My full transmission history. Where I'm at now. Where am I going?
03-26-2014, 12:12 PM
#1
My full transmission history. Where I'm at now. Where am I going?
I’ve been experiencing quite a bit of distress from my transmission lately. I wanted to post my story so far. I know you must be thinking “NO, not another tranny thread!” lol. I know this will be LONG and detailed. Up till now I've been just posting bits and pieces of what's happened over time. I don’t post many threads, but I thought I might as well explain the full history chronologically and maybe it will make more sense. Hopefully I can learn something here and others can learn too.
My car is driven very easy; I had it since new in 2006. I don't abuse it and I am the king of hyper milling. For example my original brake pads lasted till 110k miles and still had life in them. My only sin is over-maintenance if anything. I never thought the tranny needed much attention. I just went according the manual and didn't think I needed to worry about it until over 100k. But lately it’s gotten bad enough that I've thought I might have to swap out the tranny. But before I decided to go extreme. I wanted to take conservative measures, of course, and see what I could do.
By 12/2010 my car was at 93k and I had my 105k timing belt service done. It was my first and only major service at the dealer. I thought I might as well do a tranny drain and fill. The car was driving completely fine, no problems at all with shifting. I just thought it would be good preventative maintenance. I asked them if they do the procedure as recommend with 3x3. They said "Of course! Don't be silly. We do this all the time etc." Checked the receipt when I got home to find they only did a 1x3. OF COURSE. Idiots. At the time Z1 was still the OEM fluid, so that's what they used.
With the threads advising about tranny switches, I decided why not, I now had fresh fluid. It should help, it can't harm. And it definitely made a world of difference. Although I thought my car was OK, I didn't realize how much it had changed from when it was new. Now shifts were on point, buttery smooth and positive. Never any hesitation, like the day I drove it off the dealer’s lot.
By about 6 months it started to lose that effect and the tranny started acting sloppy and goofy at times. Especially at partial throttle on an incline. Most of the times shifting would be smooth, but rarely it would awkwardly downshift and thud into place. Or on a highway on-ramp, it would hesitate some times. The car would respond well better with a heavy foot. But there was never any slipping. I thought OK, time to get rid of that Z1 fluid.
10/2013 I did the switches again. Car was at 117k. I forgot to buy washers for them so I reused them. This time I did Redline D4 and did a 1x3. I prefer a smooth shift. The old fluid was pretty dark, I was glad to change it. It did have a strong smell to it. Not really a burnt smell, but definitely not that fresh fluid smell either. The magnetic plug had about a 1/4" of black "goop" on it. No metallic shavings on it though. But what concerned me more is that I saw transmission fluid on the plastic tray cover when I went under the car. It was a slow leak there was no fluid on the garage floor. Fluid was not dripping and the residue was grimy. I cleaned it up so I could source it on my next 1x3. Drove the car and felt an immediate difference, just like last time. I was happy. But this time around the effect only lasted a week. The car started to act screwy again. Just like it was before. But what concerned me more is the car now was now actively dripping tranny fluid in 2 places with the new fluid in. Now I was getting annoyed. Mind you, just 10k ago this car was completely normal and it now felt like it was falling apart. Also there was an increased delay in shifting from R out of the garage and into D when the car was cold. I know 2-3 seconds is normal, but this was more like 5 seconds. It would normalize when the car was warm. I was now religiously checking fluid levels every other drive, so I know this was not an issue.
11/2013 I realized the main obvious leak was coming from one of the tranny switches because I reused the washer. Ordered new ones and that fixed that. I looked for where the other minor leak was coming from. Hard to tell but it seemed like it was from the main seal under the tranny. It seemed to be limited to the lower part, no evidence that it was coming from higher up. There is a small squarish metal plate underneath the curves inwards. I don't know what that is for, but I suspected that it was leaking from the sides of that too. As suggested on one of the threads I decided to use the Mighty Putty on it. Having used this stuff before, I know it is effective, but tricky to use, especially if the tranny fluid gets on it. Not easy to work with, the main issue was to get it to stick to the tranny housing. I did another 1x3 with Redline D4. The old fluid was dark but not as much as last time.
Again the car ran great for the first week. The shifts were now more buttery smooth than ever. Thank goodness the leak now stopped for the most part, some residue, but at least it wasn’t dripping. Slowly over the next month the shifting got worse and worse. What I noticed the most is that the car now took an even LONGER time to shift from R into D when the engine was cold. It would take about 8 seconds. When warm it would still take at least 5 seconds. If the car was put back into P when it was cold, the tranny would actually make a slight grinding noise. By 1/2014 the 4th gear would slip occasionally. It would catch me by surprise so I’d let go of the accelerator and the car would catch the gear again. As the weeks went by I noticed the car have difficulty settling into 4th gear. It would go from 3rd and do a weird dip into 4th. It wouldn’t settle in and the car would not rev smoothly in 4th dipping up and down at times. Sometimes it would give up and just downshift itself into 3rd. By 3/2014 4th gear was consistently slipping. I would get around it by SportShifting from 3-5th and back to avoid 4th. This is when I thought OK. My tranny is toast, time to swap this out. But I couldn’t help but think that the fluid had a lot more to do with it than the tranny itself. Ironically shifting was incredibly smooth but the way the tranny was behaving was lazy and slow. As if it was coated in molasses for lack of a better word. I thought to try thinning the fluid out to see if it makes a difference. I wasn’t hoping for much.
5 days ago I did 1 Redline Lightweight Racing with 2 Redline Racing fill. The car is at 119.5k miles. The leak I fixed was holding up. Light residue that’s all. I checked the magnetic plug. About ¼” black “goop” on it again. I really expected to see visible metal somewhere in it. Nope, just black. The tranny fluid was darker than last time though. I only got out 2.75qts this time, all other times I was able to get out 3qts. Again it makes me feel like the old fluid was like molasses.
From the moment I got out of the garage I could tell a difference. The R to D delay was back to about 2-5 seconds. Not totally normal, but half the time of before. The car now lost it’s buttery smooth shifting. Not that it is rough in any way but shifts are more perceptible, especially 1-2nd. There is some mild flare sometimes as well. I know all this is expected, it doesn’t bother me as long as it’s not doing damage. Now the car is having NO problem shifting into 4th. It has not slipped even once since. The car is almost back to normal EXCEPT now it has a weird lazy upshift into 5th. It does a premature shift into 5th at about 40-45mph. It’s as if it tries to dip into it at too low revs and tries to catch the gear. If I pull up speed above 55mph its fine. I don’t know if I should reset the shift logic by disconnecting the battery maybe?
So at this point I’m glad the car is MUCH better, but I don’t feel safe on long trips anymore. How long will this last? I always knew the importance of the right amount/type/balance of tranny fluid. That’s why I didn’t want to mess with it in the first place. In some ways I wonder if I had totally left it alone, would I be better off? Was this all more harm than help? Like I said, this car was totally normal just 15k miles ago and the car is still flawless except for this. I knew TLs had a history of tranny problems before I bought one but I thought that was just 2GTLs buying a 2006 was safe. It is now my #1 hesitation from considering a TLX, unless they offer a manual. I'm done with automatics.
One thing I haven’t done yet is the tranny filter. I know I need to do that and it’s next on my list. I don’t mind more positive shifts but I am wondering if all this Redline mixing chemistry is useful. I don’t want to make things worse on my next 1x3. Would a DW-1 3x3 be better? Or is the tranny swap just an inevitable truth of owning a 3GTL?
My car is driven very easy; I had it since new in 2006. I don't abuse it and I am the king of hyper milling. For example my original brake pads lasted till 110k miles and still had life in them. My only sin is over-maintenance if anything. I never thought the tranny needed much attention. I just went according the manual and didn't think I needed to worry about it until over 100k. But lately it’s gotten bad enough that I've thought I might have to swap out the tranny. But before I decided to go extreme. I wanted to take conservative measures, of course, and see what I could do.
By 12/2010 my car was at 93k and I had my 105k timing belt service done. It was my first and only major service at the dealer. I thought I might as well do a tranny drain and fill. The car was driving completely fine, no problems at all with shifting. I just thought it would be good preventative maintenance. I asked them if they do the procedure as recommend with 3x3. They said "Of course! Don't be silly. We do this all the time etc." Checked the receipt when I got home to find they only did a 1x3. OF COURSE. Idiots. At the time Z1 was still the OEM fluid, so that's what they used.
With the threads advising about tranny switches, I decided why not, I now had fresh fluid. It should help, it can't harm. And it definitely made a world of difference. Although I thought my car was OK, I didn't realize how much it had changed from when it was new. Now shifts were on point, buttery smooth and positive. Never any hesitation, like the day I drove it off the dealer’s lot.
By about 6 months it started to lose that effect and the tranny started acting sloppy and goofy at times. Especially at partial throttle on an incline. Most of the times shifting would be smooth, but rarely it would awkwardly downshift and thud into place. Or on a highway on-ramp, it would hesitate some times. The car would respond well better with a heavy foot. But there was never any slipping. I thought OK, time to get rid of that Z1 fluid.
