Impossible TL Type-S Misfire
08-31-2018, 08:41 AM
#41
Instructor
Missfire in all 6 cylinders
Morning all
so picked up my 2008 type s 6 spd two weeks ago .
And ironically seem to be having the exact same issues as OP
Have a buddy who brought home his scanning tool last night hooked it up and went for a long drive to try and figure this out . all is looking great , but I've got miss fires in all 6 cylinders . It's seems as if the miss fires happen at low throttle , also when the missfires were happening the knock sensor was advance the timing multiple times . It's a complete mystery Absolutely no codes present or stored anywhere . Plugs are new , car runs great other than this very annoying issue . Anyone out there that was solved this that can lend a hand , would be awesome. Cheers
so picked up my 2008 type s 6 spd two weeks ago .
And ironically seem to be having the exact same issues as OP
Have a buddy who brought home his scanning tool last night hooked it up and went for a long drive to try and figure this out . all is looking great , but I've got miss fires in all 6 cylinders . It's seems as if the miss fires happen at low throttle , also when the missfires were happening the knock sensor was advance the timing multiple times . It's a complete mystery Absolutely no codes present or stored anywhere . Plugs are new , car runs great other than this very annoying issue . Anyone out there that was solved this that can lend a hand , would be awesome. Cheers
08-31-2018, 09:46 AM
#42
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Sounds like you have one bad coil. It is a truism with the J-Series engines where a single coil will generate random misfires on all six cylinders. I had a single coil fail on my J30 equipped Accord, the shop told me I needed six coils. I told them to use the old school method of misfire detection (unplug one coil at a time and your your ears to determine whether the engine slowed down or not).
08-31-2018, 10:11 AM
#43
Instructor
Sounds like you have one bad coil. It is a truism with the J-Series engines where a single coil will generate random misfires on all six cylinders. I had a single coil fail on my J30 equipped Accord, the shop told me I needed six coils. I told them to use the old school method of misfire detection (unplug one coil at a time and your your ears to determine whether the engine slowed down or not).
I have done the old school method of unplugging them and do that check , they all seemed to stumble the engine once disconnected meaning they are all fictional correct ?
08-31-2018, 11:55 AM
#44
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thanks for the reply, so here's the thing i have absolutely no codes , and am I not correct in saying a coil pack will work or not work not half work ?
I have done the old school method of unplugging them and do that check , they all seemed to stumble the engine once disconnected meaning they are all fictional correct ?
I have done the old school method of unplugging them and do that check , they all seemed to stumble the engine once disconnected meaning they are all fictional correct ?
08-31-2018, 04:17 PM
#47
Race Director
Morning all
so picked up my 2008 type s 6 spd two weeks ago .
And ironically seem to be having the exact same issues as OP
Have a buddy who brought home his scanning tool last night hooked it up and went for a long drive to try and figure this out . all is looking great , but I've got miss fires in all 6 cylinders . It's seems as if the miss fires happen at low throttle , also when the missfires were happening the knock sensor was advance the timing multiple times . It's a complete mystery Absolutely no codes present or stored anywhere . Plugs are new , car runs great other than this very annoying issue . Anyone out there that was solved this that can lend a hand , would be awesome. Cheers
so picked up my 2008 type s 6 spd two weeks ago .
And ironically seem to be having the exact same issues as OP
Have a buddy who brought home his scanning tool last night hooked it up and went for a long drive to try and figure this out . all is looking great , but I've got miss fires in all 6 cylinders . It's seems as if the miss fires happen at low throttle , also when the missfires were happening the knock sensor was advance the timing multiple times . It's a complete mystery Absolutely no codes present or stored anywhere . Plugs are new , car runs great other than this very annoying issue . Anyone out there that was solved this that can lend a hand , would be awesome. Cheers
08-31-2018, 04:43 PM
#48
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08-31-2018, 05:12 PM
#49
Race Director
Hmmm, been on this forum for 15 years and don't remember ever reading that....
08-31-2018, 07:40 PM
#50
Instructor
Again I have no codes what so ever , it's got to be something simple , just need a point in the right direction.
FYI - just picked up a compression Tester di all three front cylinders and got great readings 240-250
Will hit the backs tonight or tomorrow morning .
I've heard a few people say valve ajsment but then others say it doesn't fix a thing .
08-31-2018, 07:53 PM
#51
Race Director
If you have no MIL and no codes, what led you to hook up an analyzer?
And you do know that the system intentionally runs rich at start up to heat up the cats for max efficiency? Hence, a rough idle at start up and for a short time after?
You didn't address the issue of possible over rev by the previous owner. Have you ruled that out? How?
And you do know that the system intentionally runs rich at start up to heat up the cats for max efficiency? Hence, a rough idle at start up and for a short time after?
You didn't address the issue of possible over rev by the previous owner. Have you ruled that out? How?
08-31-2018, 08:04 PM
#52
Instructor
If you have no MIL and no codes, what led you to hook up an analyzer?
And you do know that the system intentionally runs rich at start up to heat up the cats for max efficiency? Hence, a rough idle at start up and for a short time after?
