Pankul

I had the similar symptoms since yesterday. flatline OTA (---F) and all radio presets gone.

I am just going to take the fuse #7 in and out seems to me the easiest thing, if the problem repeats I will consider the NAVI replacement. Who wants them to split apart the whole interior of the cart and introduce new rattles where there are NONE so far ....

jazzpicker

Getting my navi replaced tomorrow for the flatline problem. I asked the service advisor how long the car would be in the shop and he told me that the replacement takes 1.5 hours. Maybe they don't have to completely tear out everything to replace the navi.
A friend of mine at the dealership told me to get the navi replaced or I will have chronic problems with the car and while Acura is agreeing to replace navi units, I will get mine replaced. From the sheer number of posts here it seems to be a big problem.

tld6h

my nav unit was replaced last week and all seems well. No damage to the inside, no rattles. and all the coding and settings i had previously entered are still there. I guess Acura transferred everything to the new unit. I was pleasantly surprised.

Pankul

ok yesterday I pulled out the Fuse # 7 from under the hood as well as Inside the car for 5 secs each, and put them right back in. The manual says they are both for Backup something , so dont know how it fixes the problem, but it does FIX the problem.

the Outside temp --- was gone ... it reported the correct outside temp now and the the most interesting part was that my Radio Stations presets came back out of no where ?? that was a pleasant surprise... (not like i cared much bout them)

I will consider changing the navi on my next oil change, prob in a month.

question to those who got navi replacements done already

1. HOW did you explain the problem to the dealer? did you wait for --- to come and then drove there to show him ? or fixed it by fusing method and just told him when you visited them ?
2. Did you get the new NAVI DVD with new navi system?

Pankul

jazzpicker

I took my car to the dealership bright and early this morning and after about 45 mins the service advisor told me that all the parts were not in to replace the navi. one part is on a "restricted list" and wasn't shipped until today. I think the "restricted list" prevents dealerships from ordering a big supply of the part so no acute shortage is created for other dealerships. Maybe they are are expecting a run on navi replacements.
THe dealership offered me a loaner and would let me leave my car until it is fixed tomorrow- passed, don't like to keep my car at the dealership.
Also offered a free car wash..Passed again!
I am really suprised that the Navi unit has to be replaced to fix this glitch that many of us are experiencing, seems like overkill.

NH_TL

I too had the MID temp display flatline, radio settings default back to no presets and the hvac system loose the preset temp setting. This all happened at the same time that I mated my Bluetooth Blackberry to the car. I talked with the service manager at the dealer and he indicated that there was some sort of problem with the OAT from "time to time" and that by disconnecting the negitive battery terminal for 5 minutes should reset it. Well, it did, the radio presets came back as well after entering the codes for both the radio and navi.

I will be iwatching the board here closely as I am sure that a firmware update will be released for the car in the not too distant future.

kosh2258

I found, and others have confirmed, that you only need to disconnect the negative cable for about 4 to 5 SECONDS. Others have posted that pulling and reseating fuse #7 will also work.

By disconnecting the cable for 4-5 seconds, you can avoid having to rekey the NAVI, radio security codes and having to reset all the XM presets too and it still gets the reset job done.

On another thread where this was discussed, a couple of us "geeks" think that a processor is getting stuck in some sort of infinite routine loop leading to the draining batteries from the constant load of the stuck processor. That would also explain the "lost" settings. They aren't really lost, it's that the processor is so busy stuck in the loop that it can't perform other functions like output displays and so on.

I seriously doubt this is a hardware problem in the conventional sense, I think there is a bug somewhere in their software routines that's leading to this.

jazzpicker

I took my car in 2 days ago and had the navi unit replaced and, suprisingly, all the data (locations, home, presets etc) were still stored in the navi after replacement. The tech managed to damage an area of plastic/vinyl on the edge of the center console next to the metal trim. The service manager saw the damage and will replace the damaged area next week. The damaged area was small but I'm anal...
No rattles so far and hopefully this will fix the problem...
I have to compliment Proctor Acura in Tallahassee. It's small dealership and the staff really tries to help.
The entire visit took near 2 hours. The time passed quickly I was able to look at different cars and thoroughly examine an RL. It was like being a kid in a candy store.

liptons

Had the Navi replaced last week. Sure enough, I have a brand new rattle where none existed from the center console. Seems to settle down a bit when the car warms up but still very annoying. I'll be back in a few hundred miles for an oil change and will question the dealers commitment to quality repairs (this is the second time I've had a repeat visit on a repair).