10/2013 I did the switches again. Car was at 117k. I forgot to buy washers for them so I reused them. This time I did Redline D4 and did a 1x3. I prefer a smooth shift. The old fluid was pretty dark, I was glad to change it. It did have a strong smell to it. Not really a burnt smell, but definitely not that fresh fluid smell either. The magnetic plug had about a 1/4" of black "goop" on it. No metallic shavings on it though. But what concerned me more is that I saw transmission fluid on the plastic tray cover when I went under the car. It was a slow leak there was no fluid on the garage floor. Fluid was not dripping and the residue was grimy. I cleaned it up so I could source it on my next 1x3. Drove the car and felt an immediate difference, just like last time. I was happy. But this time around the effect only lasted a week. The car started to act screwy again. Just like it was before. But what concerned me more is the car now was now actively dripping tranny fluid in 2 places with the new fluid in. Now I was getting annoyed. Mind you, just 10k ago this car was completely normal and it now felt like it was falling apart. Also there was an increased delay in shifting from R out of the garage and into D when the car was cold. I know 2-3 seconds is normal, but this was more like 5 seconds. It would normalize when the car was warm. I was now religiously checking fluid levels every other drive, so I know this was not an issue.
11/2013 I realized the main obvious leak was coming from one of the tranny switches because I reused the washer. Ordered new ones and that fixed that. I looked for where the other minor leak was coming from. Hard to tell but it seemed like it was from the main seal under the tranny. It seemed to be limited to the lower part, no evidence that it was coming from higher up. There is a small squarish metal plate underneath the curves inwards. I don't know what that is for, but I suspected that it was leaking from the sides of that too. As suggested on one of the threads I decided to use the Mighty Putty on it. Having used this stuff before, I know it is effective, but tricky to use, especially if the tranny fluid gets on it. Not easy to work with, the main issue was to get it to stick to the tranny housing. I did another 1x3 with Redline D4. The old fluid was dark but not as much as last time.
Again the car ran great for the first week. The shifts were now more buttery smooth than ever. Thank goodness the leak now stopped for the most part, some residue, but at least it wasn’t dripping. Slowly over the next month the shifting got worse and worse. What I noticed the most is that the car now took an even LONGER time to shift from R into D when the engine was cold. It would take about 8 seconds. When warm it would still take at least 5 seconds. If the car was put back into P when it was cold, the tranny would actually make a slight grinding noise. By 1/2014 the 4th gear would slip occasionally. It would catch me by surprise so I’d let go of the accelerator and the car would catch the gear again. As the weeks went by I noticed the car have difficulty settling into 4th gear. It would go from 3rd and do a weird dip into 4th. It wouldn’t settle in and the car would not rev smoothly in 4th dipping up and down at times. Sometimes it would give up and just downshift itself into 3rd. By 3/2014 4th gear was consistently slipping. I would get around it by SportShifting from 3-5th and back to avoid 4th. This is when I thought OK. My tranny is toast, time to swap this out. But I couldn’t help but think that the fluid had a lot more to do with it than the tranny itself. Ironically shifting was incredibly smooth but the way the tranny was behaving was lazy and slow. As if it was coated in molasses for lack of a better word. I thought to try thinning the fluid out to see if it makes a difference. I wasn’t hoping for much.
5 days ago I did 1 Redline Lightweight Racing with 2 Redline Racing fill. The car is at 119.5k miles. The leak I fixed was holding up. Light residue that’s all. I checked the magnetic plug. About ¼” black “goop” on it again. I really expected to see visible metal somewhere in it. Nope, just black. The tranny fluid was darker than last time though. I only got out 2.75qts this time, all other times I was able to get out 3qts. Again it makes me feel like the old fluid was like molasses.
From the moment I got out of the garage I could tell a difference. The R to D delay was back to about 2-5 seconds. Not totally normal, but half the time of before. The car now lost it’s buttery smooth shifting. Not that it is rough in any way but shifts are more perceptible, especially 1-2nd. There is some mild flare sometimes as well. I know all this is expected, it doesn’t bother me as long as it’s not doing damage. Now the car is having NO problem shifting into 4th. It has not slipped even once since. The car is almost back to normal EXCEPT now it has a weird lazy upshift into 5th. It does a premature shift into 5th at about 40-45mph. It’s as if it tries to dip into it at too low revs and tries to catch the gear. If I pull up speed above 55mph its fine. I don’t know if I should reset the shift logic by disconnecting the battery maybe?
So at this point I’m glad the car is MUCH better, but I don’t feel safe on long trips anymore. How long will this last? I always knew the importance of the right amount/type/balance of tranny fluid. That’s why I didn’t want to mess with it in the first place. In some ways I wonder if I had totally left it alone, would I be better off? Was this all more harm than help? Like I said, this car was totally normal just 15k miles ago and the car is still flawless except for this. I knew TLs had a history of tranny problems before I bought one but I thought that was just 2GTLs buying a 2006 was safe. It is now my #1 hesitation from considering a TLX, unless they offer a manual. I'm done with automatics.
One thing I haven’t done yet is the tranny filter. I know I need to do that and it’s next on my list. I don’t mind more positive shifts but I am wondering if all this Redline mixing chemistry is useful. I don’t want to make things worse on my next 1x3. Would a DW-1 3x3 be better? Or is the tranny swap just an inevitable truth of owning a 3GTL?
Last edited by rockyfeller; 03-26-2014 at 12:16 PM.
03-26-2014, 12:32 PM
#3
I remember when I bought the car I was married at the time. My ex said go for the 6MT. She preferred auto but didn't mind learning. Yea OK. She's not the sharpest tool in the shed. Ditz is an understatement. We were living in downtown Chicago at the time and I took the train to work. She'd be the one driving the new TL in rush hour everyday. I thought ummmmm NO! That's not going to work out. lol.
Right before doing the paperwork for my car I asked the dealer if I could take a 6MT for a spin just to "make sure" I wanted the auto. I can remember that drive vividly.
Came back and said grudgingly "Yea, I'll have to take the automatic." The dealer asked me "Are you sure?" I said "No, but I have to." And so I went against my gut of course, and this is the biggest regret in owning this car. Why? Because if you read carefully I did it for my EX. Blah!
Should have loved my TL more.
Right before doing the paperwork for my car I asked the dealer if I could take a 6MT for a spin just to "make sure" I wanted the auto. I can remember that drive vividly.
Came back and said grudgingly "Yea, I'll have to take the automatic." The dealer asked me "Are you sure?" I said "No, but I have to." And so I went against my gut of course, and this is the biggest regret in owning this car. Why? Because if you read carefully I did it for my EX. Blah! Should have loved my TL more.
Last edited by rockyfeller; 03-26-2014 at 12:35 PM.
03-26-2014, 09:20 PM
#4
Racer
Okay so are you thinking the redline D4 is doing more harm than good? I actually just bought 10 quarts to do a 3x3 when I have time, starting to hesitate now. I just did my switches last weekend, haven't had any issues so far with my transmission and its on 143K. Although when putting it into R or D it does take a few seconds to engage which is annoying.
03-27-2014, 10:22 AM
#5
I am no expert regarding the transmission, like some of those who are on the forum. This is just my one-off experience and from what I've read I haven't really heard anyone else with the same story. I did D4 because many have seemed to do well with it. But in my case, not so much. D4 has more friction modifiers. It is made for a smoother shift and should suit the majority of driving styles out there. In my case it just didn't gel with my tranny. Whether it did more harm than good; I'm not sure, that is precisely my question.
In my case the tranny was acting a bit screwy before and the D4 made it really worse. Now I thinned it out, yes, but it still doesn't feel totally normal. So does the fault totally lie with the D4 or the tranny itself? I am pretty sure the experts will fault my tranny. The only way I will know that for sure is on my next 1x3. If it improves to the extent that it IS back to normal, then I'll know for sure it was the D4 at fault.
Your case is not the same. It sounds like your tranny has been fine, and most accounts say that D4 works well for them. So why not try it? I'd ask IHC our resident genius on the topic.
In my case the tranny was acting a bit screwy before and the D4 made it really worse. Now I thinned it out, yes, but it still doesn't feel totally normal. So does the fault totally lie with the D4 or the tranny itself? I am pretty sure the experts will fault my tranny. The only way I will know that for sure is on my next 1x3. If it improves to the extent that it IS back to normal, then I'll know for sure it was the D4 at fault.
Your case is not the same. It sounds like your tranny has been fine, and most accounts say that D4 works well for them. So why not try it? I'd ask IHC our resident genius on the topic.
Last edited by rockyfeller; 03-27-2014 at 10:26 AM.
03-27-2014, 06:48 PM
#6
Senior Moderator
If I remember correctly D4 is slightly thicker than Z1 and much thicker than DW1. I hate cars posted here about fricition modifiers and I feel that is the "smooth" shift part of the equation, but at this mileage you can't have your cake and eat it too! 
With all the fluid, time and stress put into this, I feel as if you should either get the trans rebuilt or replaced, or you trade in to an 2007+ with 6MT and make yourself happy.
