cynep

I bought a 2008 Type S few months ago with only 18K miles. After 3k miles my clutch started slipping. On top of it - it has the infamous 3rd gear issue. Took it to Acura - long story short, tried pleading my ignorance/case to service mgr/district mgr/acura hq - told them it's my 5th acura - how about some good will clutch replacement? Didn't fly.

I tried to plead my case and say that possibly 3rd gear had something to do with clutch wearing out early but it didn't help either. Not only that - they said they won't do any work on 3rd gear unless clutch is done as well.


The car is still under MFR warranty but I was told this is not a covered repair due to it being wear/tear item. The dealer told me it would cost only 10% of what I paid for the car - e.g. $2600... I told them to stop hitting the crack pipe and unless the price included several nights' worth of their hot receptionists' undivided attention to my every need - they could suck on either one of my 4 exhaust pipes.

My mechanic will charge $500 labor +whatever parts cost to do the work. However, A) I'm not convinced I should be installing OEM components, as some threads here suggest they are crappy B) How do I get 3rd gear situation resolved? Technically Acura said they'll replace it under warranty, however I'm concerned that if my mechanic does any work they will try to get out of that as well.

Seems like it's a catch 22 situation.. unless there are other suggestions.

Next: I went through several threads and my head is full of mumble jumble. I'm not a mechanic and lack the expertise required to decipher some of the terminology. Can someone in very laymans terms outline what I need to purchase to replace my OEM clutch? Pressure plate? Flywheel? Master Cylinder? I have no idea.

Please give me a shopping list of parts I should replace. Also, without going into Mac vs PC sort of pi$$ing match, please let me know which replacement parts would work best from a standpoint of (in the order of preference) Reliablity, Durability, Comfort, Performance, Cost?

I don't mind spending extra for quality parts that can put a little zip into TL's butt... and at the same time I'm not sure I can live with a sort of clutch that will snap my or my passengers' neck every time I shift gears.

I frequently sit in traffic too - so hopefully someone can recommend something that won't require me to fit in deadlift and squat sets into my daily workout routine, just to be able to get clutch to respond.

Thanks in advance for any help.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

Go oem.
the clutch should last the life of the car, if properly driven.
I bought my clutch set from acuraoemparts.com and paid $250
then had a local mechanic install clutch for $400 on 11/5/2010.

While they were changing it, I had them Use GMSFM (GM Syncromesh Fluid Modified) and now my clutch is fixed and no more 3rd gear grind.
that is all.

*edit- to answer more of your questions
I only had to replace clutch set. if more damage has been done, you might have to get a flywheel as well. that piece is $400+
clutch set includes pressure plate.

If you're not planning to add more power(force induction, forged internals to go along) there is absolutely NO REASON to go aftermarket. like you said, all you will get is a stiff clutch that will make your calves HUGE.

cynep

How do I know whether flywheel needs to be replaced or not? Also, I noticed that while switching gears or simply placing car into neutral it took a while for RPMs to drop. My buddy told me it could possibly be sticking, in which case the ball bearing may need to be swapped out as well... Does that make any sense?

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

the only way to know if you need to replace the fly wheel is when the mechanics change out the clutch. they will measure the the flywheel and look for wear marks. if measurements are less than specs, time to replace.

Silva95teg

Was your car a CPO? Dont know if that will make a difference to you or not but youwould think they would verify the clutch is good before selling.

Silva95teg

It does RPM matching on upshifts so it pauses at the rpm it would be in at the speed you are travelling for the next gear. Hopefully that sentence makes sense

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

I bought car in Feb. CPO, but the clutch is a WEAR ITEM. I could have damaged it myself, from learning how to drive my car properly.
I think it was a combination of previous owner, test drivers, and myself.

and how do they verify if the clutch is working or not? they could drive it, and if it was performing like it should, they would have no way of knowing...our clutches are self adjusting - meaning if you wear it down, it will self adjust and feel normal.

cynep

Thanks everyone for replying - much appreciated. Keep suggestions coming - so far there's one (?) vote for OEM?