So far no repeat of the original issue. I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

sagehen

I got hit with the "---" in my 05 TL on 2/21. I saw all the same symptoms (plus some?).

This thread has been extremely enlighting! Thanks for all the great info.

I'm a bit confused though. One post on this thread (Yoda117, 12/21/04) mentions a programming glitch. But the most recent posts mention the whole navi unit needs replacement? Is there any official word on this and how do I get that?

I'm not doubting anyone here by any means. But I just scheduled a service and the guy I talked with seems confident he knows what's up. After a few questions, I'm confident he doesn't. I'd really like to make sure they know how to fix this issue before I go in, but I'd like something official to refer them to. Otherwise I just sound like I'm telling them how to do their job.

The service guy said they have the parts in to fix it (again, I doubt it) and I'm terrified of them ripping things apart randomly trying to solve a problem that is already fairly well-known. He mentioned there's a Acura Tech-Line. Is there any way to get some info on this tech line or even a number that identifies this specific problem?

PA TL

I have a 05 TL 6 SPD Non-Navi. I am seeing the --- on outside temperature once in a while (3 times since I have the car in Nov 2004). It will "reset" when I shut the car off and park for about 10-15 minutes.

I have lost the radio preset stations twice. I do not know how I lost it (ie. have not been able to simulate the situation).

Since I do not have a Navi in my car, I do not know whether the Navi module is the cause of our problem.

jazzpicker

Good Point...

vidoprof

Well I have this problem and had it happen 5 times since I got the car 11/30/04. I have an 05 model and I originally thought it was because i have the DVD/ NAVI conversion and the DVD player is hooked directly up to the battery. Well I DO have an aftermarket Yellowtop Battery and it still dies. I have also noticed the flatline of the OAT display and I just found this thread.

I will be calling my dealer tomorrow.

Anyone who had the NAVI replaced had any issues since?

Thanks

Ryan

05_Acura_TL

I had this problem 3 times; first time was less than 1 month after purchase. 2nd time about 1 month after the first time. 3rd time was a week after the second.

1st time they said it was a bad battery. (OK, makes sense, losing programmed radio channels).
2nd time they replaced the OAT sensor. (OK, fixed OAT and magically restored my programmed radio channels).

Before taking it in for service the 3rd time, and after reading these posts, I disconnected the battery (5 seconds) to see it was returned to norman. Then took it in to service where the service guy says they can't fix it if it isn't broke but they will try to reproduce the symptoms. No luck after 3 days so they returned the car.

The service guy had not seen this problem before seeing my car and thinks it's due to my radar detector being connected to the rear-view mirror power wires (I soldered the wires within the plug so they are properly protected and cannot short). I've done this before with my Jeep without any problems.

Can anybody prove there is a connection between the rear-view mirror and the Navi/MID? Doubt it. BTW, I have an Escort 8500 and it draws very little current.

Anyway, I told the service guy about this site and all the other people who see the same problems. I even gave him a printout of a a couple messages (Yoda117 Post #29 and liptons Post #31). He called one but they said "without a car VIN or customer name, they can't look it up". So he gave up.

After getting my car back today (without any fix), I contected Acura Customer Service center (800-382-2238) and had a "ticket" filed with all the symptoms and my experience with the Acura Dealer. They gave me a case number and said somebody will contact me within 24-48 business hours (March 7-8).

When I receive a response, I will post it here. I will request as much detail as possible so you all can use the same method to get your cars fixed.

Have a great weekend!
Scott

05_Acura_TL

One other note...

I have a Motorola MPX220 and had HandsFreeLink working fine. I tried to delete and re-pair the device during "---F" but could not. I got to the final step and the HFL returned to Main Menu without any beeps or "Connected" message.

I was able to pair it again after disconnecting-reconnect the battery and all was good again.