You didn't address the issue of possible over rev by the previous owner. Have you ruled that out? How?
And you do know that the system intentionally runs rich at start up to heat up the cats for max efficiency? Hence, a rough idle at start up and for a short time after?
You didn't address the issue of possible over rev by the previous owner. Have you ruled that out? How?
It appears to be between idle and 1500rpm is were u really notice it .
And when it was hooked up the miss fires were occurring with lite throttle pressure under various senareos.
Over Rev? Fuel cut off prevent this does it not ?
What test would I do to determine this .
08-31-2018, 08:28 PM
#53
Race Director
Not on a missed downshift....
09-03-2018, 11:18 AM
#54
Instructor
So all here an updat on my tl
Over the weekend we took the top end apart and did a valve adjustment and yes things were out , also the intake manifold was dirty , not as bad as I've seen some but we did a good clean on it .
Put it all back together and all went well , definitely a bit of an improvement. But the missfires still there .
The next morning I was just looking under the hood and came across a loose front o2 sensor very odd but a good find , tighten it up . And unfortunately still having same problem
My brother suggested, cleaning out the egr valve ,
And I've searched the forms and the idle air control valve seems like a good thing to replace or clean ?
Over the weekend we took the top end apart and did a valve adjustment and yes things were out , also the intake manifold was dirty , not as bad as I've seen some but we did a good clean on it .
Put it all back together and all went well , definitely a bit of an improvement. But the missfires still there .
The next morning I was just looking under the hood and came across a loose front o2 sensor very odd but a good find , tighten it up . And unfortunately still having same problem
My brother suggested, cleaning out the egr valve ,
And I've searched the forms and the idle air control valve seems like a good thing to replace or clean ?
09-03-2018, 07:11 PM
#55
Instructor
So all here an updat on my tl
Over the weekend we took the top end apart and did a valve adjustment and yes things were out , also the intake manifold was dirty , not as bad as I've seen some but we did a good clean on it .
Put it all back together and all went well , definitely a bit of an improvement. But the missfires still there .
The next morning I was just looking under the hood and came across a loose front o2 sensor very odd but a good find , tighten it up . And unfortunately still having same problem
My brother suggested, cleaning out the egr valve ,
And I've searched the forms and the idle air control valve seems like a good thing to replace or clean ?
Over the weekend we took the top end apart and did a valve adjustment and yes things were out , also the intake manifold was dirty , not as bad as I've seen some but we did a good clean on it .
Put it all back together and all went well , definitely a bit of an improvement. But the missfires still there .
The next morning I was just looking under the hood and came across a loose front o2 sensor very odd but a good find , tighten it up . And unfortunately still having same problem
My brother suggested, cleaning out the egr valve ,
And I've searched the forms and the idle air control valve seems like a good thing to replace or clean ?
Still getting the same results.
Anyone think a can of sea foam is a good idea ?
09-03-2018, 07:58 PM
#56
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Seafoam is snake oil, I'm sticking with my coil diagnosis (in spite of its unpopularity).
09-03-2018, 08:29 PM
#57
Instructor
From what I read the bocsh plugs are not as good as the NGK ones correct?
Should I just suck it up and replace the coil packs ?
I just don't understand how they could cause this problem with out tripping a code ?
09-03-2018, 08:31 PM
#58
Instructor
09-03-2018, 08:45 PM
#59
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There are L-O-T-S of coil packs out there for our engines. Amazon has over a dozen coil pack options, so too does RockAuto. The above said, personally I'd stick with OEM packs (which if I am not mistaken are made by Denso). Why? My two J-Series engines now have nearly 350,000 combined miles on them, and so far, only one failed coil pack.
Last edited by horseshoez; 09-03-2018 at 08:48 PM.
09-03-2018, 08:49 PM
#60
Instructor
09-03-2018, 10:26 PM
#61
Instructor
There are L-O-T-S of coil packs out there for our engines. Amazon has over a dozen coil pack options, so too does RockAuto. The above said, personally I'd stick with OEM packs (which if I am not mistaken are made by Denso). Why? My two J-Series engines now have nearly 350,000 combined miles on them, and so far, only one failed coil pack.
Hitachi looks to be the direct oem replacement, rocket auto very limited selection in general.
Anyone else u purchase from .
I'm going to get a new set of the ngj laser iridium plugs hopefully tomorrow and will report back , here's hopping 🙈
09-03-2018, 11:19 PM
#62
Instructor
There are L-O-T-S of coil packs out there for our engines. Amazon has over a dozen coil pack options, so too does RockAuto. The above said, personally I'd stick with OEM packs (which if I am not mistaken are made by Denso). Why? My two J-Series engines now have nearly 350,000 combined miles on them, and so far, only one failed coil pack.
Forgot to mention just tonight on the way back from the grocery store the tighten fuel cap warning came on .
Is it possible the evac purge canister valve is playing a roll in the missfires?
