Jase13

Thank you in advance for any advice. I have a 2007 TL. As I was driving today I lost all throttle and had to pull over and shut the car off because it wasn't going anywhere but to a rolling stop basically. I did not lose any power(Electric). Just no throttle power. Code was for Crank Positioning Sensor. Does this mean my timing belt is done? Thank you again for any help.

GRAF-FITI

no it means you need to replace the crank sensor.

Jase13

Thank you. That was my original thought but I started leaning towards the belt because there were no warning signs.

GRAF-FITI

no problem. it's quite self explanatory from a high level what the crank sensor does, and obviously if it's not transmitting the correct signal back to the ecu then your engine will not be compensated properly and power will subside

Jase13

It's the timing belt. Well, it's something keeping the timing belt from moving to be precise. Not sure yet if it's the belt itself until I get the cover off but peeping through the rubber hole, there is nothing moving. Just had the belt done 25,000 miles ago.

ZOMGVTEK

Did you get the belt replaced at a small shop, big chain, or the dealer?

Not that any one of them is going to do anything about your problem.

Do you know if the tensioner was also replaced?

ez12a

take the covers off and take pics. I'd like to see what's going on.

Jase13

For sure. Won't be until Thursday but I will keep this updated. A friend of mine that is an Acura tech seems to think my AC compressor freezing up May have caused this. For several reasons but his original thought is a piece of the drive belt may have hit and/or gotten wedged in the timing belt. I did run over a good sized tree limb a few days ago and explained that to him as well and he said that could have caused something but when I looked under the car briefly after that happened, it did not seem to have damaged anything. Again, that was a brief check, not a take the wheel off and get under and look type of check. Either way, I need to take the timing belt cover off to even know if the belt is broken for sure for starters.

ZOMGVTEK

As I mentioned in the other thread, the A/C compressor locking up can certainly cause a problem. However, the timing belt will STILL turn if the engine is turning.

It really just depends on how sure you are that you were looking at a cam gear when you noted it was not moving. Plus, you sure as hell should notice the additional load when cranking, and it would not cause the crank sensor code.

How the engine died could help narrow things down. If the A/C compressor locked up at highway speeds, you should have enough throttle into it to power through it and slip the belt on the harmonic balancer. I would think this would make quite a bit of noise. However, this would rob enough power that you might wonder why things feel a little funny, backing off the throttle in the process, and the vehicle stalls since it does not make enough power at idle to push the belt into the locked A/C compressor. A restart from this point would be tricky without removing the drive belt. However, that is quite easy to do and check that right off the list.

The timing belt should be well enough protected, but if you hit a tree branch, it sure could do some damage if it hits just the right spot. There is really no way to diagnose that over the internet.

Jase13

I agree, which is why my anxiety will be through the roof until Thursday when I can look further into it.

nfnsquared

There is nothing moving... when? Were you turning the crank by hand?

Hard for me to believe the tree branch got to the TB. I could see it possibly getting wedged under the crank pulley and damaging the CPS.

If the tensioner failed and the belt tension released, or the TB broke, you'll be lucky if you don't have any damage. The way you describe how the engine quit doesn't sound like a TB failure, be it breakage or loss of tension...

Jase13

Nothing moving when I am trying to start the car. I did not try to move the crank. In fact, I have yet to get under the car to see if the crank is moving. Only thing I did was remove the rubber cover over the inspection hole where the cam is and noticed the cam was not budging when I tried starting the car. But could the CPR being damaged cause it to just give out days later and not crank back up? I am hoping it's not the belt. I just had it all replaced 25,000 ago.

GRAF-FITI

dude - you gotta stop stressing about the belt. take a step back and start small

nfnsquared

OK, just read through your other thread. Man, I sure wouldn't have used the starter to crank the engine if there was any chance the TB is broken/lost tension.

But, the fact that you aren't hearing metal on metal sounds when cranking sure sounds like it's not a TB issue....

