spamcop01

It has 156K miles on it and the transmission was rebuilt and motor mounts replaced at AAMCO about 10K miles ago. Body is in great shape and after I buff out some marks, it's going to look sharp. However, I've found a clicking sound I didn't notice when I test drove it. I first noticed it when I was turning at very slow speeds (e.g., backing out of the driveway), however I can most easily reproduce it by slowly turning the wheel left and right while the car is parked/idling. As I slowly turn the wheel, I'll hear a "click" then nothing as I continue, and then 2-3 more clicks as I reach the limit of the turn. It happens when turning both left and right. No power steering pump groans. It's almost like it's straining under the weight of the engine and I suspect that if I had the front-end lifted I wouldn't hear it at all. It happens regardless of whether I'm in Park, Drive, or Reverse and I don't hear it at all if I'm driving at normal speeds. I'll try to get a video uploaded to YouTube tomorrow.

Most of the threads I've read suggested clicking sounds were likely a bad CV joint, but I don't think that's the problem since it's happening in both directions and the boots look good. Any suggestions on where to start are greatly appreciated!

b15

Literally have the exact same issue with mine that I'm trying to troubleshoot as well. I'm leaning towards a bad ball joint. I'm thinking it's my left upper since its the only one with grease caked around it.

spamcop01

I just uploaded this video to YouTube. This is with the car idling in Park and slowly turning the wheel all the way to the left, then all the way to the right, then back to center again:

Octanee

I would recommend buying a stethoscope. you can get them for usually ~$20. next place it ontop of the strut tower, and listen, place the tip all over if you can, I wonder if its a strut bearing. but if you had that stethoscope it may help you narrow down the issue. I had a car with a whine start, can't tell by ear if it was the alternator or power steering pump, so using my stethoscope i was able to easily point out that the noise was the alternator. so having the right tool for the job... Can help and hopefully would in this scenario.

spamcop01

This thread is suggesting it might be a bad/failing rack:

https://acurazine.com/forums/3g-tl-p...urning-776009/

Also, I started going through the service records I got from the seller. Back in May they replaced the front compliance bushings with the note "Upon oil change, found front compliance bushings gone metal on metal. Replaced both." Still going through records to see if any rack or other suspension work was done.

Glorygang600

Im having the same issue, hasnt been mentioned in this post but its def not lower arm control, sway link bars, compliance bushing, or struts

spamcop01

Still hoping someone can identify the problem. I'll try to video the same test tomorrow from underneath. If it is a bad rack that needs to be replaced, it appears to be pretty labor intensive and probably beyond my capabilities:


The best part prices I could find so far are from Rock Auto (searched for 2006 TL):

2006 ACURA TL 3.2L V6 Rack and Pinion Complete Unit | RockAuto

Octanee

I would lift the front end and turn the wheels, each side by hand, maybe you can feel something, It could be the rack but I have yet to see a rack do that, you'd almost be more likely to loose power assist than a binding, because the power assist will force its way through anything thatll bind. but if you have the front end up and turn the wheels by hand on the wheel with the engine off, maybe that will help you narrow down something.

otherwise, yeah I think to do the power steering rack would suck, I had my tranny out since it let go on me and I dropped the rack with the sub frame, a shop *may* be able to drop the rear of the sub frame and possibly get it to wiggle out but thats a tight fit regardless. and one semi big issue is to mark the sub frame before you loosen it off so you can get it back to what it was at.

spamcop01

Lifted the front-end with the engine off and the key in the "on" position. I turned the steering wheel in the same manner as the video with no sounds at all. It's definitely got something to do with the resistance of the weight causing something to strain. There also looked to be some damp spots under there so I wonder if the rack is leaking but not so bad that it's hitting the ground. I will investigate that later and post back.

