CometVR4

I have an '04 TL 5AT with 175,000 miles. It's shifting strange. While in 5th and it downshifts into 4th from OD it would shudder slightly. Once day on my way to work the car revved up to 5,000 rpms on a medium load downshift. After that the car slowly deteriorated and I couldn't maintain the speed limit because of a slipping and vibration. I pull to the side of the road and switch the car off and switch it back on right away and the car drove fine. It drove perfectly for a couple of days and when i slips, i just turn the ignition off and turn it back on. I'm not getting codes but this sounds electrical. I replaced my 3rd and 4th gear pressure sensors but it didn't help. On cold mornings I get a loud whine that increases with RPMS and only pauses between gear shifts. But once car is warmed up it goes away.

Anyone have any ideas?

Majofo

When was the last time you did an ATF change?

CometVR4

I had the ATF changed at 157,000 miles. The Acura dealer did a flush.

At 173,000 miles I started noticing my problem.

Majofo

Whine could be a bearing, TC or ATF pump possibly.. I'd change your ATF & filter. Pray that it helps.. if it is indeed electrical, sounds like it is, it could be one of the solenoids. They're fairly cheap and accessible, I'd get them checked and replaced if necessary. Please keep us updated on what you find out.

StYLeZz101

mine was doing the same thing until it got to the point where it wouldn't move...i let it sit for 2 days the car was only able to make it to the dealership...they changed some sensors and test drove it and the problem still occurred so then they said the tranny had to be replaced..i also got no codes or anything

CometVR4

I replaced the tranny fluid. I had trouble getting the filter out, I didn't have anything small enough to remove those 3 10mm bolts. Although with fresh fluid the car drove perfect. I couldn't believe it I was happy, then 45 min into my drive the car started that shudder again and the noise came back. So I drained and refilled the fluid 2 more times to complete a 3X3 and the same thing. Runs perfect for a little bit but it stops. I had a CEL light too and when I went to Autozone to get the code read the manager refused to scan my car because it's dark outside even though it was only 8:30pm. I came back the next day and the CEL went off and they didn't find any codes...

CometVR4

Left work today and car was driving really horrible, it was rev and slip between 4th and 5th gear. I turn the ignition off and back on and it drove fine for a while until I got almost home.

CometVR4

Today VSA and VSA indicator came along with the CEL. Car is running like shit.

green goblin1

Ive had some tranny repair shops as well as the Acura Parts guy tell me not to change the Tranny fluid in high Mileage Jap trannys. My 04 TL has 143,000 miles ( about 225,000 kms ) and it seems to be running ok. It does downshift a little weird some times when I hit the brakes from about 60mph to slow down to 45mph, drops a gear and revs the engine( pretty much engine braking ). Im not sure if this is normal or sign of damage to come.

Anyways Im on the fence on changing my fluid. My friend changed his tranny fluid on 2000 Lexus es300 with about 180,000 miles and about 2 weeks later the tranny blew. The acura parts guy just told me that he has seen about half a dozen higher mileage acura's tranny's blow about 20k after a tranny flush. My own previous Acura 2.2 cl tranny started to slip like crazy after I added a transmission fix additive into it. It seems that these higher mileage Transmissions need the older fluid to keep the clutches sticking. Anyone had any similar experiences with tranny fluid change and failed transmissions?

CometVR4

I've read this as well. I should add this is my second tranny. The first one was replaced at 63,000 miles due to whine sound and rough shifting. I purchased this car CPO with 57K. I should have just kept my Honda Accord

Majofo

Sorry to hear Comet.. At this point I think any possible issue with the solenoids has stretched beyond. I hope that it's rebuildable. You have several options though.. at worst it's a $3k swap at Acura.

On a side note, a transmission with high miles that has not had regular ATF changes will more than likely eat it after a fresh ATF drain & fill. Most shops wont change out the ATF on a vehicle that has over 90k miles since the last change for this reason.

NedShneebly

He said he already replaced the solenoids, so that's ruled out.

I don't see many 5AT guys talking about clutch replacement. I'm not an auto tranny expert, but I know that auto clutch's, torque convertor, need replacing eventually, too.

i mean, almost 200K miles. I've only seen Toyota tranny's last almost 300K without a replacement.

CometVR4

On the drive home tonight from work, I had a really bad whine coming from driver side underneath the car and it didn't matter if the car was in park neutral or reverse, it increases with RPMs. I thought for sure my tranny was toast. It was shifting harder and did a really bad slip into 5th. my RPMs went up to 6,000 and caught, then the car downshifting into 3rd and then 2nd and back to 5th

I pulled over at a rest stop and switched off the ignition and guess what. Car drove perfect and it lasted almost until almost home and I could feel it shift slightly rougher from 3rd to 4th and 4th to 5th.

green goblin1

That sounds pretty bad. Thats how my 2.2 cl tranny acted before the tranny completly blew. I used to have a chryler minivan that would run fine when cold, but once the ATF heated up the vans tranny would be all over the place.

