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The fun times with my noise making 6-speed transmission.
Its been awhile since I've posted or that I even drive the car but I took the car to philly back in September and on the way back, threw the car in 3rd, then all hell broke loose. I got a disgusting grinding noise, 3rd gear popped out and a weird noise coming out the transmission when the car is moving. All other gears work. Originally, with clutch in, I couldn't put it in third without hearing the grind; but after some persuasion, I could now. I still cant let go of the clutch though because of the grinding. So I lost third, I was still able to make it home 45 minutes later even with the noise. Next day, take a look around and dont see anything. The noise sounds like something is inside the tranny. It gets louder/ faster as the car goes faster. In neutral, there is no noise. Drove it up the block and I can feel my driver side wheel slipping like the axle isn't catching and a burning smell. Car has been driven 5k miles or so in the last 8 years. Added the s/c maybe 3 years ago. New clutchmasters stage 3 flywheel and clutch years ago... have some downtime tomorrow and here in the north east, it's suppose to be 55F so I'll be taking a look at it. Maybe removing the tranny completely. Any ideas/ thoughts would be appreciated as I lost the care for any mechanical work years ago.
Sounds painful...and bad. I had a previous car that one of the spider gears in the differential shattered. Lots of crunching sounds as I babied it back home. Lots of internal binding anytime the differential needed to turn. Straight line, it wasn't too bad...but any type of turn lots of binding, popping, and crunching.
Yours doesn't sound like diff since it is popping in a straight line and only 3rd seems to not work...but I am guessing crunched up some of the parts of 3rd...and that is causing other binding elsewhere.
Yes. Its supercharged.
So I got another chance to get under the car to briefly look around things today and definitely have to repair the transmission. Car lifted, still couldnt put it in 3rd. The noise was still very much there and for some reason my driver wheel "slipped" while moving the car into placed. Same thing happened last time. Dont know if it's something with the lsd but everything points to transmission. I've been out the car scene for a while. Would it be better to rebuild or replace and are there any internal upgrades to these 6speeds? Probably going to park the car all winter and begin this in the spring anyways. Oh and if anyone could give me an estimated cost to rebuild myself so I could compare to having a shop do it, that would be great. Thanks.
Yes. Its supercharged.
So I got another chance to get under the car to briefly look around things today and definitely have to repair the transmission. Car lifted, still couldnt put it in 3rd. The noise was still very much there and for some reason my driver wheel "slipped" while moving the car into placed. Same thing happened last time. Dont know if it's something with the lsd but everything points to transmission. I've been out the car scene for a while. Would it be better to rebuild or replace and are there any internal upgrades to these 6speeds? Probably going to park the car all winter and begin this in the spring anyways. Oh and if anyone could give me an estimated cost to rebuild myself so I could compare to having a shop do it, that would be great. Thanks.
My concern with rebuilding it yourself would be any potential damage to the case and other non-rebuildable components. With noise like what you're experiencing, I'd say it is a pretty odds on bet there is damage in there somewhere. I'm thinking you might be better off starting with a known good transmission from a bone yard.
I did a quick search on car-part.com for the 'Northeast' and there were a total of 23 6-spd trannys listed. Out of the 14 that actually displayed a price they ranged from $675-$1100.
As far as costs to rebuild, it all depends on what they find inside and whether or not you can still find the parts. I had my two scored and floppy carrier bearings (think excessive wheel hop) replaced on my SC'ed CLS-6 differential back in Dec2015. While he was in there, I had a new LUK clutch/pp/flywheel installed as well. I supplied the parts/fluids and got out of there paying around $1800 in labor, IIRC'ly, from a local Acura/Honda specialty shop.
Reviving this thread. Finally planning to take the Tranny off and see what i find. Worse case, buy a used transmission. Any other guesses on WTH it could be?
Reviving this thread. Finally planning to take the Tranny off and see what i find. Worse case, buy a used transmission. Any other guesses on WTH it could be?
there is a lot of info on the facebook group for the J-series that has the parts for a full rebuild. They recommend a particular year of Civic SI for gears 2-6 and 1st gear from an RSX Type-S I think. There is also an issue with high HP applications where the case wears and the only solution is a new case. A company is starting to make aluminum cases that are supposed to be stronger than the magnesium factory ones.