Scott
~~~~~~~~~~~
05 Acura TL, Navi w/5 Speed Automatic
Anthracite Metallic
HFL to Motorola MPx220 (fw 0.343: no signal or battery strength)
New Nov 7, 2004.

kosh2258

This is a typical response for most dealers when they haven't seen the problem before. They'll look for anything unusual to blame it on. Dealers seldom have anyone on staff with the background to recognize these type of problems for what they are, a glitch in the electronics or programming of the vehicle systems.

I don't have ANYTHING wired up to my rear view mirror, or any mods to the vehicle for that matter, but I've had the problem occur 3 times. It's not easily reproduced. In my case it occurred within about 24 hours of a very hot day, then getting a cool down shortly after.

If Honda is monitoring this site, and I think they probably are, then they're aware of this being an issue, considering the increasing numbers of owners having it happen and posting here.

It will take time for Honda to locate and isolate the cause of this behavior, especially if it's in the software, which is where I believe the problem lies.

sagehen

Got my 05 back yesterday.

Symptoms fixed:
"---" outside air temperature
lost radio presets
lost bluetooth phone icon
rear window defroster stopped working (no power to it)

I'd had the "---" for about a week and a half, drove the car daily (hence no battery probs), did not pull the battery ground or fuses so the techs would see the problem.

After taking the car in, the service dept called and said they called the Acura Techline and it was a faulty navi control (module NH525L) - as has already been stated on this thread. Took a day to get the part, was installed and I picked up my car.

My initial paranoia gave way to relief. I was very happy with the service (Acura of Bellevue - WA), accurate, friendly, etc.

Good luck to everyone else with the problem.

05 TL Navi blk/blk

WOOCHOW

Ditto. 2005 TL, no navi; I have experienced the same loss of OAT, radio presets, and climate control settings 3 times; have not yet approached the dealer with the problem; car delivered in OCT/04, now has about 9500 miles; battery was replaced by dealer at about 1500 miles.

05_Acura_TL

Hey,

Yesterday my car lost programmed radio buttons and the climate control but it did not lose the OAT or HFL phone icon. Today all was back like nothing happened. Strange!!!

Still haven't heard from the Acura Customer Center. I will call them tomorrow.

geracip

Same thing happened to me. I took the car back to the dealer, and they told me the battery was defective (bad cell). They replaced the battery and I haven't had a problem since. Of course the weather hasn't been as cold as it was two months ago either.

tremor86

Im an acura tech and have experienced this problem quite a few times. Acura techline told us that they are working on a bulletin regarding this problem. For a temp fix they had us run a wire from the + to the - cable while unhooked from the battery. This resets all computer systems in the car. I bet those of you that are having the constant dashes across the temp display also have no rear defrost. On navi tl's there is a problem in the navi display and on the non navi's its a circuit in the guage cluster. '05's were supposed to have realtime traffic like the rl's but acura nixed that right before production. So for right now their is no definate fix and just has to be reset when it malfunctions. We are looking for the bulletin in the next 3 months or so.

David

tsunamiginger

Mine (with navi) is in the shop for this now. They said that they talked with "engineering" and that they are going to replace the battery (because it's low...which if I'm reading correctly, will fix the problem with the OAT and lost presets for now) and the outside temp sensor. I will let them go ahead and do that for now since it doesn't sound like there's a permanent fix for this yet. But it is also in the shop because the lighted buttons around the navi screen are dimmer than the ones below it around the radio...when they light at all. They usually light up but not always, especially when we first got it. The service guy says he can't see the difference because it's too bright outside but that he thought that they were about the same and I told him to put a blanket over his head Anyway, he's hoping the new battery and sensor will fix everything.

XelA05

My 3 months old '05 OAT has flat lined this week! I'll try the temporary remedies that has been posted. Thanks.

XelA05

Leave it up to me to screw it up. I have chosen to remove #7 fuse as suggested by previous post. After the fuse is removed, I fumble the damn thing and it drops in between the fuse panel and the moulding. Gone! Since I didn't have any spare, I removed the #6 fuse (int light) and placed it in #7 slot. It worked! My OAT is working now, however, I had to reset the navi code. It is never easy as it seem.

kosh2258