With all the fluid, time and stress put into this, I feel as if you should either get the trans rebuilt or replaced, or you trade in to an 2007+ with 6MT and make yourself happy.
03-27-2014, 07:43 PM
#7
Burning Brakes
I’ve been experiencing quite a bit of distress from my transmission lately. I wanted to post my story so far. I know you must be thinking “NO, not another tranny thread!” lol. I know this will be LONG and detailed. Up till now I've been just posting bits and pieces of what's happened over time. I don’t post many threads, but I thought I might as well explain the full history chronologically and maybe it will make more sense. Hopefully I can learn something here and others can learn too.
My car is driven very easy; I had it since new in 2006. I don't abuse it and I am the king of hyper milling. For example my original brake pads lasted till 110k miles and still had life in them. My only sin is over-maintenance if anything. I never thought the tranny needed much attention. I just went according the manual and didn't think I needed to worry about it until over 100k. But lately it’s gotten bad enough that I've thought I might have to swap out the tranny. But before I decided to go extreme. I wanted to take conservative measures, of course, and see what I could do.
By 12/2010 my car was at 93k and I had my 105k timing belt service done. It was my first and only major service at the dealer. I thought I might as well do a tranny drain and fill. The car was driving completely fine, no problems at all with shifting. I just thought it would be good preventative maintenance. I asked them if they do the procedure as recommend with 3x3. They said "Of course! Don't be silly. We do this all the time etc." Checked the receipt when I got home to find they only did a 1x3. OF COURSE. Idiots. At the time Z1 was still the OEM fluid, so that's what they used.
With the threads advising about tranny switches, I decided why not, I now had fresh fluid. It should help, it can't harm. And it definitely made a world of difference. Although I thought my car was OK, I didn't realize how much it had changed from when it was new. Now shifts were on point, buttery smooth and positive. Never any hesitation, like the day I drove it off the dealer’s lot.
By about 6 months it started to lose that effect and the tranny started acting sloppy and goofy at times. Especially at partial throttle on an incline. Most of the times shifting would be smooth, but rarely it would awkwardly downshift and thud into place. Or on a highway on-ramp, it would hesitate some times. The car would respond well better with a heavy foot. But there was never any slipping. I thought OK, time to get rid of that Z1 fluid.
10/2013 I did the switches again. Car was at 117k. I forgot to buy washers for them so I reused them. This time I did Redline D4 and did a 1x3. I prefer a smooth shift. The old fluid was pretty dark, I was glad to change it. It did have a strong smell to it. Not really a burnt smell, but definitely not that fresh fluid smell either. The magnetic plug had about a 1/4" of black "goop" on it. No metallic shavings on it though. But what concerned me more is that I saw transmission fluid on the plastic tray cover when I went under the car. It was a slow leak there was no fluid on the garage floor. Fluid was not dripping and the residue was grimy. I cleaned it up so I could source it on my next 1x3. Drove the car and felt an immediate difference, just like last time. I was happy. But this time around the effect only lasted a week. The car started to act screwy again. Just like it was before. But what concerned me more is the car now was now actively dripping tranny fluid in 2 places with the new fluid in. Now I was getting annoyed. Mind you, just 10k ago this car was completely normal and it now felt like it was falling apart. Also there was an increased delay in shifting from R out of the garage and into D when the car was cold. I know 2-3 seconds is normal, but this was more like 5 seconds. It would normalize when the car was warm. I was now religiously checking fluid levels every other drive, so I know this was not an issue.
11/2013 I realized the main obvious leak was coming from one of the tranny switches because I reused the washer. Ordered new ones and that fixed that. I looked for where the other minor leak was coming from. Hard to tell but it seemed like it was from the main seal under the tranny. It seemed to be limited to the lower part, no evidence that it was coming from higher up. There is a small squarish metal plate underneath the curves inwards. I don't know what that is for, but I suspected that it was leaking from the sides of that too. As suggested on one of the threads I decided to use the Mighty Putty on it. Having used this stuff before, I know it is effective, but tricky to use, especially if the tranny fluid gets on it. Not easy to work with, the main issue was to get it to stick to the tranny housing. I did another 1x3 with Redline D4. The old fluid was dark but not as much as last time.
Again the car ran great for the first week. The shifts were now more buttery smooth than ever. Thank goodness the leak now stopped for the most part, some residue, but at least it wasn’t dripping. Slowly over the next month the shifting got worse and worse. What I noticed the most is that the car now took an even LONGER time to shift from R into D when the engine was cold. It would take about 8 seconds. When warm it would still take at least 5 seconds. If the car was put back into P when it was cold, the tranny would actually make a slight grinding noise. By 1/2014 the 4th gear would slip occasionally. It would catch me by surprise so I’d let go of the accelerator and the car would catch the gear again. As the weeks went by I noticed the car have difficulty settling into 4th gear. It would go from 3rd and do a weird dip into 4th. It wouldn’t settle in and the car would not rev smoothly in 4th dipping up and down at times. Sometimes it would give up and just downshift itself into 3rd. By 3/2014 4th gear was consistently slipping. I would get around it by SportShifting from 3-5th and back to avoid 4th. This is when I thought OK. My tranny is toast, time to swap this out. But I couldn’t help but think that the fluid had a lot more to do with it than the tranny itself. Ironically shifting was incredibly smooth but the way the tranny was behaving was lazy and slow. As if it was coated in molasses for lack of a better word. I thought to try thinning the fluid out to see if it makes a difference. I wasn’t hoping for much.
5 days ago I did 1 Redline Lightweight Racing with 2 Redline Racing fill. The car is at 119.5k miles. The leak I fixed was holding up. Light residue that’s all. I checked the magnetic plug. About ¼” black “goop” on it again. I really expected to see visible metal somewhere in it. Nope, just black. The tranny fluid was darker than last time though. I only got out 2.75qts this time, all other times I was able to get out 3qts. Again it makes me feel like the old fluid was like molasses.
From the moment I got out of the garage I could tell a difference. The R to D delay was back to about 2-5 seconds. Not totally normal, but half the time of before. The car now lost it’s buttery smooth shifting. Not that it is rough in any way but shifts are more perceptible, especially 1-2nd. There is some mild flare sometimes as well. I know all this is expected, it doesn’t bother me as long as it’s not doing damage. Now the car is having NO problem shifting into 4th. It has not slipped even once since. The car is almost back to normal EXCEPT now it has a weird lazy upshift into 5th. It does a premature shift into 5th at about 40-45mph. It’s as if it tries to dip into it at too low revs and tries to catch the gear. If I pull up speed above 55mph its fine. I don’t know if I should reset the shift logic by disconnecting the battery maybe?
So at this point I’m glad the car is MUCH better, but I don’t feel safe on long trips anymore. How long will this last? I always knew the importance of the right amount/type/balance of tranny fluid. That’s why I didn’t want to mess with it in the first place. In some ways I wonder if I had totally left it alone, would I be better off? Was this all more harm than help? Like I said, this car was totally normal just 15k miles ago and the car is still flawless except for this. I knew TLs had a history of tranny problems before I bought one but I thought that was just 2GTLs buying a 2006 was safe. It is now my #1 hesitation from considering a TLX, unless they offer a manual. I'm done with automatics.
One thing I haven’t done yet is the tranny filter. I know I need to do that and it’s next on my list. I don’t mind more positive shifts but I am wondering if all this Redline mixing chemistry is useful. I don’t want to make things worse on my next 1x3. Would a DW-1 3x3 be better? Or is the tranny swap just an inevitable truth of owning a 3GTL?
My car is driven very easy; I had it since new in 2006. I don't abuse it and I am the king of hyper milling. For example my original brake pads lasted till 110k miles and still had life in them. My only sin is over-maintenance if anything. I never thought the tranny needed much attention. I just went according the manual and didn't think I needed to worry about it until over 100k. But lately it’s gotten bad enough that I've thought I might have to swap out the tranny. But before I decided to go extreme. I wanted to take conservative measures, of course, and see what I could do.
By 12/2010 my car was at 93k and I had my 105k timing belt service done. It was my first and only major service at the dealer. I thought I might as well do a tranny drain and fill. The car was driving completely fine, no problems at all with shifting. I just thought it would be good preventative maintenance. I asked them if they do the procedure as recommend with 3x3. They said "Of course! Don't be silly. We do this all the time etc." Checked the receipt when I got home to find they only did a 1x3. OF COURSE. Idiots. At the time Z1 was still the OEM fluid, so that's what they used.
With the threads advising about tranny switches, I decided why not, I now had fresh fluid. It should help, it can't harm. And it definitely made a world of difference. Although I thought my car was OK, I didn't realize how much it had changed from when it was new. Now shifts were on point, buttery smooth and positive. Never any hesitation, like the day I drove it off the dealer’s lot.
By about 6 months it started to lose that effect and the tranny started acting sloppy and goofy at times. Especially at partial throttle on an incline. Most of the times shifting would be smooth, but rarely it would awkwardly downshift and thud into place. Or on a highway on-ramp, it would hesitate some times. The car would respond well better with a heavy foot. But there was never any slipping. I thought OK, time to get rid of that Z1 fluid.