First off, Hello all my old Acurazine family. It's been a while. Hopefully everyone is well and COVID is behind us. I finally decided to stop just staring at the car and finally remove the tranny and disassemble it. The findings are worse than I expected. Repair would be 3rd gear set on Main shaft and 3rd gear on countershaft. The old, TSB 08-018, has a different part number from the current 3rd gear set. 3rd Gear Set (2004–08 TL, 2003 3.2CL): P/N 23444-RDE-315 VS Gear Set, M-3RD23444-PYZ-326 GEAR SET,M-3RD . Around $350 for that + $100 for Gear, Counter-Shaft Third23471-PYZ-000 GEAR, COUNTERSHAFT THIRD. The synchro's all look good with minimal wear. I have to break everything down for full inspection but is there anything else I should replace while in there? or are there upgraded parts? This is still a car I BARELY drive. it's been almost 3 years since this happened... it's be parked this whole time and probably a few years before that as well so i'm not looking for a daily. It's always been my summer "other" car. Thoughts? and thanks for whoever replies. No rush in repairs so i'll give it some time before I buy the parts to hear input. I still need to remove the pressure plate and check my flywheel and clutch. It's been 10 years since my Clutch install. https://acurazine.com/forums/3g-tl-performance-parts-modifications-112/dropping-6spd-transmission-diy-questions-updated-post-40-a-835916/
Just found this old pic. I've put less than 7K on car/clutch in 10 years... I remember hitting 103,000 Miles right 3 years ago right before this happened. Taken 1/1/12
Keep right on driving this car like a lunatic and I guarantee it won't be long before you need another transmission, another clutch/flywheel replacement, or just total it out altogether. I have 344K and STILL have the original transmission .... because I don't abuse it.
I assure you the car itself ISN'T having fun times and is more than likely very pissed off at you!
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How was this driving like a lunatic? Throwing it in 3rd gear??? Have you not heard of the 3rd gear grind (TSB 08-018) but no matter the issue. No where did I mention this was reckless driving/shifting? I replaced my clutch/flywheel as an upgrade for my S/C build. $hit happens. Luckily, this is a summer only and spare car. I have 2 other cars I can use and I work from home. I have less than 25K on this car since I bought it in 2009 and it's a '06. I have another 2016 car with less than 50K which was brand new, 11 miles when delivered. So it's great you have 344K on your original tranny. Congrats! This thread is 3 years old and I update it yearly. Its not a daily and HAS NEVER BEEN. I already had my fun with the car and the build years ago when I was still very active in the community. If anyone can learn anything from this thread, I did my service.
As an update, I took the main and counter shafts out and cleaned the housing and oil pump area. I was able to take the main shaft gears apart with no issues. Inspected everything and it's just 3rd gear and synchro that is damaged on both shafts. Overall, the job is very easy if you follow the manual. Scary because i've never done it but not hard at all. It's the first time I ever tear apart a transmission. Enjoy the pics and let me know if any one has any questions.
fun stuff, i've had a few h series and f series trans apart, but not the j series. some may say replace all the synchros while you're in there. but I say if it ain't broke dont fix it, esp with the minimal driving. either way you save a lot on labor, if you know what you're doing... good luck.
Prop for taking these apart and take pics, most transmission shop don't want to touch the MT now these day because it rarity. How did this happened in the 1st place? I mean a brief conversation with my master Tech he said the real weakness for the MT is in 2nd and 3rd gear set.
Normally the trans can handle up to 400 WHP but launching from a death stop is a problem. He said this is the reason Honda decide to put a delay check valve and dual mass to dampened drivetrain and most of the time people blew clutch and motor mounts with OEM setup.
Prop for taking these apart and take pics, most transmission shop don't want to touch the MT now these day because it rarity. How did this happened in the 1st place? I mean a brief conversation with my master Tech he said the real weakness for the MT is in 2nd and 3rd gear set.