Glorygang600

I doubt its the rack an pinion honestly also had mine changed about a year ago, with my experience and already purchased parts i think it may be the upper arm control

spamcop01

Thx, Glorygang. How can I further inspect to confirm? I just uploaded another video as a view from underneath the car moving from driver-side wheel, along the rack, to the passenger side. I also found some dampness on the inside of the plastic cover that's under the transmission (the one you remove to get to the transmission fluid bolt). Not sure where the leak is but it's very slow. Any thoughts on identifying source on that would be great, too.

spamcop01

Posted a couple more videos from under the car while reproducing the sound:

2006 Acura TL (3G) Clicking Sound While Turning Steering Wheel in Park (Driver Side)

2006 Acura TL (3G) Clicking Sound While Turning Steering Wheel in Park (Passenger Side)

spamcop01

Forgot to mention that it really doesn't seem like the sound is coming from the suspension areas in the video. More like the middle or back of the engine block. It almost sounds like the weight isn't properly supported so that something is straining at the outer edges of the turn. Any chance it could be mounts of some kind? The transmission was rebuilt and the receipts say all the mounts were replaced at that time...

Glorygang600

Well whenever you find out the solution to this issue please don't hesitate to share i think it'd be a great idea to ask youtubers scotty kilmer or ericthecarguy(who has a 4 part video on how to change our engine & transmission from scratch

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

interesting. for the OP, I would physically check all mounts.
this situation is tough, because I havent come across a "binding" noise like that on my car, So i dont have personal experience.

my immediate thoughts are some kind of bearing or bushing

spamcop01

So I took the TL into Firestone today. First they inspected it just parked in the bay. One guy would turn the wheel while two others were first checking the suspension parts, and next looking down with flashlights from the back of the engine block. Nothing obvious. Next they put it up on the alignment rack so they could inspect it from underneath while one guy reproduced the sound turning the steering wheel. After 15 minutes of checking everything, they could not locate the sound. He brought me over and showed me that mechanically everything looked really good. He then tapped the subframe with the end of his metal flashlight and said, "that's the sound, but I can't see what's causing the creak." So he thinks it has something to do with the subframe. This might also explain why I've seen so many posts where people have swapped various suspension parts with no resolution.

As I mentioned earlier in the thread, the transmission was rebuilt by AAMCO about 10K miles ago and I suspect this required them to do some work with the subframe, right? Is it possible that there are some bushings or mounts that damper any noise from the subframe? Wonder what the stealership will charge me to do an inspection and figure out what's going on...

thoiboi

Mounts..?

spamcop01

To be honest, I didn't ask the mechanics about the state of the mounts. However, I did shoot the attached photos this evening. There are pics of the subframe bushings/mounts and some other parts of the suspension. Also a picture of the front engine mount, but not sure if you can tell much from it. Couldn't get a good view of the rear engine mount. Nothing looked off to my untrained eye.

I'm taking the car to AAMCO tomorrow to have them review it since they did the transmission rebuild and replaced all the engine mounts. Need to find it, but found another thread that said this creaking sound was the rack binding internally. I'll post that when I locate it again...

spamcop01

This is the thread I mentioned above:

https://acurazine.com/forums/3g-tl-p...eering-760572/

And it turned out to be a bad rack. I'll have to try it again, but can't say that I really feel anything when I turn the wheel back and forth...

spamcop01

Just got a call from AAMCO and...drumroll please...bad rack. Ugh. He said he put the stethoscope up to it and the sound was coming from inside. He said the only other possibility was outer tie-rod ends, but since the sound was centrally located and symmetrical, he was almost positive it was the rack. He said the subframe was solid and he couldn't find anything else moving. The good news is this isn't my daily driver so I can take my time trying to tackle it. The bad news: this is definitely going to push the limits of my mechanical expertise. On the bright side: I'm going to be able to buy some new tools!!

peter6

Start with stethoscope to confirm that it is coming from the rack.
If it is, buy that guy a beer, and download service manual.

Good luck, keep us posted.

spamcop01

Funny you should mention it: I came to the shop with a cold six-pack in hand since I'd promised it if he could locate the problem. In return, he took me under the car, gave me a stethoscope and demonstrated that the sound was indeed coming from the rack. So and .

Right now I'm trying to figure out how to safely get the car lifted higher on my jack stands. I've seen a video where the mechanic first uses the floor jack with the front lift point to get it as high as the jack will allow and sets it on the stands. Next, he moved the floor jack further under the car and placed it below the control arm to raise it some more and then heightened the jack stands. It's ridiculous how much you can learn on YouTube, but now I'm watching it more than my kids are!!

spamcop01

I've started the teardown and reached a point where the manual says to remove the PS heat baffle plate. While it has a picture in the manual (step 22 in the attached pdf) and I've looked it up online (#13 in the illustration), I still don't have a good sense for where this is located. Can anyone give me some more clues? Many thanks!!

