bigg_86

iTrader: (1)

the gears engage perfectly during normal shifts, but when i shift at over 5500rpms from 1st to 2nd the pedal sticks at about 2inches from the floor and it slowly comes up, when 2nd gear engages, it seems like it slips at first and then it grabs and i feel the pull...it is getting worse every time i race and i do quick pulls n shift over 5500rpms...

last night i raced the new hatch sti, 3rd to 5th gear pull, and i also felt that sticking from 3rd to 4th and, n from 4th to 5th and it lagged when engaging...
i have 100k miles in my car and i think its time to replace the slave cylinder. i know hondas are known for slave cylinders going bad since i had to replace it in my old 95civic n 01 integra.
also, i changed all my fluids at 75k miles, the fluids are still pretty clean and clear,

i just want to make sure that it is the slave cylinder going bad n not my clutch! it would suck if it is my clutch because i would have to drop the subframe n remove the engine

-------------------------------------------

i just got back from the dealer... they told me to check for any leakages around the master and slave cylinders, but i dont see anything besides a greasy spot built up around slave cylinder pin head, which i believe to be normal since they put grease in there from the factory...
they also said more than likely it is not my clutch going bad but either the master or slave cylinder since it seems like it is not holding high pressure during hard/quick shifts....
now, i cant tell which one is bad since there is no leakage yet, fluid level still the same as it was last time i flushed the lines. i did noticed though that the fluid was just a little darker than what it should be when i compared it to the fluid in the bottle.

how the hell am i supposed to know which cylinder is bad? there is a $100 price difference between them two so i dont wanna just go and get one and not fix the problem, especially when it is a bitch to replace the master cylinder in this car.

idk what to do next????????

bigg_86

iTrader: (1)

p/s: they also said the master cylinder used in the TLs is the same as in the s2000s and they replace a lot of those master cylinders... how can i be sure it is the master cylinder n not the slave cylinder when there is no leakage!

jpoole

Both master and slave can have internal problems with no external indications.
The slave cylinder has a type of restricting orifice that works only one way. Many have referred to it as a check valve. It sounds like maybe yours is not letting the fluid return as it should(a true check valve). There could be other reasons but to me that one sticks out the most

johnny3

Sounds like the clutch (pressure plate) to me, especially if it works correctly in normal rpm's driving.

jpoole

I can't see a bad pressure plate keeping the pedal from returning.

bigg_86

iTrader: (1)

its definitely not the pressure plate, i remember what that is like since the day i turbocharged my civic n the stage 2 PP wouldnt grab to the 6puck clutch i had.

the clutch is sticking, not slipping.

johnny3

Centrifical force at hi rpms holds the pressure plate in the released position until rpms drop off, common problem with worn-out pressure plate.

jpoole

Not to be argumentative...well maybe a little but that is NOT common. I can't imagine a clutch manufacturer would engineer a pressure plate to reduce clamp load as RPMs increase. In fact, several manufacturers engineer just the opposite.
The op stated that the pedal would not return. The fact is there is nothing to keep the pedal from returning(if somehow the pressure plate WAS stuck in the release position) because the release bearing is not connected to the pressure plate. It simply pushes against it for the release(it's free to return via the spring in the pedal assembly).

johnny3

Sorry, but it is very common, especially with the diaphram style pressure plate, it's just that average person doesn't shift normally at peak rpms so he really never knows that his pressure plate has gradually gotten weak. Let us know what the final fix is as we're all here to learn & help each other. P S, I've done lot's of racing in my 67 years.

jpoole

That sounds like you're saying it's uncommon!
Agreed. What happened to big_86 any way?:shakehead

bigg_86

iTrader: (1)

so i replaced my slave cylinder a couple weeks ago, i did the check valve delete, and it was amazing... but only for a few hard shifts... after a day the pedal started sticking again... went back to the dealer n got a new master cylinder, i should had listen at the beginning when they told me the s2ks have the same master cylinder n they go through a lot of them.... not i need to figure out how to replace the damn thing...i cant even see it!!!! im doing my research now...

p/s:the only thing that would make the pedal stick is a failure in the hydraulic system....

bigg_86

iTrader: (1)

wtf? nobody knows how to replace the master cylinder? ive been searching online n i cant seem to find anything!!!

i took some stuff apart but it seems like i have to remove the brake master cylinder to get to the clutch master cylinder....this is the most stupid design i have ever seen in a manual set up... seriously im so pissed!!! its gonna take for ever to remove both master cylinders n bleed the brakes n the clutch lines!!!!!!!!!!!