Normally the trans can handle up to 400 WHP but launching from a death stop is a problem. He said this is the reason Honda decide to put a delay check valve and dual mass to dampened drivetrain and most of the time people blew clutch and motor mounts with OEM setup.
I shifted from 4th to 3rd. Nothing crazy and not a missed gear. There wasn't any grind during the shift. I shifted, accelerated, felt like it popped out, then it disintegrated. I drove an hour after this without 3rd gear...
I performed the clutch upgrade myself so I figured, what the hell. If you can drop the transmission, you can take it apart. It really wasn't hard at all. I had the manual to follow and will follow it to put it back together. Too buy a used transmission is over a grand and you really don't know the condition. My car just hit 100K mile so i didn't want a 150K mile tranny... I've never been the one to take the car to a shop but i can just imagine what a shop would charge for this. So far I'm still under $700 for repair of tranny and other small things. The gear set was $450, tranny fluid $40, needle bearing, power steering fluid, hondabond, urea grease, new fork cover, and some O-rings was another $70~$80 including shipping. New fender liners... I'm not replacing the bearings as they were all good. I already had new engine oil and new filter. All that is left to buy is a new battery, and brake fluid. I spent $80 on a engine support bar. I was able to take apart the main shaft without tools. For the counter shaft, I will need a press. I'll see if I can find someone with one before I buy one or take the shaft itself to be pressed...
Talking about engine oil- So the car itself hasn't been turned on in about 2.5 years... I did put gas stabilizer in the car when I first stopped driving it. I would like to add Seafoam(or a suggested product) to the gas and oil, run it for 30 minutes, then perform the oil change. I want to make sure to have a "clean" engine to be go with the repaired tranny. Any suggestions on that? Would seafoam clean the Injectors and gas lines good enough or can someone recommend another product? Same thing for the oil. For the upper cylinder heads, I would also do the Seafoam sip method. I might remove my Air intake and see what it looks like...
drain the gas tank and use fresh fuel, change the oil also and don't use any cleaners. I'd also recommend turning the engine over by hand using the crank bolt and socket a few revolutions to get oil pressure built up and some lubrication in a few areas before it's started up. Totally believe that a dead stop can cause issues with the trans. Something's got to give and it'll be the weakest part in the chain. For some its axles, others its gears.
On top of that were things purchased from Amazon or Walmart:
3QTs of ACdelco tranny fluid P/N 10-4014 - $38.82
New Dot3 Brakefluid, seafoam, B-12, Brake cleaner spray - $25.96
And because I am buying all this to get the car running again, I also bought:
New fender liners ( approx $80),
Cerakote Trim coat kit ($21.20)
Some 303 Protectant $13.08
Detailing brushes - $32.19
Will need to buy a detailing kit to wash, clay, wax, polish the car. Its been under the covers for some time and the paint is still fresh. Just dusty and could use a touch up. I dont think I need to buff and cut but I will if I have to. Will see after the first wash. i haven't washed the car in years.
Total so far is around $720 but I added a few unnecessary items to the cost.
O-rings Needle Bearing and 3rd gear set - Main Shaft Countershaft 3rd gear Fork Boot Front head oil O-ring for Supercharger Clutch Cover Bolts
Finally available to the general public, a solution to the weak 3rd and 4th gear on the J Series FWD transmission. Over the years we have refined the material selection and the heat treatment. We are currently on batch 5 which we have been refining over the last 4 season. This allows us to have a harder surface for wear resistance and a softer core for shock loading. The gears have been tested on several Pirelli World Challenge cars and 900 WHP Brent Thumans drag car. These will require a speedo recalibration due to the wheel speed is read off one of these gears.
Just got an email that the needle bearing is on backorder and not orderable. "Part numbers 91109-PYZ-003 are currently on backorder. These items are not available for order at this time and have been cancelled from the order. We have refunded 15.08 to your paypal. The remainder of your order is currently on order with American Honda. The items are currently in transit to us. You will receive a tracking number when the items are ready for carrier pick up from my dealership. Thank you."
