All;

Sorry if this topic has been beaten to death but I rarely visit this site and don't have a lot of time to dig through tons of threads.

My dealer says my brembos on my 07TLS are wearing out as evident by all the brake dust on my wheels. It's only been about 25k miles since the last brake change. They claim the brembos at best last 20-25k miles.

They want like $350 to do the change. Honestly I am sick of the brembos wearing so quickly and producing so much dust. I had an 05TL with 60k miles on it and never did one brake job on it!

I heard there are alternatives from companies like Hawk. My dealer claims if I use a ceramic pad it may heat up my drum too much and wear them out.

Can anyone recommend an alternative to the Brembos that yields similar performance buy more durability? Also can I keep my stock rotors or do those need to be changed too?

thanks guys.

 

Just from other threads i saw even today, some reccomended pads are EBC reds or yellows, and Autozone cmax gold pads. You can use the same rotors. I'd probably have them turned while your at it though.

 

I'm very happy with my Rotex Gold pads. Quiet, little to no dust, and stop good enough for my daily driving. The performance isn't quite up to the OE pads but there's a dramatic dust reduction and if you bed them in correctly they are quiet. I'm embarrassed to say I hardly have washed my car this summer since the front wheels look so good.

I think these are the ones you need for the 07... same as my 05MT.
http://www.buybrakes.com/store/DA049D This place is where I got them. The price really is less than what others sell for.

FWIW - I reused the OE shims. Others didn't. Not sure if it really matters.

 

Even if they wear out fast and produce a lot of brake dust, I'd still stick with the OEM pads.

 

wow so nobody has found a direct replacement with on par performance to brembos?

 

Everything I've seen in the forums does seem to think OE performs best. But weighing other factors in often times leads folks to other choices.

What's your intended use? If daily driving with occasional want for fun than just about any of the ones recommended will be fine...more than fine. 25Kmi is right in the average for the Brembo pads. Mine went about 40 but I do mainly highway. Comes down to this. What's bugging you? Dust, price, pad life? Extra pad life may come at the expense of increased rotor wear. Price? The Rotex and Autozone pads are cheapest. Dust then Rotex. Others like the EBC line (Red Stuff)

Bottom line the dealer asking $350 seems like much less than to $450-$500 I've seen others pay. I do my own brakes so I haven't had to shell that out and trying the Rotex pads out for $50 was very little risk and ended up working out well.

If your rotors are within spec and you can't, or don't want to, do the work yourself then you may be best getting the OE pads on line for $150 + ship and getting a local shop to install. You'll have the performance you are seeking at maybe $100 less total than the dealer. Probably not worth the hassle. But, if your rotors are shot then you have all kinds of options to consider (and agonize over) and I can't help you there since I'd get the OE rotors on line and wouldn't think twice about it.

 

thanks Adobeman for your very helpful and insightful post.

 

I've been happy with the Duramax CMAX pads, they came highly regarded from the EVO community. Lifetime warranty too that includes wearing out! So you can bring them back when they wear out and get a new set for free. Stopping power feels good as compared to the stock Brembo pads and they don't dust nearly as much.

 

First of all, in the time it took you to type those 3 posts and wait for replies (over 3 hours), you could've done 3 searches rather than start another thread on a subject that's been beat to death.

Second, don't always believe what the dealer is telling you. A brake job is so easy on these cars and the dealers make a ton of money charging you for them. I'm sure it's one of their top "push" maintenance items. Ask them how many millimeters of pad material is left. If they can't tell you, then they didn't really check the pads and they're just trying to sell you a brake job. (And brake dust on the wheel tells you nothing other than the fact that you have OEM pads. The dealer can't tell pad wear from brake dust on your wheels. Is that really what they told you?)

3rd, you could take a look yourself. You can see the outer pads through the spokes in the wheels. If you remove a wheel, you can see both. The service limit is 1.6mm (I think...it's one point something).

4th, do it yourself. The 3G Garage has several very good DIYs for this.

It's hard to beat the OEM pads, they are very, very good. They can be had on Ebay for about $160 shipped. (Also maybe from one of the Azine parts vendors for the same price).

I'm using Racing Brake ET300s ($99 from Heeltoe) and am very happy with them. Very close to OEM in stopping power and zero dust. As already mentioned, the duramax's with a lifetime warranty have performed well for other members.

 

Like Adobeman, I installed a set of Rotex Gold Kevlar pad for my front replacements at 25,000 miles on my '04 manual TL. The stock pads were fine and good for about another 30-40,000 miles (yes, stock OEM Brembos), but I hated all of the dusting.

I went through the bedding in process several times to eliminate the squealing and the Rotex pads turned out to be fine. Not quite as good as the OEM stock pads, but so close that unless you are really wringing out your car, you'd be just fine. As for the dusting factor, I estimate a drop of perhaps 80 to 90% - at or less than the amount of dusting an automatic TL produces (I can easily compare that because I have two 3G TL's and the other one is an '05 automatic).