bigg_86

iTrader: (1)

so i finally got my clutch master cylinder replaced... it wasn't that hard after i found a repair manual for the car. it was kinda tricky but i did not have to remove my brake master cylinder.... now it sucks that the problem is still there... neither the slave cylinder nor the master cylinder helped my problem. im starting to believe my PP is just worn out.

my mother is going out of town for a few weeks and im thinking about taking advantage of it n replacing my clutch/PP/flywheel in my TL .... i wanna keep it all stock since i dont have any mods that require a stronger clutch kit.

what do you guys think? should i go to the dealer n buy the parts or does anyone know where i can find them for a more reasonable price?

also, is there an aftermarket light weight flywheel for this car that doesnt cost n arm an a leg like ClutchMasters does?

johnny3

p/s:the only thing that would make the pedal stick is a failure in the hydraulic system....[/quote]
Hmmm.

bigg_86

iTrader: (1)

Hmmm.[/QUOTE]

according to technician at boyland acura in cleveland ohio.

zrock87

Any luck with this yet?

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

Bigg, did you replace the clutch yet?

zrock87

replaced my slave cylinder, same problem still exists, ne one have luck with the master cylinder yet?

Turbonut

iTrader: (1)

Many years ago had the clutch pedal stay to the floor and the car didn't have a hydraulic system, it was the diaphram style PP.

Just make certain there is no crack or fracture in any of the lines/fittings.

burbank_dude

I haven't had any transmission issues with my tl since draining and filling the mt fluid with GM synchromesh friction modified but when the clutch master cylinder crapper'd out on my accord, the clutch pedal was nearly floored and oil was leaking from it.

bigg_86

iTrader: (1)

i havent replaced the clutch, i only replaced the clutch master cylinder n the slave cylinder.... problem still there, my friend told me he had the same problem in his car, took it to the dealer n told him he didnt bleed the clutch right, he said after they bled the clutch the pedal worked just fine... i havent gotten around to do it on my car yet but ill let u all know once i do it and if it fixes the problem.

I hate cars

Just to clarify, high rpms can bring out hydraulic issues.

The faster something spins, the more it resists movement. If the clutch is already engaged, high rpm has no effect on the clamping power. But if it's at high rpm and you push the clutch in, it's going to stress the hydraulics more because it will be harder to slide the pressure plate away from the flywheel.

This is more than likely a hydraulic issue.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

Had the same problem as the OP.
replaced clutch and everything is good. no more sticking pedal after a high rpm run/

DrunkenTiger213

Hey Bigg,
you think you can get me some instructions on the Clutch Master Cylinder?
I need to change mine out as well.

robocam

Hi Bigg, did you ever figure out what was wrong? Did you get your clutch replaced?

SurfingScotty

I don't mean to hijack this thread but you guys have WAY more knowledge about this stuff than I do. Maybe you can confirm or deny my issue. I think it's the clutch going bad but:

If the car is in completely in gear (foot is off the clutch pedal) and I floor the accelerator the RPM's jump quickly momentarily but the tires do not match the RPM's. Does that make sense? It's like when you're on a slick surface and you punch the gas and the tires break loose. The RPMs will jump really quickly before the traction control kicks in and brings the RPM's down (I know that is a really bad way of explaining what actually happens but you get the idea).

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

^slipping clutch!

SurfingScotty

Thanks (I think...looking at $2,000 to replace the clutch)! One more question: What brand flywheel should I use (OEM is $800).

Okay, I lied: Anyone have a link to the DIY for the check vavle delete?

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

^i bought my clutch kit from acuraoemparts.com for about $250.
a flywheel from the same source cost about $450

I had my mechanic install the clutch for about $400.
in total, I spent about $750.

if you need the flywheel, add the cost in, as I didnt need one.


I would change your clutch first, before you do the CVD.
https://acurazine.com/forums/3g-tl-performance-parts-modifications-112/113-removal-slave-cylinder-check-valve-734300/

SurfingScotty

Flywheel is listed as $609 on ^ site. I'm guessing yours is a Base? Was also quoted about $850 for labor for my Type-S. The shop I like to use said they require some "special tools" that they don't want to invest in so they wouldn't do it.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

^yes, special tools are required. its a tool to push back the flywheel.

its plastic. it cost 10 bux. my shop, bought the tool from a Honda dealer

SurfingScotty

$10?? That's ghay. The shop owner made it sound like it was some really expensive piece of equipment.

So is there a difference in the flywheel from base to Type-S?

SurfingScotty

Replaced the clutch. Flywheel, clutch kit, and pilot cost me $850 shipped (OEM). Forgot the throw-out so had to buy from my stealership. Labor and misc. parts came to $1,040 after 10% discount and bull*hit $40.00 "Misc. Shop Fee". Taken a little time to get use to how hard the sucker grabs now with the new parts and check vavle removal.