I have to doublecheck mine. I know it is discolored and it was only $15. That's why I was replacing it. I will check its operation. I am worried if it expanded or damaged due to the heat as it was discolored...
I'm just getting back into town and getting caught up in messages, inquiries. I haven't had a chance to fully read over this thread, but do you still need any input /assistance from me?
I'm just getting back into town and getting caught up in messages, inquiries. I haven't had a chance to fully read over this thread, but do you still need any input /assistance from me?
Any Tips for rebuild would be great. As for parts, I bought everything from Honda/Acura already. Only thing missing is 3rd gear needle bearing as it is on backorder.. If anything changes on parts' i'll let you know.
Thank you.
I've got my J-series / FK8 transmission rebuild / remanufacturing process so optimized that I can rebuild these things with a profit for about the same price (if not cheaper) than you are able to buy parts from the dealership with the discount.
I will help you out as best as I can. I've got several of those needle bearings. You might not need it though.
The RV6 straight cut gears for J-series FWD are the same as the gears that Team HMA (Honda Motorsports Alabama) had MFactory make for their modified Honda Odyssey. MFactory wanted to make a superior setup, but Honda specifically wanted the ratios to be as similar to OEM. They wanted gears that could handle the stress of road racing their Honda Odyssey.
This is confirmed with the part numbers on the labels.
3rd gear: 36/21 = 1.714286
4th gear: 35/28 = 1.250000
The OD of the mainshaft 3rd gear is small, and this geometrical constraint prevents a redesign of a better ratio gear that also has larger, thicker teeth. Switching to the larger diameter mainshaft, which is discussed in my thread here allows for more flexibility. However this requires a final drive change because the larger diameter mainshaft ends up having lower ratios for 1-6 gears.
J-series FWD on left
AWD TL / FK8 / Accord Sport on right.
J-series FWD trans has higher ratio 1-6, but lower ratio final drive.
AWD TL / Accord Sport 2.0T gearing is the opposite, in that they have lower ratio 1-6, but higher ratio final drives.
Because of all the stuff that would need to be changed in order to run my Frankenstein setup or FK8 / Accord Sport 2.0T grade internals, these RV6 straight cut gears are a good, cost effective upgrade for the J-series FWD trans that doesn't require having to change out EVERYTHING.
(While one doesn't actually have to change out their 3.286 final drive to run the larger mainshaft gears, the 3.286 gearing would be so long that most people wouldn't want to run it. The only exception would be for applications like the custom geared trans that I've built for customers that are doing J-series in the back of classic minis (~20" overall tire diameter).
Parts get here today. Rainy week so let's see when I can complete the install. Still have to remove the clutch to inspect it.
I did take apart the countershft with a modified Table Bench press I bought from Harbor freight. Had to extend the opening at the bottom to fit the almost 6in' 1st gear. Used Aluminum L bar for 2nd and 3rd gear. 4/5/6 was done with the press plates that came with it. Noticed the needles bearings were missing 1 pin on each. Does any one know if this is correct? i believe it has to be as one is closed between 1st and 2nd gear and I didn't find it anywhere.
Noticed the needles bearings were missing 1 pin on each. Does any one know if this is correct?
Brand new, sealed needle bearings are this way. The slot is actually more narrow than the other ones are and you cannot fit one of the rollers in that slot.
Sorry for the real late update. Been on Vacation for a few weeks. Finally got around to rebuilding the Transmission. Still need to install it. Worked through the gears and everything spins freely. Went through every single piece to make sure all the metal debris I can get was removed. Some were between gears, in the final gear drive, in the oil sump area... Rebuild wasn't difficult but did take some time. Triple checked everything prior to sealing it back up. Install hopefully this week. Enjoy the Pics though not to many during the build since my hands were dirty with MTF. Let me know if anyone has any questions.
Transmission is back on. Subframe/Front suspension/Wheels, supercharger, oil change, brake fluid change, slave cylinder fluid change, Power steering fluid, Tranny Fluid are all that are left. Hopefully it doesn't rain tomorrow... Pics to follow and hopefully a video...
11-25-2018, 02:39 AM
The fun times with my noise making 6-speed transmission.