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

cynep, you should read other threads...they're all going to tell you the same. Unless you're adding serious power, Go OEM.
Also, there are problems with the aftermarkets.


then you should read about GM Syncromesh Fluid Modified Friction to solve your 3rd gear problems.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

here are some good reads talking about aftermarket clutches and they are ticking TIME BOMBS.
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...=clutchmasters
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...=clutchmasters
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...=clutchmasters - this one says good things, but the price - 2k!?!?!?!?

nfnsquared

Total BS, assuming your 3rd gear issue is indeed the well documented transmission issue and not caused by a worn clutch. There is nothing in the 3rd gearTSB requiring a clutch inspection/replacement.


True statement....

When you sit in traffic, are you keeping the clutch pressed down?

These clutches have proven themselves. I hate to tell you this, but 99% sure the clutch is worn due to misuse (intentional or unintentional).

cynep

thanks justn! so, as far as other parts - like ballbearings and so on - any suggestions? Also, what's the best place to buy these parts (besides dealer)?

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

acuraoemparts.com is actually del ray Acura in florida.
I ordered my parts from there. as i found its cheap.
but realizing that its a dealer, you could go to your local dealer and price match.

cynep

depends - I don't normally hold down clutch pressed down - I try to coast on 1st/2nd or drop into neutral. I've been driving stick shift for um... 17 years at least... Then again, I haven't been taught all the fancy heel/toe shifting you crazy kids talk about (I don't even know what that is, tbh).

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

if you want to see what my clutch looked like....
check here.
https://acurazine.com/forums/3g-tl-2004-2008-93/take-look-slightly-abused-clutch-797628/

cynep

Nah. I bought it from Infiniti dealer - the only one I could find anywhere nearby, who had a 6MT with less than 50K and in color I could live with. I actually found it by accident - I gave up on TypeS and went to shop for Infinity 6MTs. Saw this one on the lot with "sold" tag on it - turns out buyer didn't get financing and it was available.

I jumped on it without due dilligence I normaly have. Just got too excited about (in no small part due to incitement from AZ community to go for TypeS instead of Camaro SS )

01tl4tl

dont care how long you have been driving- the TL clutch is different,, including its trick way of keeping pedal FEEL good,,, all the way to the last time it will shift

coasting in 1-2? slip it in nuetral approaching lights once you know its not going green--
leave foot OFF clutch pedal while waiting at lights--causes massive wear right there, gets it hot,, and worthless useage at the same time!

use the very cheap (in comparison) brakes to slow the car- thats their job~
downshifting without intent to be in the right gear to accellerate off the apex-
is a waste of clutch material

OE parts are fine unless going more HP. try our sponsoring vendor dealers
See the vendor list at top of pages and call or PM a few
get price and ask your dealer if they will match
Ask those parts guys what the shop uses on the clutch job

NO WAY is acura going to let you bring in your trans by itself and do a warranty 3rd gear repair--get real~

make sure your guy has the correct tool to install the pressure plate- its different than most other cars,,dont be the test car they learn on

flywheel is normally ok unless you beat the car, might need a simple resurface but not replace

parts to replace: clutch disc, pressure plate, throw out bearing (thats the basic `clutch kit`) those all go in a line with each other, the bearing goes bad and whirrrs- comes from foot on pedal~

on test drives by techs- they give it a few known speed and throttle use test to see if it slips from wear or chatters from burn spots by last owner
If not- its fine!

flush clutch pedal hydraulics (master to slave cylinder), same as you do brake fluid- important to do

your tech may get a better price at dealer on the shop to shop price structure than you can get as joe nobody

01tl4tl

the old school heel toe was due to brit cars footbox design and you had to turn your foot sideways to get on the brakes with heel and toes operate brakes, as you did a shift into nuetral - then rev match and shift into the lower gear desired
That allowed trans internal speeds to match

modern cars like the TL- heel stays on the floor as pivot- use sides of foot to work brakes and blip gas on downshift
newer TL-s have an auto throttle blip feature by the computer!!

In race conditions- you would brake with left side of foot- as pedal went down it reached correct level point to use right side of foot as well- on the throttle

for average street drivers this isnt something you need to do
these cars have synchros to take care of the speed differance inside the gears

if you want to learn it- go to a high performance school- track day- lapping day at local road race track- best 200-250 bucks you can spend on the car and yourself

gwiffer

iTrader: (7)

That's crazy...your clutch is slipping after 21k miles? That has to be user error/racing.