Watched a video that showed how to replace this thus stopping the annoying warring light on dash
09-04-2018, 09:13 AM
#63
Race Director
Yes.
Remind me again how you know you are getting misfires when there are no codes to indicate so?
Re: Seafoam. It's not snake oil. It's just probably not necessary if you run Top Tier gas. It can't hurt anything, but if you've always run Top Tier gas, you likely won't see any improvement after using Seafoam.
Remind me again how you know you are getting misfires when there are no codes to indicate so?
Re: Seafoam. It's not snake oil. It's just probably not necessary if you run Top Tier gas. It can't hurt anything, but if you've always run Top Tier gas, you likely won't see any improvement after using Seafoam.
Last edited by nfnsquared; 09-04-2018 at 09:16 AM.
09-04-2018, 09:46 AM
#64
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Forgot to mention just tonight on the way back from the grocery store the tighten fuel cap warning came on .
Is it possible the evac purge canister valve is playing a roll in the missfires?
Watched a video that showed how to replace this thus stopping the annoying warring light on dash
Is it possible the evac purge canister valve is playing a roll in the missfires?
Watched a video that showed how to replace this thus stopping the annoying warring light on dash
09-04-2018, 11:14 AM
#65
Senior Moderator
09-04-2018, 02:54 PM
#67
Instructor
Yes.
Remind me again how you know you are getting misfires when there are no codes to indicate so?
Re: Seafoam. It's not snake oil. It's just probably not necessary if you run Top Tier gas. It can't hurt anything, but if you've always run Top Tier gas, you likely won't see any improvement after using Seafoam.
Remind me again how you know you are getting misfires when there are no codes to indicate so?
Re: Seafoam. It's not snake oil. It's just probably not necessary if you run Top Tier gas. It can't hurt anything, but if you've always run Top Tier gas, you likely won't see any improvement after using Seafoam.
Hooked it up to buddies scanner ( 5K I might add ) and we drove around doing various different. And we got missfires in all 6 cylinders .
0 codes stored or active
09-04-2018, 03:10 PM
#68
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when the car is at idle it's slightly off, and when u apply slight throttle it's rough at heck . I'm lost for what's going on ,
Hooked it up to buddies scanner ( 5K I might add ) and we drove around doing various different. And we got missfires in all 6 cylinders .
0 codes stored or active
Hooked it up to buddies scanner ( 5K I might add ) and we drove around doing various different. And we got missfires in all 6 cylinders .
0 codes stored or active
I don't remember, have you moved the coils around to see if you can discern a difference when one is unplugged?
09-04-2018, 03:58 PM
#69
Instructor
09-04-2018, 04:01 PM
#70
Instructor
The scanner reporting misfires on all six cylinders is exactly the issue my J30 Accord exhibited, that said the scanner, a relatively expensive unit at my local shop, was able to pull at least one code at the same time. When I reported this issue over on a Honda Accord specific forum the techs on the board immediately reported this was common for misfires on all six to be reported when only one coil was bad, and sure enough, one coil fixed it.
I don't remember, have you moved the coils around to see if you can discern a difference when one is unplugged?
I don't remember, have you moved the coils around to see if you can discern a difference when one is unplugged?
I'll try and get buddy to run his scanner and see if there is any codes
09-04-2018, 04:05 PM
#71
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09-04-2018, 04:21 PM
#73
Race Director
when the car is at idle it's slightly off, and when u apply slight throttle it's rough at heck . I'm lost for what's going on ,
Hooked it up to buddies scanner ( 5K I might add ) and we drove around doing various different. And we got missfires in all 6 cylinders .
0 codes stored or active
Hooked it up to buddies scanner ( 5K I might add ) and we drove around doing various different. And we got missfires in all 6 cylinders .
0 codes stored or active
Really having trouble understanding how a scanner can see a misfire, but no code is set in the ECU.
You drove around doing various different.... what?
Which forum was this? Link to this post??
Last edited by nfnsquared; 09-04-2018 at 04:23 PM.
09-04-2018, 07:33 PM
#75
Instructor
09-04-2018, 07:45 PM
#76
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Oy vey, Bosch plugs, I cannot tell you how many times I've seen reports of misfires caused by Bosch plugs (and not just on Honda engines). Put the new NGK plugs in and give it a try, you may be able to return the coil (or keep it as a spare).
09-04-2018, 08:19 PM
#77
Instructor
Going to do compression test Aspell
Eh the new plugs are at 42.5-43 cap , thought the gap was .44 correct
09-04-2018, 08:41 PM
#78
Race Director
don't try to gap the plugs, just put them in as is.
and gap spec is 0.039" - 0.043"
and gap spec is 0.039" - 0.043"
Last edited by nfnsquared; 09-04-2018 at 08:54 PM.
09-04-2018, 09:22 PM
#80
Instructor
Happy to announce all six of my cylinders are very healthy coming in at 245-250 psi
new plugs are in and did not change a bit .
Now I'm cycling a new coil threw the mix to see if it helps out
new plugs are in and did not change a bit .
Now I'm cycling a new coil threw the mix to see if it helps out