Rotor/Brake replacement. Is dealer overcharging?
12-03-2010, 08:06 AM
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Rotor/Brake replacement. Is dealer overcharging?
My dealer said I need new rotors and pads in the rear wheels and has quoted me $650 to do the job. Is he overcharging me? Should I take it to an independent auto shop to get it done for cheaper?
I have thought about doing this myself but dont have the time or expertise. I live in the CT/NYC area and my car is an 05 6mt TL. Maybe there is someone out there who could help me put them on?
haha its worth a shot. Thanks in advance for the help.
I have thought about doing this myself but dont have the time or expertise. I live in the CT/NYC area and my car is an 05 6mt TL. Maybe there is someone out there who could help me put them on?
haha its worth a shot. Thanks in advance for the help.
12-03-2010, 08:11 AM
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almost 90k. They said they were to thin to resurface. I am moving to Houston right after Xmas and Im gona take the car all the way down. So I was thinking it would be a good idea to get them done beforehand. Unless you wanna help me put them on once I get down there haha
12-03-2010, 08:24 AM
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That's awesome, yea I can't wait to get down there and away from this cold ass weather! So you could definitely help me out with the install? That would be a huge help, I saw the DIY and it seems a little challenging, but if I was with someone who could help direct me (and had the tools), I know it wouldn't be a problem. What type of rotors/pads should I order? I'm not looking to drop too much $$, just looking for good and reliable.
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12-03-2010, 08:31 AM
#8
Race Director
Ditto. I have 103K on my 6MT and both the rear rotors and pads are original. Plenty of pad left...
Look at your rear pads. You should be able to see them through the wheel spokes. Service limit is 1.6mm or 1/16". If you can see 1/8" of pad material, your pads don't need to be replaced and should make the trip to Houston no problem.
Call your service manager back and ask him:
1. What was the rotor thickness measurement?
2. What was the pad thickness measurement?
My bet is they can't answer either question because they didn't measure a single thing. This is a typical unethical service department upsell. It happens all the time. I can almost guarantee you that your rear pad/rotors do not need replacement....
Look at your rear pads. You should be able to see them through the wheel spokes. Service limit is 1.6mm or 1/16". If you can see 1/8" of pad material, your pads don't need to be replaced and should make the trip to Houston no problem.
Call your service manager back and ask him:
1. What was the rotor thickness measurement?
2. What was the pad thickness measurement?
My bet is they can't answer either question because they didn't measure a single thing. This is a typical unethical service department upsell. It happens all the time. I can almost guarantee you that your rear pad/rotors do not need replacement....
12-03-2010, 08:31 AM
#9
I just changed out my brembo rotors 2 weeks ago.
the rears look easier!!!!!!!
honestly, the rears dont do the majority of the braking, so I would look into an OEM replacement. Something the doesnt cost an arm and a leg.this is also why the rears should last a long time.
the rears look easier!!!!!!!
honestly, the rears dont do the majority of the braking, so I would look into an OEM replacement. Something the doesnt cost an arm and a leg.this is also why the rears should last a long time.
Last edited by justnspace; 12-03-2010 at 08:43 AM.
12-03-2010, 08:34 AM
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I just changed out my brembo rotors 2 weeks ago.
the rears look easier!!!!!!!
honestly, the rears dont do the majority of the breaking, so I would look into an OEM replacement. Something the doesnt cost an arm and a leg.this is also why the rears should last a long time.
the rears look easier!!!!!!!
honestly, the rears dont do the majority of the breaking, so I would look into an OEM replacement. Something the doesnt cost an arm and a leg.this is also why the rears should last a long time.
12-03-2010, 08:35 AM
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Ditto. I have 103K on my 6MT and both the rear rotors and pads are original. Plenty of pad left...
Look at your rear pads. You should be able to see them through the wheel spokes. Service limit is 1.6mm or 1/16". If you can see 1/8" of pad material, your pads don't need to be replaced and should make the trip to Houston no problem.