10/2013 I did the switches again. Car was at 117k. I forgot to buy washers for them so I reused them. This time I did Redline D4 and did a 1x3. I prefer a smooth shift. The old fluid was pretty dark, I was glad to change it. It did have a strong smell to it. Not really a burnt smell, but definitely not that fresh fluid smell either. The magnetic plug had about a 1/4" of black "goop" on it. No metallic shavings on it though. But what concerned me more is that I saw transmission fluid on the plastic tray cover when I went under the car. It was a slow leak there was no fluid on the garage floor. Fluid was not dripping and the residue was grimy. I cleaned it up so I could source it on my next 1x3. Drove the car and felt an immediate difference, just like last time. I was happy. But this time around the effect only lasted a week. The car started to act screwy again. Just like it was before. But what concerned me more is the car now was now actively dripping tranny fluid in 2 places with the new fluid in. Now I was getting annoyed. Mind you, just 10k ago this car was completely normal and it now felt like it was falling apart. Also there was an increased delay in shifting from R out of the garage and into D when the car was cold. I know 2-3 seconds is normal, but this was more like 5 seconds. It would normalize when the car was warm. I was now religiously checking fluid levels every other drive, so I know this was not an issue.
11/2013 I realized the main obvious leak was coming from one of the tranny switches because I reused the washer. Ordered new ones and that fixed that. I looked for where the other minor leak was coming from. Hard to tell but it seemed like it was from the main seal under the tranny. It seemed to be limited to the lower part, no evidence that it was coming from higher up. There is a small squarish metal plate underneath the curves inwards. I don't know what that is for, but I suspected that it was leaking from the sides of that too. As suggested on one of the threads I decided to use the Mighty Putty on it. Having used this stuff before, I know it is effective, but tricky to use, especially if the tranny fluid gets on it. Not easy to work with, the main issue was to get it to stick to the tranny housing. I did another 1x3 with Redline D4. The old fluid was dark but not as much as last time.
Again the car ran great for the first week. The shifts were now more buttery smooth than ever. Thank goodness the leak now stopped for the most part, some residue, but at least it wasn’t dripping. Slowly over the next month the shifting got worse and worse. What I noticed the most is that the car now took an even LONGER time to shift from R into D when the engine was cold. It would take about 8 seconds. When warm it would still take at least 5 seconds. If the car was put back into P when it was cold, the tranny would actually make a slight grinding noise. By 1/2014 the 4th gear would slip occasionally. It would catch me by surprise so I’d let go of the accelerator and the car would catch the gear again. As the weeks went by I noticed the car have difficulty settling into 4th gear. It would go from 3rd and do a weird dip into 4th. It wouldn’t settle in and the car would not rev smoothly in 4th dipping up and down at times. Sometimes it would give up and just downshift itself into 3rd. By 3/2014 4th gear was consistently slipping. I would get around it by SportShifting from 3-5th and back to avoid 4th. This is when I thought OK. My tranny is toast, time to swap this out. But I couldn’t help but think that the fluid had a lot more to do with it than the tranny itself. Ironically shifting was incredibly smooth but the way the tranny was behaving was lazy and slow. As if it was coated in molasses for lack of a better word. I thought to try thinning the fluid out to see if it makes a difference. I wasn’t hoping for much.
5 days ago I did 1 Redline Lightweight Racing with 2 Redline Racing fill. The car is at 119.5k miles. The leak I fixed was holding up. Light residue that’s all. I checked the magnetic plug. About ¼” black “goop” on it again. I really expected to see visible metal somewhere in it. Nope, just black. The tranny fluid was darker than last time though. I only got out 2.75qts this time, all other times I was able to get out 3qts. Again it makes me feel like the old fluid was like molasses.
From the moment I got out of the garage I could tell a difference. The R to D delay was back to about 2-5 seconds. Not totally normal, but half the time of before. The car now lost it’s buttery smooth shifting. Not that it is rough in any way but shifts are more perceptible, especially 1-2nd. There is some mild flare sometimes as well. I know all this is expected, it doesn’t bother me as long as it’s not doing damage. Now the car is having NO problem shifting into 4th. It has not slipped even once since. The car is almost back to normal EXCEPT now it has a weird lazy upshift into 5th. It does a premature shift into 5th at about 40-45mph. It’s as if it tries to dip into it at too low revs and tries to catch the gear. If I pull up speed above 55mph its fine. I don’t know if I should reset the shift logic by disconnecting the battery maybe?
So at this point I’m glad the car is MUCH better, but I don’t feel safe on long trips anymore. How long will this last? I always knew the importance of the right amount/type/balance of tranny fluid. That’s why I didn’t want to mess with it in the first place. In some ways I wonder if I had totally left it alone, would I be better off? Was this all more harm than help? Like I said, this car was totally normal just 15k miles ago and the car is still flawless except for this. I knew TLs had a history of tranny problems before I bought one but I thought that was just 2GTLs buying a 2006 was safe. It is now my #1 hesitation from considering a TLX, unless they offer a manual. I'm done with automatics.
One thing I haven’t done yet is the tranny filter. I know I need to do that and it’s next on my list. I don’t mind more positive shifts but I am wondering if all this Redline mixing chemistry is useful. I don’t want to make things worse on my next 1x3. Would a DW-1 3x3 be better? Or is the tranny swap just an inevitable truth of owning a 3GTL?
But my car has yet to fail to engage into gears etc. But when I got my car at 98k miles 3 years ago. I used DW-1 only, than around 120k I began using Redline D4 which IHC stated protects the tranny more than DW-1 long term.
So I stuck with doing changes every other oil change. Up until recently like 10k miles ago I did mixture of Redline 1 D4 and 2 Racing Fluid as opposed to the 3 Racing Fluid.
The shifts were much more pronounce, less smooth not feeling a jerk in shift kind of feel.
I could live with it if I knew I was protecting the tranny long term.
But now I feel the tranny is getting sloppy again and I'm not due for another oil change since I'm at 40% (planning to just stick with reg. D4 ATF) I hope this is not a sign of major clutch wear and my tranny is taking a dump.
I'm at 155k exactly today on the original tranny. I've tried to stay on top of fresh fluid changes but college has been sucking most of my time especially this school year.
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03-27-2014, 09:32 PM
#8
If I remember correctly D4 is slightly thicker than Z1 and much thicker than DW1. I hate cars posted here about fricition modifiers and I feel that is the "smooth" shift part of the equation, but at this mileage you can't have your cake and eat it too!
With all the fluid, time and stress put into this, I feel as if you should either get the trans rebuilt or replaced, or you trade in to an 2007+ with 6MT and make yourself happy.
With all the fluid, time and stress put into this, I feel as if you should either get the trans rebuilt or replaced, or you trade in to an 2007+ with 6MT and make yourself happy.
I did consider getting an 08 Type-S 6MT a couple years ago, that's when I should have sold it, when it was under 100K. Honestly there is one HUGE thing that keeps me here with the 3GTL. Overall it still is the best car I've owned. I planned and knew exactly how I wanted it to look before I bought it. And I got it there. I put so much time and energy into modding it that I hate to let it go. But maybe I just have to realize this phase is over and it's time to let go.
I don't think I'll go to this extent with my next car. But then again, I'm an idiot, I always say that and get carried away again. "Yeah just rims and tint.....and exhaust, that's it done......and coilovers.......and subs of course.....and"
But yeah. It would be nice to have a car where I can park it outside my garage and walk away and not worry about it as much. I don't have that kind of peace of mind with this car, it really is stressful. I can't say that to my friends because they laugh at me, only you guys will understand. Living near NYC that is quite a tradeoff and limits a lot of options when you want to get around. Don't get me wrong, it is awesome to have a head turning car but the tradeoff is that you always have to worry about parking and usually pay through the nose for it one way or another.
And yea a beater car would be the sensible plan. I had money saved. Went and bought a 1000cc superbike instead, lol. Like I said, I don't always stick to the sensible plan. Well at least I'm saving money on parking.
Last edited by rockyfeller; 03-27-2014 at 09:41 PM.
03-27-2014, 10:12 PM
#10
Everything in the first half of your thread is what I am going through right now especially the hill driving.
But my car has yet to fail to engage into gears etc. But when I got my car at 98k miles 3 years ago. I used DW-1 only, than around 120k I began using Redline D4 which IHC stated protects the tranny more than DW-1 long term.
So I stuck with doing changes every other oil change. Up until recently like 10k miles ago I did mixture of Redline 1 D4 and 2 Racing Fluid as opposed to the 3 Racing Fluid.
The shifts were much more pronounce, less smooth not feeling a jerk in shift kind of feel.
I could live with it if I knew I was protecting the tranny long term.
But now I feel the tranny is getting sloppy again and I'm not due for another oil change since I'm at 40% (planning to just stick with reg. D4 ATF) I hope this is not a sign of major clutch wear and my tranny is taking a dump.