Well folks, we've arrived firmly in the 21st century. We now have to resort to the automotive equivalent of rebooting our cars to get the electronics to work right.

I'm beginning to wonder if Windows is lurking somewhere behind that Navi screen!

(Might as well have a little fun with it!)

jaywmtl

After just 1 1/2 month of ownership of a WDP Auto/NAVI TL, The exact same thing described in this thread happened to me last night. I lost all XM, FM/AM and climate control setting. This afternoon I reset all XM, FM/AM radio stations before I discovered this thread. I then disconnected the negative battery cable for 4 or 5 seconds, everything came back. I did try to pull #7 fuse from the fuse box under the hood, but it did not solve the problem. I tried to pull #7 fuse from the fuse box under the dashboard, but it was difficult to pull the fuse out. Which #7 fuse did you guys pull? What do you guys think what I should do now? Should I wait for Acura to come out with a fix and then call my dealer, or call my dealer now and ask them to call me when there is a fix? Thank you guys, this thread really helps.

bef

The fuse panel is by your left leg near the dead pedal.
It is a 7.5A fuse.

My car didn't come with a fuse puller so I initially used a long-nosed plier to remove the fuse. Since I didn't want the plier to to chew up the head of the fuse, I went to Pep Boys and bought a combo fuse puller only to discover that the jaws were too big due to the design of the fuse box.

I currently use a metal DIP IC extractor and hope I don't short anything out or drop the fuse.

I've had the flatline problem 3 times so far and am considering adding a switch in series with the fuse. I bought an "add a fuse" and it fits under the cover without any problems.

In the last episode, the OAT reading was stuck on the wrong temp (e.g. 63 when it should have been >80) for a day before it finally went flatline.

Kolshack

I had the same problem, and pulling the #7 fuse worked for me.

BTW, there is a fuse puller in the car. It's a white plastic thing in the under-the-hood fuse box.

I have no mechanical aptitude, but this was a pretty easy fix if this happens to you.

WOOCHOW

Problem happened again yesterday. It reset itself after 3 syart/stop cycles. I spoke with the service manager of the dealership in Groton, CT who denied knowing of any problems but invited me to leave the car with them for a day so they could look at it. My schedule so far has prevented that. My question is, is there any new info on this problem, possibly including a fix??? Thenks

flylow

Still don't know the answer to the above questions. Have had no further problems since the Dec. battery replacement. First service next week. 8K with no gripes. 04-28-2005

kosh2258

Nope, that is not always the case. Diagnostics usually only show a hardware failure. Software failures like this can go completely undetected because of their nature - basically a logic problem, not a code failure. Any diagnostic info may not be getting logged because of the processor lockup and subsequent reset by pulling a fuse or disconnect of the negative terminal to clear the system.

Not all vehicles will necessarily exhibit the problem because certain condition must exist to provoke the problem and not everyone may experience the conditions needed to cause the problem.
It's very intermittent judging by my experience and the various postings here.

I agree that the battery and temp sensor are not the source of this, makes absolutely no sense.
The battery run down is due to a power draw from the offending processor, likely as not. The sensor is nothing more than a simple thermistor and very unlikely to fail.

The whole NAVI replacement thing is off base too, because people are having it happen that don't have NAVI.

MR1

Boy, I was hoping there was a cure by now. My 11/05 built and purchased w/Navi flatlined this week, I also lost the connection for my HFL. All presets and navi still work so-far and I'm not sure about the rear defrost, I'll check.

Car is going to the dealer next Wednesday and I should have a loaner. I guess I'll see what they have to say but it does not look good from this thread. If I learn anything, I'll post.

BTW, I'm at about 7000 miles and have not had one other problem to date.

bef

Since, my last post in March, the outside temp gauge would either get stuck on a temperature or read somewhere in the 60's when it was in the 70-80's. On April 30, I discovered I couldn't start the car after not driving it for about 2-3 days. After charging I had to enter the radio code but not the Navi code.
I brought it in for service today and they replaced the battery (weak cell), they couldn't find anything wrong with the OTA but at least the readings are more reasonable.
No one has ever complained to them (Power Acura in Torrance) about the flatline problem.
I also complained about the loose clip for the driver's side sunvisor and they not only replaced the clip but also the sunvisors for both sides. I'm not sure if there are now new squeeks from the new sunvisors. Oh well.