Call your service manager back and ask him:
1. What was the rotor thickness measurement?
2. What was the pad thickness measurement?
My bet is they can't answer either question because they didn't measure a single thing. This is a typical unethical service department upsell. It happens all the time. I can almost guarantee you that your rear pad/rotors do not need replacement....
Look at your rear pads. You should be able to see them through the wheel spokes. Service limit is 1.6mm or 1/16". If you can see 1/8" of pad material, your pads don't need to be replaced and should make the trip to Houston no problem.
Call your service manager back and ask him:
1. What was the rotor thickness measurement?
2. What was the pad thickness measurement?
My bet is they can't answer either question because they didn't measure a single thing. This is a typical unethical service department upsell. It happens all the time. I can almost guarantee you that your rear pad/rotors do not need replacement....
12-03-2010, 08:46 AM
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He said 20mm of brake life and 3 mm on rotor. He commented that the rotors have some rust on them and if they resurface, they will be too thin. This doesnt seem that urgent, I guess I could wait it out a bit longer, esp considering they are rear brakes.
12-03-2010, 09:06 AM
#15
Race Director
1. Rear rotors new are 9mm in thickness. Service limit is 7.5 mm.
2. Read pads: are only 8.5-9.5mm new. How can you over 2x new thickness left?
Call him back and use this exact wording:
1. What was the actual width of the right rear rotor? Left rear rotor?
2. How can I have 20mm of pad left when they are only 9mm to start with?
I think he's full of it...
or P.M me his name and phone# and I'll call him...
Last edited by nfnsquared; 12-03-2010 at 09:12 AM.
12-03-2010, 05:59 PM
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Hahaha, I was thinking the exact same thing when he told me! 3mm on rotors, really? haha I will call this moron back tomorrow and see what he says. Thanks again for your help 
12-03-2010, 08:46 PM
#17
the price is a little high. pads/rotors should be around $65 pads and ~$110 each rotor with oem stuff plus lets says 2hrs labor at $100/hr (based on where you live, could be more or less) which would be about $550 or so w/ tax and shop supplies.
should you need brakes at this milage? well that depends on how you drive. getting over 100k out of brakes is not common place.
rotors needed? if they are rusted badly they may need more than 1 turn which may indeed push them under service limit. dealers cannot (well should not) go below service limit. if i turned rotors that were under spec i would not be able to warrant the job for the 12/12 and would make the advisor note that the rotors were below spec and would not be warrantable if any warpage occurs (which it now has a greater chance of happening)
should you need brakes at this milage? well that depends on how you drive. getting over 100k out of brakes is not common place.
rotors needed? if they are rusted badly they may need more than 1 turn which may indeed push them under service limit. dealers cannot (well should not) go below service limit. if i turned rotors that were under spec i would not be able to warrant the job for the 12/12 and would make the advisor note that the rotors were below spec and would not be warrantable if any warpage occurs (which it now has a greater chance of happening)
12-03-2010, 08:58 PM
#18
Ditto. I have 103K on my 6MT and both the rear rotors and pads are original. Plenty of pad left...
Look at your rear pads. You should be able to see them through the wheel spokes. Service limit is 1.6mm or 1/16". If you can see 1/8" of pad material, your pads don't need to be replaced and should make the trip to Houston no problem.
Call your service manager back and ask him:
1. What was the rotor thickness measurement?
2. What was the pad thickness measurement?
My bet is they can't answer either question because they didn't measure a single thing. This is a typical unethical service department upsell. It happens all the time. I can almost guarantee you that your rear pad/rotors do not need replacement....
Look at your rear pads. You should be able to see them through the wheel spokes. Service limit is 1.6mm or 1/16". If you can see 1/8" of pad material, your pads don't need to be replaced and should make the trip to Houston no problem.