I'm at 155k exactly today on the original tranny. I've tried to stay on top of fresh fluid changes but college has been sucking most of my time especially this school year.
But my car has yet to fail to engage into gears etc. But when I got my car at 98k miles 3 years ago. I used DW-1 only, than around 120k I began using Redline D4 which IHC stated protects the tranny more than DW-1 long term.
So I stuck with doing changes every other oil change. Up until recently like 10k miles ago I did mixture of Redline 1 D4 and 2 Racing Fluid as opposed to the 3 Racing Fluid.
The shifts were much more pronounce, less smooth not feeling a jerk in shift kind of feel.
I could live with it if I knew I was protecting the tranny long term.
But now I feel the tranny is getting sloppy again and I'm not due for another oil change since I'm at 40% (planning to just stick with reg. D4 ATF) I hope this is not a sign of major clutch wear and my tranny is taking a dump.
I'm at 155k exactly today on the original tranny. I've tried to stay on top of fresh fluid changes but college has been sucking most of my time especially this school year.
So I guess your shifts are the same as mine. It's liveable, I don't mind it. Feels less Acura-like though. What you mentioned about the clutch, seems very much to me like what's going on here. Of course I am not that knowledgeable about the tranny of course. Sometimes it "sounded" like it shifts gears but it hadn't. Almost as if the same gear has 2 ratios. Sometimes it shifts and the revs are higher than they should be. Then you give it throttle and the revs dip down slowly and back up. I think that is the clutch slipping or something. It had problems with 4th gear. Now after the last 1x3 it's moved on to have problems with 5th gear instead. It just doesn't want to settle in and relax.
And I spoke too soon, today there was a minor slip again. I wasn't sure which gear I was in though. Blah, I hate this.
03-28-2014, 12:01 PM
#11
Burning Brakes
I'm having a feeling that if my tranny holds up that the fluid changes will probably have to be at least as often as my oil changes too. Which sucks. But I'd trade that for having to rebuild the tranny if I had a choice. A rebuilt tranny is not bullet proof either. Plenty of people have that one breakdown too. I dunno. Just didn't expect this from a Honda product.
So I guess your shifts are the same as mine. It's liveable, I don't mind it. Feels less Acura-like though. What you mentioned about the clutch, seems very much to me like what's going on here. Of course I am not that knowledgeable about the tranny of course. Sometimes it "sounded" like it shifts gears but it hadn't. Almost as if the same gear has 2 ratios. Sometimes it shifts and the revs are higher than they should be. Then you give it throttle and the revs dip down slowly and back up. I think that is the clutch slipping or something. It had problems with 4th gear. Now after the last 1x3 it's moved on to have problems with 5th gear instead. It just doesn't want to settle in and relax.
And I spoke too soon, today there was a minor slip again. I wasn't sure which gear I was in though. Blah, I hate this.
So I guess your shifts are the same as mine. It's liveable, I don't mind it. Feels less Acura-like though. What you mentioned about the clutch, seems very much to me like what's going on here. Of course I am not that knowledgeable about the tranny of course. Sometimes it "sounded" like it shifts gears but it hadn't. Almost as if the same gear has 2 ratios. Sometimes it shifts and the revs are higher than they should be. Then you give it throttle and the revs dip down slowly and back up. I think that is the clutch slipping or something. It had problems with 4th gear. Now after the last 1x3 it's moved on to have problems with 5th gear instead. It just doesn't want to settle in and relax.
And I spoke too soon, today there was a minor slip again. I wasn't sure which gear I was in though. Blah, I hate this.
I am thinking that it just needs a fluid change, as P to D engages no problem, on a cold start it shifts perfect but once its up to normal temps it get confused and doesnt engage into gear going from 20-45 mph. -____-
But a few posters did say that Racing ATF does not do well in stop and go city driving. Which is maybe why all my city driving feels horrible.
Ive changed the Gear Switches twice in 55k miles of ownership so hmmm... I dont know what to do now. I plan to sell the car towards the end of summer and go for an 07.
03-28-2014, 04:06 PM
#12
OK so I guess it sounds like your tranny is at the stage mine was when i still had the Z1 in it. Driving OK, just a bit of quirkiness. I think that is pretty much expected with the majority of TLs out there.
I think the majority of people who have 100K+ miles and haven't done anything to the tranny, who think their tranny is normal just can't tell the difference and don't notice the quirks. Once they replace the switches they'll be able to compare.
As of now it sounds like you're fine and the car should hold up by the end of the summer without a problem.
I think the majority of people who have 100K+ miles and haven't done anything to the tranny, who think their tranny is normal just can't tell the difference and don't notice the quirks. Once they replace the switches they'll be able to compare.
As of now it sounds like you're fine and the car should hold up by the end of the summer without a problem.
03-28-2014, 04:11 PM
#13
I was sport shifting the car on a spirited drive today on a tight back road keeping it in 2nd and 3rd. Been awhile since I did that. I almost forgot....MAN this car is awesome. The car was PERFECT. Not many 7 yr old cars could dance like that. If only it didn't have this issue, Sigh. Looks like I'll have to get my checkbook out and get on with this, I know, I'm just bitching at this point, lol.
03-28-2014, 04:18 PM
#14
Racer
Well if none of the cheap fixes work and you know you'll have to get a rebuild, just drive it until it goes out. Maybe you'll get another 2 years out of it, who knows.
03-28-2014, 04:49 PM
#15
Team Owner
It sounds like no maintenence was done in the first 100,000 miles, is this correct?
The fluid and switches won't reverse wear. If the trans is already worn out, the fluid can make shifts feel worse but in reality you're probably wearing the clutches less.
That mixture of 2xRacing and 1xLW Racing was slightly thicker than D4. The major change you made was using no friction modifiers which increase clutch holding power and that is what's stopping your slipping slipping temporarily. It will start slipping again, Type F is just a bandaid at this point.
If it's acting up only when cold, you might try all lightweight racing.
The fluid and switches won't reverse wear. If the trans is already worn out, the fluid can make shifts feel worse but in reality you're probably wearing the clutches less.
That mixture of 2xRacing and 1xLW Racing was slightly thicker than D4. The major change you made was using no friction modifiers which increase clutch holding power and that is what's stopping your slipping slipping temporarily. It will start slipping again, Type F is just a bandaid at this point.
If it's acting up only when cold, you might try all lightweight racing.
03-30-2014, 09:09 AM
#16
Yeah it had nothing done till 93k miles. But at the same time the car felt totally perfect. Those were the days when the talk about all the switches/fluid was really coming to light, so I didn't know any better till then. I just thought this is not the 2GTL so we're safe, just follow the manual.
It seems like it really went downhill really fast, but perhaps damage had been going on for some time and it wasn't an overnight thing. It's hard to believe with my easy driving style. It's true that most of my highway driving became more city driving from 2011-2013, this is when the screwy behavior came about so that's a factor. But the car ran less mileage during this time too, only about 20k miles.
Yea I realize this may be a band-aid. It just doesn't seem bad enough to think I need a total rebuild. At the same time, in my head, it's like a ticking time-bomb ready to implode at any time. I don't even turn the stereo up anymore so that I can listen to the shifts, lol. Yeah I know, I sound like I'm in denial.
I'd run it till it goes out but I don't want to be stranded somewhere at the wrong time and place (night, rain, boondocks) and it'll cost less to drive it there than tow it.
It seems like it really went downhill really fast, but perhaps damage had been going on for some time and it wasn't an overnight thing. It's hard to believe with my easy driving style. It's true that most of my highway driving became more city driving from 2011-2013, this is when the screwy behavior came about so that's a factor. But the car ran less mileage during this time too, only about 20k miles.
Yea I realize this may be a band-aid. It just doesn't seem bad enough to think I need a total rebuild. At the same time, in my head, it's like a ticking time-bomb ready to implode at any time. I don't even turn the stereo up anymore so that I can listen to the shifts, lol. Yeah I know, I sound like I'm in denial.
I'd run it till it goes out but I don't want to be stranded somewhere at the wrong time and place (night, rain, boondocks) and it'll cost less to drive it there than tow it.
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rockyfeller (03-30-2014)
03-30-2014, 08:35 PM
#20
I am really sorry to hear about your bad experience. You may have saved the same problem from happening to many others by sharing your experience.
When you either get a new tranny or new car, closely follow all the maintenance per the manufacture. 3x3 at 60k and then every 30k 3x3 likely would have made all the difference in the world.
Best of luck!
When you either get a new tranny or new car, closely follow all the maintenance per the manufacture. 3x3 at 60k and then every 30k 3x3 likely would have made all the difference in the world.
Best of luck!
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rockyfeller (03-30-2014)
03-30-2014, 09:06 PM
#21
Thanks for your wishes. That is the intention here. I realize my account was a bit winded but my intention was to be able to plant some hits on the search engine so others can research and see if they relate. When people have a problem they want as much information as they can get. Most people don't like to read too much, I can understand. But some people are analytical and into the details, obviously like me, lol. I do it for them.
Ya I knew by 80k I was late. I thought OK, well I think I can afford to wait a little bit to do everything in one shot because I was planning to do the 105k service early. So I did it at 93k.