In regards to Mojafo's comment. I just changed my cv axles on the weekend and the ATF that did come out of the tranny was pretty dirty. Almost a dark Maroon color. So Im pretty sure that my ATF was not changed at the recommended intervals. Im gonna leave that stuff in and Im thinking of putting a little bit of Lucas Friction modifier transmission fix. Noting really wrong with the tranny but Im thinking this stuff will not hurt. Anyone had any experience with the Lucas stuff?

pikemike420

My car has that same whine on cold days! It sounds like a Power steering pump or something, and goes away after about 10 minutes of driving. I havent gotten it fixed yet, but I will let you know if I do. I also get a slight gearchange shudder between 1st-2nd gear. It is VERY slight and sporadic. My car has 75,000 miles, and I had my tranny fluid changed at 60,000 miles.

georgegiorgio

Hi Guys,

I have a 2007 TL-S, drove off the dealership in late July 2007.

So, the car is still pretty new, just over 2 years and around 32K miles.

These past few months, I had this issue that the car would not move...

I've notice it must be something with the transmission, like I'll shift to D, and hit the gas, and the car would not move forward, and not even if I put it in R...

And sometimes, after many intents, the car would move, but just slowly.

Some other times, I'll have to turn off the engine, and restart it to back to normal, so, this situation happened sporadically for the past 6 months.

Yesterday and today, the car would stop and go nowhere for at least 30 mins...

And the engine icon light would be on most of the time this happened, and sometimes VSAS icon light would be on too...

And yesterday, the Navigation showed a transmission problem code P0796...

Has anybody had this P0796 before?

millarduck

Honda is notorious for automatic transmission problems. Look at the 2nd generation TL and earlier 3rd gen TLs, early 2000 model Odyssey and Accord. You should feel lucky, you got 110,000 miles out of your second transmission. Once you get over a 150K on a factory transmission, you are on borrowed time. You will likely need to bite the bullet and get it rebuilt. Piece-mealing it will just cost more.

green goblin1

Hey PikeMike.

I have the same issue and so do many other tl owners. This thread seems to have helped many. Its apparently a $2.00 0 ring fix. I have no time this week but will fix it first thing next week. Check it out near the bottom.

https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...6#post11415276

CometVR4

Ok, I changed the fluid for the 4th time but this time I changed the filter. The car runs better than it did brand new. I drove around for a while to make sure it wasn't just new fluid acting as a band-aid but it's still shifting smooth. I think my old tranny filter was clogged. On my way to work this morning I noticed a very slight Overdrive- 4th gear shudder but I'm going to wait about 500 miles and change the fluid and filter again. I think the filter had reached maximum capacity and my fluid was getting contaminated. The whine goes away shortly after warmup too. (When the did the 3X3 a 1,000 miles again the car wouldn't shift perfect but would slip only after 10 miles)

Majofo

I feel bad for those with 07-08 TL's who have to drop the case to replace the filter. Keep us updated Comet!

NedShneebly

The 3rd-4th gear shift shutter was somewhat common, if very slight. The guys that changed the shift solenoids noticed this smoothed that out.

I hate cars

Just beware some damage is done by the slipping clutches. Hopefully you didn't have enough hydraulic pressure to allow them to burn when they were slipping.

NedShneebly

There you are, IHC.

Don't auto clutches need to be replaced at some point? It seems like people just talk about auto tranny's failing after 150K miles but, the clutch doesn't last forever, right?

I hate cars

Of course. I can't remember the Honda transmissions but a typical auto trans will have 5 or more clutch packs with 5 or more clutches in each pack. These are the wear items, clutches along with seals are usually all that's replaced during a rebuild. Most of the time hard parts will last hundreds of thousands of miles. Unfortunately Acura and most manufacturers have adopted a policy of replacing the whole unit instead of rebuilding. Many times we would open one up and find that maybe just the direct clutches were burned. $50 in parts and $350 in labor and it was back on the road.

Most can't diagnose these properly much less rebuild so the consumer has to pay full price for a new rebuilt unit instead of going in and fixing the problem.

NedShneebly

it's almost like dealing with the government. why fix it, just replace it. I really hate this policy that most auto companies have adopted. look how many times they replace several big $$ items in related systems with no results. f-ing waste. where are the real mechanics these days?

CometVR4

I only get this shudder anywhere between 45-55 mph and light throttle from OD direct to 4th. any other speed it's find. Strange

CometVR4

That's what I'm screwed. Every other place will say the tranny need to be replaced. They are in the business to make money so of course they will say it. But I feel if this filter doesn't solve the problem maybe there's an adjustment needed or a bad solenoid.

I hate cars

Since you've alerady done the 3rd and 4th gear sensors, there is a solenoid adjustment. There was a thread on it during the same time I started the sensor thread. It basically changes the timing of the shifts. Normally I wouldn't suggest it but in your case you likely have a little extra wear and need to compensate for it.

There's a good chance the lining of the clutches is slightly burned which will reduce it's holding power and cause a shudder. You can first try a bottle of black Lubegard and if that doesn't work, try the solenoid adjustment.

What fluid did you use? You can try a fluid with less friction modifiers like Amsoil ACD if the black bottle doesn't work. Those two are on the opposite ends of the spectrum. The Lubegard is a friction modifier and the ACD doesn't contain as much. In other words don't use both at the same time or they will cancel each other out.