Call your service manager back and ask him:
1. What was the rotor thickness measurement?
2. What was the pad thickness measurement?
My bet is they can't answer either question because they didn't measure a single thing. This is a typical unethical service department upsell. It happens all the time. I can almost guarantee you that your rear pad/rotors do not need replacement....
the inboard pad has the indicator built on it and is roughly 1.5mm from backing plate. starting at say 9.5mm you only have 8mm of pad before the indicator touches indicating brake replacement. looking through the wheels you see say 3mm and that seems like roughly 35% remaining when actually its only 1.5mm until indicator so more like 15-20% remaining.
good techs will measure this way, some will measure to the backing plate and that makes your brakes % higher than what it really should be if you measure to the indicators.
12-03-2010, 09:03 PM
#19
Race Director
Mike, do you even own a TL?? There are several of us who are over or approaching 100K with the original rear rotors and pads...
Last edited by nfnsquared; 12-03-2010 at 09:11 PM.
12-03-2010, 10:43 PM
#20
reference from Honda ok? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xXL_bAuoh24
like I said, measure from the inboard pad since the outboard does not have the indicator. eyeballing is not correct.
Yes I do own a TL. My rears were replaced at 70k which is great, only resurfaced the rotors. The OP has 90k so brakes should be expected. 100k+ is not common although there are ppl here with that mileage before needing rears but its not the majority of TL's. I only wanted to give him more insight about the job at hand.
like I said, measure from the inboard pad since the outboard does not have the indicator. eyeballing is not correct.
Yes I do own a TL. My rears were replaced at 70k which is great, only resurfaced the rotors. The OP has 90k so brakes should be expected. 100k+ is not common although there are ppl here with that mileage before needing rears but its not the majority of TL's. I only wanted to give him more insight about the job at hand.
Last edited by mikedog4; 12-03-2010 at 10:45 PM.
12-03-2010, 11:55 PM
#21
Race Director
So all they're saying in that video is that the wear indicator for Hondas is set at the service limit. Their technique is to measure pad material down to the wear indicator to tell you how long you have until you reach the service limit.
To determine service limit, you still measure pad thickness starting at the backing plate, wear indicator or no wear indicator. The rear pads should wear evenly. A visual inspection of the outer pads as I suggested is a quick and dirty way to determine if the dealer is blowing smoke up your ass, which I think is happening in this case. It's easy to see if you have at least 1/8" pad left on a visual inspection. True, he could pull a wheel and check the inside pads, but for the purpose of determining dealer honesty, inspecting the outside pads should suffice.
I mean, for crying out loud, the service manager can't even give the customer the correct specs for either the pads or the rotors...I'll bet they didn't even pull a wheel off the car....
To determine service limit, you still measure pad thickness starting at the backing plate, wear indicator or no wear indicator. The rear pads should wear evenly. A visual inspection of the outer pads as I suggested is a quick and dirty way to determine if the dealer is blowing smoke up your ass, which I think is happening in this case. It's easy to see if you have at least 1/8" pad left on a visual inspection. True, he could pull a wheel and check the inside pads, but for the purpose of determining dealer honesty, inspecting the outside pads should suffice.
I mean, for crying out loud, the service manager can't even give the customer the correct specs for either the pads or the rotors...I'll bet they didn't even pull a wheel off the car....
12-04-2010, 07:17 AM
#22
I'll agree with you that it sounds like he is blowing smoke up his ass in this case with those measurements given.
I dont like looking through the wheels much because Ive done that at work and told people they look fine when the caliper was actually sticking and the inboard was worn to nothing.
Pads should wear pretty evenly but most dont either due to installed poorly at a brake job, caliper slides not properly lubed etc... If they are doing a proper inspection they should be taking wheels off and pads out to measure.
But to answer the OP question I think they are charging too much.
I dont like looking through the wheels much because Ive done that at work and told people they look fine when the caliper was actually sticking and the inboard was worn to nothing.