brucedeb1

bef......Oh Contrar I posted my OTA flatline problem and symptoms months ago when I went through it. Contact Alfred at Power. I had my Navi. module replaced and it seems to have fixed the flatline issue. That is the good news. When daylight savings time took place last month, my system did not automatically update. I checked the settings as the module had just been replaced the week prior. All settings were correct. I was unable to manually adjust the time on the dashboard readout, only the readout within the settings menu of the navi. And this was in military time too. In addition to this problem whenever I would bring up a place within the search screen of the Navi, I used to have the option of calling from the Navi screen. This is now not showing when the name and address appear from the search. I contacted Alfred and after three hours of waiting it was decided that there was a problem with the link that connects the dashboard to the Navi. Both a new module and the link had to be ordered in tandom. I am still waiting for the parts to come in some 30 days later. When I originally brought it in for the flatline issue I too was told I was the first one with the problem, while many of us fellow Forum members had communicated it in these threads. Here we are months later and you are given the same story. What could be the reason they are not admitting to the problem existing?
Bottom line bef, recontact them and get them to do something. Otherwise the problem will re occur. As with Murphy's Law, it will happen when you are least likely to best deal with it and with the most amount of trouble!
PM me is you would like more info.
Bruce

flylow

Not necessarily "the fix" , but maybe the best answer to date found in post#61 by tremor86. I still would like to know if everything can be powered off. I am not even sure that everything is off when the battery is removed. Maybe some small batteries to hold settings or boot routines remain. Interesting that navi system can be reset by connecting power cables with battery taken out of loop! gg

flylow

My last entry on this subject, hopefully. Flatline third time last week. Dealer replaced "Module Assy Display" per tech line. Stated that the display would not go off and continued to draw current all the time thus pulling down the battery. I don't have the tech line, but I can list the comments from the service order.

comments . . . . .
39051 - SEP - A42ZA
U0080510
JOHN TECH LINE REF# 1569941

I will let you know if this is a fix or not. gg

05_Acura_TL

OK, All appeared to be OK with my car since my last "remair". I noticed the "module" has been randomally switching between driver 1 and driver 2. Now that my wife has been driving the car, I noticed the radio stations had a different preset. I recalled the salesman told me that the car would remember both driver's settings, so the switching made sense. However, since the last "repair", the car would randomally switch to driver 2, even though driver 1 was the only one driving the car. And, it would not always switch to driver 2 when driver 2 used the remote to unlock the car.

Anyway, recently, the car appeared to be responding correctly to both remotes. I noticed that there was no flatline and my bluetooth phone icon appeared as normal, until this morning when the Bluetooth phone icon no longer appeared, the radio presets were entirely different than both driver 1 and driver 2 and I have the flatline temp reading.

This got me to thinking. When the salesman setup the remotes, he had to setup them up twice. Maybe the system got confused and thought there were 3 drivers or programming them twice caused the system to be confused. Maybe that is the cause to the problem?

I was thinking about resetting the entire system (disconnect battery then connecting them together). Kind of starting from scratch with the programming of the remotes and preset, etc.

Any ideas about this from the community?

7thgear

Ok. The temperature flat line problem happened again. This happend one time before, about 2 months or so ago. All I did then was recharge the battery after it died while we were on vacation. I only lost the presets on the radio. Also noticed that my Hands Free Link icon was missing.

I removed fuse #7 as suggested on some the posts in this thread and it worked for me.

I sure hope Acura finds a solution to this problem. They might run into some angry frequent business travelers who find out that their car won't start after leaving it in long term parking at an airport.

BG74

Mine did that today while trying to pair my phone...it wouldn't pair and then the temp said ---F. I got frustrated and tried again an hour later, and it paired fine and the temp was back to normal. Weird....

Ron A

Moving this belatedly to Problems & Fixes. And Happy Birthday to this thread. One year old today.