Why are they going to charge you $2600 for the clutch replacement as part of the 3rd gear TSB (if the '08 TL-S are accepted). All the labor should be paid for by HoA. You would only be responsible for the replacement clutch, probably $500 at the dealer unless they price match (mine sure doesn't). You need to contact HoA and file a claim/complaint or atleast tell the dealer that you are going to contact HoA; they might be more receptive.

cynep

I already did - they took my complaint, gave me case number and when I asked them what action will be taken they said - "Um.. we just document your concern, no action will be taken".

I hate to say it but looks like this will be my last Acura.

nfnsquared

Oh come on now. You expect Acura to warranty a "wear and tear" item on a car you bought used from an Infinity dealer??

Dude, I'm sorry the clutch is bad, but get real....There isn't a car manufacturer in the world that would warranty your clutch in this situation....

SouthernBoy

True. To the OP;

You have to see this their way, really, They are going to see a three model year old car with 21,000 miles and a slipping clutch. If they determine that there is nothing wrong with the hydraulic system which operates the clutch, then they have pretty much no choice but to believe the the car was really abused or the driver(s) had some VERY bad habits. Providing you're not towing anything, not racing the car, and there are no mechanical problems which are outside of your control, you should expect somewhere between 8 and 10 times, or more, that kind of mileage out of a clutch. So they are almost certain to suspect very bad things have been done with this car.

I hate cars

To do the 3rd gear TSB they have to remove the trans.

Clutch is wear and tear and should not be covered. It's the same as brake pads, you wouldn't expect them to cover pads, would you? And just like brakes, type of use and technique will be the difference in 20,000 miles or 120,000 miles.

What they're trying to do is get you to pay for the labor by getting the clutch fixed since the trans has to come out for both.

Tell them you want the TSB done and you'll pay the parts cost on the new clutch, maybe a few bucks for the additional 5 minutes of labor on the clutch.

If they refuse, I would fight it. If you lose, I would tell them to do the TSB without doing the clutch just out of spite so they have to cover the labor anyway then take it to another mechanic for the clutch.

As for the Type-S vs Camaro SS, I would've gone with the SS anyday.

taoseno

see this post from a couple weeks ago

https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...t=3rd+gear+TSB

We have had the same issue but the clutch is not slipping; we have not had the warranty work done yet.............

LowLow06TLNH6

Transmission Grinds When Shifting Into 3rd Gear, Pops Out of 3rd Gear, or
Is Hard to Shift Into 3rd Gear

(Supersedes 08-018, dated April 19, 2008, to update the information marked by the black bar)
SYMPTOM

The 6-speed manual transmission grinds when shifting
into 3rd gear, pops out of 3rd gear, or is hard to shift
into 3rd gear.
NOTE: These symptoms can be intermittent and
sometimes more noticeable in colder climates.

PROBABLE CAUSE

The transmission has a faulty 3rd gear synchronizer or
3-4 shift sleeve.

CORRECTIVE ACTION

Replace the 3rd gear set.

PARTS INFORMATION

3rd Gear Set (2004–08 TL, 2003 3.2CL):
P/N 23444-RDE-315
Liquid gasket (as needed): P/N 08718-0004

Grease (as needed): P/N 08798-9002

Csmit176

I'm confused now....If the car is covered under factory warranty, will they fix this 3rd gear issue in a manual tranny?

nfnsquared

Yes.

cynep

So, what I'm hearing is that perhaps I should play a bit of a hard ball, possibly take it to another dealer. Well, if all else fails, I need a shopping list. Here's the pricing I got from the dealer (this is I guess the shop cost), please advise if I missed anything.

Clutch/Pressure Plate - $310
Flywheel - $782 (GASP!)
Throw-out bearing - $50

Holly krikey, over $1K just in PARTS!!!!!!

Any recommendations for comprable parts that wouldn't be as expensive? Man, I miss my 1986 Toyota Supra $600 (including parts) clutch job...

cynep

Bump?