Pads should wear pretty evenly but most dont either due to installed poorly at a brake job, caliper slides not properly lubed etc... If they are doing a proper inspection they should be taking wheels off and pads out to measure.
But to answer the OP question I think they are charging too much.
Last edited by mikedog4; 12-04-2010 at 07:32 AM.
12-04-2010, 07:37 AM
#23
Race Director
On an aside, my reference to long lasting rear brakes may only apply to those with Brembos in the front. Just curious, are you running Brembos in the front?
12-04-2010, 07:47 AM
#24
I am not running Brembos on my TL. From the TL's we have worked on the ones with Brembos do have longer lasting rear pads. Something to do with proportioning I'm sure. Now that you've sparked my interest Im gonna run a report over the last 6 months to see how many brake jobs done on TL's had Brembo frts and the average milages of both for whatever set were replaced be it frt or rear or both. Keep in mind, I work at a Honda dealer (Acura is 60 miles away) so the #'s wont be much but enough to see I think.
12-04-2010, 11:41 AM
#25
Ok in the past 6 months we have done 15 TL brake jobs. The breakdown is as follows. 7 '04, 3 '05, 2 '06, 3 '07 of which we had 1 '04 6mt, 2 '05 6mt, 1 07 TL-S. So, 4 of 15 had frt brembo's. Of the 15 we had 6 that needed frt and rear brakes at the same time, 5 only frt and 4 only rear.
Average milage for non-brembo frt pads 41,390
Brembo frt pads 23,786
Average milage for rear pads w/ brembo 68,433
non-brembo rears 50,119
Average milage for non-brembo frt pads 41,390
Brembo frt pads 23,786
Average milage for rear pads w/ brembo 68,433
non-brembo rears 50,119
12-04-2010, 07:47 PM
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Ok in the past 6 months we have done 15 TL brake jobs. The breakdown is as follows. 7 '04, 3 '05, 2 '06, 3 '07 of which we had 1 '04 6mt, 2 '05 6mt, 1 07 TL-S. So, 4 of 15 had frt brembo's. Of the 15 we had 6 that needed frt and rear brakes at the same time, 5 only frt and 4 only rear.
Average milage for non-brembo frt pads 41,390
Brembo frt pads 23,786
Average milage for rear pads w/ brembo 68,433
non-brembo rears 50,119
Average milage for non-brembo frt pads 41,390
Brembo frt pads 23,786
Average milage for rear pads w/ brembo 68,433
non-brembo rears 50,119
12-04-2010, 07:56 PM
#27
Race Director
Did you have a chance to re-engage with that genius at the service department?
12-04-2010, 08:35 PM
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Well, hard to make any true assessment from that. You have no way of telling if a change was really necessary or how close to min spec the pads/rotors were at the time of change. I'm sure many were service manager "upsells" before a change was really necessary. Plus, many times a customer will be advised that "you're close to needing a change" and they will just tell them to go ahead and do it now.
Did you have a chance to re-engage with that genius at the service department?
Did you have a chance to re-engage with that genius at the service department?
The service guy sounded so unsure when I spoke to him, like he was making the answers up, so I think they are bullshitting me. I never trust the dealer anyways, always out to make a $.
12-04-2010, 09:30 PM
#31
Everyone is out to make money, unless its you and buddies doing the work with pizza and beers.
Now 15 TL's is not enough to make a true assessment by any means, just what we had to go off of. Being a service mgr I dont get involved in the "upselling" unless it involves something the advisors cant handle. Upselling is critical to any service facility, its how all shops make the money be it $$$$ or just $.
In terms of the brake jobs we do it this way. 15% or less and we tell you youre in need of brakes. All my techs pull wheels to measure correctly, if they dont I get in their ass. If its like 20-25% remaining tell the customer and let them decide. I dont like pressure tactics. If rotors are warped and pads are 40%+ left we will turn rotors and sand/molykote pads. Under 40% let customer decide if they want new pads or sand. I know a lot of people say dealers are overpriced and crooked and there are unfortunatly a lot of cases to back that up. However same goes for other independents. Bag thing is most word of mouth is usually bad, people tend to tell about bad experiences over good in pretty much everything.