Octanee

Am I not seeing it right or are you missing 2 bolts on those upper sub frame to frame mounts or pics 1 and 2 on your other previous post with the series of pictures , they have the 2 bolts that mount to the sub frame then the single mount hole to the chassis. Or also right near /above the lower control arm. Also, yes the sub frame gets removed for the transmission, check and or tighten the sub frame bolts.

The heat baffle plate I believe is right blow the exhaust and above the rack, it shields the rack from exhaust heat, if it's not there then somebody took it off.

spamcop01

Octanee, thanks for reviewing things. The front suspension subframe mounts have the bolts in them, although I removed them today as part of the teardown. I believe I located the heat baffle plate over on the passenger side of the rack. Unfortunately, one of the bolts is really difficult to reach because there are bolts holding the exhaust preventing me from getting any of my ratchets connected to a socket to fit. Will need to get some swivel sockets or universal joints to get in there and will update on my progress.

b15

Great thread. Definitely looking forward to updates, I hope this solves the issue.

spamcop01

It's always the things you think will be relatively easy that end up frustrating you the most...So I'm at the point where I'm going to remove the PS feed and return lines that connect to the rack. Everything I've watched and read suggests that it's easier to pull the return line off the fitting rather than trying to remove the fitting itself at this point. But there's this clamp that I've never encountered before and it's giving me fits. I just want to slide it down the return line but can't figure out how to release it. The first two attached photos show the clamp with the screw in but mostly unwound (was hoping I wouldn't have to take it off completely). The last one is with the screw removed so all that remains is the clamp going around the hose. But I can't friggin' move it and it's driving me nucking futs! Any and all suggestions welcome.

Not sure if it will help any, but this is the part number for the clip:

Clip, Oil Hose (Nichirin)
https://www.acurapartswarehouse.com/...5-s5a-a02.html

thoiboi

Squeeze them together and move it down.

Or cut it off somehow and replace with a worm clamp

spamcop01

Believe me when I tell you I'm trying. It's a tight squeeze from the top and really hard to get any leverage. I keep looking at the pics and wondering if squeezing it is having the opposite effect. Worst case, I'm cutting it off and will replace it. Thx!!

thoiboi

wait a minute, the screw was suppose to aid you in removing the clamp similar to a worm gear clamp. :whoops:

spamcop01

Unscrewing it does relieve pressure on the clamp, but even at its most "unscrewed" I still couldn't get it to budge. I'm going to try and grab it with some vice grips or a spring clamp. Right now I'm trying to crack the nut on the feed line and not feeling much joy there either...

spamcop01

Vice grips did the trick so I was able to get the clamp free. Cracking the feed line nut is killing me, though. I've tried just about every combination of extensions, tools, and angles to try and break it to no avail. Soaking it with some Liquid Wrench and may go pickup some PB Blaster. Grrrr...

spamcop01

Latest update: PB Blaster is a miracle product! Even after sliding the hose clamp down the return line, I still wasn't able to slide it off the fitting. However, after soaking it and the feed line nut with PB, I was able to remove both from above using standard 17mm & 19mm wrenches. I tried using crowfoot flare nut wrenches on the end of extensions, but couldn't get a combination of angle and leverage. I'm almost to the point where I can try to slide the rack out and expect it will be the most challenging task to date.

I will write up a list of all the tools I've used later, but for the adventurous considering this task, I've so far done everything with just a floor jack, 2x 3Ton jack stands, and hand tools. No car lift or air wrenches. I'm sore as hell from some of the contortions trying to break nuts, but still have all my fingers and toes.

spamcop01

As mentioned earlier, I'm going to start another thread with the lessons learned from this project, but one last update: I successfully replaced the rack, refilled the PS system with new fluid and...no more clicks or creaks. Smooth as butter from side to side. The six-pack it cost for the AAMCO svc tech to identify the problem was well worth the investment.

Identifying suspension sounds isn't easy even when someone is a mechanic for a living (witness my Firestone experiences in previous posts). Doing it via forum posts with a supportive community is that much harder. I appreciate the feedback and support I've received and hope this thread helps the next person facing this issue.

thoiboi

No need to start another thread, Keep it all in here and request a title change and mods can take care of that