My mistake was: Underestimating my own ability. Not realizing how easy it is to do the tranny fluid 3x3. I paid the dealer $75 labor for nothing the first time, and all they did was a 1x3 when I asked for 3x3, I thought that's what I paid for. (which would have been worth it) I mean it's a bitch to setup at home, yes, but nothing complex. I do all my own oil changes and it's no different. I have done 100s of other things on my car that are more complicated, including installing coil-overs. So ya, I shoulda coulda done this at 60k by all means.
The other mistake was overestimating the so-called Honda "reliability". Tranny is just something in my mind I didn't really want to fiddle with when the car was 50k-60k. I thought the car was running like a champ. I took care of the car and didn't beat on it. That's just one part of the equation though. I read about all the horror stories with the old Accords, Odysseys and 2GTL. I should have known better that Honda's weak point has always been automatic transmissions. As with most "bad luck' just didn't think it would happen to me.
Ya I knew by 80k I was late. I thought OK, well I think I can afford to wait a little bit to do everything in one shot because I was planning to do the 105k service early. So I did it at 93k.
My mistake was: Underestimating my own ability. Not realizing how easy it is to do the tranny fluid 3x3. I paid the dealer $75 labor for nothing the first time, and all they did was a 1x3 when I asked for 3x3, I thought that's what I paid for. (which would have been worth it) I mean it's a bitch to setup at home, yes, but nothing complex. I do all my own oil changes and it's no different. I have done 100s of other things on my car that are more complicated, including installing coil-overs. So ya, I shoulda coulda done this at 60k by all means.
The other mistake was overestimating the so-called Honda "reliability". Tranny is just something in my mind I didn't really want to fiddle with when the car was 50k-60k. I thought the car was running like a champ. I took care of the car and didn't beat on it. That's just one part of the equation though. I read about all the horror stories with the old Accords, Odysseys and 2GTL. I should have known better that Honda's weak point has always been automatic transmissions. As with most "bad luck' just didn't think it would happen to me.
Last edited by rockyfeller; 03-30-2014 at 09:10 PM.
04-01-2014, 12:24 PM
#22
:what:
Friction modifiers don't thicken oils. Viscosity modifiers do. This stuff is super thin. I've used it on many vehicles with great success. My last few drain and fills, I have been using the Castrol Trans fluid for imports and the proper amount of lube guard with great results on both of my 04 TL's.
04-02-2014, 02:37 PM
#23
Oh OK, good to hear. The only stupid thing is when I went to both Autozone and Advance Auto a couple days ago neither stock or even list it. They never even heard of it, I was suprised. They were both trying to convince me to buy Lucas saying everyone buys that and swears by it and everything else is snake oil. I said no thanks, and they kept trying to sell me on it, lol.
Can't find it listed on PepBoys either. I was suprised since it is very famous on Amazon and bobtheoilguy forum. Napa and Carquest is listed on the Lubegard retailers page but most of them have closed down around here.
I finally tracked a supply in some weird obscure auto parts store so we'll see how this goes.
Can't find it listed on PepBoys either. I was suprised since it is very famous on Amazon and bobtheoilguy forum. Napa and Carquest is listed on the Lubegard retailers page but most of them have closed down around here.
I finally tracked a supply in some weird obscure auto parts store so we'll see how this goes.
04-03-2014, 02:17 PM
#25
Team Owner
I've had great luck with the red bottle and black bottles in other cars with regular (dino) atf. Most of the Lucas products are junk. Their engine restore is a big blob of viscosity index improvers with way too much seal softener. I go out of my way to avoid VIIs in oil and they sell it in a bottle.
04-03-2014, 09:20 PM
#26
Yea we don't really have O'reilly's here either, it's like Autozone and Advance Auto and PepBoys has taken over everything around here.
I have heard for many years that many Lucas products are useless. I was skeptical about Lubegard, mostly because I shy away from most additives. I've tried a few things here and there rarely, thankfully with low expectations. But it seem to have nearly unanimous praise on the internet, several people swearing by it.
So I did put it in. This is the very first time I've used an additive and it actually DID something that was really palpable. My initial opinion is that this is nothing short of a miracle. The difference was immediate and would you believe after all the things I've been trying; this bottle did the trick. The car is shifting MUCH better. Yes, it does seem to have some sloppiness if I do a hard downshift or maybe that's how it feels with this F fluid mix. But the upshifts are smooth. That dip with the partial clutch slip in 5th I had is eliminated. It holds 5th just like before. R to D delay is decreased. Feels like 2012 again. Amazing
Of course I'm not holding my breath, I need to drive it more to see how long this will last. It may regress. If this can at least delay a tranny swap a few months, I'm happy because I'm not driving the car as much as before. Life is hectic at the moment, I'd prefer not to deal with it now. But Lubegard is something I should have done a LONG time ago. I'm surprised it is not talked about much on the tranny threads. So if you are reading this and you're on your last leg, nothing to lose, TRY IT!!
As some have said, it looks like it will be part of my tranny fluid change repertoire as well. Much thanks to Wacker!! Will update if anything changes.
I have heard for many years that many Lucas products are useless. I was skeptical about Lubegard, mostly because I shy away from most additives. I've tried a few things here and there rarely, thankfully with low expectations. But it seem to have nearly unanimous praise on the internet, several people swearing by it.
So I did put it in. This is the very first time I've used an additive and it actually DID something that was really palpable. My initial opinion is that this is nothing short of a miracle. The difference was immediate and would you believe after all the things I've been trying; this bottle did the trick. The car is shifting MUCH better. Yes, it does seem to have some sloppiness if I do a hard downshift or maybe that's how it feels with this F fluid mix. But the upshifts are smooth. That dip with the partial clutch slip in 5th I had is eliminated. It holds 5th just like before. R to D delay is decreased. Feels like 2012 again. Amazing
Of course I'm not holding my breath, I need to drive it more to see how long this will last. It may regress. If this can at least delay a tranny swap a few months, I'm happy because I'm not driving the car as much as before. Life is hectic at the moment, I'd prefer not to deal with it now. But Lubegard is something I should have done a LONG time ago. I'm surprised it is not talked about much on the tranny threads. So if you are reading this and you're on your last leg, nothing to lose, TRY IT!!
As some have said, it looks like it will be part of my tranny fluid change repertoire as well. Much thanks to Wacker!! Will update if anything changes.
Last edited by rockyfeller; 04-03-2014 at 09:23 PM.
05-06-2014, 05:47 PM
#28
So far the car has been running and my band-aids have been holding. But I am still getting tranny flaring, partial slipping etc. on 4th/5th gear. Thank God no total slips though. So while thing are not getting worse, as we all know they aren’t going to magically fix themselves and inevitably this tranny is on it’s way out.
As mentioned on another thread it may be possible to get the tranny replaced as a one-time exception out of warranty and pay $1k deductible. I was trying that route without success. Unless you have a very solid relationship with a dealership with FULL Acura service records/maintenance done on the car they won’t want to help you out. I can understand that up to a point.
If I treated my car as a commuter appliance that I leased and I'm going to bounce to different types of cars I'd understand. But if you have an original owner who puts $30k of mods into his car, I'd argue that Acura can't get a better loyal customer. That is the person most likely to purchase the same brand again. I wish they could take that into account than looking at how much I spent in their service department. Sure I understand that it isn't realistic for them to look at it this way. But see here’s the thing I made clear to them. I may be talking to the wind here but the truth is that if this situation turns out sour for me and I really have to put up $5k at the end of this story, you can BET Acura lost a customer for life. I promise.
I know a few people are saying that “tranny problems are rare on the 3GTL etc.” I don't know if you have been on the forums long enough if you can think that. If you have an 04-06 automatic without problems then “lucky you!”, that's all. If there are this many people with problems here on AZine that is just a clue about how many people are out there that have problems as well. I say that because I can bet their cars are not maintained at least as well as most of ours. This many issues means this is a KNOWN problem and Acura knows about it. They are not making a big deal about it just because it isn't big enough, that's all.
Another thing I hear is “Oh but everyone knows you should change your fluid every 30k miles.” OK I agree, but that is in hindsight. But where are you getting this? You may say that is common sense, but this is where I stand: I bought this car new in 2006. The dealer was PROUD to tout the fact: Follow the MID. That is all u have to do. The car tells you when to do everything. No major service till 105k. I bought the car with that assurance. The service dept. will tell you “change the tranny fluid every 30k”. That’s nice. The service dept. will also tell you to bring your car in every month for anything else they feel necessary. The fact is ACURA does not tell you that. Had THEY told me to do it every 30k miles, I would have. Old school owner’s manuals tell you when to change everything. How come ours doesn’t. That’s right. Our manual doesn’t clearly state when to change the tranny fluid except if I live on Mt.McKinley or Dubai. It says to follow the MID. That’s what I did. So before people refute this, read here. This is all that is mentioned.