I take pride in what I do. Our dealer is 50 yrs old (started as an Olds dealer) and has a very good reputation as far as the Honda portion of it. We also have a Hyundai portion and they arent as liked. I know some things we are more expensive on but there are a lot of things which we aren't and it blows people away when they find out that the shop across town charged more than us. I have also been accused of not performing work because the price was cheaper.
Every dealer has good and bad, some have great sales and lackluster service and vise versa. My opinion is find someone you can trust be it yourself (if you have the knowledge , time and tools) a dealer, independent or buddy. But dont automatically assume the dealership is the devil of the auto repair world.
Sorry OP for ranting in your thread. Oh and it does sound like your dealer, well probably more so the advisor is retarded.
Now 15 TL's is not enough to make a true assessment by any means, just what we had to go off of. Being a service mgr I dont get involved in the "upselling" unless it involves something the advisors cant handle. Upselling is critical to any service facility, its how all shops make the money be it $$$$ or just $.
In terms of the brake jobs we do it this way. 15% or less and we tell you youre in need of brakes. All my techs pull wheels to measure correctly, if they dont I get in their ass. If its like 20-25% remaining tell the customer and let them decide. I dont like pressure tactics. If rotors are warped and pads are 40%+ left we will turn rotors and sand/molykote pads. Under 40% let customer decide if they want new pads or sand. I know a lot of people say dealers are overpriced and crooked and there are unfortunatly a lot of cases to back that up. However same goes for other independents. Bag thing is most word of mouth is usually bad, people tend to tell about bad experiences over good in pretty much everything.
I take pride in what I do. Our dealer is 50 yrs old (started as an Olds dealer) and has a very good reputation as far as the Honda portion of it. We also have a Hyundai portion and they arent as liked. I know some things we are more expensive on but there are a lot of things which we aren't and it blows people away when they find out that the shop across town charged more than us. I have also been accused of not performing work because the price was cheaper.
Every dealer has good and bad, some have great sales and lackluster service and vise versa. My opinion is find someone you can trust be it yourself (if you have the knowledge , time and tools) a dealer, independent or buddy. But dont automatically assume the dealership is the devil of the auto repair world.
Sorry OP for ranting in your thread. Oh and it does sound like your dealer, well probably more so the advisor is retarded.
Last edited by mikedog4; 12-04-2010 at 09:34 PM.
12-04-2010, 11:30 PM
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Yea I agree completely, your never gonna hear someone raving about how good a dealer is, its only the complaints that come to light. I know where your coming from, we live in a capitalist society, everyone is out to make a profit, and 95% of the time, I have no problem with my dealer. I mean, I do most everything to the TL myself, so they don't see me too often. Its just when they make comments like the service rep on the phone did, then I get pissed. I like it when poeple give it to me straight, he was obviously not sure of his answer and made something up. Either way, thanks for all the input, its good to know there are honest dealers like your own out there who are making $ the right way.
12-10-2010, 11:25 AM
#33
The rear shouldn't cost you that much. I was quoted $647.23 + tax for front Brembo rotors + pads from John Eagle Acura. I simply said ok thank you.
My dealer said I need new rotors and pads in the rear wheels and has quoted me $650 to do the job. Is he overcharging me? Should I take it to an independent auto shop to get it done for cheaper?
I have thought about doing this myself but dont have the time or expertise. I live in the CT/NYC area and my car is an 05 6mt TL. Maybe there is someone out there who could help me put them on? haha its worth a shot. Thanks in advance for the help.
I have thought about doing this myself but dont have the time or expertise. I live in the CT/NYC area and my car is an 05 6mt TL. Maybe there is someone out there who could help me put them on?
haha its worth a shot. Thanks in advance for the help.
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