Redline also makes a slightly thicker "High Temp ATF" that may increase line pressure slightly.

Lastly or I should've said first, try resetting everything by holding the throttle to the floor for a minute with the key on engine off.

NedShneebly

^Aren't you supposed to go for like a 1/2 hour drive after resetting the tranny?

And Comet, I don't think it's entirely lazy mechanics but, cars are so damn sophisticated and complicated these days that you need a computer science degree just to diagnose.

ahh, the good ole' days of manual windows and throttle cables....

CometVR4

Well, I the first 3X3 I used Acura's ATF-Z1 but the slipping only got worst after about 200 miles of driving. But this time I'm using Mobil 1 Muti-vehicle synthetic. On the back of the bottle it says its suitable for Honda ATF-Z1(Except CVT).

Where can I find Lubegaurd? Also where can I what do does everyone think about Castrol ATF High Mileage.

NedShneebly

I think any of those high-mileage products are just a band-aid for worn, failing components.

CometVR4

Here is an update as to what happened to help future owners.

Despite my attempts to swap out fluid it served as only a band-aid fix as the car would drive fine for about a day or so then it would start slipping. One day I was on my way to work and it lost all ability to move forward. I pulled over and and switched off the ignition and sat for about 10 min and try again and it drove fine for about a couple of miles. I had to repeat this several times to limp the car back home. I let the car sit for about 2 months because while money was in issue with the dealership.

I called AAMCO Transmission and he quoted me $1,600 for a basic rebuild. I was excited and had the car towed to his shop the same day. Next day he tells me that some solenoid went back and caused the tranny failure and stated if I had brought it to him sooner he could have saved me a rebuilt yada yada. So anyway I get a call later and the price jumped to $2400 because I needed a new TQ converter. A week later the car was completed with the grand total coming out to $3,100!!!

So I got ripped off. The second price increased was caused by bad diff bearings and pressure switches.

They charged me $400 for 3rd and 4th gear pressure switches I already replaced myself 2 months prior!

The new tranny does however shift 100 times smoother.

Majofo

I can't believe you took your car to AAMCO. Even Firestone thinks those guys are a ripoff.

Hapa DC5

What type of warranty are they giving you on the rebuild 12mo/12k?

vinuneuro

iTrader: (1)

Fwiw, I think the 3-4 shift shudder is actually a tq converter problem and not actually a shift problem. If I put the car in 3rd I can easily get it do it revving slowly past 40mpg. 45k miles on our 05 with extended warranty. Basically waiting for the trans or tq converter to really take a dump so that it can be covered.

CometVR4

12mo/unlimited miles


I am going to take them to court for overcharging me for the pressure sensors. If recall they can only mark up 15% over what they pay.

Hapa DC5

Are they willing to refund you the mark up on the sensors? Good luck to you. In Cali we have the Bureau of Automotive Repair which acts as an intermediary between the business owner and the consumer. Much more effective then the BBB, check if OH has an office you can contact if you're getting no where with AAMCO. I'd also recommend getting them to get your trans warrantied longer than 12months considering what you paid for that rebuild.

Majofo

AAMCO is widely known to lure customers in with low estimates and then upsell and overcharge on all the work they do. It's like many brake job places that offer to do pads for $99 all incl.. but then when they get the customer in they say needs new BF, new lines, rotors are no good.. and will deny service saying it's a safety issue which usually gets the customer to agree to the service and pay ~4x more. For the same price you could have had Acura do it and they would have given you a 3 yr / 36k mile warranty. I think you might get some money back, not much though. Approach AAMCO first, I'm sure they'll feed you with all types of BS though. Then file a complaint with your state atty. gen & BBB. If nothing goes through, file a small claims against them.. it's a long shot but it might put a few hundred back in your pocket.

CometVR4

I tried to reason with them. They wanted to give me a 3 year/36 thousand mile warranty. But I declined. If I wanted the warranty I would have paid for it. I just want my money back.

I hate cars

That sucks but there are things you can do about it. I was in the rebuilding business in my younger years and AAMCO was the joke of the industry along with Cottmans.

They rebuilt my friend's bone stock GN trans and charged him for the 3yr warranty. 2 weeks later it had burned up again and it never shifted right in the first place. They told him it's a "race car" and there is no warranty after charging him for the warranty and the car was completely stock, barely quicker than a TL.

That torque convertor is a $100-$130 item to them. That's the going rate to cut one open, replace the clutch, and make any necessary repairs. There's no additional labor involved since the convertor comes out with the trans.

The only thing they can see from visual inspection of the convertor is the hub where the bushing rides and where the pump engages. I would ask to see the old convertor and where the bushing surface is worn. I would bet money they did not replace the convertor.

$400 for those solenoids is unreal. On any newer trans, every solenoid should be included in the rebuild price. That's the only way to do things, not to mention they probably get both solenoids for $50 and labor is about 5 minutes.

I really hate these places but it sure is fun playing dumb and letting them BS me and then getting a little more technical with them.