So while quite a few of you are quick to blame those people with the issues. I don’t agree. My car is over maintained if anything. I am not lazy. I would have done it if it were such an important requirement. I may have changed my tranny fluid late the first time, but according to the MID I was EARLY. So I thought I was safe. I just really thought the 2GTL issues would not come to haunt us. Now I do.
A dealership advised me to go through Acura Client Services and file a claim before bringing it in and that MAY be more helpful. Let's see where that takes me. I am not expecting a free tranny of course. But I am hoping they cut some slack. Let’s see.
As mentioned on another thread it may be possible to get the tranny replaced as a one-time exception out of warranty and pay $1k deductible. I was trying that route without success. Unless you have a very solid relationship with a dealership with FULL Acura service records/maintenance done on the car they won’t want to help you out. I can understand that up to a point.
If I treated my car as a commuter appliance that I leased and I'm going to bounce to different types of cars I'd understand. But if you have an original owner who puts $30k of mods into his car, I'd argue that Acura can't get a better loyal customer. That is the person most likely to purchase the same brand again. I wish they could take that into account than looking at how much I spent in their service department. Sure I understand that it isn't realistic for them to look at it this way. But see here’s the thing I made clear to them. I may be talking to the wind here but the truth is that if this situation turns out sour for me and I really have to put up $5k at the end of this story, you can BET Acura lost a customer for life. I promise.
I know a few people are saying that “tranny problems are rare on the 3GTL etc.” I don't know if you have been on the forums long enough if you can think that. If you have an 04-06 automatic without problems then “lucky you!”, that's all. If there are this many people with problems here on AZine that is just a clue about how many people are out there that have problems as well. I say that because I can bet their cars are not maintained at least as well as most of ours. This many issues means this is a KNOWN problem and Acura knows about it. They are not making a big deal about it just because it isn't big enough, that's all.
Another thing I hear is “Oh but everyone knows you should change your fluid every 30k miles.” OK I agree, but that is in hindsight. But where are you getting this? You may say that is common sense, but this is where I stand: I bought this car new in 2006. The dealer was PROUD to tout the fact: Follow the MID. That is all u have to do. The car tells you when to do everything. No major service till 105k. I bought the car with that assurance. The service dept. will tell you “change the tranny fluid every 30k”. That’s nice. The service dept. will also tell you to bring your car in every month for anything else they feel necessary. The fact is ACURA does not tell you that. Had THEY told me to do it every 30k miles, I would have. Old school owner’s manuals tell you when to change everything. How come ours doesn’t. That’s right. Our manual doesn’t clearly state when to change the tranny fluid except if I live on Mt.McKinley or Dubai. It says to follow the MID. That’s what I did. So before people refute this, read here. This is all that is mentioned.
So while quite a few of you are quick to blame those people with the issues. I don’t agree. My car is over maintained if anything. I am not lazy. I would have done it if it were such an important requirement. I may have changed my tranny fluid late the first time, but according to the MID I was EARLY. So I thought I was safe. I just really thought the 2GTL issues would not come to haunt us. Now I do.
A dealership advised me to go through Acura Client Services and file a claim before bringing it in and that MAY be more helpful. Let's see where that takes me. I am not expecting a free tranny of course. But I am hoping they cut some slack. Let’s see.
05-07-2014, 10:33 AM
#30
I'm realizing now that the term "tranny flare" is exactly what I am experiencing right now. I didn't know how else to say it before.
The Lubegard eliminated 3rd gear from slipping and eliminated my extra LONG delay from R to D. That has not changed.
But tranny flare exists in both 4th and 5th gear. It can be described as a "mushy" upshift to 5th. Initially right after the shift the revs are about 500rpms higher than they should be before settling down 5-10sec later. This is the most consistent mistake it makes. It happens EVERY time. Everything else occurs sporadically. Sometimes when going uphill with moderate acceleration it will sound like it downshifted but it hasn't. It will still be in 5th as it flares. Sometimes when downshifting from 5th back down to 4th going uphill it also flares. A mushy downshift where the revs again are higher than they should be before settling back down. I know it may be a bit difficult to understand if you haven't seen a tranny flare, but this is the best way I can describe it. I will try to post a video sometime.
Gears 1-3 are normal except for a firm 1-2 shift that is because I am running a racing fluid mix.
I've had memories of my old BMW 540i doing the same damn thing before I traded it in. I knew that car was going to implode. haha. But this car has been more reliable in all other ways. It is the first car I've bought brand new. It makes you more invested, so I intend to figure this out.
The Lubegard eliminated 3rd gear from slipping and eliminated my extra LONG delay from R to D. That has not changed.
But tranny flare exists in both 4th and 5th gear. It can be described as a "mushy" upshift to 5th. Initially right after the shift the revs are about 500rpms higher than they should be before settling down 5-10sec later. This is the most consistent mistake it makes. It happens EVERY time. Everything else occurs sporadically. Sometimes when going uphill with moderate acceleration it will sound like it downshifted but it hasn't. It will still be in 5th as it flares. Sometimes when downshifting from 5th back down to 4th going uphill it also flares. A mushy downshift where the revs again are higher than they should be before settling back down. I know it may be a bit difficult to understand if you haven't seen a tranny flare, but this is the best way I can describe it. I will try to post a video sometime.
Gears 1-3 are normal except for a firm 1-2 shift that is because I am running a racing fluid mix.
I've had memories of my old BMW 540i doing the same damn thing before I traded it in. I knew that car was going to implode. haha. But this car has been more reliable in all other ways. It is the first car I've bought brand new. It makes you more invested, so I intend to figure this out.
05-07-2014, 12:26 PM
#31
Racer
I'm realizing now that the term "tranny flare" is exactly what I am experiencing right now. I didn't know how else to say it before.
The Lubegard eliminated 3rd gear from slipping and eliminated my extra LONG delay from R to D. That has not changed.
But tranny flare exists in both 4th and 5th gear. It can be described as a "mushy" upshift to 5th. Initially right after the shift the revs are about 500rpms higher than they should be before settling down 5-10sec later. This is the most consistent mistake it makes. It happens EVERY time. Everything else occurs sporadically. Sometimes when going uphill with moderate acceleration it will sound like it downshifted but it hasn't. It will still be in 5th as it flares. Sometimes when downshifting from 5th back down to 4th going uphill it also flares. A mushy downshift where the revs again are higher than they should be before settling back down. I know it may be a bit difficult to understand if you haven't seen a tranny flare, but this is the best way I can describe it. I will try to post a video sometime.
Gears 1-3 are normal except for a firm 1-2 shift that is because I am running a racing fluid mix.
I've had memories of my old BMW 540i doing the same damn thing before I traded it in. I knew that car was going to implode. haha. But this car has been more reliable in all other ways. It is the first car I've bought brand new. It makes you more invested, so I intend to figure this out.
The Lubegard eliminated 3rd gear from slipping and eliminated my extra LONG delay from R to D. That has not changed.
But tranny flare exists in both 4th and 5th gear. It can be described as a "mushy" upshift to 5th. Initially right after the shift the revs are about 500rpms higher than they should be before settling down 5-10sec later. This is the most consistent mistake it makes. It happens EVERY time. Everything else occurs sporadically. Sometimes when going uphill with moderate acceleration it will sound like it downshifted but it hasn't. It will still be in 5th as it flares. Sometimes when downshifting from 5th back down to 4th going uphill it also flares. A mushy downshift where the revs again are higher than they should be before settling back down. I know it may be a bit difficult to understand if you haven't seen a tranny flare, but this is the best way I can describe it. I will try to post a video sometime.
Gears 1-3 are normal except for a firm 1-2 shift that is because I am running a racing fluid mix.
I've had memories of my old BMW 540i doing the same damn thing before I traded it in. I knew that car was going to implode. haha. But this car has been more reliable in all other ways. It is the first car I've bought brand new. It makes you more invested, so I intend to figure this out.
05-07-2014, 02:13 PM
#32
If Acura doesn't help me out at a reasonable price, then I'll find a place that will hopefully fix the real problem. Acura just swaps trannys, that's it, they don't bother messing with it.
It's not like my tranny is totally toast or something though. If the parts that need to be fixed can be taken care of I'd be happy. The only problem is just getting someone to get to the tranny and open it is $1500 in itself before repairs even come into the picture. As I've heard 1000s of times, the last place I'll go is Aamco.
I know a guy who will swap a refurbed tranny for $500. Might go that route too. Only problem is I'll have a 1yr tranny warranty but no warranty on labor.
It's not like my tranny is totally toast or something though. If the parts that need to be fixed can be taken care of I'd be happy. The only problem is just getting someone to get to the tranny and open it is $1500 in itself before repairs even come into the picture. As I've heard 1000s of times, the last place I'll go is Aamco.
I know a guy who will swap a refurbed tranny for $500. Might go that route too. Only problem is I'll have a 1yr tranny warranty but no warranty on labor.
09-02-2014, 10:31 PM
#33
I just wanted to do a quick update:
5 months later and everything is exactly as last reported. Car is running, tranny still intact. It is no better or worse than it was in April. I never did take it back to Acura, a claim was initiated but I didn't have the car looked at. It seems to be fine, though I am driving the car delicately. I use sportshift on hills to manage shifting myself, not that I have to, but it just makes me feel better.