Several weeks ago, I installed a new set of Rotex Gold Kevlar pads on the front because I thought I had seen a crack developing between the pad and the steel backing on the passenger side. This was not the case at all as the "crack" was actually a piece of cast that looked like a crack. The first set of Rotex pads had perhaps another 20,000 miles left in them which means they would have gone for over 70,000 miles for me.

For the new set of Rotex pads, I decided not to bed them in since the first set had already deposited a layer of pad material on the rotors. After about 450 miles now, they seem to have pretty much married to the rotor surfaces, though I would let them go another 400+ miles before I would be certain of that. I am pretty easy on my brakes and I know that unless I go through the bedding in process, the surface will take longer to "fit" the rotors. Gas out will take a little longer, too, but I am sure that is over by now. As for noise, there is a little under certain conditions but with I expected this because I didn't bet in. It is diminishing, however and most of the time, it is not there.

Now for the rotors. The stock OEM pads are softer and have a higher metal content than do the Rotex Golds. This helps rotor longevity and offers higher braking efficiency, but does create a lot more dust. The Rotex Golds are made up of metal and ceramic, but do not wear the rotors any more than the stock units. In fact, they may wear the rotors a little less. My front rotors most definitely do not look like other rotors I have seen with over 77,000 miles on them. There is hardly an inner or outer ridge at all.

I completely agree with other posters who have commented that which pads to get is all a matter of how your drive your car, what sort of performance you expect, dusting, and a few other factors providing they meet the performance requirements anyone would expect from a set of brakes in a quality car. I'm on my second set of Rotex Gold Kevlar pads (as I said the first set still had a bit of life left) so it is obvious that I have had good experiences with this product. But then, I don't race my TL nor do I drive it hard. I know these pads will giving me all of the braking power I expect for my applications because they have a history of over 50,000 miles with me on the prior set.

And yes, if you can, do the work yourself. You should have already purchased the Service Manual mentioned in your owner's package if you do any sort of work on your TL, so this is really a no-brainer.

 

Really? You would pay a stealership to do brakes?

For under 130.00 you could have pads for front and rear.
40.00 to have the rotors turned.

It is about a two hour job, that is including the drive to the shop to have the rotors turned.

 

I just replaced with front Brembo Drilled Rotors and Power Stop Ceramics all around. Drilled and slotted in the rear. The ceramics are great! No dust!!! Great Stopping power!!!

 

The dust is what really irks me about the OEM pads.


Saw these on ebaY:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...#ht_3742wt_913
.
.

 

Wow I didn't realize how sensitive some people are to having a new thread pop up on a topic that may have already been covered. I was honestly looking for numerical data for different brake pads to determine objectively how they perform. All I have gotten here and other threads are subjective opinions which are fine but I do like real data. Brakes are the most important thing in a car so I want to make sure I keep my family safe.

I am a small business owner that doesn't have time to do my own service. I have no problems paying a professional a $120 in labor to change my brakes to avoid the hassle. If I have to, I will bite the bullet and get the Brembos. I honestly don't want to have to change brakes every 20-30k miles so I am leaning towards the Duramax pads.

I am friends with the service manager of my dealer and he doesn't screw me over. He is checking to see if my pads are worn before replacing them which I told him I may bring him alternative pads...

In the meantime, they can have my car as long as it takes while I enjoy the new V6 TSX loaner

 

Unlikely...What kind of numerical data? How would you normalize this data if it existed?


Again, it all depends on driving style. There are many here who got over 60K on the Brembos. And again, you really haven't determined if your Brembos need to be changed out. You may still have half the pad material still left...For reference, when the Brembos are brand new, they're only 3/8" thick.

You can check the outside pads yourself without pulling a wheel. Just look in between the spokes at the pads. If you have more than 1/16" of pad material, then they are not at the service limit (1.6mm). There's no guarantee that the inside and outside pads are wearing evenly, which is why you should occasionally remove the wheels to check the inside pads as well.

and again, if your dealer really gauged a pad change-out based on the brake dust they saw on your wheels....oh brother. That's just like a Dad telling his son that he could tell that the son was speeding based on the size of the bugs splats on the windshield...

 

braking times from 80 to zero, testing for fading, etc.


I got a call from my dealer. He said my brakes are fine, almost brand new condition actually which is great for 25k miles on them. It's been awhile since I washed the car since its been raining non stop here in Florida.

He originally suspected I may need braked but said he would check before replacing them and get back to me. Thus he lived up to his promise.

I have the car in for its 30k mile service now which I know is a bit pricey ($495) I think, but I don't do this every day nor do I desire changing out transmission fluid myself as well as the other stuff they do.

This dealership is pretty good, they don't try to upsell me on stuff. I know my tires are starting to wear but even they said I could go another 6-10k miles on them before replacing.

As it stands now, I am sticking with the brembos until they give out. Thanks for all the help guys.

MY next upgrade will be the 18" A-spec rims in gunmetal once my tires wear out.

 

It's not so much that it's "a topic that may have already been covered". It's that it's a topic that IS covered about 3 times a week. After a while it gets tedious seeing the same questions and answers. I think I have literally answered this question (now) 3 times just this evening.

That's not a shot at you, that's just the way it is.


