jgrotoe

2007 TL
I purchased my TL this past April. It is a certified used vehicle and had about 63,000 miles. I now have 76,000 miles and when my oil was changed last week, I was told I have engine sludge. I took a look at the dip stick and saw it for myself (small dark chunks).

What the heck do I do about the sludge?! The mechanic at the dealership said to go to a place (the dealership doesnt carry the equipment) and get the engine pressure washed out. ANY SUGGESTIONS??

ez12a

hmm i thought dealers always advised against getting any part of the engine or transmission flushed. But is this the first time you got your oil changed since you bought it? 13k miles is a very long time between oil changes. Conventional oil (which is prob what the dealer sold it with) wouldnt stand a chance.

Just how bad is it? Maybe look into getting the Valve covers removed (maybe drop the oil pan too), the excess chunks out and do a round of oil changes every 1k miles or something.

I hate cars

WTF??? Engine sludge is an internal thing, a pressure washer will have zero effect other than breaking the seal on your weather-pack connectors and causing electrical problems. Chances are they're trying to get your money.

Open the oil fill hole, look inside at the top of the head and as much of the valvetrain as you can see. This is a common place for sludge to build up. If you see nothing here, there's a 95% chance there's absolutely nothing to worry about.

Modern oils do not sludge unless the change interval is severely overrun like 20,000 miles and you do it more than a few times.

Unless you have a leaking head gasket letting water into the oil or a serious fuel injection problem or the car was seriously abused in it's previous life, you have no sludge.

If by some crazy chance you actually do have sludge, use AutoRx in the oil. Do not use seafoam or any of the other harsh solvents. You need a gentle ester based cleaner that will slowly dissolve sludge and not dislodge it in large chunks that will plug the pickup screen up.

There's no such thing as a flush for the engine, only for the transmission and even that is not advised. Do not let them put a solvent in there. Run AutoRx and let it dissolve the sludge (if there is sludge) over the course of 5,000 miles.
Here's mine at around 100,000 miles:



Looks like the day I bought it with 8 miles on it. I highly suggest you change your own oil and see what comes out. They probably managed to screw it up or even threw something in the oil to scare you.

jgrotoe

Actually this is the second oil change I've had since owning the car since April. As far as how bad it is, I'm not sure. When I pull the dipstick out, I see some small dark chunks along with the oil (which is not very dark). I found it odd the dealer suggested finding some place (they don't do it there) to "flush" the engine out.

jgrotoe

Thanks for the insight! The thing is, the dealer said they cant perform the "flush" service. So I'm unsure as to why they would suggest this. He said places like Midas, CarX, etc usually perform the service and they take the engine and use a special tool that sprays hot water and solvent to wash it out.
I will look into the oil fill hole and check that out first. As far as the AutoRX is that something you have used? What kind of results have you seen? If i use the AutoRX, do I get the oil changed after 5k miles?

Thanks!

Bearcat94

Wait. The dealer is telling you your engine is has sludge?

Shouldn't your first question be: "Why did you sell me a Certified Pre-Owned with a sludge filled engine?"

What is their answer to that question?

I hate cars

You absolutely can not flush an engine. Its impossible. Washing the outside to clean the inside is asinine. Hot water and solvent INSIDE the engine is a sure way to destroy it. If they're talking about a decarbonization through the intake, its unnecessary and it has nothing to do with finding flakes in the oil.

Bearcat is right. Sludge happens over time and theres absolutely no way it could go from no sludge to sludge in the time you've had it.

Look through the fill hole and go from there.

jgrotoe

Yeah, that is something I am also going to pursue. I have been wondering the same damn thing. I am wondering how to handle this as I'm sure the dealership won't be cooperative. Any advice/experience out there? I also have the extended warranty.

Bearcat94

Was your purchase from an Acura Dealer; an Acura Certified Pre-Owned car?

If so, check this PDF link: http://www.acura.com/content/pdf/CPO_150pt.pdf

In particular Item #61 - "Engine condition (visual verification of oil change maintenance)"

jgrotoe

Yes, it was from an Acura dealer and I still have the paperwork with that exact box checked off as fine. To give you some idea, the bluetooth did not work either when I picked the car up. It seems like they screwed up. I have never dealt with a situation like this so I am going to call and complain but what should I ask for? New engine?

SpiderX1016

I just don't see the dealer covering it. It's not there fault someone didn't change the oil.

I would use a Dino Oil and a good filter with 3k intervals. My preference would be Pennzoil with a Purolator filter. It won't go away overnight.

Bearcat94

Perhaps. But it IS their fault that they certified it and checked off the visual inspection of the engine to confirm acceptable oil changes AND gave the customer the paperwork saying they did so.

IOW - it IS their fault they sold a car in that condition while claiming it was NOT in that condition.



First, do what IHC says: check for yourself. If there is no evidence of significant build up, do his AutoRx suggestion and move on.

If there is visual evidence of build-up, I'd tell the dealer you want them to put the car in the condition that they Certified or buy it back.

If they won't/can't, take it up with Acura Corporate, and possibly a Lemon Law attorney or the State Attorney Generals Office of Consumer Protection/Fraud. IMHO, if they sold you a car as Certified, provided the Certification paperwork and that car was, in fact, not properly inspected, AND they refuse to remedy the situation, that is fraud.

If it goes that far, make sure you've got your maint receipts for the time you've owned it and that your maint was with commercially acceptable products.

I hate cars

They checked off the box saying it was ok in that department so now its their problem. Its well known Acura does nothing to actually check the items on the list.

To the OP, I would demand a new engine or that they take they buy the car back. I don't expect that to happen but it will get their attention.

swoleCL

Run a high end synthetic oil thru it, penzoil platinum or ILSAC GF-5 and it should eventually remove it.

SpiderX1016

I see. Well, I would take it to the higher ups. Like the district manager or call Acura.

Have you spoke with the Service Manager?

Fry Stl

i've seen some "sludge" in engines...from condensation. could be the climate you're in, oil cap could not have been tightened down all the way, etc. nothing that would warrant them to buy you an engine 12,000 miles after you bought it. if it really bothers you, buy about 12 quarts of oil and 3 oil filters. drain the oil, put new oil and filter on start the vehicle and get it up to temp, then drain it and do it again.

nj2pa2nc

when you had the 1st oil change did they tell you the car had sludge.

Majofo

I hate cars

Pennzoil Platinum is a grp III oil, not a synthetic. The GF-5 spec focuses on fuel economy, catalyst life (phosphorus levels), and to a much smaller degree oxidation resistance and sludge buildup. It won't remove sludge that's already there and for several other reasons I would not use it in anything I own.

For sludge removal, you need a non solvent cleaner that works slowly over time. You can change the oil as many times as you want with regular oil and it's not going to make a difference in sludge buildup. Removing it too quickly is much worse than letting it sit there and doing nothing about it.

However, I'm pretty sure there's no sludge in this case.

jgrotoe

No, they did not mention anything about sludge after the first oil change. The service guy alluded to the only reason they only caught it was when they took the dipstick out to double check the oil levels.

I have an appointment at the dealership where I bought the car so they can take a look at it. They are already setting it up for it's not a big deal, "it must not be that bad, why did the other dealer let you drive it away".

Thanks!

jgrotoe

Run AutoRx and let it dissolve the sludge (if there is sludge)

If there is sludge, when I change the oil I should see the sludge come out, correct? Also, When I took a look today, I saw small black chunks but it did not look like the oil is caked all over the place.

jgrotoe

Well, they used seafoam (without my permission). What does that means for my engine performance? What would you suggest from here?