I don't know if I mentioned it before but before I put LubeGard in I also did a tranny filter change. I don't know if that helped any, just thought; what the hell, I did everything else, might as well. I didn't notice any kind of difference of course, not that I was expecting any.
So far my hunch is so far right. If I had some kind of major issues the car should have left me stranded a long time ago. I really feel this had a lot to do with fluids. I almost feel like not doing my next 1x3 and losing what I got, lol. Or will it improve? I dunno.
5 months later and everything is exactly as last reported. Car is running, tranny still intact. It is no better or worse than it was in April. I never did take it back to Acura, a claim was initiated but I didn't have the car looked at. It seems to be fine, though I am driving the car delicately. I use sportshift on hills to manage shifting myself, not that I have to, but it just makes me feel better.
I don't know if I mentioned it before but before I put LubeGard in I also did a tranny filter change. I don't know if that helped any, just thought; what the hell, I did everything else, might as well. I didn't notice any kind of difference of course, not that I was expecting any.
So far my hunch is so far right. If I had some kind of major issues the car should have left me stranded a long time ago. I really feel this had a lot to do with fluids. I almost feel like not doing my next 1x3 and losing what I got, lol. Or will it improve? I dunno.
Last edited by rockyfeller; 09-02-2014 at 10:39 PM.
09-04-2014, 11:10 PM
#34
What a bunch of ass wipes. This is why I park far away from anything since I bought my TL, especially away from other cars because those knuckle heads don't care if they smack their door on your car when opening them.
The following users liked this post:
rockyfeller (09-05-2014)
09-05-2014, 10:49 AM
#35
My car is in the 2nd parking space closest to the store here. My method is I tend to try and find a spot closest to the store. My mentality is it keeps the car visible and less likely to be broken into or keyed. If someone bumps the car it's more likely that they would feel like they would want to report it because maybe someone was watching or there may be a camera around.
I totally get how some people think it is better to park across the far end of the lot. The only thing is sometimes knuckleheads STILL park next to you anyways! I can't stand that! Don't they get why you parked there? lol. The other thing is because it is isolated, it may make some people think that whatever goes on far away likely won't be seen.
I think the worst place to park is in the middle of the parking lot in a sea of cars where nobody can see your car and anything goes.
But let's be honest here, nowhere in the parking lot is truly safe. There are too many oblivious, selfish, greedy, mean-spirited and outright criminal people out there. I have to put a lot of thought about what I have to do, where I have to go, what time of day it is and whether it is a risk to parking my car. I go to places and times when it is least risk whenever possible. (That pic was from early afternoon, less shoppers. See how sparse the parking lot is? Yet these idiots want to throw all the carts in this one area, goons!) In certain circumstances I will absolutely refuse to park, you can ask my friends, lol, they think I'm crazy. But besides being keyed once and a few door dings, I've fared well with this mentality. The only cure to this is to buy a beater car for the errands/winters etc. which I always say I'm gonna do but never get around to.
I totally get how some people think it is better to park across the far end of the lot. The only thing is sometimes knuckleheads STILL park next to you anyways! I can't stand that! Don't they get why you parked there? lol. The other thing is because it is isolated, it may make some people think that whatever goes on far away likely won't be seen.
I think the worst place to park is in the middle of the parking lot in a sea of cars where nobody can see your car and anything goes.
But let's be honest here, nowhere in the parking lot is truly safe. There are too many oblivious, selfish, greedy, mean-spirited and outright criminal people out there. I have to put a lot of thought about what I have to do, where I have to go, what time of day it is and whether it is a risk to parking my car. I go to places and times when it is least risk whenever possible. (That pic was from early afternoon, less shoppers. See how sparse the parking lot is? Yet these idiots want to throw all the carts in this one area, goons!) In certain circumstances I will absolutely refuse to park, you can ask my friends, lol, they think I'm crazy. But besides being keyed once and a few door dings, I've fared well with this mentality. The only cure to this is to buy a beater car for the errands/winters etc. which I always say I'm gonna do but never get around to.
Last edited by rockyfeller; 09-05-2014 at 10:52 AM.
09-07-2014, 01:37 AM
#36
OP, you got 2 choices fix it or swap it neither is cheap the 6MT will last longer.. you said you changed stuff like fluid and the problem remains that means it's a sensor problem or the trans is toast. the trans may or may not throw a code [check engine light or blinking d5]
you can use a 07 accord trans quite easily, you will need to swap the oil to water cooler, PRNDL switch, and sub harness from the old to the new trans...
Did you say you were the king of hyper mileing? If so, I say burn it with fire... that is a dangerous activity to engage in and puts you and others at risk.
you can use a 07 accord trans quite easily, you will need to swap the oil to water cooler, PRNDL switch, and sub harness from the old to the new trans...
Did you say you were the king of hyper mileing? If so, I say burn it with fire... that is a dangerous activity to engage in and puts you and others at risk.
Last edited by YeuEmMaiMai; 09-07-2014 at 01:40 AM.
09-07-2014, 08:46 AM
#37
Racer
OP, you got 2 choices fix it or swap it neither is cheap the 6MT will last longer.. you said you changed stuff like fluid and the problem remains that means it's a sensor problem or the trans is toast. the trans may or may not throw a code [check engine light or blinking d5]
you can use a 07 accord trans quite easily, you will need to swap the oil to water cooler, PRNDL switch, and sub harness from the old to the new trans...
Did you say you were the king of hyper mileing? If so, I say burn it with fire... that is a dangerous activity to engage in and puts you and others at risk.
you can use a 07 accord trans quite easily, you will need to swap the oil to water cooler, PRNDL switch, and sub harness from the old to the new trans...
Did you say you were the king of hyper mileing? If so, I say burn it with fire... that is a dangerous activity to engage in and puts you and others at risk.
09-07-2014, 12:12 PM
#38
I really would LOVE to get it fixed without a swap. But who is gonna do it for a reasonable price (<$2k) and really KNOW what they are doing and get it fixed honestly? With no BS and no breakdowns down the road and a warranty longer than 90 days (labor). In another words the car hasn't broke down yet. I'd really hate to get hasty and go in for a preventative repair and then end up with more headaches than I had and regret it. Yea, and what sensor are you referring to?
6MT would be my dream, would really love that. But my car is 8yrs old and it makes no sense to me at all. Way too much work involved. Rather get a new car with a manual and all the technological advancements of 2015. So a swap like that is out of the question for me. I'll be selling within the next year or 2.
I've heard about the Accord swap. Been done a handful of times, I dunno I am skeptical about that as well. It may work mechanically but how does it fare with the electronic interface of the TL? Yeah I know they are both basically the same car, but Honda is notorious for making very minor changes even within the same model line across model years. Many things can be "compatible" mechanically but end up not being exactly engineered for one another, if I'm making any sense. I see way too much that can be incompatible with a swap like that, even though a few have claimed success with it. IMO a straight swap apples for apples is something that has been done 1000s of times more often and has a better track record. If an Accord swap only saves me $1k or something it makes no sense to me at all.
I am on the third option though; wait and see.....it's been 5 months now, the car is running decent. Things haven't gotten worse. How do you explain that? I'm really not exaggerating about that LubeGard stuff, that's the only thing that can explain how well I've been doing. Best advice I've gotten so far.
Lastly please explain why you think hyper-milling is dangerous? Never heard that one before.
6MT would be my dream, would really love that. But my car is 8yrs old and it makes no sense to me at all. Way too much work involved. Rather get a new car with a manual and all the technological advancements of 2015. So a swap like that is out of the question for me. I'll be selling within the next year or 2.
I've heard about the Accord swap. Been done a handful of times, I dunno I am skeptical about that as well. It may work mechanically but how does it fare with the electronic interface of the TL? Yeah I know they are both basically the same car, but Honda is notorious for making very minor changes even within the same model line across model years. Many things can be "compatible" mechanically but end up not being exactly engineered for one another, if I'm making any sense. I see way too much that can be incompatible with a swap like that, even though a few have claimed success with it. IMO a straight swap apples for apples is something that has been done 1000s of times more often and has a better track record. If an Accord swap only saves me $1k or something it makes no sense to me at all.
I am on the third option though; wait and see.....it's been 5 months now, the car is running decent. Things haven't gotten worse. How do you explain that? I'm really not exaggerating about that LubeGard stuff, that's the only thing that can explain how well I've been doing. Best advice I've gotten so far.
Lastly please explain why you think hyper-milling is dangerous? Never heard that one before.
09-08-2014, 07:13 AM
#39
09-08-2014, 07:22 AM
#40
because people do stupid crap like
1. use the brakes as little as possible, thus creating problems for people behind them.
2. take turns at higher speeds to avoid losing momentum, even on city streets
3. turn off cars at stop lights, creating delays while they restart their car
4. TAILGATING
5. Typically overinflate tires for less rolling resistance. less rolling resistance = less traction due to less contact patch area in this scenario
Need I go on?