe the service writer didnt know how to do that

Try saying: I read on acurazine.com about a recall on the p/s oring causing air leak and noise, maybe damage to the pump itself- is that right? Is that whats going on with mine?
Depending on the situation they may say- look- this is how I wrote it up so you only pay xx instead of xxxx- and here I can only do this but it will fix z
The dealer doesnt fix parts they replace them- ps pump noise- replace pump!
Maybe they can work the pump into warranty.. but when you have any outside coverage, they try to make a buck where they can- and assure that your car is fixed

Then ask: What does the real tech say about the coolant loss? I filled it twice and disappears in x amount of time. Is the bottle itself leaking? or somewhere under pressure?
Thats WHY I brought the car in- the people on my internet car club/tech forum at acurazine said to do it right away,, and your guy cant find any problem

Getting huffy to the manager will get you NOWHERE and No Help AT ALL

Calling acura can only verify a VIN needing recall fix and will get the book answer from a low paid phone answering person who is NOT an acura tech, manager or even owner.
You call corp if the dealer is `unable to resolve` a matter with you- you having exhausted all efforts at communication. They get railed by corp for not dealing with their own customer. Its a different business model~ corp wants 100% customer satisfaction-
you just have to work together with the manager sometimes.
That is their job- to take care of any issues, they deal with a lot of people every day whining about the cost of repairs and why isnt everything warranty...
so be nice and they can return that attitude
I advise a snack treat ~for the shop~ $5 of donuts generates a lot of goodwill your direction--now and later

Tripnbeats

shop treat always works my good man dont overlook it

Majofo

^ I complain a lot how the stealership is always trying to rail me but 01tl4tl is 100%.. always be professional and patient.. they see a lot more of the opposite.. so being respectful can pay off.

best thing to do is to try and form a good relationship with one of your service managers (not service writer) and their top technician. If the manager at one shop is an ass to you go to another one. You said you're near 3 right?

I've encountered some service mgrs who only care about their bottom line reluctant to do any discounts and always pushing parts (mostly at high volume service centers).. Just smile and tell them thanks but no thanks. You have to find the Mgr who will respond to your business and cares about customer loyalty.

The donuts are a trade secret.. remember like 01tl4tl said.. donuts to the shop not to sales.. and tell the guys you have beer at your house.

Zigma

I spoke them today, was unable to get a hold of the service manager as he's on the phone. I was only able to get ahold of the service writer :/ Her name is Evet. I told her about the issue with the power steering and how I believe there isn't a problem with the pump itself and its due to the oring/leak in air that causes the wierd noise... Funny thing is, this isn't even what i took my car in for but informed them to do the recall, I guess they're trying to make $. I told them to do the recall and make sure to replace the oring.

They will be doing the pressure test today as they didnt do it.

Tripnbeats

very nice.....hope it all turns out well.