Jase13

I know, I know. Can't help it. Worrying won't help until I can look at the damn car anyhow which won't be until Thursday. I am just the kind of person that wants to fix it now, not later, so it's stressing me out.

Jase13

Just wanted to post an update. It was the timing belt. I replaced it, the tensioner, idler and water pump and the engine runs smooth. The culprit was the bolt holding the idler pulley to the water pump being too tight. It basically broke off that little section of the water pump where it bolts in. I just had all of this changed 25,000 miles ago so the mechanic that did it originally did a shotty job. All of the bolts were too tight. Thanks again for the help folks.

nfnsquared

So the belt was broken or just loose/off the cam sprockets or what? What exactly did you see when you got in there?

Jase13

Belt was shredded but still on the pulleys and sprockets somehow.

Jase13

I had to put a torch to the crank bolt just to loosen it. It was way to tight.

GRAF-FITI

o dang

nfnsquared

I'm amazed that you have no engine damage. Tell your shade tree mechanic to invest in a torque wrench.

Jase13

Me too. I have not driven it yet but I let it run for about 30 minutes and it ran smooth and quiet. We shall see. And he says he used a torque wrench. He said the water pump had a defect. Ha!

ZOMGVTEK

I would do a leak down test anyways.

Running smooth is a good start.

Jase13

Why do you recommend a leak down test?

Jase13

Wouldn't it have kicked some codes if something was wrong while running for 30 minutes?

Jase13

Drove her home today from my shop which is about 15 miles and she purred like a cat. I must have been one of the lucky ones. I have some power steering noise now but hopefully I can figure that out. I'll take that over a shot engine.

nfnsquared

Only time will tell for sure, but that's encouraging nonetheless. I can only assume that when the idler pulley finally failed, the TB slipped enough to throw off the CPS and killed the engine before it skipped enough teeth to allow interference...

Keep us updated

Jase13

Will do. Any ideas on how to get the power steering working properly? I am assuming it's from me removing the pump and setting it atop the engine to gain better access when doing the timing belt. I'm sure that caused air to get in the system. I tried moving the steering wheel back and forth for a couple minutes and it foamed for a while out of the top but it is still humming. And of course it gets louder while turning.

nfnsquared

Assuming your O-rings are good, just make sure the reservoir level is kept up and let it run for a couple of days. It might take that long to work all the air out. Be sure you use Honda or Honda certified PS fluid to top off.

Jase13

Yikes, I actually used ATF to top it off. Should I flush now?

carz0159

Yes, flush it if u used atf

nfnsquared

Which ATF did you use and how much did you put in?

Jase13

Not sure exactly on the ATF. It was the mechanic's at work and he poured it in before I could see what he was doing but I know it wasn't Acura ATF like I use to do my tranny fluid change. He Frickin swore it was ok. I honestly didn't know because the power steering is one thing I have never had problems with on my car. It was only topped off. It was low in the reservoir. This entire situation sucks. I'm sure he probably screwed up my power steering. He says it will go away after driving for a couple days. My car was running so good and was always such a solid car. I always do my maintenance and replace everything OEM. I feel like ever since the TB broke now everything is going to start going. I hope not.

nfnsquared

Honda PSF has a very high viscosity (~12.5) and special additives. I believe the total capacity of the PS system is 3 pints. I doubt your PS system is ruined because of the ATF, especially if he put in less than a pint.

Lesson learned here: This guy really doesn't know Honda/Acura requirements... And you trusted him to install a TB? Dunno, maybe he did a fine job....

Jase13

No, I did most of the work and this isn't the same guy that helped me.

Jase13

Power steering still acting up. Any ideas on solving the issue?

nfnsquared

1. Confirm O-rings are good/no source of air to the system.
2. Flush/refill with Honda certified PSF.
3. If 1 & 2 fail, rebuild/replace pump may be required.

Jase13

I just wanted to update. I replaced both O-rings and changed my fluid. Power steering runs like new.

ZOMGVTEK

I wouldn't be worried about running ATF in the P/S.

YeuEmMaiMai

^ me either it's basically hydraulic oil without the red dye...