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

umm i gave you where i scored my parts from.
acuraoemparts.com
pressure plate and clutch (clutch kit) came out to be $250
I didnt have to buy a flywheel, but that part is some where around the 400.

cynep

This is total BS... I went to 2 dealers, 3rd one didn't even give me a time of day on the issue. The car has been sitting in my driveway for the last 3 months, while I'm paying for insurance/car payments. The issue is - I clearly have 3rd gear issue, which I experienced about 6 times on the way to the shop. Yet, after 2 mile test drive - the mechanic declared "Nope, the problem isn't there, didn't see it." I told them that it happens at random but they said: "Well, it could be because you have a bad clutch and we can't confirm until we actually see the issue, THEREFORE we can't fix your problem under TSB, unless the issue can be duplicated."

I am just about ready to throw the towel in, bite the bullet, pay for the darn clutch replacement (at my own mechanic) and then force them to swap the 3rd gear anyway... but since they're going to have to do it ANYWAY afterward, I'm going to have to spend extra dough on labor.

F*#$ a$$h0les... Oh, and yeah. ... The car was originally owned by a woman.... from a country well known for it's technical support and customer service industry... which certainly sheds some light on what could have caused such an untimely wear/tear on clutch.

Gah!!!!!!!

KN_TL

iTrader: (3)

TSB is not a recall so a dealer can claim that they can't reproduce and send you on your way. I had the same problem but never knew when it would happen so I didn't bother.

I did do the GMSMFM fluid and the problem went away immediately.

As far as a woman owning the car, that really doesn't matter. This clutch is THE HARDEST to get used to. It wouldn't surprise me if most used 6MT's are sold with clutches on the verge of failure.

Our society is based on a certain lifespan. Nothing lasts forever, not even close.

cynep

Under normal circumstances, I would have said "ah, screw it" and went the GM fluid route, to see if it helped. However, there are two factors that really tick me off:

1. I have a 2003 RSX Type-S with the SAME EXACT problem. TSB also applies to it, obviously I'm out of warranty therefore out of luck. What pi$$es me off is that they had number of years to fix the issue and DID NOT, which makes it more than "oh, we had a faulty manufacturing process".

2. You have a customer who owned 5 ACURA and 3 Honda products over the last 15 years and has been quite loyal. In the entire time of my ownership I only had 1 minor issue that I needed to get fixed under warranty, which is a major reason why I stuck with Honda/Acura. I don't bring in the car for every minor problem but once I do and ask for SOME GOOD FAITH, e.g. "Fine, I'll pay for parts and 2 hours of labor, which is MORE than enough to replace the clutch, since you're pulling it apart for 3rd gear issue" and I get a resoundant "No, we won't help you. No, you have to pay for everything. No, there is no 3rd gear issue because we can't duplicate it".

Well, this afternoon I contacted a law firm under "Breach of Warranty" clause and they will take my case. So, we'll see how far it takes me. If it's war they want, war they get.

KN_TL

iTrader: (3)

Good Luck.

If you win and get it fixed, I would sell it immediately. You obviously don't have good relations with several dealers and their loyalty to you could be returned in spades.

I only have one dealer here but they are very professional and courteous.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

I mean, I would have just done the GMSFM and be done with it.

cynep

it's not just a 3rd gear / GMSFM - the clutch is also busted, in case it was "tl;dr". I'm trying to kill 2 birds with one stone - 3rd gear + clutch = less labor costs.

Let's see what happens but so far it's been a horrid experience.

KN_TL

iTrader: (3)

Sometimes I am embarrassed to be in the same company of some people.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

I did it the opposite way....2 birds with one stone...
as i got my clutch replaced, I asked my mechanic to use GM syncromesh

cynep

You're not. And no one forced you to click or participate. Troll on, bro...

csmeance

Call up acura client services and tell them of your issue. Tell them you've owned X number of honda products and have had an amazing experience with each and every one and now this one has given you such a headache. Tell them that the dealer isn't cooperating and blaming the clutch right off the back without doing any sort of diagnostics.

NEVER say that you will never buy another honda product. Tell them that look, I just want this made right. I can understand that a manual transmission's clutch is wear and tear and the car has Y miles on it. You guys fix the 3rd gear issue I'm having and I'll pay for the clutch parts or I pay 25% or something.

Talk to them and see what happens! With my Automatic, my SA talked to the regional rep and arranged a great deal for me. Honda stepped up to the plate and agreed that an auto trans shouldn't fail so early.

Be calm during the conversation and explain your fustration to them. Don't yell, don't get angry and use logical reasoning.