So here are the other two threads for you to review:

https://acurazine.com/forums/3g-tl-2004-2008-93/tl-type-s-front-break-job-%40-22k-question%7E-789741/

https://acurazine.com/forums/3g-tl-performance-parts-modifications-112/2007-type-s-3rd-party-brake-pads-oem-789498/


Party on Garth.

 

Huh? They just did, according to your first post:

 

I think maybe I used a poor choice of words. My dealer initially thought my brakes were worn. He didn't try to sell me on a brake job as much as to point something out they were going to check.

Regarding the multiple threads:
If a topic comes up too often than an official thread should be stuck to the appropriate forum area to reference to people like me.

Multiple threads aren't a bad thing as long as the page titles are different. This helps increase SEO for such topics, which increases the sites presence on the search engines and increases traffic.

Also the search function is almost impossible to use because of the expanding Kauffman tire ads. A search should be easy to access and navigate to its readers. Ads are important but they shouldn't obstruct site navigation.

 

^^^AdBlock Plus FTW...

 

I got the hawk ceramic pads and am thoroughly satisfied. The bite seems to be better. For example I can moderate whether, and how much I want my tires are locking up. And there is less dust then before

 

I have about 6k miles on autozone duralast gold pads. They are decent compared to the OEMs and are better in terms of dust and durability but they don't bite like the oems. I too am not interested in the extra $$ and dust of the OEMs for that extra bite. I found they only last 15-20k miles. Since the duralasts are lifetime warranty I won't pay for another pad again and I like that. It's worth the trade off in stopping power for me.

 

Multiple topics (in excess of course) kill the search feature. The knowlegable people get tired of posting the same old stuff so you get a bunch of watered down threads. When people use the search feature as they should they have to wade through all the BS threads to get to any with real content.

Stopping distance is determined by the tires alone. Spend your money on good tires when they're worn as that will be the single biggest improvement you can make.

Your driving style will determine your braking needs. You already have 12.2" Brembos which are not going to fade in normal or spirited driving. You really only "need" a pad upgrade if you plan on taking it on the track.

For performance and less dusting, EBC Red pads get great reviews. One member has said the Yellows take a little while to warm up to get full stopping power but have incredible power once warm. Probably not what you want especially if anyone besides yourself drives the car. The Reds will last much longer, be gentler on the rotors, dust less, and have a higher fade resistance than stock.

I've had good luck with Duralast C-max pads sold by autozone. No dust, same friction coefficient as stock, and they come with a lifetime wear warranty. They should be much easier on your rotors too. The EVO guys seem to love them and on average I would have to say they drive harder than we do. I can't however, tell you how good the fade resistance is on the Brembo setup since I haven't run it.

 

brake dust is a natural part of braking-
to cut down on dust adhesion to your rims-
wash the rims fully on both sides
apply 2-3 coats SYNTHETIC car wax- which has melt point of 212f compared to carnuba car wax 112...a hot day will make that run off paint, let alone stick to rims next to hot brakes

a slippery surface gives less opportunity for scorching hot brake particulate matter to adhere, then more road dirt and brake pad dust sticks onto that
This really works! makes rims rinse off clean! a trick from one of our pro detailers on azine to make his job easier

Pad selection: RacingBrake ET300 for normal drivers, ET500 for more aggressive brakers
low dusting-some but use wax trick- and stop on a dime and give 8 cents change
not the standard 2 cents...they work controlled/progressivly, meaning more pedal effort = more slowing NOW

Whats with gen3 and brakes/tires locking as speedy is saying
IHC you had a similar issue?
have there been recalls on master cyl or bias control?

2mm is usual ABSOLUTE MINIMUM pad thickness- when the noise maker hits the rotor it means the pads are TOO THIN...most pads start life at 8-10mm thick
Below 4mm and pads dont work as well - go ahead and replace, cheaper than any accident
see MrHeelToe threads for racingbrake parts

 

its more than just tires that affect stopping distance- shock condition, rotor to pad interaction, system pressure vs pedal effort...
It all works together
Most brakes will slow you from high speed once, then back to driving normal
Its for repeated use without cool off time,,mountain type roads, that performance brake parts show their worth

race cars get several seconds between each heavy use- so they cool down,
street cars on a mountain playing hard,,hot hot hot brakes--

 

I got pads, forget the brand, from my local Napa shop for $60, put them in, rotors needed no turning, and I have been satisfied. I have about 8 or 9k on them. Little dust.

Agree, hard to beat the OEM ones, but I can say the brakes on my '06 TL beat the snot out of the brakes on all the other cars I drive around in - after driving my Chev 1/2 ton for a week, getting in the TL and hitting the brakes for the first time usually sends me close to the windsheild! Likewise for my '01 Camry.

 

It's tires alone for shortest one stop distance. Shocks to a very small extent but you will only see a difference if the shocks are severely worn.

Rotor size, pad type, pressure, pedal effort, number of pistons only matter during repeated hard stops where heat becomes an issue.

This is why some mags showed the 5at stopping as quick or quicker than the Brembo cars in a single stop.

I upgraded mine to 13" Rotoras but it did nothing for my stopping distances.